Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming

Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.

https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
--
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My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>
> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/

Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.

Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
your first footnote.

Lynn

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:16:39 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>
> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/

I vaguely recall a Neal Stephenson short story on this topic and Googling lead me to "Termination Shock" which I have not read, but perhaps it qualifies?

In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>>
>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>>
>>
>https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
>
>Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
>
>Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
>just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
>your first footnote.
>
I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
embraced as hard SF, yes.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
> >>
> >> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
> >> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
> >>
> >>
> >https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
> >
> >Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
> >
> >Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
> >just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
> >your first footnote.
> >
> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
> embraced as hard SF, yes.

I didn't make it much past the windmills.

Pity, I really wanted to like that book.

William Hyde

On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>>>>
>>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
>>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
>>>
>>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
>>>
>>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
>>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
>>> your first footnote.
>>>
>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
>
> I didn't make it much past the windmills.
>
> Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
>
> William Hyde

Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.
First they knocked a comet onto Mars then they installed a bunch of
nuclear reactors and orbital mirrors to melt the comet ice to provide
more atmospheric pressure. Red Mars -> Green Mars -> Blue Mars.
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Mars-Trilogy-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553560735/

Lynn

On 2/24/2023 3:08 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>>>>>
>>>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
>>>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
>>>>
>>>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
>>>>
>>>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
>>>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a
>>>> counterpoint to
>>>> your first footnote.
>>>>
>>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
>>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
>>
>> I didn't make it much past the windmills.
>>
>> Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
>>
>> William Hyde
>
> Windmills ?  I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy. First
> they knocked a comet onto Mars then they installed a bunch of nuclear
> reactors and orbital mirrors to melt the comet ice to provide more
> atmospheric pressure. Red Mars -> Green Mars -> Blue Mars.
>    https://www.amazon.com/Red-Mars-Trilogy-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0553560735/
>
I distinctly remember one member of the on-site terraforming team going
against the rules and the rest of the team's wishes by planting some
kind of moss or lichen at the bases of what I think were windmills while
he was making maintenance rounds of them. Maybe they were to power wells?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article <1a3c1b35-54fa-45f5-b3ed-51e5d6544691n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> >> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>> >>
>> >> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
>> >> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
>> >
>> >Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
>> >
>> >Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully
>terraformed Mars in
>> >just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a
>counterpoint to
>> >your first footnote.
>> >
>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
>
>I didn't make it much past the windmills.
>
Ah, I'd actually forgot those.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On 2023-02-24, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.

They planted lots of windmills all over Mars to dissipate wind
energy as heat in order to warm up the planet.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:08:45 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
> >>>>
> >>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
> >>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
> >>>
> >>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
> >>>
> >>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
> >>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
> >>> your first footnote.
> >>>
> >> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
> >> embraced as hard SF, yes.
> >
> > I didn't make it much past the windmills.
> >
> > Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
> >
> > William Hyde
> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.

Lucky you.

William Hyde

On 2/25/2023 6:46 AM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-02-24, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.
>
> They planted lots of windmills all over Mars to dissipate wind
> energy as heat in order to warm up the planet.

Man, it has been a long time since I read the Red Mars series. I don't
remember the windmills at all.

Lynn

On 2/25/2023 2:34 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:08:45 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
>>>>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
>>>>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
>>>>> your first footnote.
>>>>>
>>>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
>>>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
>>>
>>> I didn't make it much past the windmills.
>>>
>>> Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
>>>
>>> William Hyde
>> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.
>
> Lucky you.
>
> William Hyde

But, but, I thought that KSR's climate science was unimpeachable ?

Lynn

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 2/25/2023 2:34 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:08:45 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> >>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
> >>>>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
> >>>>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
> >>>>> your first footnote.
> >>>>>
> >>>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
> >>>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't make it much past the windmills.
> >>>
> >>> Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
> >>>
> >>> William Hyde
> >> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.
> >
> > Lucky you.
> >
> > William Hyde
> But, but, I thought that KSR's climate science was unimpeachable ?

That's not something I ever said. "Unimpeachable" is standard we have
never insisted on with our SF writers.

Mind you, I do like a lot of KSR's work. I have ten or so of his books, and have
finished them all except the above and "Antarctica", which I have never tried.

I recently made it halfway through another book with far more errors, and more blatant ones than
"Red Mars". The story was charming in its way, and different from other books in the
genre. But eventually the blunders just go to be too much. I couldn't read on.

I occasionally think about trying RM again. But there are so many unread books out there.

William Hyde

On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 17:08:41 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

> they installed a bunch of
> nuclear reactors and orbital mirrors to melt the comet ice

You don't melt the ice in a comet that has fallen to earth.
You wait for it to cool off and condense.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net

On 3/2/2023 11:29 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 17:08:41 -0600, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> they installed a bunch of
>> nuclear reactors and orbital mirrors to melt the comet ice
>
> You don't melt the ice in a comet that has fallen to earth.
> You wait for it to cool off and condense.

Not Earth, Mars. The ice must be melted (vaporized) to provide an
atmosphere.

Lynn

On 2/28/2023 2:53 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 2/25/2023 2:34 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:08:45 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
>>>>>>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
>>>>>>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
>>>>>>> your first footnote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
>>>>>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't make it much past the windmills.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
>>>>>
>>>>> William Hyde
>>>> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.
>>>
>>> Lucky you.
>>>
>>> William Hyde
>> But, but, I thought that KSR's climate science was unimpeachable ?
>
> That's not something I ever said. "Unimpeachable" is standard we have
> never insisted on with our SF writers.
>
> Mind you, I do like a lot of KSR's work. I have ten or so of his books, and have
> finished them all except the above and "Antarctica", which I have never tried.
>
> I recently made it halfway through another book with far more errors, and more blatant ones than
> "Red Mars". The story was charming in its way, and different from other books in the
> genre. But eventually the blunders just go to be too much. I couldn't read on.
>
> I occasionally think about trying RM again. But there are so many unread books out there.
>
> William Hyde

And the book with the blatant errors is ?

Lynn

On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:37:16 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 2/28/2023 2:53 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 2/25/2023 2:34 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> >>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:08:45 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>>> On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>>>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
> >>>>>>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully terraformed Mars in
> >>>>>>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a counterpoint to
> >>>>>>> your first footnote.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
> >>>>>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I didn't make it much past the windmills.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> William Hyde
> >>>> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.
> >>>
> >>> Lucky you.
> >>>
> >>> William Hyde
> >> But, but, I thought that KSR's climate science was unimpeachable ?
> >
> > That's not something I ever said. "Unimpeachable" is standard we have
> > never insisted on with our SF writers.
> >
> > Mind you, I do like a lot of KSR's work. I have ten or so of his books, and have
> > finished them all except the above and "Antarctica", which I have never tried.
> >
> > I recently made it halfway through another book with far more errors, and more blatant ones than
> > "Red Mars". The story was charming in its way, and different from other books in the
> > genre. But eventually the blunders just go to be too much. I couldn't read on.
> >
> > I occasionally think about trying RM again. But there are so many unread books out there.
> >
> > William Hyde
> And the book with the blatant errors is ?

"A long way to a small angry planet".

Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.

My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me. People complained about its
"wokeness", not about monitoring the risk of collision with objects in space by listening.

I would not be surprised if the author has improved considerably, but the days when I gave
authors two, three or six chances vanished with the $2 paperback.

William Hyde

In article <7777a6f7-8a07-4629-8178-0cb9d2a99e5fn@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

snip

>"A long way to a small angry planet".
>
>Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.
>
>My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me.
>People complained about its "wokeness", not about monitoring the
>risk of collision with objects in space by listening.
>
>I would not be surprised if the author has improved considerably,
>but the days when I gave authors two, three or six chances vanished
> with the $2 paperback.

Each book in the series has science more ludicrous than the
one before. I think the second one had a self-winding robot,
and one after that had a generation ship powered by the energy
of people walking around in it. The author may be trolling the
readers.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:
>On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:37:16=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 2/28/2023 2:53 PM, William Hyde wrote:=20
>> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire =
>wrote:=20

>> > William Hyde
>> And the book with the blatant errors is ?=20
>
>"A long way to a small angry planet".
>
>Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.
>
>My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me. People com=
>plained about its
>"wokeness", not about monitoring the risk of collision with objects in spac=
>e by listening.

She probably thought of SONAR, not realizing that acoustic energy needs
a medium to propogate. Although her universe may have different rules
than ours, like a physical ether.

In article <7777a6f7-8a07-4629-8178-0cb9d2a99e5fn@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:37:16 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 2/28/2023 2:53 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >> On 2/25/2023 2:34 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> >>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 6:08:45 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >>>> On 2/24/2023 4:14 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> >>>>> On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:25:54 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> >>>>>> In article <tt9nip$25cjp$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> >>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On 2/23/2023 11:16 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> Five Books About Failed Adventures in Terraforming
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Settings that offer quick, convenient terraforming logically
>> >>>>>>>> suggest quicker, very inconvenient deterraforming.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>https://www.tor.com/2023/02/23/five-books-about-failed-adventures-in-terraforming/
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Of course I read a Princess of Mars but none of the rest.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series successfully
>terraformed Mars in
>> >>>>>>> just 200 years after dropping a comet on Mars first as a
>counterpoint to
>> >>>>>>> your first footnote.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am aware KSR's Mars series is a farrago of bullshit inexplicably
>> >>>>>> embraced as hard SF, yes.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I didn't make it much past the windmills.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Pity, I really wanted to like that book.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> William Hyde
>> >>>> Windmills ? I don't remember any windmills in KSR's Mars trilogy.
>> >>>
>> >>> Lucky you.
>> >>>
>> >>> William Hyde
>> >> But, but, I thought that KSR's climate science was unimpeachable ?
>> >
>> > That's not something I ever said. "Unimpeachable" is standard we have
>> > never insisted on with our SF writers.
>> >
>> > Mind you, I do like a lot of KSR's work. I have ten or so of his
>books, and have
>> > finished them all except the above and "Antarctica", which I have
>never tried.
>> >
>> > I recently made it halfway through another book with far more
>errors, and more blatant ones than
>> > "Red Mars". The story was charming in its way, and different from
>other books in the
>> > genre. But eventually the blunders just go to be too much. I
>couldn't read on.
>> >
>> > I occasionally think about trying RM again. But there are so many
>unread books out there.
>> >
>> > William Hyde
>> And the book with the blatant errors is ?
>
>"A long way to a small angry planet".
>
>Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.
>
>My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me. People
>complained about its
>"wokeness", not about monitoring the risk of collision with objects in
>space by listening.
>
>I would not be surprised if the author has improved considerably, but
>the days when I gave
>authors two, three or six chances vanished with the $2 paperback.

(Hal Heydt)
I thought Small Angry Planet was interesting enough that I read
her second book (of which the title escapes me at the moment).
In that one, she constructed an inhabited system that *seriously*
broke my willing suspension of disbelief. (Or as MZB put it,
"Suspension of disbelief does not mean hanging it by the neck until
dead.") I had a chance to ask her about it (she was GoH at
FogCon) and she admitted that it wouldn't actually work, but that
she wanted the system that way. Haven't read anything of hers
since.

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 4:19:07 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:37:16=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 2/28/2023 2:53 PM, William Hyde wrote:=20
> >> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire =
> >wrote:=20
>
> >> > William Hyde
> >> And the book with the blatant errors is ?=20
> >
> >"A long way to a small angry planet".
> >
> >Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.
> >
> >My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me. People com=
> >plained about its
> >"wokeness", not about monitoring the risk of collision with objects in spac=
> >e by listening.
>
> She probably thought of SONAR, not realizing that acoustic energy needs
> a medium to propogate. Although her universe may have different rules
> than ours, like a physical ether.

I should have been more clear. She is talking about the captain, relaxing in
the ship, but literally listening for bangs. Small bang, no problem, loud
bang, problem. That gave me pause, but I forged on for another hundred
pages or so.

William Hyde

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 4:17:49 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <7777a6f7-8a07-4629...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> snip
> >"A long way to a small angry planet".
> >
> >Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.
> >
> >My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me.
> >People complained about its "wokeness", not about monitoring the
> >risk of collision with objects in space by listening.
> >
> >I would not be surprised if the author has improved considerably,
> >but the days when I gave authors two, three or six chances vanished
> > with the $2 paperback.
> Each book in the series has science more ludicrous than the
> one before. I think the second one had a self-winding robot,
> and one after that had a generation ship powered by the energy
> of people walking around in it. The author may be trolling the
> readers.

Could be. If people bought the algae in book one, why not push the
envelope?

Next stop, stars made of burning coal.

William Hyde

On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 23:08:23 UTC, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 4:19:07 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:37:16=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >> On 2/28/2023 2:53 PM, William Hyde wrote:=20
> > >> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire =
> > >wrote:=20
> >
> > >> > William Hyde
> > >> And the book with the blatant errors is ?=20
> > >
> > >"A long way to a small angry planet".
> > >
> > >Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.
> > >
> > >My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me. People com=
> > >plained about its
> > >"wokeness", not about monitoring the risk of collision with objects in spac=
> > >e by listening.
> >
> > She probably thought of SONAR, not realizing that acoustic energy needs
> > a medium to propogate. Although her universe may have different rules
> > than ours, like a physical ether.
> I should have been more clear. She is talking about the captain, relaxing in
> the ship, but literally listening for bangs. Small bang, no problem, loud
> bang, problem. That gave me pause, but I forged on for another hundred
> pages or so.

Oh, so this is actual collisions. At interstellar speed.
That bang on the spaceship hull. Well... are you saying
you wouldn't be listening? Does the story imply that
listening does any good? (I'm not contradicting myself.)

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 7:34:34 PM UTC-5, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Monday, 6 March 2023 at 23:08:23 UTC, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 4:19:07 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > >On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:37:16=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > >> On 2/28/2023 2:53 PM, William Hyde wrote:=20
> > > >> > On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:28:32=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire =
> > > >wrote:=20
> > >
> > > >> > William Hyde
> > > >> And the book with the blatant errors is ?=20
> > > >
> > > >"A long way to a small angry planet".
> > > >
> > > >Some aspects of it I quite liked. And it's a good title.
> > > >
> > > >My standard policy, of reading the negative reviews, failed me. People com=
> > > >plained about its
> > > >"wokeness", not about monitoring the risk of collision with objects in spac=
> > > >e by listening.
> > >
> > > She probably thought of SONAR, not realizing that acoustic energy needs
> > > a medium to propogate. Although her universe may have different rules
> > > than ours, like a physical ether.
> > I should have been more clear. She is talking about the captain, relaxing in
> > the ship, but literally listening for bangs. Small bang, no problem, loud
> > bang, problem. That gave me pause, but I forged on for another hundred
> > pages or so.
> Oh, so this is actual collisions. At interstellar speed.
> That bang on the spaceship hull. Well... are you saying
> you wouldn't be listening? Does the story imply that
> listening does any good? (I'm not contradicting myself.)

He is portrayed as a good captain, so in the book context listening
is the right thing to do.

I believe that the ship at the time was in orbit about a planet, so the chances of
collision are higher than in interstellar space, and the relative velocities
likely smaller.

Not enough to save the book, though.

William Hyde