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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

SubjectAuthor
* Hard science question: How do G forces work???David Brown
+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
|+- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Quadibloc
|+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???peterwezeman@hotmail.com
||+- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Quadibloc
||`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Hamish Laws
|| +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
|| |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???peterwezeman@hotmail.com
|| | +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dimensional Traveler
|| | |`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???peterwezeman@hotmail.com
|| | `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Ninapenda Jibini
|| `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Gary R. Schmidt
|`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???David Brown
| +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???James Nicoll
| |+- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Wolffan
| |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???David Johnston
| | `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Quadibloc
| +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Alan
| +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???peterwezeman@hotmail.com
| |+- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Quadibloc
| |+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???rkshullat
| ||`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
| || |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Wolffan
| || | +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Hamish Laws
| || | |+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Quadibloc
| || | ||`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | || `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Quadibloc
| || | ||  `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | | `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Hamish Laws
| || | +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | | `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Hamish Laws
| || | |  `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |   `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Thomas Koenig
| || | |    +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    |+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |    ||`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Thomas Koenig
| || | |    || +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    || |`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |    || `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |    ||  `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||   +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |    ||   |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||   | `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |    ||   `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Thomas Koenig
| || | |    ||    +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
| || | |    ||    `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||     +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pete...@gmail.com
| || | |    ||     |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dimensional Traveler
| || | |    ||     | +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||     | +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Kevrob
| || | |    ||     | |`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||     | +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Thomas Koenig
| || | |    ||     | |+- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Ninapenda Jibini
| || | |    ||     | |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dimensional Traveler
| || | |    ||     | | `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???David Brown
| || | |    ||     | |  `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Ninapenda Jibini
| || | |    ||     | |   `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???David Brown
| || | |    ||     | |    +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
| || | |    ||     | |    `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||     | `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| || | |    ||     `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| || | |    ||      +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||      |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| || | |    ||      | `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||      `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pete...@gmail.com
| || | |    ||       +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||       | +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | |+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pete...@gmail.com
| || | |    ||       | ||+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||       | |||`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||+- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
| || | |    ||       | ||+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Titus G
| || | |    ||       | |||`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pete...@gmail.com
| || | |    ||       | ||+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | |||`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||       | ||| `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pete...@gmail.com
| || | |    ||       | |||  `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||       | ||`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| || | |    ||       | || `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||  `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
| || | |    ||       | ||   +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||       | ||   |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||   | `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||       | ||   |  +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
| || | |    ||       | ||   |  `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||   |   `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Scott Lurndal
| || | |    ||       | ||   |    `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||   `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pete...@gmail.com
| || | |    ||       | ||    +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Titus G
| || | |    ||       | ||    +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
| || | |    ||       | ||    +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||    |+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |    ||       | ||    ||`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||    |+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Michael F. Stemper
| || | |    ||       | ||    ||`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Paul S Person
| || | |    ||       | ||    |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pete...@gmail.com
| || | |    ||       | ||    `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???rkshullat
| || | |    ||       | |`* Let's Keep the Dimensions Straight (was Re: Hard science question: How do G forcRobert Woodward
| || | |    ||       | `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| || | |    ||       `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| || | |    |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Thomas Koenig
| || | |    +- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire
| || | |    `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| || | `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Quadibloc
| || +* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???rkshullat
| || `* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Dorothy J Heydt
| |`* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???William Hyde
| `- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Wolffan
+- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Alan
+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Wolffan
+* Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???pyotr filipivich
`- Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???Lynn McGuire

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Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<859vnhtfdigl8a5euub3mj2qb9559r6rlt@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=82286&group=rec.arts.sf.written#82286

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:07:33 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:07 UTC

On Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:55:46 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 11/23/2022 8:34 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:51:03 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 22:36:39 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>>> <tko...@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> schrieb:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:21:15 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>>>>> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/19/2022 9:50 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>>>> On 11/15/2022 11:11 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2022 07:09:32 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>>>>>>>>> <tko...@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> schrieb:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2022 5:32 AM, Hamish Laws wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:50:28 AM UTC+11, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2022 10:44 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 14:35:30 -0600, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snippo discussion of basic physics terminology>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am in the beginning of converting my 5,000+ subroutines / 700,000+
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines of F77 code to C++. I have converted 23,000 lines so far. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fortran character strings to C strings or C++ STL strings are very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brave man!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've got to have a 64 bit version of my calculation engine and soon. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> customers are clamoring for it with the new 64 bit version of Excel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pity there's not a 64 bit version of the Fortran
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My experience with the 64 bit Fortran compilers with my 700,000+ lines
>>>>>>>>>>> of my old F77 code and my 50,000+ lines of C++ code is not good. Others
>>>>>>>>>>> may have a better experience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is a 64-bit Fortran compiler?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Presumably, it would be one that generates 64-bit code, using features
>>>>>>>>> that would not work on a 32-bit computer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Such as native 64-bit multiplcation. Which a 32-bit compiler can only
>>>>>>>>> emulate, even if running on 64-bit hardware.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Typical compilers have a four-byte integer, but it is possible to
>>>>>>>>>> select different kinds of integer via the selected_int_kind
>>>>>>>>>> intrinsic, telling the compiler how many digits you need.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would expect a 64-bit C compiler to have an 8-byte 'int', since
>>>>>>>>> 'int' is intended to be the largest value the hardware can handle as a
>>>>>>>>> unit. But perhaps that ended with 32-bit compilers, and their 64-bit
>>>>>>>>> brethren are doing something different.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For REAL and DOUBLE PRECISION, those are (on relevant architectures
>>>>>>>>>> today) 32 and 64 bit IEEE floats, respectively.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is unlikely to change. But floats are not always precise enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no need to know things like the length of a pointer in
>>>>>>>>>> Fortran (like some people do in C).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Changing my Fortran code to double precision for all floating point
>>>>>>>> twenty+ years ago solved a whole lot of problems and caused new ones.
>>>>>>>> We developed our software on a Univac 1108, a 36 bit machine, starting
>>>>>>>> back in 1965. 36 bits is 1 ppm (part per million) (6 digits of
>>>>>>>> precision) after roundoff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The UNIVYC 1108 had a 27-bit mantissa in its floating point format,
>>>>>>> or around 7.5e-9 as epsilon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When we ported to the IBM 370, we lost
>>>>>>>> precision down to 32 bits. 32 bits is about 1.5 ppm (5.5 digits) after
>>>>>>>> roundoff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because IBM decided to save a few gates, they used hexadecimal
>>>>>>> float in the /360. Read "Hacker's Delight" for a scathing comment
>>>>>>> by an IBM employee on that...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 64 bits is a wonderful 12 to 14 digits of precision after
>>>>>>>> roundoff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The smallest number epsilon so that 1+epsilon > 1 in IEEE
>>>>>>> float is around 2.2e-16, but of course you cannot reliably depend
>>>>>>> on that for numerical calculations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roundoff sucks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is why God gave us Integers.
>>>>
>>>> So you have to keep track of the scales yourselves?
>>> That is a downside if you are using computer integers to represent
>>> fixed-point values.
>>>
>>> OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>>> for error, no excuses.
>>
>> You're probably safe. Even back in the late 80s, when I worked at a major
>> Wall Street bank, math involving money was done with 96 bit integers,
>> using pennies as the unit.
>>
>Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an underpaid
>programmer for some huge corporation and started transferring all those
>fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to his own
>account. The big bosses realized he was the one responsible when a week
>after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D

Sounds a lot like /Superman III/. Which I liked so much less than
/Superman II/ that I didn't like it at all.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<d551fc48-ce99-43d2-80b0-b216617dab5bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: kev...@my-deja.com (Kevrob)
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 by: Kevrob - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:28 UTC

On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 1:55:47 AM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 11/23/2022 8:34 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

> > You're probably safe. Even back in the late 80s, when I worked at a major
> > Wall Street bank, math involving money was done with 96 bit integers,
> > using pennies as the unit.
> >
> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an underpaid
> programmer for some huge corporation and started transferring all those
> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to his own
> account. The big bosses realized he was the one responsible when a week
> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D
> --

SUPERMAN III.
Nowhere near as bad as S IV, however.
__
Kevin R

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<tloagq$3rood$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>

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From: tkoe...@netcologne.de (Thomas Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:43:54 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Thomas Koenig - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:43 UTC

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> schrieb:

> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an underpaid
> programmer for some huge corporation and started transferring all those
> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to his own
> account. The big bosses realized he was the one responsible when a week
> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D

Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real occurrence,
but never could check it. What film was it?

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<XnsAF596577D1728taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
References: <tkmbmk$uc0u$3@dont-email.me> <h5jvmhlkni3gmbqo8esd4a157o1o1ogg0q@4ax.com> <tkote0$2fs$3@gioia.aioe.org> <97a83217-411f-4a68-a98b-ee8ae1b0759an@googlegroups.com> <tkrjj8$832$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tkvdvc$3blge$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> <snh7nh5t4hqrsqekgob0usnebqs1252ijt@4ax.com> <tl0prb$24ctu$3@dont-email.me> <tlau0q$3j046$3@newsreader4.netcologne.de> <tlc9vs$1uq6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <gnnknhh48ob1mv2al5h93mi505o05i3e7h@4ax.com> <tljitn$3om8a$4@newsreader4.netcologne.de> <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio2g2vq9m0u9em89sqe@4ax.com> <28134177-c934-4b59-8806-cfb1c4e9082en@googlegroups.com> <tln4hf$juc5$2@dont-email.me> <tloagq$3rood$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:58 UTC

Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote in
news:tloagq$3rood$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de:

> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> schrieb:
>
>> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an
>> underpaid programmer for some huge corporation and started
>> transferring all those fractions of a penny dropped from
>> paycheck withholdings to his own account. The big bosses
>> realized he was the one responsible when a week after starting
>> it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D
>
> Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real
> occurrence, but never could check it. What film was it?
>
Superman III. The technique is called "salami slicing," and it
predates the movie. It is, however, generally considered an urban
legend. It may have happened at some point, but no definitive cases
can be cited (though similar crimes can be found, like Michael
Largent' fraud against E-Trade). It is also generally considerd that,
if one were to try it any time in the last several decades, one would
be caught by routine auditing very quickly.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<tloeok$n880$2@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=82296&group=rec.arts.sf.written#82296

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 10:56:22 -0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 18:56 UTC

On 11/24/2022 9:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> schrieb:
>
>> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an underpaid
>> programmer for some huge corporation and started transferring all those
>> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to his own
>> account. The big bosses realized he was the one responsible when a week
>> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D
>
> Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real occurrence,
> but never could check it. What film was it?

Others have identified it as 'Superman III'. (I couldn't remember what
movie it was myself.)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<3dc75cff-5230-4f88-a127-6de414e0f30fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: davidnbr...@gmail.com (David Brown)
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 by: David Brown - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 20:34 UTC

On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 11:56:24 AM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 11/24/2022 9:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> schrieb:
> >
> >> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an underpaid
> >> programmer for some huge corporation and started transferring all those
> >> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to his own
> >> account. The big bosses realized he was the one responsible when a week
> >> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D
> >
> > Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real occurrence,
> > but never could check it. What film was it?
> Others have identified it as 'Superman III'. (I couldn't remember what
> movie it was myself.)
> --
> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
> dirty old man.
I thought that, but my first suspicion was that there had been an earlier film they were referencing. I believe I have commented here I'm one of many people who consider Superman 3 the worst of the Christopher Reeve movies, which with Superman IV in play is really going out on a limb.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<XnsAF599E515FA80taustincagmailcom@85.12.62.232>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Ninapenda Jibini)
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 23:33:50 GMT
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 by: Ninapenda Jibini - Thu, 24 Nov 2022 23:33 UTC

David Brown <davidnbrown80@gmail.com> wrote in
news:3dc75cff-5230-4f88-a127-6de414e0f30fn@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 11:56:24 AM UTC-7, Dimensional
> Traveler wrote:
>> On 11/24/2022 9:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> schrieb:
>> >
>> >> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an
>> >> underpaid programmer for some huge corporation and started
>> >> transferring all thos
> e
>> >> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to
>> >> his own account. The big bosses realized he was the one
>> >> responsible when a wee
> k
>> >> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar.
>> >> :D
>> >
>> > Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real
>> > occurrence, but never could check it. What film was it?
>> Others have identified it as 'Superman III'. (I couldn't
>> remember what movie it was myself.)
>> --
>> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be
>> a cranky
>
>> dirty old man.
> I thought that, but my first suspicion was that there had been
> an earlier film they were referencing. I believe I have
> commented here I'm one of many people who consider Superman 3
> the worst of the Christopher Reeve movies, which with Superman
> IV in play is really going out on a limb.
>
The Christopher Reeve Superman franchise defined the pre-Marvel
formula for superhero movies: The first one is great, the second
one is OK, the third one is bad, and the fourth one is so bad it
kills the franchise for at least a decade.

I'm still amazed that Marvel has broken out of that mold.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<b807ad26-4c68-4599-bda5-cc1348a6f1d8n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: davidnbr...@gmail.com (David Brown)
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 by: David Brown - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 06:12 UTC

On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 4:33:54 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> David Brown <davidn...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:3dc75cff-5230-4f88...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 11:56:24 AM UTC-7, Dimensional
> > Traveler wrote:
> >> On 11/24/2022 9:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> >> > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> schrieb:
> >> >
> >> >> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an
> >> >> underpaid programmer for some huge corporation and started
> >> >> transferring all thos
> > e
> >> >> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to
> >> >> his own account. The big bosses realized he was the one
> >> >> responsible when a wee
> > k
> >> >> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar.
> >> >> :D
> >> >
> >> > Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real
> >> > occurrence, but never could check it. What film was it?
> >> Others have identified it as 'Superman III'. (I couldn't
> >> remember what movie it was myself.)
> >> --
> >> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be
> >> a cranky
> >
> >> dirty old man.
> > I thought that, but my first suspicion was that there had been
> > an earlier film they were referencing. I believe I have
> > commented here I'm one of many people who consider Superman 3
> > the worst of the Christopher Reeve movies, which with Superman
> > IV in play is really going out on a limb.
> >
> The Christopher Reeve Superman franchise defined the pre-Marvel
> formula for superhero movies: The first one is great, the second
> one is OK, the third one is bad, and the fourth one is so bad it
> kills the franchise for at least a decade.
>
> I'm still amazed that Marvel has broken out of that mold.
> --
> Terry Austin
>
> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
> Lynn:
> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>
>
> "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
> -- David Bilek
>
> Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
The frustrating thing is that Superman IV was the one that was ambitious enough to take the superhero genre and concept in new directions. And it did it without simply piling on "grimdark" for its own sake. On a technical level, it's every bit as bad as people say, but they were trying to do something different. By comparison, 3 was an irritating self parody that still managed to be as tame as vanilla, and it's over 2 damn hours. I think the only reason anyone remembers it well is the red kryptonite subplot.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<a2s1ohlkfc10ivooc3r6fbqj5fj79981s0@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 08:44:45 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 16:44 UTC

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:28:48 -0800 (PST), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 1:55:47 AM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 11/23/2022 8:34 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> > You're probably safe. Even back in the late 80s, when I worked at a major
>> > Wall Street bank, math involving money was done with 96 bit integers,
>> > using pennies as the unit.
>> >
>> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an underpaid
>> programmer for some huge corporation and started transferring all those
>> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to his own
>> account. The big bosses realized he was the one responsible when a week
>> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D
>> --
>
>SUPERMAN III.
>Nowhere near as bad as S IV, however.

Actually, I thought it was an improvement. Despite being a
Golan-Globus production, not exactly a sign of high production values.

It does, after all, show the origin of a supervillain. And where else
do we see the Man of Steel sobbing himself to sleep while clutching
his Green Crystal?

But not good enough that I ever wanted to see it again.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<XnsAF5A65AD8595Btaustingmail@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Fri, 25 Nov 2022 16:59 UTC

David Brown <davidnbrown80@gmail.com> wrote in
news:b807ad26-4c68-4599-bda5-cc1348a6f1d8n@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 4:33:54 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>> David Brown <davidn...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:3dc75cff-5230-4f88...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 11:56:24 AM UTC-7,
>> > Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> >> On 11/24/2022 9:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> >> > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> schrieb:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an
>> >> >> underpaid programmer for some huge corporation and
>> >> >> started transferring all thos
>> > e
>> >> >> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings
>> >> >> to his own account. The big bosses realized he was the
>> >> >> one responsible when a wee
>> > k
>> >> >> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks
>> >> >> supercar.
>> >> >> :D
>> >> >
>> >> > Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real
>> >> > occurrence, but never could check it. What film was it?
>> >> Others have identified it as 'Superman III'. (I couldn't
>> >> remember what movie it was myself.)
>> >> --
>> >> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to
>> >> be a cranky
>> >
>> >> dirty old man.
>> > I thought that, but my first suspicion was that there had
>> > been an earlier film they were referencing. I believe I have
>> > commented here I'm one of many people who consider Superman 3
>> > the worst of the Christopher Reeve movies, which with
>> > Superman IV in play is really going out on a limb.
>> >
>> The Christopher Reeve Superman franchise defined the pre-Marvel
>> formula for superhero movies: The first one is great, the
>> second one is OK, the third one is bad, and the fourth one is
>> so bad it kills the franchise for at least a decade.
>>
>> I'm still amazed that Marvel has broken out of that mold.
>> --
>> Terry Austin
>>
>> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider
>> than Lynn:
>> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>>
>>
>> "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
>> -- David Bilek
>>
>> Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
> The frustrating thing is that Superman IV was the one that was
> ambitious enough to take the superhero genre and concept in new
> directions. And it did it without simply piling on "grimdark"
> for its own sake. On a technical level, it's every bit as bad as
> people say, but they were trying to do something different. By
> comparison, 3 was an irritating self parody that still managed
> to be as tame as vanilla, and it's over 2 damn hours. I think
> the only reason anyone remembers it well is the red kryptonite
> subplot.
>
Perhaps the audience wasn't interested in "new directions." Comic
books (especially then) are one of the more formula driven genres.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<rLxrJJ.1n7A@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Message-ID: <rLxrJJ.1n7A@kithrup.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 03:40:31 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 03:40 UTC

In article <91f86833-eb7e-4664-aca6-421ddfdbe5e6n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 11:32:36 PM UTC-7, Hal Heydt wrote:
>
>> The FORTRAN IID compiler on the IBM 1620 had a compiler directive
>> called the "F and K statement" that allowed on to specify to the
>> length in digits for fixed point ("K") variables, minimum 2, and
>> floating point ("F") variables, minimum 4, with 2 for the
>> exponent and the rest for the mantissa. I don't recall, off
>> hand, the maximum permitted values.
>
>Having collected a number of manuals from Bitsavers, I found the
>manual for 1620 Fortran II, and it described the Source Program Control
>Card to match your description:
>
>*26104
>
>would mean that the floating-point precision was 26 digits, the fixed point
>precision was 10 digits (the maximums for each) and the 4 at the end
>indicated the object code was to be generated to run on a machine with
>40,000 core storage locations (of two decimal digits each, IIRC).

(Hal Heydt)
I don't think that is for the same compiler. The 1620 I learned
on had a disk drive cobbled on to it, so both assmebler and the
FORTRAN compiler were designated as "IID". It did have 80K digits
of memory, though, which was unusual as the basic machine was 20K
and the maximum was 100K (the 1620 used 5-digit addresses).

Found a reference to the *FANDKffkk statement. It's on page 120
at
https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/1620/monitor/A26-5739-4_IBM_1620_Monitor_I_System_Reference_Manual_1965.pdf

Which means that that particular manual is slightly newer than
wahtever was in use when I learned FORTRAN IID.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 08:42:17 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:42 UTC

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:12:54 -0800 (PST), David Brown
<davidnbrown80@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 4:33:54 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> David Brown <davidn...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:3dc75cff-5230-4f88...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 11:56:24 AM UTC-7, Dimensional
>> > Traveler wrote:
>> >> On 11/24/2022 9:43 AM, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> >> > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> schrieb:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an
>> >> >> underpaid programmer for some huge corporation and started
>> >> >> transferring all thos
>> > e
>> >> >> fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to
>> >> >> his own account. The big bosses realized he was the one
>> >> >> responsible when a wee
>> > k
>> >> >> after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar.
>> >> >> :D
>> >> >
>> >> > Ah, that was a movie? I had heard it reported as a real
>> >> > occurrence, but never could check it. What film was it?
>> >> Others have identified it as 'Superman III'. (I couldn't
>> >> remember what movie it was myself.)
>> >> --
>> >> I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be
>> >> a cranky
>> >
>> >> dirty old man.
>> > I thought that, but my first suspicion was that there had been
>> > an earlier film they were referencing. I believe I have
>> > commented here I'm one of many people who consider Superman 3
>> > the worst of the Christopher Reeve movies, which with Superman
>> > IV in play is really going out on a limb.
>> >
>> The Christopher Reeve Superman franchise defined the pre-Marvel
>> formula for superhero movies: The first one is great, the second
>> one is OK, the third one is bad, and the fourth one is so bad it
>> kills the franchise for at least a decade.
>>
>> I'm still amazed that Marvel has broken out of that mold.
>> --
>> Terry Austin
>>
>> Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
>> Lynn:
>> https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
>>
>>
>> "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
>> -- David Bilek
>>
>> Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
>The frustrating thing is that Superman IV was the one that was ambitious enough to take the superhero genre and concept in new directions. And it did it without simply piling on "grimdark" for its own sake. On a technical level, it's every bit as bad as people say, but they were trying to do something different. By comparison, 3 was an irritating self parody that still managed to be as tame as vanilla, and it's over 2 damn hours. I think the only reason anyone remembers it well is the red kryptonite subplot.

People remember it? Oh, right, it's a Richard Pryor movie.

But thanks for reminding me of the red kryptonite sub-plot. I had
forgotten all about it.

And I plan on keeping it that way.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<rM34FB.uKF@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Message-ID: <rM34FB.uKF@kithrup.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 01:06:47 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 01:06 UTC

In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio2g2vq9m0u9em89sqe@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>for error, no excuses.

(Hal Heydt)
And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.

Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
exist. The format is COMP-2.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 01:30 UTC

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio2g2vq9m0u9em89sqe@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>>for error, no excuses.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
>of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
>
>Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
>are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
>exist. The format is COMP-2.

COMP-2 is specific to IBM COBOL IIRC. Burroughs (medium systems)
COBOL ignore COMP anyway, since all the hardware supported was
BCD (4-bit digits, up to PIC 9(100)).

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 04:20 UTC

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 8:22:43 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
> >for error, no excuses.
> (Hal Heydt)
> And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
> of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
>
> Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
> are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
> exist. The format is COMP-2.

When I was working at a major bank, our solution was to record dollar
sums as the integer number of pennies.

Pt

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<rM3HDG.1GDI@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Message-ID: <rM3HDG.1GDI@kithrup.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 05:46:28 GMT
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 05:46 UTC

In article <tln4hf$juc5$2@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>Reminds me of a Richard Pryor movie where he played an underpaid
>programmer for some huge corporation and started transferring all those
>fractions of a penny dropped from paycheck withholdings to his own
>account. The big bosses realized he was the one responsible when a week
>after starting it he drove to work in a megabucks supercar. :D

(Hal Heydt)
It happened, but it wasn't that dramatic. A programmer at a bank
added the truncated fractions to his own account. That had the
advantage that the "books balanced". He wasn't caught until
after he quit and somebody eventually noticed that he was
withdrawing money without ever putting anything into the account.

The bank went after him for theft. The curts ruled that the
truncated fractions of cents were "abandoned" by the bank and his
taking them was like picking up pennies on the street.

Needless to say, the bank had the program changed to stop that
from continuing.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<hcecoh905u43jpkan2l7ef80u79vrs47gj@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 08:59:03 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 16:59 UTC

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 20:20:19 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 8:22:43 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio...@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>> >for error, no excuses.
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
>> of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
>>
>> Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
>> are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
>> exist. The format is COMP-2.
>
>When I was working at a major bank, our solution was to record dollar
>sums as the integer number of pennies.

Which is what integer-based solutions basically are when the data has
a decimal point at a fixed position.

And they work very well for addition and subtraction.

Multiplication and division are where you start to have to keep track
of where the decimal point is. Also rounding. Doable, but it helps if
the programmer/coder/whatever the title is actually knows how its
done.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<0RrhL.8$Use.3@fx15.iad>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Tue, 29 Nov 2022 18:04 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 20:20:19 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
><petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 8:22:43 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio...@4ax.com>,
>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> >OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>>> >for error, no excuses.
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
>>> of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
>>>
>>> Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
>>> are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
>>> exist. The format is COMP-2.
>>
>>When I was working at a major bank, our solution was to record dollar
>>sums as the integer number of pennies.
>
>Which is what integer-based solutions basically are when the data has
>a decimal point at a fixed position.

I think most cases (particularly banks) will record in mills, rather
than pennies to accommodate fractional cents.

>
>And they work very well for addition and subtraction.

However, they're limited to the scope of the underlying integer
unit (e.g. a 32-bit signed integer can't represent more than around
two hundred million dollars if denominated in pennies, or
twenty million dollars if denominated in mills). This does
go up a bit with 64-bit integers (by a factor of four billion),
allowing about 900 trillion mills.
>
>Multiplication and division are where you start to have to keep track
>of where the decimal point is. Also rounding. Doable, but it helps if
>the programmer/coder/whatever the title is actually knows how its
>done.

Just do all calculation in mills and the decimal point is always
fixed.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<k62fohpr383vp3o1smkqie8e7b9l79abdg@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 08:51:52 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 16:51 UTC

On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 18:04:44 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 20:20:19 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
>><petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 8:22:43 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio...@4ax.com>,
>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>>>> >for error, no excuses.
>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>> And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
>>>> of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
>>>>
>>>> Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
>>>> are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
>>>> exist. The format is COMP-2.
>>>
>>>When I was working at a major bank, our solution was to record dollar
>>>sums as the integer number of pennies.
>>
>>Which is what integer-based solutions basically are when the data has
>>a decimal point at a fixed position.
>
>I think most cases (particularly banks) will record in mills, rather
>than pennies to accommodate fractional cents.
>
>>
>>And they work very well for addition and subtraction.
>
>However, they're limited to the scope of the underlying integer
>unit (e.g. a 32-bit signed integer can't represent more than around
>two hundred million dollars if denominated in pennies, or
>twenty million dollars if denominated in mills). This does
>go up a bit with 64-bit integers (by a factor of four billion),
>allowing about 900 trillion mills.

IIRC, there have existed for some time libraries allowing integers of
any desired size to be manipulated. The only limit is available
memory. Which, given paging, may or may not be disk memory.

Of course, this convenience is paid for in how long it takes to do the
computations.

>>Multiplication and division are where you start to have to keep track
>>of where the decimal point is. Also rounding. Doable, but it helps if
>>the programmer/coder/whatever the title is actually knows how its
>>done.
>
>Just do all calculation in mills and the decimal point is always
>fixed.

I don't think so.

5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils

but
..005 x .003 == .000015

the decimal point /moves/ with multiplication and division.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<0cdebc5d-398d-49e8-9569-b31d7378f7ean@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:50 UTC

On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:51:59 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 18:04:44 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
> >Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
> >>On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 20:20:19 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
> >><pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 8:22:43 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>> In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio...@4ax.com>,
> >>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> >OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
> >>>> >for error, no excuses.
> >>>> (Hal Heydt)
> >>>> And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
> >>>> of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
> >>>> are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
> >>>> exist. The format is COMP-2.
> >>>
> >>>When I was working at a major bank, our solution was to record dollar
> >>>sums as the integer number of pennies.
> >>
> >>Which is what integer-based solutions basically are when the data has
> >>a decimal point at a fixed position.
> >
> >I think most cases (particularly banks) will record in mills, rather
> >than pennies to accommodate fractional cents.
> >
> >>
> >>And they work very well for addition and subtraction.
> >
> >However, they're limited to the scope of the underlying integer
> >unit (e.g. a 32-bit signed integer can't represent more than around
> >two hundred million dollars if denominated in pennies, or
> >twenty million dollars if denominated in mills). This does
> >go up a bit with 64-bit integers (by a factor of four billion),
> >allowing about 900 trillion mills.
> IIRC, there have existed for some time libraries allowing integers of
> any desired size to be manipulated. The only limit is available
> memory. Which, given paging, may or may not be disk memory.
>
> Of course, this convenience is paid for in how long it takes to do the
> computations.
> >>Multiplication and division are where you start to have to keep track
> >>of where the decimal point is. Also rounding. Doable, but it helps if
> >>the programmer/coder/whatever the title is actually knows how its
> >>done.
> >
> >Just do all calculation in mills and the decimal point is always
> >fixed.
> I don't think so.
>
> 5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils
>
> but
> .005 x .003 == .000015
>
> the decimal point /moves/ with multiplication and division.

I think your misunderstand. He wants to use integers representing
the number of mils. It just adds 1 digit of precision over using pennies.

'5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils' is nonsensical. It's like saying
'5 dollars x 3 dollars == 15 dollars' Dollars don't multiply
dollars.

$0.005 can be represented as 0005 mils, and multiplying by
3 gives you 0015, which is $0.015. The decimal place is, indeed, fixed.

If you actually want to multiply by 0.003, you are multiplying an integer
by a real value, producing a real. That's a different problem.

Bonus question: There's one place most Americans see mils used on
a daily basis. Where is it?

Pt

Let's Keep the Dimensions Straight (was Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<robertaw-6640E7.09562030112022@news.individual.net>

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From: rober...@drizzle.com (Robert Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Let's Keep the Dimensions Straight (was Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
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 by: Robert Woodward - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 17:56 UTC

In article <k62fohpr383vp3o1smkqie8e7b9l79abdg@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 18:04:44 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
>

<Snip>
> >>And they work very well for addition and subtraction.
> >
> >However, they're limited to the scope of the underlying integer
> >unit (e.g. a 32-bit signed integer can't represent more than around
> >two hundred million dollars if denominated in pennies, or
> >twenty million dollars if denominated in mills). This does
> >go up a bit with 64-bit integers (by a factor of four billion),
> >allowing about 900 trillion mills.
>
<Snip>
> >
> >Just do all calculation in mills and the decimal point is always
> >fixed.
>
> I don't think so.
>
> 5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils
>

Ahem, your result is mils squared (does that makes any sense?)

> but
> .005 x .003 == .000015
>

And this result is presumably dollars squared.

> the decimal point /moves/ with multiplication and division.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<8ZMhL.15281$3SM3.3572@fx45.iad>

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 by: Scott Lurndal - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 18:07 UTC

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:51:59 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 18:04:44 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>> >Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>> >>On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 20:20:19 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
>> >><pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 8:22:43 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>>> In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>> >OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>> >>>> >for error, no excuses.
>> >>>> (Hal Heydt)
>> >>>> And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
>> >>>> of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
>> >>>> are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
>> >>>> exist. The format is COMP-2.
>> >>>
>> >>>When I was working at a major bank, our solution was to record dollar
>> >>>sums as the integer number of pennies.
>> >>
>> >>Which is what integer-based solutions basically are when the data has
>> >>a decimal point at a fixed position.
>> >
>> >I think most cases (particularly banks) will record in mills, rather
>> >than pennies to accommodate fractional cents.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>And they work very well for addition and subtraction.
>> >
>> >However, they're limited to the scope of the underlying integer
>> >unit (e.g. a 32-bit signed integer can't represent more than around
>> >two hundred million dollars if denominated in pennies, or
>> >twenty million dollars if denominated in mills). This does
>> >go up a bit with 64-bit integers (by a factor of four billion),
>> >allowing about 900 trillion mills.
>> IIRC, there have existed for some time libraries allowing integers of
>> any desired size to be manipulated. The only limit is available
>> memory. Which, given paging, may or may not be disk memory.
>>
>> Of course, this convenience is paid for in how long it takes to do the
>> computations.
>> >>Multiplication and division are where you start to have to keep track
>> >>of where the decimal point is. Also rounding. Doable, but it helps if
>> >>the programmer/coder/whatever the title is actually knows how its
>> >>done.
>> >
>> >Just do all calculation in mills and the decimal point is always
>> >fixed.
>> I don't think so.
>>
>> 5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils
>>
>> but
>> .005 x .003 == .000015
>>
>> the decimal point /moves/ with multiplication and division.
>
>I think your misunderstand. He wants to use integers representing
>the number of mils. It just adds 1 digit of precision over using pennies.
>
>'5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils' is nonsensical. It's like saying
>'5 dollars x 3 dollars == 15 dollars' Dollars don't multiply
>dollars.
>
>$0.005 can be represented as 0005 mils, and multiplying by
>3 gives you 0015, which is $0.015. The decimal place is, indeed, fixed.
>
>If you actually want to multiply by 0.003, you are multiplying an integer
>by a real value, producing a real. That's a different problem.
>
>Bonus question: There's one place most Americans see mils used on
>a daily basis. Where is it?

Every gasoline station.

As I understand it, the term is 'mills' for monetary, and 'mil'
as a measurment.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

<tm8goa$2jjij$1@dont-email.me>

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From: michael....@gmail.com (Michael F. Stemper)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 15:08:26 -0600
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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Wed, 30 Nov 2022 21:08 UTC

On 30/11/2022 11.50, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 11:51:59 AM UTC-5, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 18:04:44 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 20:20:19 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
>>>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 8:22:43 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>> In article <3pjsnhpkh9nf24pio...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> OTOH, I expect my bank statements to be accurate to the penny. No room
>>>>>>> for error, no excuses.
>>>>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>>>>> And much as both packed decimal and COBOL are maligned, the use
>>>>>> of packed decimal in COBOL makes doing just that very easy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Side note... COBOL has floating point variables, although they
>>>>>> are almost never used and very few COBOL programmers know they
>>>>>> exist. The format is COMP-2.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I was working at a major bank, our solution was to record dollar
>>>>> sums as the integer number of pennies.
>>>>
>>>> Which is what integer-based solutions basically are when the data has
>>>> a decimal point at a fixed position.
>>>
>>> I think most cases (particularly banks) will record in mills, rather
>>> than pennies to accommodate fractional cents.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And they work very well for addition and subtraction.
>>>
>>> However, they're limited to the scope of the underlying integer
>>> unit (e.g. a 32-bit signed integer can't represent more than around
>>> two hundred million dollars if denominated in pennies, or
>>> twenty million dollars if denominated in mills). This does
>>> go up a bit with 64-bit integers (by a factor of four billion),
>>> allowing about 900 trillion mills.
>> IIRC, there have existed for some time libraries allowing integers of
>> any desired size to be manipulated. The only limit is available
>> memory. Which, given paging, may or may not be disk memory.
>>
>> Of course, this convenience is paid for in how long it takes to do the
>> computations.
>>>> Multiplication and division are where you start to have to keep track
>>>> of where the decimal point is. Also rounding. Doable, but it helps if
>>>> the programmer/coder/whatever the title is actually knows how its
>>>> done.
>>>
>>> Just do all calculation in mills and the decimal point is always
>>> fixed.
>> I don't think so.
>>
>> 5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils
>>
>> but
>> .005 x .003 == .000015
>>
>> the decimal point /moves/ with multiplication and division.
>
> I think you misunderstand. He wants to use integers representing
> the number of mils. It just adds 1 digit of precision over using pennies.
>
> '5 mils x 3 mils == 15 mils' is nonsensical. It's like saying
> '5 dollars x 3 dollars == 15 dollars' Dollars don't multiply
> dollars.

Which brings us back to a very early post in this thread. Always
explicitly carry your units around with the calculations.

--
Michael F. Stemper
There's no "me" in "team". There's no "us" in "team", either.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

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From: noo...@nowhere.com (Titus G)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 18:12:52 +1300
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 by: Titus G - Thu, 1 Dec 2022 05:12 UTC

On 1/12/22 06:50, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
snip

> Bonus question: There's one place most Americans see mils used on
> a daily basis. Where is it?

In Aotearoa, fuels are advertised as X.XXx per litre where the lower
case x is always 9, highlighting their sneakiness.

Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???

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Subject: Re: Hard science question: How do G forces work???
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Thu, 1 Dec 2022 14:10 UTC

On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 12:12:57 AM UTC-5, Titus G wrote:
> On 1/12/22 06:50, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> snip
> > Bonus question: There's one place most Americans see mils used on
> > a daily basis. Where is it?
> In Aotearoa, fuels are advertised as X.XXx per litre where the lower
> case x is always 9, highlighting their sneakiness.

Same. There's always a 9/10 at the end of the price, or just a small 9.

pt

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