On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:54:07 PM UTC+11, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <ca685dca-27df-42ed...@googlegroups.com>,
> Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:12:54 AM UTC+11, Michael F. Stemper
> > wrote:
> > > On 19/12/2022 16.45, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:19:23 AM UTC+11, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > >> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > > >>> How many deer ? How many other animals to eat ?
> > > >> For spear hunters (your platoon would eventually
> > > >> run out of ammo and the relatively few gallons of
> > > >> fuel - even assuming the MRAPs had full tanks and
> > > >> jerrycans before the transfer to the past.
> > > >>
> > > >> There were, as noted, a large number of carnivorous
> > > >> animals such as tigers, lions, etc. Given that
> > > >> it would be in the ice age, or near the end thereof,
> > > >> there would be few game animals.
> > > >
> > > > A lot of carnivores and few game animals?
> > > > Seems a rather unusual combination, what are the carnivores eating?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> How many fish in the rivers ?
> > > >> What rivers? Arid and Semiarid climate.
> > > >
> > > > strangely enough there are rivers and streams in many places that are hot
> > > "Arid" doesn't mean "hot", it means "dry", so that's irrelevant.
> > > There generally aren't a lot of rivers and streams in places that
> > > are dry. Go figure.
> > >
> >
> > Afghanistan is arid to semiarid
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_Afghanistan
> Now it is,

Yes, it's an arid region now and it has rivers
Which means that the argument that arid regions don't have rivers seems rather dubious.

> but what was it in 15000BCE?

Dunno, a quick search suggested that it wasn't that far off modern conditions there but I'm sure

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 7:01:34 AM UTC-5, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:54:07 PM UTC+11, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > In article <ca685dca-27df-42ed...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:12:54 AM UTC+11, Michael F. Stemper
> > > wrote:
> > > > On 19/12/2022 16.45, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:19:23 AM UTC+11, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > > >> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > >
> > > > >>> How many deer ? How many other animals to eat ?
> > > > >> For spear hunters (your platoon would eventually
> > > > >> run out of ammo and the relatively few gallons of
> > > > >> fuel - even assuming the MRAPs had full tanks and
> > > > >> jerrycans before the transfer to the past.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> There were, as noted, a large number of carnivorous
> > > > >> animals such as tigers, lions, etc. Given that
> > > > >> it would be in the ice age, or near the end thereof,
> > > > >> there would be few game animals.
> > > > >
> > > > > A lot of carnivores and few game animals?
> > > > > Seems a rather unusual combination, what are the carnivores eating?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> How many fish in the rivers ?
> > > > >> What rivers? Arid and Semiarid climate.
> > > > >
> > > > > strangely enough there are rivers and streams in many places that are hot
> > > > "Arid" doesn't mean "hot", it means "dry", so that's irrelevant.
> > > > There generally aren't a lot of rivers and streams in places that
> > > > are dry. Go figure.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Afghanistan is arid to semiarid
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_Afghanistan
> > Now it is,
> Yes, it's an arid region now and it has rivers
> Which means that the argument that arid regions don't have rivers seems rather dubious.
> > but what was it in 15000BCE?
> Dunno, a quick search suggested that it wasn't that far off modern conditions there but I'm sure

Yes. Here's the map I linked earlier in the thread.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum#/media/File%3ALast_Glacial_Maximum_Vegetation_Map.svg

pt

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 7:01:34 AM UTC-5, Hamish Laws wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 4:54:07 PM UTC+11, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> > In article <ca685dca-27df-42ed...@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Hamish Laws <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 1:12:54 AM UTC+11, Michael F. Stemper
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > On 19/12/2022 16.45, Hamish Laws wrote:
>> > > > > On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:19:23 AM UTC+11, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > > > >> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>> > > >
>> > > > >>> How many deer ? How many other animals to eat ?
>> > > > >> For spear hunters (your platoon would eventually
>> > > > >> run out of ammo and the relatively few gallons of
>> > > > >> fuel - even assuming the MRAPs had full tanks and
>> > > > >> jerrycans before the transfer to the past.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> There were, as noted, a large number of carnivorous
>> > > > >> animals such as tigers, lions, etc. Given that
>> > > > >> it would be in the ice age, or near the end thereof,
>> > > > >> there would be few game animals.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > A lot of carnivores and few game animals?
>> > > > > Seems a rather unusual combination, what are the carnivores eating?
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> How many fish in the rivers ?
>> > > > >> What rivers? Arid and Semiarid climate.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > strangely enough there are rivers and streams in many places that are hot
>> > > > "Arid" doesn't mean "hot", it means "dry", so that's irrelevant.
>> > > > There generally aren't a lot of rivers and streams in places that
>> > > > are dry. Go figure.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Afghanistan is arid to semiarid
>> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_Afghanistan
>> > Now it is,
>> Yes, it's an arid region now and it has rivers
>> Which means that the argument that arid regions don't have rivers seems rather dubious.
>> > but what was it in 15000BCE?
>> Dunno, a quick search suggested that it wasn't that far off modern conditions there but I'm sure
>
>Yes. Here's the map I linked earlier in the thread.
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum#/media/File%3ALast_Glacial_Maximum_Vegetation_Map.svg

Tropical semi-desert per that map.

"Semi-arid climates tend to support short, thorny or scrubby vegetation and are usually
dominated by either grasses or shrubs as it usually can't support forests. "

A rivers in arid and semi-arid climates can be seasonal.

"These climates tend to have hot, sometimes extremely hot, summers
and warm to cool winters, with some to minimal precipitation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-arid_climate

But, I suspect that is looking at the trees and forgetting the forest;
there would be many survival issues for a modern infantry platoon stranded
at the end of the ice age, including harsh weather, food supply, health
care, et. alia.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 12:35:35 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> Read the book !

I think I would have to in order to make sense out of it.

If, every time the time machine is used, people are thrown
into the past at random, then it would _seem_ that going
into the past to rescue victims of some idiot's use of a time
machine... would just throw more people into the past, making
things worse.

John Savard

In article <k0bj4vF1u0eU1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <Lm0oL.20106$cKvc.7046@fx42.iad>,
>Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>And even then, a diet of meat is insufficient.
>
>The Inuit did OK. And there will certainly be plants of some sort
>(that will be approached very cautiously).

(Hal Heydt)
The classic arctic problem is "rabbit starvation". The solution
is to eat the contents of the rabbit's stomach.

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 3:56:25 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "That Was Now, This Is Then" by Michael Z. Williamson
> https://www.amazon.com/That-Was-Now-This-Then/dp/1982192313/
>
> Book number two of a two book time travel science fiction series. I
> read the well printed and well bound MMPB published by Baen in 2022. I
> am hoping for a third book in the series as is hinted in the epilogue.
> BTW, I gave the first book in the series five stars. [snip-snip]

Thanks for the recommendation. I finished the first book in the series
a few days ago and found it to be a mixed bag. It’s almost like the
author read Eric Flint’s 2001-02-17 Usenet post in which Eric wrote:

> 1632, as is generally true of most of my novels, is "romanticized."
> It does not pretend to be a "naturalistic" novel in the sense of Emile
> Zola. It's an _adventure_ story, for pity's sake, and like all adventure
> stories it "tilts the scales."

and then said: “But what if you don’t romanticize time travel? What if
you give them a head start, but don't "tilt the scales" afterwards?
Can you still make it an interesting adventure story?”

Hence the American soldiers stuck in the Stone Age do not enjoy
their stay there even though they are uncommonly well equipped to
handle things due to their broad range of survival, medical and
linguistic skills. They have to deal with fear, an inadequate diet,
grief over likely loss of family, lack of life-saving medication,
substandard health care, sexual frustration, lack of sanitation
supplies, cold winters, ideological incompatibilities, etc, etc, etc.
Anything even moderately advanced takes a great deal of time
and effort to get done.

It was an interesting thought experiment although the
implementation wasn't all that it could be. The author’s ability to
describe environments and situations with words was somewhat
limited. POV transitions could be awkward, especially early on
when we were not familiar with the main POV characters. The
second half of the book could have used more tightening. The
paperback edition contains 953 pages and I suspect that the
book would have been better off at 700-800 pages.

Still, it was an interesting if overlong experiment in somewhat more
realistic time travel. People who enjoy "culture clash" scenarios will
find quite a few things to like. People who are interested in primitive
crafting may enjoy the extensive technical details more than I did.

P.S. Before anyone asks, I am familiar with Poul Anderson's "The
Man Who Came Early" (1956,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Came_Early).