Here's yet another installment of my Marx Space Guys retro future adventure.. The big thing is, I finally gave in and worked in Nazi spacecraft as part of the alternate-history backstory. It was something I had worked with before in my Exotroopers series, without even knowing the lore until I had already worked out most of it. I found a further rationale in the fact that the "Space Nazi" idea apparently figured very early in Heinlein's YA space adventures, which are believed to have inspired the Tom Corbett franchise that the toys were based on. What this brings to my mind is, has anyone treated a Nazi space program as a remotely serious proposition?
https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/12/fiction-space-guys-adventure-part-11.html
David N. Brown
Mesa, Arizona

David Brown wrote:
> Here's yet another installment of my Marx Space Guys retro future adventure. The big thing is, I finally gave in and worked in Nazi spacecraft as part of the alternate-history backstory. It was something I had worked with before in my Exotroopers series, without even knowing the lore until I had already worked out most of it. I found a further rationale in the fact that the "Space Nazi" idea apparently figured very early in Heinlein's YA space adventures, which are believed to have inspired the Tom Corbett franchise that the toys were based on. What this brings to my mind is, has anyone treated a Nazi space program as a remotely serious proposition?
> https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/12/fiction-space-guys-adventure-part-11.html

I don't know how remotely serious they get, but "Luft '46" are studies of German projects uncompleted because of the end of the War. I like to think they would be identified in a sequence of years, one for prototypes, one for "paper projects," and another for the pie-in-the-sky ideas -- which would include the A-10 and A-11, but I don't see any consensus on that subject.

--
-Jack

On Tuesday, 13 December 2022 at 14:34:43 UTC, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
> > Here's yet another installment of my Marx Space Guys retro future adventure. The big thing is, I finally gave in and worked in Nazi spacecraft as part of the alternate-history backstory. It was something I had worked with before in my Exotroopers series, without even knowing the lore until I had already worked out most of it. I found a further rationale in the fact that the "Space Nazi" idea apparently figured very early in Heinlein's YA space adventures, which are believed to have inspired the Tom Corbett franchise that the toys were based on. What this brings to my mind is, has anyone treated a Nazi space program as a remotely serious proposition?
> > https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/12/fiction-space-guys-adventure-part-11.html
>
> I don't know how remotely serious they get, but "Luft '46" are studies of German projects uncompleted because of the end of the War. I like to think they would be identified in a sequence of years, one for prototypes, one for "paper projects," and another for the pie-in-the-sky ideas -- which would include the A-10 and A-11, but I don't see any consensus on that subject.

I mean, my first thought was "Wernher von Braun".

As told, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Ley>
was appalled by Nazis. In the late 1920s -
"Due to the influence of Ley and other popular science
writers, such as Max Valier, Germans witnessed a
short-lived "rocketry fad" in Berlin. From exhibits at
public locations to large spectator events, such as
Fritz von Opel's rocket-car stunts, the German public
was excited about both the future possibilities of
space travel and the potential for new "weapons of
wonder" that could revive the German Empire." (Uh oh.)
"The "rocketry fad" culminated with Fritz Lang's
1929 film _Die Frau im Mond_ (Woman in the Moon),
which became the first realistic depiction of spaceflight
in cinematic history."

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 7:02:43 PM UTC-5, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Tuesday, 13 December 2022 at 14:34:43 UTC, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > David Brown wrote:
> > > Here's yet another installment of my Marx Space Guys retro future adventure. The big thing is, I finally gave in and worked in Nazi spacecraft as part of the alternate-history backstory. It was something I had worked with before in my Exotroopers series, without even knowing the lore until I had already worked out most of it. I found a further rationale in the fact that the "Space Nazi" idea apparently figured very early in Heinlein's YA space adventures, which are believed to have inspired the Tom Corbett franchise that the toys were based on. What this brings to my mind is, has anyone treated a Nazi space program as a remotely serious proposition?
> > > https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/12/fiction-space-guys-adventure-part-11.html
> >
> > I don't know how remotely serious they get, but "Luft '46" are studies of German projects uncompleted because of the end of the War. I like to think they would be identified in a sequence of years, one for prototypes, one for "paper projects," and another for the pie-in-the-sky ideas -- which would include the A-10 and A-11, but I don't see any consensus on that subject.

> I mean, my first thought was "Wernher von Braun".

A bit further thought on von Braun reminds me that his plans at the time -- and definitely what was achievable with rockets of the time -- involved rockets launched from Earth achieving a sublunar orbit; they would have required some station to accumulate the fuel and a ship appropriate for reaching the moon, surely something visible by the Allies, if attempted. I'm short on knowledge of _Rocketship Galileo_ and most of his juveniles, did Heinlein address this?

--
-Jack

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 7:34:43 AM UTC-7, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
> > Here's yet another installment of my Marx Space Guys retro future adventure. The big thing is, I finally gave in and worked in Nazi spacecraft as part of the alternate-history backstory. It was something I had worked with before in my Exotroopers series, without even knowing the lore until I had already worked out most of it. I found a further rationale in the fact that the "Space Nazi" idea apparently figured very early in Heinlein's YA space adventures, which are believed to have inspired the Tom Corbett franchise that the toys were based on. What this brings to my mind is, has anyone treated a Nazi space program as a remotely serious proposition?
> > https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/12/fiction-space-guys-adventure-part-11.html
> I don't know how remotely serious they get, but "Luft '46" are studies of German projects uncompleted because of the end of the War. I like to think they would be identified in a sequence of years, one for prototypes, one for "paper projects," and another for the pie-in-the-sky ideas -- which would include the A-10 and A-11, but I don't see any consensus on that subject.
>
> --
> -Jack
The A10 is where you get into "gray area". As an engineering proposal, it was quite solid, certainly not in the category of fanciful designs like the Landkreuzer project. Unfortunately, the waters were muddied by reports of a working example being finished, which now appears to be some combination of hoax and wishful thinking. I will admit I was taken in up to a point, but my Exotroopers stories in particular were already too far off the charts for it to matter.

In article <cc145a18-2677-4898-a3f5-b46b7d4f876cn@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 7:02:43 PM UTC-5, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 13 December 2022 at 14:34:43 UTC, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>> > David Brown wrote:
>> > > Here's yet another installment of my Marx Space Guys retro future
>adventure. The big thing is, I finally gave in and worked in Nazi
>spacecraft as part of the alternate-history backstory. It was something
>I had worked with before in my Exotroopers series, without even knowing
>the lore until I had already worked out most of it. I found a further
>rationale in the fact that the "Space Nazi" idea apparently figured very
>early in Heinlein's YA space adventures, which are believed to have
>inspired the Tom Corbett franchise that the toys were based on. What
>this brings to my mind is, has anyone treated a Nazi space program as a
>remotely serious proposition?
>> > >
>https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/12/fiction-space-guys-adventure-part-11.html
>> >
>> > I don't know how remotely serious they get, but "Luft '46" are
>studies of German projects uncompleted because of the end of the War. I
>like to think they would be identified in a sequence of years, one for
>prototypes, one for "paper projects," and another for the pie-in-the-sky
>ideas -- which would include the A-10 and A-11, but I don't see any
>consensus on that subject.
>
>> I mean, my first thought was "Wernher von Braun".
>
>A bit further thought on von Braun reminds me that his plans at the time
>-- and definitely what was achievable with rockets of the time --
>involved rockets launched from Earth achieving a sublunar orbit; they
>would have required some station to accumulate the fuel and a ship
>appropriate for reaching the moon, surely something visible by the
>Allies, if attempted. I'm short on knowledge of _Rocketship Galileo_
>and most of his juveniles, did Heinlein address this?

(Hal Heydt)
The biggest problem, during and immediately after, WW2 with
trying to get something into orbit was more computational than
the rockets. Or--at least--to get somehting into a specific
desired orbit.

Project Bumper, which mated a US Army Wac Corporal solid fuel
rocket as a second stage to a V-2 managed to go more or less
straight up to 250 miles, in--IIRC--1947. So the delta-V was
pretty much there at the time.

In the early days of space launches, one used to have to wait at
least an hour and a half after launch before anyone would commit
to the satellite actually being in orbit. There was a desire to
see it come around at least once, just to be sure it really was
in orbit.

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 3:23:07 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <cc145a18-2677-4898...@googlegroups.com>,
> Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 7:02:43 PM UTC-5, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 13 December 2022 at 14:34:43 UTC, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > David Brown wrote:
> >> > > Here's yet another installment of my Marx Space Guys retro future
> >adventure. The big thing is, I finally gave in and worked in Nazi
> >spacecraft as part of the alternate-history backstory. It was something
> >I had worked with before in my Exotroopers series, without even knowing
> >the lore until I had already worked out most of it. I found a further
> >rationale in the fact that the "Space Nazi" idea apparently figured very
> >early in Heinlein's YA space adventures, which are believed to have
> >inspired the Tom Corbett franchise that the toys were based on. What
> >this brings to my mind is, has anyone treated a Nazi space program as a
> >remotely serious proposition?
> >> > >
> >https://trendytroodon.blogspot.com/2022/12/fiction-space-guys-adventure-part-11.html
> >> >
> >> > I don't know how remotely serious they get, but "Luft '46" are
> >studies of German projects uncompleted because of the end of the War. I
> >like to think they would be identified in a sequence of years, one for
> >prototypes, one for "paper projects," and another for the pie-in-the-sky
> >ideas -- which would include the A-10 and A-11, but I don't see any
> >consensus on that subject.
> >
> >> I mean, my first thought was "Wernher von Braun".
> >
> >A bit further thought on von Braun reminds me that his plans at the time
> >-- and definitely what was achievable with rockets of the time --
> >involved rockets launched from Earth achieving a sublunar orbit; they
> >would have required some station to accumulate the fuel and a ship
> >appropriate for reaching the moon, surely something visible by the
> >Allies, if attempted. I'm short on knowledge of _Rocketship Galileo_
> >and most of his juveniles, did Heinlein address this?
> (Hal Heydt)
> The biggest problem, during and immediately after, WW2 with
> trying to get something into orbit was more computational than
> the rockets. Or--at least--to get somehting into a specific
> desired orbit.
>
> Project Bumper, which mated a US Army Wac Corporal solid fuel
> rocket as a second stage to a V-2 managed to go more or less
> straight up to 250 miles, in--IIRC--1947. So the delta-V was
> pretty much there at the time.
>
> In the early days of space launches, one used to have to wait at
> least an hour and a half after launch before anyone would commit
> to the satellite actually being in orbit. There was a desire to
> see it come around at least once, just to be sure it really was
> in orbit.

Getting a rocket above the Karman line (100 km) and into space is
one thing; amateurs have done that with a 13 foot single stage rocket.
Orbit is a different matter: you have accelerate your satellite to at
least 14,430 mph, sideways, so it doesn't just fall again.

Project Bumper just wasn't there. It's max speed was 2.24
km/s, while orbital velocity is at least 6.5 km/s.

Pt