Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:742f6f4f-22b0-45a0-9ac6-59573d4e14e3n@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 9:55:31 PM UTC-7, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>
>> Now you're just quibbling over definitions so as to not admit
>> that you were rull of shit.
>
>> You said something stupid, quoting someone stupid, and you're
>> not man enough to admit it.
>
> It's true that generalizations are nearly always false, at least
> in part.

And it's true that you're always wrong, in stupid ways.

> Star Trek took real science fiction to the mainstream of
> American TV.

Yeah, that's why the ratings were so good it got cancelled. Heh.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:41:18 AM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> (Have you ever seen the Hellfire Club episode? If
> you try to claim with a straight face that's "kid stuff", you
> should be committed for your own safety.)

Were I so fortunate as to have a relationship with
Kim Kardashian, I definitely would not do things that
would cause her to reconsider that relationship.

John Savard

On Nov 27, 2022, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote
(in article <juit5sF9bjkU1@mid.individual.net>):

> In article<0001HW.293463C700C091BF70000201338F@news.supernews.com>,
> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 27, 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
> > (in article<a488c2ab-32c3-48b0-b92c-4168ed42aecen@googlegroups.com>):
> >
> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 3:49:53 PM UTC-5, WolfFan wrote:
> > > > I worshiped the lists of
> > > > Hugo and Nebula nominees, and bought every single one that I could
> > > [snip]
> > > > After a while I just got hold of the various Hugo/Nebula winners,
> > > > even when I was in Britain or Canada or the US, and it was relatively easy
> > > > to
> > > > get SF. Then I started just taking note of the winners. Then I stopped
> > > > caring. Then I started actively avoiding anything which had ‘Hugo’ or
> > > > ’Nebula winner’ attached to it. Current awards committees, or
> > > > whoever’s
> > > > in charge, have succeeded in driving me away... and ensuring that my
> > > > credit
> > > > card stays in my wallet. Perhaps I’m missing really great stuff, but
> > > > that’s not the way to bet after literally 50+ years of observing the
> > > > trend.
> > > > I read very little new SF. Mostly I re-read my old collection. I’ve got
> > > > literally thousands of books. [snip]
> > >
> > > It sounds like there are two separate issues here. The first one is that
> > > recent Hugo/Nebula winners/nominees do not match your taste in SF.
> > > The second one is that you haven't come across (much) recent SF
> > > that you find enjoyable.
> > >
> > > The first issue doesn't seem like it should be that big a deal. There
> > > are lost of "best of" lists, awards, review blogs, etc these days.
> > > Finding one or more sources of reviews/recommendations that
> > > match your tastes may take some time, but it should be doable.
> > >
> > > The second issue is a much more serious one. If you find that the
> > > reason that there is "very little new SF" that you like is not that you
> > > haven't found compatible reviewers but a near absence of the kind
> > > of SF that you like among the thousands of books that get
> > > published every year, then there isn't much that can be done about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you could list some of the recently published SF books
> > > that you enjoyed? It may help other r.a.sf.w. posters come up with
> > > recommendations. If you prefer "sense of wonder" SF, have you
> > > tried _The Martian_, _Children of Time_, Peter F. Hamilton?
> >
> > I liked the first three Commonweal books. The fourth was okay, but Saunders
> > has started to go off the deep end with the fifth one.
> >
> > I started reading the Temeraire books. I bogged down when Our Heroes were
> > stuck in Deepest Africa, a Deepest Africa which had very little in common
> > with the Africa I knew. (I was reminded of the one and only Rat Patrol
> > novelization that I ever started. I stopped it when the waited stated that
> > the Rat Patrol’s Jeeps were armed with 50mm _machine guns_. Yeah. Right. I
> > never finished that book.) S. M. Stirling has vanished down a rabbit-hole.
> > David Weber pulled the rabbit-hole in after himself; there was a time when I
> > read Honorverse books in hardcover, but now I couldn’t name the latest
> > three to save my life. Hamilton collapsed the rabbit-hole; I never was into
> > the Princess Merry books, and I couldn’t name the last six Anita Blakes.
> > Kratman’s a nazi. Ringo isn’t far behind. Corriea is telling the same
> > story, over and over and over again, just with more and bigger guns. I’ve
> > got guns. I’m not impressed. Drake is burned out. Tayler should have got
> > the Hugo for “Longshoreman of the Apocalypse”; that he didn’t was the
> > final nail in the coffin for my caring about Hugo/Nebula awards, but Schlock
> > Mercenary’s finished its run. It’s over, there ain’t no more Schlock.
> > If I see a new Bujold, I buy it. I’ll probably buy the next Commonweal
> > book, if only to see if the decline continues; if it does, that’ll be the
> > last I buy. Turtledove has done variations on the American Civil War and on
> > World War 2, repeatedly; occasionally there’s something new and
> > interesting, such as Joe Steele (Turtledove rigs things so that Ioseb
> > Besarionis dze Jughashvili was born in California, not Georgia (the _other_
> > Georgia) and becomes the Democratic nominee for President of the US in 1932.
> > The best part was when he does what should have been done in reality, and
> > has
> > Dug-Out Doug MacArthur shot.)
> >
> > If I go to a Barnes & Noble, very few of the books have authors I
> > recognize,
> > and very few of the cover blurbs attract. Same with a trip to Amazon’s or
> > Apple’s ebook stores; there seem to an amazing number of books inspired by
> > Hornblower or Aubrey or both, but In Space. Thanks, but I’ve read Honor
> > Harrington, no need for third-rate imitations.
>
> Well, you liked Honor Harrington, but you don't anymore, and you're not
> interested in anything that she used to be like.. That kind of makes using
> that as a data-point difficult :-)
>
> So.. Have you tried Flintlock punk? If not, Powdermage is worth a shot.
>
> Other than that, let me pitch some of my favorites from the past few years:
>
> _In the Shadow of Lightning (Glass Immortals Book 1)_: A glass based
> magic system in a romanesque world with two very rootable leads
> (yeah, Commonwealth folk.. I know) and a larger than life best friend.
>
> _Kings Of The Wyld_: If mercenary groups were like rock bands in a
> s&s world, but Pratchett wrote it (he didn't) so it has heart and
> humor.
>
> Tsun-Tsun TzimTzum: Probably the best harem fantasy series ever
> written. (And that's not faint praise).
>
> Ilona Andrews: The best action romances going.

I’ll have a look. I’d like a new Cinnabar story from Drake (he does
Aubrey In Space very well, better than Weber used to do Hornblower In Space,
and far better than the horde of imitators out there) but that’s unlikely.
Drake’s about had it. I’d settle for a new Slammers book, though that
wouldn’t be ideal, but that’s even less likely than a new Cinnabar.

I really hope that a new Commonweal book is good.

On Nov 28, 2022, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <tm1kkb$1d7u$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 11/27/2022 9:34 PM, WolfFan wrote:
> > On Nov 27, 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
> > (in article<a488c2ab-32c3-48b0-b92c-4168ed42aecen@googlegroups.com>):
> >
> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 3:49:53 PM UTC-5, WolfFan wrote:
> > > > I worshiped the lists of
> > > > Hugo and Nebula nominees, and bought every single one that I could
> > > [snip]
> > > > After a while I just got hold of the various Hugo/Nebula winners,
> > > > even when I was in Britain or Canada or the US, and it was relatively easy
> > > > to
> > > > get SF. Then I started just taking note of the winners. Then I stopped
> > > > caring. Then I started actively avoiding anything which had ‘Hugo’ or
> > > > ’Nebula winner’ attached to it. Current awards committees, or
> > > > whoever’s
> > > > in charge, have succeeded in driving me away... and ensuring that my
> > > > credit
> > > > card stays in my wallet. Perhaps I’m missing really great stuff, but
> > > > that’s not the way to bet after literally 50+ years of observing the
> > > > trend.
> > > > I read very little new SF. Mostly I re-read my old collection. I’ve got
> > > > literally thousands of books. [snip]
> > >
> > > It sounds like there are two separate issues here. The first one is that
> > > recent Hugo/Nebula winners/nominees do not match your taste in SF.
> > > The second one is that you haven't come across (much) recent SF
> > > that you find enjoyable.
> > >
> > > The first issue doesn't seem like it should be that big a deal. There
> > > are lost of "best of" lists, awards, review blogs, etc these days.
> > > Finding one or more sources of reviews/recommendations that
> > > match your tastes may take some time, but it should be doable.
> > >
> > > The second issue is a much more serious one. If you find that the
> > > reason that there is "very little new SF" that you like is not that you
> > > haven't found compatible reviewers but a near absence of the kind
> > > of SF that you like among the thousands of books that get
> > > published every year, then there isn't much that can be done about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you could list some of the recently published SF books
> > > that you enjoyed? It may help other r.a.sf.w. posters come up with
> > > recommendations. If you prefer "sense of wonder" SF, have you
> > > tried _The Martian_, _Children of Time_, Peter F. Hamilton?
> >
> > I liked the first three Commonweal books. The fourth was okay, but Saunders
> > has started to go off the deep end with the fifth one.
> >
> > I started reading the Temeraire books. I bogged down when Our Heroes were
> > stuck in Deepest Africa, a Deepest Africa which had very little in common
> > with the Africa I knew. (I was reminded of the one and only Rat Patrol
> > novelization that I ever started. I stopped it when the waited stated that
> > the Rat Patrol’s Jeeps were armed with 50mm _machine guns_. Yeah. Right. I
> > never finished that book.) S. M. Stirling has vanished down a rabbit-hole.
> > David Weber pulled the rabbit-hole in after himself; there was a time when I
> > read Honorverse books in hardcover, but now I couldn’t name the latest
> > three to save my life. Hamilton collapsed the rabbit-hole; I never was into
> > the Princess Merry books, and I couldn’t name the last six Anita Blakes.
> > Kratman’s a nazi. Ringo isn’t far behind. Corriea is telling the same
> > story, over and over and over again, just with more and bigger guns. I’ve
> > got guns. I’m not impressed. Drake is burned out. Tayler should have got
> > the Hugo for “Longshoreman of the Apocalypse”; that he didn’t was the
> > final nail in the coffin for my caring about Hugo/Nebula awards, but Schlock
> > Mercenary’s finished its run. It’s over, there ain’t no more Schlock.
> > If I see a new Bujold, I buy it. I’ll probably buy the next Commonweal
> > book, if only to see if the decline continues; if it does, that’ll be the
> > last I buy. Turtledove has done variations on the American Civil War and on
> > World War 2, repeatedly; occasionally there’s something new and
> > interesting, such as Joe Steele (Turtledove rigs things so that Ioseb
> > Besarionis dze Jughashvili was born in California, not Georgia (the _other_
> > Georgia) and becomes the Democratic nominee for President of the US in 1932.
> > The best part was when he does what should have been done in reality, and
> > has
> > Dug-Out Doug MacArthur shot.)
> >
> > If I go to a Barnes & Noble, very few of the books have authors I
> > recognize,
> > and very few of the cover blurbs attract. Same with a trip to Amazon’s or
> > Apple’s ebook stores; there seem to an amazing number of books inspired by
> > Hornblower or Aubrey or both, but In Space. Thanks, but I’ve read Honor
> > Harrington, no need for third-rate imitations.
>
> B&N has burned itself out and is more interested in toys than SF.
>
> Have you tried "A Long Time Until Now" by Michael Williamson ?
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Long-Time-Until-Temporal-Displacement/dp/1476781729/
>
> Sorry that you don't like Ringo. His "Graveyard Sky" and "Live Free or
> Die" series are awesome to me.

I stopped reading Ringo when he spun up his anti-Islam nonsense. I grew up
with, among others, Muslims, and his crap thoroughly pissed me off. He gets
not one more penny from me.

To be sure, he isn’t as bad as Kratman, but that’s because it’s
impossible to match Kratman.
>
>
> Have you tried the Bobiverse series ? "We Are Legion (We Are Bob)" by
> Dennis E. Taylor ?
> https://www.amazon.com/We-Are-Legion-Bob-Bobiverse/dp/1680680587/

I might look at that.
>
>
> Lynn

In article <0001HW.2936352F012DA52470000201338F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>On Nov 27, 2022, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote
>(in article <juit5sF9bjkU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> In article<0001HW.293463C700C091BF70000201338F@news.supernews.com>,
>> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>> > On Nov 27, 2022, Ahasuerus wrote
>> > (in article<a488c2ab-32c3-48b0-b92c-4168ed42aecen@googlegroups.com>):
>> >
>> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 3:49:53 PM UTC-5, WolfFan wrote:
>> > > > I worshiped the lists of
>> > > > Hugo and Nebula nominees, and bought every single one that I could
>> > > [snip]
>> > > > After a while I just got hold of the various Hugo/Nebula winners,
>> > > > even when I was in Britain or Canada or the US, and it was
>relatively easy
>> > > > to
>> > > > get SF. Then I started just taking note of the winners. Then I stopped
>> > > > caring. Then I started actively avoiding anything which had
>‘Hugo’ or
>> > > > ’Nebula winner’ attached to it. Current awards committees, or
>> > > > whoever’s
>> > > > in charge, have succeeded in driving me away... and ensuring that my
>> > > > credit
>> > > > card stays in my wallet. Perhaps I’m missing really great stuff, but
>> > > > that’s not the way to bet after literally 50+ years of observing the
>> > > > trend.
>> > > > I read very little new SF. Mostly I re-read my old collection.
>I’ve got
>> > > > literally thousands of books. [snip]
>> > >
>> > > It sounds like there are two separate issues here. The first one is that
>> > > recent Hugo/Nebula winners/nominees do not match your taste in SF.
>> > > The second one is that you haven't come across (much) recent SF
>> > > that you find enjoyable.
>> > >
>> > > The first issue doesn't seem like it should be that big a deal. There
>> > > are lost of "best of" lists, awards, review blogs, etc these days.
>> > > Finding one or more sources of reviews/recommendations that
>> > > match your tastes may take some time, but it should be doable.
>> > >
>> > > The second issue is a much more serious one. If you find that the
>> > > reason that there is "very little new SF" that you like is not that you
>> > > haven't found compatible reviewers but a near absence of the kind
>> > > of SF that you like among the thousands of books that get
>> > > published every year, then there isn't much that can be done about
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > > Perhaps you could list some of the recently published SF books
>> > > that you enjoyed? It may help other r.a.sf.w. posters come up with
>> > > recommendations. If you prefer "sense of wonder" SF, have you
>> > > tried _The Martian_, _Children of Time_, Peter F. Hamilton?
>> >
>> > I liked the first three Commonweal books. The fourth was okay, but Saunders
>> > has started to go off the deep end with the fifth one.
>> >
>> > I started reading the Temeraire books. I bogged down when Our Heroes were
>> > stuck in Deepest Africa, a Deepest Africa which had very little in common
>> > with the Africa I knew. (I was reminded of the one and only Rat Patrol
>> > novelization that I ever started. I stopped it when the waited stated that
>> > the Rat Patrol’s Jeeps were armed with 50mm _machine guns_. Yeah. Right. I
>> > never finished that book.) S. M. Stirling has vanished down a rabbit-hole.
>> > David Weber pulled the rabbit-hole in after himself; there was a time when I
>> > read Honorverse books in hardcover, but now I couldn’t name the latest
>> > three to save my life. Hamilton collapsed the rabbit-hole; I never was into
>> > the Princess Merry books, and I couldn’t name the last six Anita Blakes.
>> > Kratman’s a nazi. Ringo isn’t far behind. Corriea is telling the same
>> > story, over and over and over again, just with more and bigger guns. I’ve
>> > got guns. I’m not impressed. Drake is burned out. Tayler should have got
>> > the Hugo for “Longshoreman of the Apocalypse”; that he didn’t was the
>> > final nail in the coffin for my caring about Hugo/Nebula awards, but Schlock
>> > Mercenary’s finished its run. It’s over, there ain’t no more Schlock.
>> > If I see a new Bujold, I buy it. I’ll probably buy the next Commonweal
>> > book, if only to see if the decline continues; if it does, that’ll be the
>> > last I buy. Turtledove has done variations on the American Civil War and on
>> > World War 2, repeatedly; occasionally there’s something new and
>> > interesting, such as Joe Steele (Turtledove rigs things so that Ioseb
>> > Besarionis dze Jughashvili was born in California, not Georgia (the _other_
>> > Georgia) and becomes the Democratic nominee for President of the US in 1932.
>> > The best part was when he does what should have been done in reality, and
>> > has
>> > Dug-Out Doug MacArthur shot.)
>> >
>> > If I go to a Barnes & Noble, very few of the books have authors I
>> > recognize,
>> > and very few of the cover blurbs attract. Same with a trip to Amazon’s or
>> > Apple’s ebook stores; there seem to an amazing number of books inspired by
>> > Hornblower or Aubrey or both, but In Space. Thanks, but I’ve read Honor
>> > Harrington, no need for third-rate imitations.
>>
>> Well, you liked Honor Harrington, but you don't anymore, and you're not
>> interested in anything that she used to be like.. That kind of makes using
>> that as a data-point difficult :-)
>>
>> So.. Have you tried Flintlock punk? If not, Powdermage is worth a shot.
>>
>> Other than that, let me pitch some of my favorites from the past few years:
>>
>> _In the Shadow of Lightning (Glass Immortals Book 1)_: A glass based
>> magic system in a romanesque world with two very rootable leads
>> (yeah, Commonwealth folk.. I know) and a larger than life best friend.
>>
>> _Kings Of The Wyld_: If mercenary groups were like rock bands in a
>> s&s world, but Pratchett wrote it (he didn't) so it has heart and
>> humor.
>>
>> Tsun-Tsun TzimTzum: Probably the best harem fantasy series ever
>> written. (And that's not faint praise).
>>
>> Ilona Andrews: The best action romances going.
>
>I’ll have a look. I’d like a new Cinnabar story from Drake (he does
>Aubrey In Space very well, better than Weber used to do Hornblower In Space,
>and far better than the horde of imitators out there) but that’s unlikely.
>Drake’s about had it. I’d settle for a new Slammers book, though that
>wouldn’t be ideal, but that’s even less likely than a new Cinnabar.
>
>I really hope that a new Commonweal book is good.
>

My understanding is that Drake announced a few months back that he
was no longer able to write novels though he might continue to do shorts.

To some extent I felt that Bennis's Signal Airship books were a good
Mundy/Leary take (but with Mundy in command). Unfortunately she seems not
to have got traction with those and the series is stuck at two entries.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <0001HW.2936352F012DA52470000201338F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>
>I'll have a look. I'd like a new Cinnabar story from Drake

Drake has some challenging health issues and at least in 2021
felt he had to retire:

https://david-drake.com/2021/newsletter-123-the-last-one/

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 9:17:43 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <0001HW.2936352F01...@news.supernews.com>,
> WolfFan <akwo...@zoho.com> wrote:
> >
> >I'll have a look. I'd like a new Cinnabar story from Drake
> Drake has some challenging health issues and at least in 2021
> felt he had to retire:
>
> https://david-drake.com/2021/newsletter-123-the-last-one/

His latest newsletter (October 14,
https://david-drake.com/2022/newsletter-128/) clarified:

"My writing was always been the main thing to me. That’s why I’ve
retired from writing. I can no longer keep a whole work [in] my head,
so I can no longer write to my satisfaction. I don’t want to turn out
inferior stuff, and I’m not financially required to do so."

That said, newsletter #126 (May 25, 2022,
https://david-drake.com/2022/newsletter-126/) also said:

"Thinking about _Danger: Dinosaurs_ [by Sal Lombino aka Ed McBain
writing as Hunt Collins] I remembered writing a YA after I got back to
the world in 1971. I had graduated from Duke law school. I took the
bar view course but didn’t have a job, so I had a lot of time. I had
written short stories and even sold two of them, but I wanted to write
a novel – a YA because it was shorter than an adult novel and I
thought the literary standards might be lower.

[snip]

I decided to take another look at my novel draft if I could find it.
At first I couldn’t, but my wife Jo dug through a file drawer and
found the novel.

I’ve read it now. It has real problems but I had succeeded in my
intention: to write a book which could fit in 1950’s juvenile SF line.
Could it be rewritten for modern audiences? I’ll have to think.

We know a great deal more about dinosaurs now than we did in
1972 when I wrote the draft. Knowledge about dinosaurs has
changed fast but society has changed even faster. The book was
written with no reference to sex or drugs. That was believable
with 17-year olds in the ’50s, at least with dorks like me, but it
isn’t now.

Finding the draft made me feel positive for the first time in a long
while. Even if I decide there’s nothing useful to be done with it.
There’s a project I think I should be able to handle and I plan to try."

As an aside, it's a bit odd that Drake thinks that "no reference to sex
or drugs" would be unbelievable in a YA book published today since
cumulative probability of having had sexual intercourse was only
0.41-0.42 for 17-year-olds and 0.55 for 18-year-olds in 2011-2015
(https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr104.pdf , Figure 1 on
page 6) and it had been steadily dropping since the late 1980s.

Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote in
news:8adad2b2-7a9f-4323-904d-9fbb2146ffd3n@googlegroups.com:

> As an aside, it's a bit odd that Drake thinks that "no reference
> to sex or drugs" would be unbelievable in a YA book published
> today since cumulative probability of having had sexual
> intercourse was only 0.41-0.42 for 17-year-olds and 0.55 for
> 18-year-olds in 2011-2015
> (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr104.pdf , Figure 1 on
> page 6) and it had been steadily dropping since the late 1980s.
>
That is, perhaps, *why* fiction is expected to have references to it.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 07:40:15 -0500, WolfFan wrote:

> On Nov 27, 2022, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote (in article
> <juit5sF9bjkU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> In article<0001HW.293463C700C091BF70000201338F@news.supernews.com>,
>> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>> > On Nov 27, 2022, Ahasuerus wrote (in
>> > article<a488c2ab-32c3-48b0-b92c-4168ed42aecen@googlegroups.com>):
>> >
>> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 3:49:53 PM UTC-5, WolfFan wrote:
>> > > > I worshiped the lists of Hugo and Nebula nominees, and bought
>> > > > every single one that I could
>> > > [snip]
>> > > > After a while I just got hold of the various Hugo/Nebula winners,
>> > > > even when I was in Britain or Canada or the US, and it was
>> > > > relatively easy to get SF. Then I started just taking note of the
>> > > > winners. Then I stopped caring. Then I started actively avoiding
>> > > > anything which had ‘Hugo’ or ’Nebula winner’ attached to it.
>> > > > Current awards committees, or whoever’s in charge, have succeeded
>> > > > in driving me away... and ensuring that my credit card stays in
>> > > > my wallet. Perhaps I’m missing really great stuff, but that’s not
>> > > > the way to bet after literally 50+ years of observing the trend.
>> > > > I read very little new SF. Mostly I re-read my old collection.
>> > > > I’ve got literally thousands of books. [snip]
>> > >
>> > > It sounds like there are two separate issues here. The first one is
>> > > that recent Hugo/Nebula winners/nominees do not match your taste in
>> > > SF.
>> > > The second one is that you haven't come across (much) recent SF
>> > > that you find enjoyable.
>> > >
>> > > The first issue doesn't seem like it should be that big a deal.
>> > > There are lost of "best of" lists, awards, review blogs, etc these
>> > > days. Finding one or more sources of reviews/recommendations that
>> > > match your tastes may take some time, but it should be doable.
>> > >
>> > > The second issue is a much more serious one. If you find that the
>> > > reason that there is "very little new SF" that you like is not that
>> > > you haven't found compatible reviewers but a near absence of the
>> > > kind of SF that you like among the thousands of books that get
>> > > published every year, then there isn't much that can be done about
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > > Perhaps you could list some of the recently published SF books that
>> > > you enjoyed? It may help other r.a.sf.w. posters come up with
>> > > recommendations. If you prefer "sense of wonder" SF, have you tried
>> > > _The Martian_, _Children of Time_, Peter F. Hamilton?
>> >
>> > I liked the first three Commonweal books. The fourth was okay, but
>> > Saunders has started to go off the deep end with the fifth one.
>> >
>> > I started reading the Temeraire books. I bogged down when Our Heroes
>> > were stuck in Deepest Africa, a Deepest Africa which had very little
>> > in common with the Africa I knew. (I was reminded of the one and only
>> > Rat Patrol novelization that I ever started. I stopped it when the
>> > waited stated that the Rat Patrol’s Jeeps were armed with 50mm
>> > _machine guns_. Yeah. Right. I never finished that book.) S. M.
>> > Stirling has vanished down a rabbit-hole. David Weber pulled the
>> > rabbit-hole in after himself; there was a time when I read Honorverse
>> > books in hardcover, but now I couldn’t name the latest three to save
>> > my life. Hamilton collapsed the rabbit-hole; I never was into the
>> > Princess Merry books, and I couldn’t name the last six Anita Blakes.
>> > Kratman’s a nazi. Ringo isn’t far behind. Corriea is telling the same
>> > story, over and over and over again, just with more and bigger guns.
>> > I’ve got guns. I’m not impressed. Drake is burned out. Tayler should
>> > have got the Hugo for “Longshoreman of the Apocalypse”; that he
>> > didn’t was the final nail in the coffin for my caring about
>> > Hugo/Nebula awards, but Schlock Mercenary’s finished its run. It’s
>> > over, there ain’t no more Schlock. If I see a new Bujold, I buy it.
>> > I’ll probably buy the next Commonweal book, if only to see if the
>> > decline continues; if it does, that’ll be the last I buy. Turtledove
>> > has done variations on the American Civil War and on World War 2,
>> > repeatedly; occasionally there’s something new and interesting, such
>> > as Joe Steele (Turtledove rigs things so that Ioseb Besarionis dze
>> > Jughashvili was born in California, not Georgia (the _other_ Georgia)
>> > and becomes the Democratic nominee for President of the US in 1932.
>> > The best part was when he does what should have been done in reality,
>> > and has Dug-Out Doug MacArthur shot.)
>> >
>> > If I go to a Barnes & Noble, very few of the books have authors I
>> > recognize,
>> > and very few of the cover blurbs attract. Same with a trip to
>> > Amazon’s or Apple’s ebook stores; there seem to an amazing number of
>> > books inspired by Hornblower or Aubrey or both, but In Space. Thanks,
>> > but I’ve read Honor Harrington, no need for third-rate imitations.
>>
>> Well, you liked Honor Harrington, but you don't anymore, and you're not
>> interested in anything that she used to be like.. That kind of makes
>> using that as a data-point difficult :-)
>>
>> So.. Have you tried Flintlock punk? If not, Powdermage is worth a shot.
>>
>> Other than that, let me pitch some of my favorites from the past few
>> years:
>>
>> _In the Shadow of Lightning (Glass Immortals Book 1)_: A glass based
>> magic system in a romanesque world with two very rootable leads (yeah,
>> Commonwealth folk.. I know) and a larger than life best friend.
>>
>> _Kings Of The Wyld_: If mercenary groups were like rock bands in a s&s
>> world, but Pratchett wrote it (he didn't) so it has heart and humor.
>>
>> Tsun-Tsun TzimTzum: Probably the best harem fantasy series ever
>> written. (And that's not faint praise).
>>
>> Ilona Andrews: The best action romances going.
>
> I’ll have a look. I’d like a new Cinnabar story from Drake (he does
> Aubrey In Space very well, better than Weber used to do Hornblower In
> Space,
> and far better than the horde of imitators out there) but that’s
> unlikely.
> Drake’s about had it. I’d settle for a new Slammers book, though that
> wouldn’t be ideal, but that’s even less likely than a new Cinnabar.
>
> I really hope that a new Commonweal book is good.

Have you tried looking at self-published books, apart from Saunders?
Most of them are crap and they seem to multiply like bunnies but I have
ran across some fun ones and it is about the only way "older style" SF
gets published nowadays.

Glynn Stewart might be a good place to start,his first few books were
rough and he will never get acclaimed as a wordsmith but I have enjoyed
most of his books.

Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> writes:
>On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 07:40:15 -0500, WolfFan wrote:
>
>> On Nov 27, 2022, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan wrote (in article
>> <juit5sF9bjkU1@mid.individual.net>):
>>
>>> In article<0001HW.293463C700C091BF70000201338F@news.supernews.com>,
>>> WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>>> > On Nov 27, 2022, Ahasuerus wrote (in
>>> > article<a488c2ab-32c3-48b0-b92c-4168ed42aecen@googlegroups.com>):
>>> >
>>> > > On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 3:49:53 PM UTC-5, WolfFan wrote:
>>> > > > I worshiped the lists of Hugo and Nebula nominees, and bought
>>> > > > every single one that I could
>>> > > [snip]
>>> > > > After a while I just got hold of the various Hugo/Nebula winners,
>>> > > > even when I was in Britain or Canada or the US, and it was
>>> > > > relatively easy to get SF. Then I started just taking note of the
>>> > > > winners. Then I stopped caring. Then I started actively avoiding
>>> > > > anything which had ‘Hugo’ or ’Nebula winner’ attached to it.
>>> > > > Current awards committees, or whoever’s in charge, have succeeded
>>> > > > in driving me away... and ensuring that my credit card stays in
>>> > > > my wallet. Perhaps I’m missing really great stuff, but that’s not
>>> > > > the way to bet after literally 50+ years of observing the trend.
>>> > > > I read very little new SF. Mostly I re-read my old collection.
>>> > > > I’ve got literally thousands of books. [snip]
>>> > >
>>> > > It sounds like there are two separate issues here. The first one is
>>> > > that recent Hugo/Nebula winners/nominees do not match your taste in
>>> > > SF.
>>> > > The second one is that you haven't come across (much) recent SF
>>> > > that you find enjoyable.
>>> > >
>>> > > The first issue doesn't seem like it should be that big a deal.
>>> > > There are lost of "best of" lists, awards, review blogs, etc these
>>> > > days. Finding one or more sources of reviews/recommendations that
>>> > > match your tastes may take some time, but it should be doable.
>>> > >
>>> > > The second issue is a much more serious one. If you find that the
>>> > > reason that there is "very little new SF" that you like is not that
>>> > > you haven't found compatible reviewers but a near absence of the
>>> > > kind of SF that you like among the thousands of books that get
>>> > > published every year, then there isn't much that can be done about
>>> > > it.
>>> > >
>>> > > Perhaps you could list some of the recently published SF books that
>>> > > you enjoyed? It may help other r.a.sf.w. posters come up with
>>> > > recommendations. If you prefer "sense of wonder" SF, have you tried
>>> > > _The Martian_, _Children of Time_, Peter F. Hamilton?
>>> >
>>> > I liked the first three Commonweal books. The fourth was okay, but
>>> > Saunders has started to go off the deep end with the fifth one.
>>> >
>>> > I started reading the Temeraire books. I bogged down when Our Heroes
>>> > were stuck in Deepest Africa, a Deepest Africa which had very little
>>> > in common with the Africa I knew. (I was reminded of the one and only
>>> > Rat Patrol novelization that I ever started. I stopped it when the
>>> > waited stated that the Rat Patrol’s Jeeps were armed with 50mm
>>> > _machine guns_. Yeah. Right. I never finished that book.) S. M.
>>> > Stirling has vanished down a rabbit-hole. David Weber pulled the
>>> > rabbit-hole in after himself; there was a time when I read Honorverse
>>> > books in hardcover, but now I couldn’t name the latest three to save
>>> > my life. Hamilton collapsed the rabbit-hole; I never was into the
>>> > Princess Merry books, and I couldn’t name the last six Anita Blakes.
>>> > Kratman’s a nazi. Ringo isn’t far behind. Corriea is telling the same
>>> > story, over and over and over again, just with more and bigger guns.
>>> > I’ve got guns. I’m not impressed. Drake is burned out. Tayler should
>>> > have got the Hugo for “Longshoreman of the Apocalypse”; that he
>>> > didn’t was the final nail in the coffin for my caring about
>>> > Hugo/Nebula awards, but Schlock Mercenary’s finished its run. It’s
>>> > over, there ain’t no more Schlock. If I see a new Bujold, I buy it.
>>> > I’ll probably buy the next Commonweal book, if only to see if the
>>> > decline continues; if it does, that’ll be the last I buy. Turtledove
>>> > has done variations on the American Civil War and on World War 2,
>>> > repeatedly; occasionally there’s something new and interesting, such
>>> > as Joe Steele (Turtledove rigs things so that Ioseb Besarionis dze
>>> > Jughashvili was born in California, not Georgia (the _other_ Georgia)
>>> > and becomes the Democratic nominee for President of the US in 1932.
>>> > The best part was when he does what should have been done in reality,
>>> > and has Dug-Out Doug MacArthur shot.)
>>> >
>>> > If I go to a Barnes & Noble, very few of the books have authors I
>>> > recognize,
>>> > and very few of the cover blurbs attract. Same with a trip to
>>> > Amazon’s or Apple’s ebook stores; there seem to an amazing number of
>>> > books inspired by Hornblower or Aubrey or both, but In Space. Thanks,
>>> > but I’ve read Honor Harrington, no need for third-rate imitations.
>>>
>>> Well, you liked Honor Harrington, but you don't anymore, and you're not
>>> interested in anything that she used to be like.. That kind of makes
>>> using that as a data-point difficult :-)
>>>
>>> So.. Have you tried Flintlock punk? If not, Powdermage is worth a shot.
>>>
>>> Other than that, let me pitch some of my favorites from the past few
>>> years:
>>>
>>> _In the Shadow of Lightning (Glass Immortals Book 1)_: A glass based
>>> magic system in a romanesque world with two very rootable leads (yeah,
>>> Commonwealth folk.. I know) and a larger than life best friend.
>>>
>>> _Kings Of The Wyld_: If mercenary groups were like rock bands in a s&s
>>> world, but Pratchett wrote it (he didn't) so it has heart and humor.
>>>
>>> Tsun-Tsun TzimTzum: Probably the best harem fantasy series ever
>>> written. (And that's not faint praise).
>>>
>>> Ilona Andrews: The best action romances going.
>>
>> I’ll have a look. I’d like a new Cinnabar story from Drake (he does
>> Aubrey In Space very well, better than Weber used to do Hornblower In
>> Space,
>> and far better than the horde of imitators out there) but that’s
>> unlikely.
>> Drake’s about had it. I’d settle for a new Slammers book, though that
>> wouldn’t be ideal, but that’s even less likely than a new Cinnabar.
>>
>> I really hope that a new Commonweal book is good.
>
>Have you tried looking at self-published books, apart from Saunders?
>Most of them are crap and they seem to multiply like bunnies but I have
>ran across some fun ones and it is about the only way "older style" SF
>gets published nowadays.
>
>Glynn Stewart might be a good place to start,his first few books were
>rough and he will never get acclaimed as a wordsmith but I have enjoyed
>most of his books.

There are also occasional finds on fanfiction.net, like this one:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6562320/1/The-Grandfather-Paradox

In article <tm5ivt$2aicc$1@dont-email.me>,
Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Have you tried looking at self-published books, apart from Saunders?
>Most of them are crap and they seem to multiply like bunnies but I have
>ran across some fun ones and it is about the only way "older style" SF
>gets published nowadays.

But how does one sift such a huge mass of works, given that most of
them are unreadable crap? There's only 24 hours in a day.

>Glynn Stewart might be a good place to start,his first few books were
>rough and he will never get acclaimed as a wordsmith but I have enjoyed
>most of his books.

I am somewhat embarrassed to have never read any of his books,
given that he is local to me.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 19:43:33 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

> In article <tm5ivt$2aicc$1@dont-email.me>,
> Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>Have you tried looking at self-published books, apart from Saunders?
>>Most of them are crap and they seem to multiply like bunnies but I have
>>ran across some fun ones and it is about the only way "older style" SF
>>gets published nowadays.
>
> But how does one sift such a huge mass of works, given that most of them
> are unreadable crap? There's only 24 hours in a day.
>
Recommendations from friends,from here, and a few other places I hang out
on the web. Than I pirate the most interesting sounding book from a new
author and do a flip through test like I would in a book store. If it
passes I buy it. If it turns out I like it then I keep an eye on the
author.

On 11/25/2022 10:57 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:tlpf76$mrj$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>
>> On 11/24/2022 3:45 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 5:31:18 AM UTC-7,
>>> jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't see why some episodes of Star Trek shouldn't be
>>>> mil-sf. It was an anthology show. Should there be some
>>>> tortured definition of comedy so that "The Trouble with
>>>> Tribbles" isn't one?
>>>
>>> Star Trek made history precisely because it _wasn't_ an
>>> "anthology show"; it had _continuing characters_, unlike The
>>> Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, and Playhouse 90.
>>>
>>> It certainly is true, though, that it was built around
>>> individual episodes, not long story arcs.
>>>
>>> While "The Trouble with Tribbles" definitely was comedy, and so
>>> was "A Piece of the Action", I think that by the _usual_
>>> "definition" of mil-sf, nothing in Star Trek would really
>>> qualify.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>> Star Trek got canceled because it was the most expensive show in
>> TV. Desilu could not take the risk and so let it go.
>>
> No. That isn't why it was cancelled, and it wasn't the most
> expensive show in Television. Bonanza cost more, as did The
> Virginian. Of the eight most expensive shows in the 60s and 70s,
> Star Trek ranks #7.
>
> It was cancelled because the ratings were dropping, because a) it
> was stuffed into one of the worst time slots on Friday nights, and
> b) Roddenberry stopped being actively involved as (what today would
> be called) show runner[1], Gene L. Coon had died, and the people
> running the show didn't really know all that much about it. Which
> is why the ratings dropped (even more than they would have with a
> Friday night slot) By most accounts, it was about mid range in cost
> for the time.
>
> [1]He was promised a prime Monday night time slot, which would have
> brought in a much bigger potential audience, but Laugh In's
> producer had a lot more pull with the networks. I don't think it's
> entirely unreasonable to consider Roddenberry's reaction to be a
> bit of a snit, though he had a point about avoiding a reputation
> for "giving in."

Sounds like it was multiple factors.

Lucille Ball wrote in her autobiography that the Star Trek episode cost
rose above $100,000 per episode in the third season and CBS ??? refused
to pay that. So Desilu was forced to eat the cost and she did not like
that.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:tm6bpl$2c7nq$2@dont-email.me:

> On 11/25/2022 10:57 AM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:tlpf76$mrj$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>>
>>> On 11/24/2022 3:45 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 5:31:18 AM UTC-7,
>>>> jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't see why some episodes of Star Trek shouldn't be
>>>>> mil-sf. It was an anthology show. Should there be some
>>>>> tortured definition of comedy so that "The Trouble with
>>>>> Tribbles" isn't one?
>>>>
>>>> Star Trek made history precisely because it _wasn't_ an
>>>> "anthology show"; it had _continuing characters_, unlike The
>>>> Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, and Playhouse 90.
>>>>
>>>> It certainly is true, though, that it was built around
>>>> individual episodes, not long story arcs.
>>>>
>>>> While "The Trouble with Tribbles" definitely was comedy, and
>>>> so was "A Piece of the Action", I think that by the _usual_
>>>> "definition" of mil-sf, nothing in Star Trek would really
>>>> qualify.
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>> Star Trek got canceled because it was the most expensive show
>>> in TV. Desilu could not take the risk and so let it go.
>>>
>> No. That isn't why it was cancelled, and it wasn't the most
>> expensive show in Television. Bonanza cost more, as did The
>> Virginian. Of the eight most expensive shows in the 60s and
>> 70s, Star Trek ranks #7.
>>
>> It was cancelled because the ratings were dropping, because a)
>> it was stuffed into one of the worst time slots on Friday
>> nights, and b) Roddenberry stopped being actively involved as
>> (what today would be called) show runner[1], Gene L. Coon had
>> died, and the people running the show didn't really know all
>> that much about it. Which is why the ratings dropped (even more
>> than they would have with a Friday night slot) By most
>> accounts, it was about mid range in cost for the time.
>>
>> [1]He was promised a prime Monday night time slot, which would
>> have brought in a much bigger potential audience, but Laugh
>> In's producer had a lot more pull with the networks. I don't
>> think it's entirely unreasonable to consider Roddenberry's
>> reaction to be a bit of a snit, though he had a point about
>> avoiding a reputation for "giving in."
>
> Sounds like it was multiple factors.

It always is.
>
> Lucille Ball wrote in her autobiography that the Star Trek
> episode cost rose above $100,000 per episode in the third season
> and CBS ??? refused to pay that. So Desilu was forced to eat
> the cost and she did not like that.

According to everyone else, the average cost per episode went
*down* each season, from $190,000 in season one to $175,000 in
season three (according to Wikipedia).

Perhaps what went up was Desilu's share of it.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

In article <acdabe33-5335-4ea1-b2de-138bbc976f53n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:41:18 AM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> The Avengers was unquestionably
>> science fiction, at least a times, and started in 1961. Some of
>> that could be classified as "kid's stuff," I suppose, but not all,
>> and most of it was aimed at adults as much as children. Certainly
>> not The Avengers. (Have you ever seen the Hellfire Club episode? If
>> you try to claim with a straight face that's "kid stuff", you
>> should be committed for your own safety.)
>
>The Avengers was indeed intended for an adult, or at least
>post-pubescent, audience. I remember it, and Diana Rigg,
>quite well, thank you.
>
>However, while it contained science-fiction elements, like
>the "cybernauts", it wasn't trying to address serious
>science fiction themes the way The Outer Limits or the
>original Star Trek attempted to. It was an action-adventure
>show, aiming to deliver pure entertainment.
>
>And it was *British*, not American, which already means
>that it doesn't count.
>
>My Favorite Martian was a situation comedy.
>
>Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is one of the science
>fiction shows that *was* kid stuff. Unlike Lost in Space
>and The Time Tunnel, it may have run for a longer time
>before Irwin Allen ruined it, but while some episodes of
>all three shows occasionally had plot elements that could
>be taken seriously, fighting with monsters in rubber suits
>was basically what those shows were about.

(Hal Heydt)
Where do you class "Science Fiction Theater" and (just for the
amusement of those with long memories) "Captain Video"?

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 9:47:48 PM UTC-7, Hal Heydt wrote:
> Where do you class "Science Fiction Theater" and (just for the
> amusement of those with long memories) "Captain Video"?

Science Fiction Theater was an anthology series; Captain Video
had continuing characters, and was aimed at children.

So they are examples of the two kinds of science fiction show that
were most common before Star Trek came along.

John Savard

Le samedi 3 décembre 2022 à 15:19:13 UTC+1, Quadibloc a écrit :
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 9:47:48 PM UTC-7, Hal Heydt wrote:
>
> > Where do you class "Science Fiction Theater" and (just for the
> > amusement of those with long memories) "Captain Video"?
> Science Fiction Theater was an anthology series; Captain Video
> had continuing characters, and was aimed at children.
>
> So they are examples of the two kinds of science fiction show that
> were most common before Star Trek came along.
>
> John Savard
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On 11/27/2022 9:45 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:41:18 AM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>> The Avengers was unquestionably
>> science fiction, at least a times, and started in 1961. Some of
>> that could be classified as "kid's stuff," I suppose, but not all,
>> and most of it was aimed at adults as much as children. Certainly
>> not The Avengers. (Have you ever seen the Hellfire Club episode? If
>> you try to claim with a straight face that's "kid stuff", you
>> should be committed for your own safety.)
>
> The Avengers was indeed intended for an adult, or at least
> post-pubescent, audience. I remember it, and Diana Rigg,
> quite well, thank you.
>
> However, while it contained science-fiction elements, like
> the "cybernauts", it wasn't trying to address serious
> science fiction themes the way The Outer Limits or the
> original Star Trek attempted to. It was an action-adventure
> show, aiming to deliver pure entertainment.
>
> And it was *British*, not American, which already means
> that it doesn't count.
>
> My Favorite Martian was a situation comedy.
>
> Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is one of the science
> fiction shows that *was* kid stuff. Unlike Lost in Space
> and The Time Tunnel, it may have run for a longer time
> before Irwin Allen ruined it, but while some episodes of
> all three shows occasionally had plot elements that could
> be taken seriously, fighting with monsters in rubber suits
> was basically what those shows were about.
>
> John Savard

Time Tunnel was cool even if I watched it in Black&White. We did not
have a color tv until 1972.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 11/27/2022 9:45 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:41:18 AM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>> The Avengers was unquestionably
>>> science fiction, at least a times, and started in 1961. Some of
>>> that could be classified as "kid's stuff," I suppose, but not all,
>>> and most of it was aimed at adults as much as children. Certainly
>>> not The Avengers. (Have you ever seen the Hellfire Club episode? If
>>> you try to claim with a straight face that's "kid stuff", you
>>> should be committed for your own safety.)
>>
>> The Avengers was indeed intended for an adult, or at least
>> post-pubescent, audience. I remember it, and Diana Rigg,
>> quite well, thank you.
>>
>> However, while it contained science-fiction elements, like
>> the "cybernauts", it wasn't trying to address serious
>> science fiction themes the way The Outer Limits or the
>> original Star Trek attempted to. It was an action-adventure
>> show, aiming to deliver pure entertainment.
>>
>> And it was *British*, not American, which already means
>> that it doesn't count.
>>
>> My Favorite Martian was a situation comedy.
>>
>> Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is one of the science
>> fiction shows that *was* kid stuff. Unlike Lost in Space
>> and The Time Tunnel, it may have run for a longer time
>> before Irwin Allen ruined it, but while some episodes of
>> all three shows occasionally had plot elements that could
>> be taken seriously, fighting with monsters in rubber suits
>> was basically what those shows were about.
>>
>> John Savard
>
>Time Tunnel was cool even if I watched it in Black&White. We did not
>have a color tv until 1972.

I believe I have the DVDs of that squirreled away somewhere. Should
see if it is still watchable.

In article <8vewL.409594$9sn9.318492@fx17.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>On 11/27/2022 9:45 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:41:18 AM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
>Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>> The Avengers was unquestionably
>>>> science fiction, at least a times, and started in 1961. Some of
>>>> that could be classified as "kid's stuff," I suppose, but not all,
>>>> and most of it was aimed at adults as much as children. Certainly
>>>> not The Avengers. (Have you ever seen the Hellfire Club episode? If
>>>> you try to claim with a straight face that's "kid stuff", you
>>>> should be committed for your own safety.)
>>>
>>> The Avengers was indeed intended for an adult, or at least
>>> post-pubescent, audience. I remember it, and Diana Rigg,
>>> quite well, thank you.
>>>
>>> However, while it contained science-fiction elements, like
>>> the "cybernauts", it wasn't trying to address serious
>>> science fiction themes the way The Outer Limits or the
>>> original Star Trek attempted to. It was an action-adventure
>>> show, aiming to deliver pure entertainment.
>>>
>>> And it was *British*, not American, which already means
>>> that it doesn't count.
>>>
>>> My Favorite Martian was a situation comedy.
>>>
>>> Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is one of the science
>>> fiction shows that *was* kid stuff. Unlike Lost in Space
>>> and The Time Tunnel, it may have run for a longer time
>>> before Irwin Allen ruined it, but while some episodes of
>>> all three shows occasionally had plot elements that could
>>> be taken seriously, fighting with monsters in rubber suits
>>> was basically what those shows were about.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>>Time Tunnel was cool even if I watched it in Black&White. We did not
>>have a color tv until 1972.
>
>I believe I have the DVDs of that squirreled away somewhere. Should
>see if it is still watchable.

https://nerocam.com/DrFun/Dave/Dr-Fun/df9709/df970918.jpg

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