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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

SubjectAuthor
* [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
|`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDaniel Goldsmith
| `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
|  +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
|  `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertJoy Beeson
|   +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertJames Nicoll
|   |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
|   | `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertRobert Carnegie
|   `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertWolfFan
`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertAndrew McDowell
 +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertAlan
 |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertWilliam Hyde
 | `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertAndrew McDowell
 +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
 `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDavid Johnston
  +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertJohn Halpenny
  |+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDavid Johnston
  |`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
  `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertChris Buckley
   +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertScott Lurndal
   +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertAlan
   |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertChris Buckley
   | +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertAndrew McDowell
   | | `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |  `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |   `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |    `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |     `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |      `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertScott Lurndal
   | |       ||+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertWolfFan
   | |       ||| `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
   | |       ||+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertWolfFan
   | |       ||||`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
   | |       |||| +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertScott Lurndal
   | |       |||| |+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertScott Lurndal
   | |       |||| ||+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertHamish Laws
   | |       |||| |||`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||| ||| +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertAlan
   | |       |||| ||| +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       |||| ||| `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertHamish Laws
   | |       |||| |||  `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertRobert Carnegie
   | |       |||| |||   `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       |||| |||    `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||| ||`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertKevrob
   | |       |||| || `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       |||| ||  |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  | +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       |||| ||  | |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  | | +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||| ||  | | |`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  | | `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  | |  `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  | |   `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||| ||  | `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |||| ||  |  `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |   `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
   | |       |||| ||  |    `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |     +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  |     |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||| ||  |     | +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
   | |       |||| ||  |     | |`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |     | +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  |     | |+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDorothy J Heydt
   | |       |||| ||  |     | ||+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  |     | |||+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       |||| ||  |     | ||||`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  |     | |||| `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       |||| ||  |     | |||+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertHamish Laws
   | |       |||| ||  |     | |||`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |||| ||  |     | ||`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |||| ||  |     | |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |     | | +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |     | | |`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |     | | `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |     | `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |||| ||  |     `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDavid Johnston
   | |       |||| ||  |      +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  |      `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |||| ||  +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertScott Lurndal
   | |       |||| ||  |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  | `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||  +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertKevrob
   | |       |||| ||  `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |||| |+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
   | |       |||| |+* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||| ||+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertChris Buckley
   | |       |||| ||`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbertpete...@gmail.com
   | |       |||| || `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||  `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDimensional Traveler
   | |       |||| ||   +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   | |       |||| ||   +* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertLynn McGuire
   | |       |||| ||   |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertScott Lurndal
   | |       |||| ||   +- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||| ||   `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertWilliam Hyde
   | |       |||| |`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertKevrob
   | |       |||| `- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       |||`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | |       ||`- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDorothy J Heydt
   | |       |+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertWolfFan
   | |       |+- Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertThe Horny Goat
   | |       |`* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDavid Johnston
   | |       `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertPaul S Person
   | `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertQuadibloc
   `* Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop DilbertDavid Johnston

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Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<er940ipqhflo2p9a5vbjmn2cqa9jse89ke@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 09:04:58 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 17:04 UTC

On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
<snippo mucho>
>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
>> websites like:
>>
>> USAToday:
>>
>><https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>
>> CNN:
>>
>><hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>
>> The Washington Post:
>>
>><https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>
>> Like those?
>
>Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
>
>I'll ask the readership here:
>How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
>the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?

I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
not have been trying to do so.

Trump's treatment of Zelensky, OTOH, was front and center whenever I
thought of the Ukraine.

I never wanted Trump removed, BTW; that would have left Pence in
charge, whose views are no better than Trump's but who is an
/effective/ leader, something Trump is not and never will be.

<snippo more>
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<v6a40il752vip1spngrb641v0os5iae5li@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 09:06:46 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 17:06 UTC

On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 14:45:19 -0700, David Johnston
<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-02 8:23 a.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>> On 2023-03-01, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-01 12:00 a.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>> There are many reasons why I should not comment on the details of this particular free speech issue, not least being that I have repeatedly stated that the problems of various subcultures in the US have no counterpart in the UK, where we have people diligently tracking down records of slave-owners, but not of former slaves (see various mangled and fact-checked quotes including "one Cartwright brought a slave from Russia and would scourge him; for which he was questioned; and it was resolved, that England was too pure an air for a slave to breathe in").
>>>>
>>>> I would like to comment on the general free speech issue - is it a good idea for somebody to lose their liveihood and their access to public debate because of the views that they have expressed? One of the risks of a system which allows this is that a privileged class of gate-keepers may wield power over the democratic process by silencing stories based on fact which would otherwise affect public policy, and even sway elections. Is there any evidence of this risk materialising? One example is the silencing of the Hunter Biden laptop story.
>>>
>>> The Hunter Biden laptop story wasn't silenced. Although I do know that
>>> a lot of people are upset they didn't get to see those dick pics.
>>
>> The story as a whole wasn't silenced, but certainly individual tellings of
>> it were removed and silenced, individual posts were removed and silenced,
>
>We were denied dick pics! This outrage will not stand!

Can I take it that which pictures are available depends on which
version (IIRC, there are at least three) of the contents of the drive
is being discussed.

That's a neat trick -- one device, one drive, three versions. Can you
spell "hoax"?
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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From: ala...@sabir.com (Chris Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: 3 Mar 2023 19:25:53 GMT
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 by: Chris Buckley - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 19:25 UTC

On 2023-03-03, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 14:45:19 -0700, David Johnston
><davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-03-02 8:23 a.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-01, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-01 12:00 a.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>> There are many reasons why I should not comment on the details of this particular free speech issue, not least being that I have repeatedly stated that the problems of various subcultures in the US have no counterpart in the UK, where we have people diligently tracking down records of slave-owners, but not of former slaves (see various mangled and fact-checked quotes including "one Cartwright brought a slave from Russia and would scourge him; for which he was questioned; and it was resolved, that England was too pure an air for a slave to breathe in").
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to comment on the general free speech issue - is it a good idea for somebody to lose their liveihood and their access to public debate because of the views that they have expressed? One of the risks of a system which allows this is that a privileged class of gate-keepers may wield power over the democratic process by silencing stories based on fact which would otherwise affect public policy, and even sway elections. Is there any evidence of this risk materialising? One example is the silencing of the Hunter Biden laptop story.
>>>>
>>>> The Hunter Biden laptop story wasn't silenced. Although I do know that
>>>> a lot of people are upset they didn't get to see those dick pics.
>>>
>>> The story as a whole wasn't silenced, but certainly individual tellings of
>>> it were removed and silenced, individual posts were removed and silenced,
>>
>>We were denied dick pics! This outrage will not stand!
>
> Can I take it that which pictures are available depends on which
> version (IIRC, there are at least three) of the contents of the drive
> is being discussed.
>
> That's a neat trick -- one device, one drive, three versions. Can you
> spell "hoax"?
Yes. Hoax. Your insinuation here is a complete hoax. You seem to take
great delight in insinuating things that you don't believe. I'm not
sure why you are that fond of deception.

Chris

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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 by: Andrew McDowell - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 19:29 UTC

On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05 PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>
> >On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> <snippo mucho>
> >> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
> >> websites like:
> >>
> >> USAToday:
> >>
> >><https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
> >>
> >> CNN:
> >>
> >><hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
> >>
> >> The Washington Post:
> >>
> >><https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
> >>
> >> Like those?
> >
> >Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
> >
> >I'll ask the readership here:
> >How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
> >the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
> >Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
> not have been trying to do so.
>
(trimmed)
Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of Cruz's surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence, least of all its classification.

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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From: davidjoh...@yahoo.com (David Johnston)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2023 21:57:18 -0700
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 by: David Johnston - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 04:57 UTC

On 2023-03-03 10:06 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 14:45:19 -0700, David Johnston
> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-02 8:23 a.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-01, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-01 12:00 a.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>> There are many reasons why I should not comment on the details of this particular free speech issue, not least being that I have repeatedly stated that the problems of various subcultures in the US have no counterpart in the UK, where we have people diligently tracking down records of slave-owners, but not of former slaves (see various mangled and fact-checked quotes including "one Cartwright brought a slave from Russia and would scourge him; for which he was questioned; and it was resolved, that England was too pure an air for a slave to breathe in").
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to comment on the general free speech issue - is it a good idea for somebody to lose their liveihood and their access to public debate because of the views that they have expressed? One of the risks of a system which allows this is that a privileged class of gate-keepers may wield power over the democratic process by silencing stories based on fact which would otherwise affect public policy, and even sway elections. Is there any evidence of this risk materialising? One example is the silencing of the Hunter Biden laptop story.
>>>>
>>>> The Hunter Biden laptop story wasn't silenced. Although I do know that
>>>> a lot of people are upset they didn't get to see those dick pics.
>>>
>>> The story as a whole wasn't silenced, but certainly individual tellings of
>>> it were removed and silenced, individual posts were removed and silenced,
>>
>> We were denied dick pics! This outrage will not stand!
>
> Can I take it that which pictures are available depends on which
> version (IIRC, there are at least three) of the contents of the drive
> is being discussed.

There was supposedly more than one drive although the others were
discarded with just some data retrieved.

>
> That's a neat trick -- one device, one drive, three versions. Can you
> spell "hoax"?

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2023 08:29:36 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 16:29 UTC

On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
<mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:

>On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>> <snippo mucho>
>> >> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
>> >> websites like:
>> >>
>> >> USAToday:
>> >>
>> >><https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>> >>
>> >> CNN:
>> >>
>> >><hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>> >>
>> >> The Washington Post:
>> >>
>> >><https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>> >>
>> >> Like those?
>> >
>> >Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
>> >
>> >I'll ask the readership here:
>> >How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
>> >the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>> >Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
>> not have been trying to do so.
>>
>(trimmed)
>Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of Cruz's
>surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence, least of all its classification.

None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 16:31 UTC

On 3 Mar 2023 19:25:53 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-03, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 14:45:19 -0700, David Johnston
>><davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2023-03-02 8:23 a.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-01, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-03-01 12:00 a.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>>> There are many reasons why I should not comment on the details of this particular free speech issue, not least being that I have repeatedly stated that the problems of various subcultures in the US have no counterpart in the UK, where we have people diligently tracking down records of slave-owners, but not of former slaves (see various mangled and fact-checked quotes including "one Cartwright brought a slave from Russia and would scourge him; for which he was questioned; and it was resolved, that England was too pure an air for a slave to breathe in").
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to comment on the general free speech issue - is it a good idea for somebody to lose their liveihood and their access to public debate because of the views that they have expressed? One of the risks of a system which allows this is that a privileged class of gate-keepers may wield power over the democratic process by silencing stories based on fact which would otherwise affect public policy, and even sway elections. Is there any evidence of this risk materialising? One example is the silencing of the Hunter Biden laptop story.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Hunter Biden laptop story wasn't silenced. Although I do know that
>>>>> a lot of people are upset they didn't get to see those dick pics.
>>>>
>>>> The story as a whole wasn't silenced, but certainly individual tellings of
>>>> it were removed and silenced, individual posts were removed and silenced,
>>>
>>>We were denied dick pics! This outrage will not stand!
>>
>> Can I take it that which pictures are available depends on which
>> version (IIRC, there are at least three) of the contents of the drive
>> is being discussed.
>>
>> That's a neat trick -- one device, one drive, three versions. Can you
>> spell "hoax"?
>Yes. Hoax. Your insinuation here is a complete hoax. You seem to take
>great delight in insinuating things that you don't believe. I'm not
>sure why you are that fond of deception.

IIRC, it is the original "discoverer" of "the laptop" that has stated
publicly that he has provided multiple versions (not copies,
versions).

But I could be mis-remembering, or the source might be ... Fox or
someone even less reliable.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 19:16 UTC

On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>
>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>
>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>
>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> Like those?
>>>>
>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
>>>>
>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>
>> (trimmed)
>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of Cruz's
>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence, least of all its classification.
>
> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
trying to get anything to stick. Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can use
the appearance of it to cause is the point.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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 by: Chris Buckley - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 21:10 UTC

On 2023-03-04, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> On 3 Mar 2023 19:25:53 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-03-03, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 14:45:19 -0700, David Johnston
>>><davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2023-03-02 8:23 a.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-03-01, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-03-01 12:00 a.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>> There are many reasons why I should not comment on the details of this particular free speech issue, not least being that I have repeatedly stated that the problems of various subcultures in the US have no counterpart in the UK, where we have people diligently tracking down records of slave-owners, but not of former slaves (see various mangled and fact-checked quotes including "one Cartwright brought a slave from Russia and would scourge him; for which he was questioned; and it was resolved, that England was too pure an air for a slave to breathe in").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to comment on the general free speech issue - is it a good idea for somebody to lose their liveihood and their access to public debate because of the views that they have expressed? One of the risks of a system which allows this is that a privileged class of gate-keepers may wield power over the democratic process by silencing stories based on fact which would otherwise affect public policy, and even sway elections. Is there any evidence of this risk materialising? One example is the silencing of the Hunter Biden laptop story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Hunter Biden laptop story wasn't silenced. Although I do know that
>>>>>> a lot of people are upset they didn't get to see those dick pics.
>>>>>
>>>>> The story as a whole wasn't silenced, but certainly individual tellings of
>>>>> it were removed and silenced, individual posts were removed and silenced,
>>>>
>>>>We were denied dick pics! This outrage will not stand!
>>>
>>> Can I take it that which pictures are available depends on which
>>> version (IIRC, there are at least three) of the contents of the drive
>>> is being discussed.
>>>
>>> That's a neat trick -- one device, one drive, three versions. Can you
>>> spell "hoax"?
>>Yes. Hoax. Your insinuation here is a complete hoax. You seem to take
>>great delight in insinuating things that you don't believe. I'm not
>>sure why you are that fond of deception.
>
> IIRC, it is the original "discoverer" of "the laptop" that has stated
> publicly that he has provided multiple versions (not copies,
> versions).
>
> But I could be mis-remembering, or the source might be ... Fox or
> someone even less reliable.

All of which doesn't increase the likelihood of a h-o-a-x one bit.

As I said, I'm not sure why you suggest all these liberal conspiracy
theories when it's clear you don't believe them.

I don't for an instance think that you now believe Hunter's laptop
is a hoax.

Chris

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2023 08:46:16 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 16:46 UTC

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index..html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>
>>> (trimmed)
>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>Cruz's
>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence, least of all its classification.
>>
>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>
>It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
>trying to get anything to stick. Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can use
>the appearance of it to cause is the point.

I agree with that analysis of the situation.

But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
themselves in the foot, so to speak?
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<trh90i9r97sobi6smu6l0t3e1qe4sbk4ud@4ax.com>

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Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
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 by: Paul S Person - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 16:48 UTC

On 4 Mar 2023 21:10:30 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-04, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> On 3 Mar 2023 19:25:53 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2023-03-03, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 14:45:19 -0700, David Johnston
>>>><davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2023-03-02 8:23 a.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-03-01, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-03-01 12:00 a.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>>> There are many reasons why I should not comment on the details of this particular free speech issue, not least being that I have repeatedly stated that the problems of various subcultures in the US have no counterpart in the UK, where we have people diligently tracking down records of slave-owners, but not of former slaves (see various mangled and fact-checked quotes including "one Cartwright brought a slave from Russia and would scourge him; for which he was questioned; and it was resolved, that England was too pure an air for a slave to breathe in").
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would like to comment on the general free speech issue - is it a good idea for somebody to lose their liveihood and their access to public debate because of the views that they have expressed? One of the risks of a system which allows this is that a privileged class of gate-keepers may wield power over the democratic process by silencing stories based on fact which would otherwise affect public policy, and even sway elections. Is there any evidence of this risk materialising? One example is the silencing of the Hunter Biden laptop story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Hunter Biden laptop story wasn't silenced. Although I do know that
>>>>>>> a lot of people are upset they didn't get to see those dick pics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The story as a whole wasn't silenced, but certainly individual tellings of
>>>>>> it were removed and silenced, individual posts were removed and silenced,
>>>>>
>>>>>We were denied dick pics! This outrage will not stand!
>>>>
>>>> Can I take it that which pictures are available depends on which
>>>> version (IIRC, there are at least three) of the contents of the drive
>>>> is being discussed.
>>>>
>>>> That's a neat trick -- one device, one drive, three versions. Can you
>>>> spell "hoax"?
>>>Yes. Hoax. Your insinuation here is a complete hoax. You seem to take
>>>great delight in insinuating things that you don't believe. I'm not
>>>sure why you are that fond of deception.
>>
>> IIRC, it is the original "discoverer" of "the laptop" that has stated
>> publicly that he has provided multiple versions (not copies,
>> versions).
>>
>> But I could be mis-remembering, or the source might be ... Fox or
>> someone even less reliable.
>
>All of which doesn't increase the likelihood of a h-o-a-x one bit.
>
>As I said, I'm not sure why you suggest all these liberal conspiracy
>theories when it's clear you don't believe them.
>
>I don't for an instance think that you now believe Hunter's laptop
>is a hoax.

I have no doubt he had a laptop. Possibly more than one, if only
sequentially.

But that the laptop in question was his, or that any of the various
versions of the contents are real, is a different issue entirely.

And the relevance of it to anything that matters is even more obscure.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<tu2ibv$1d304$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=85919&group=rec.arts.sf.written#85919

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 17:09 UTC

On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>
>>>> (trimmed)
>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>> Cruz's
>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence, least of all its classification.
>>>
>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>
>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
>> trying to get anything to stick. Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can use
>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>
> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>
> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
Depends on who you ask. The MAGA base believes them but then the base
believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
to be whipped up to vote Republican. The main effect appears to be
whipping them up to do more than just vote.
Everyone else? Probably very little effect other than the casualties
suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<k6m627F94krU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ala...@sabir.com (Chris Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: 6 Mar 2023 12:53:27 GMT
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 by: Chris Buckley - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 12:53 UTC

On 2023-03-05, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> On 4 Mar 2023 21:10:30 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-03-04, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 3 Mar 2023 19:25:53 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2023-03-03, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 14:45:19 -0700, David Johnston
>>>>><davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 2023-03-02 8:23 a.m., Chris Buckley wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-03-01, David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-01 12:00 a.m., Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>>>> There are many reasons why I should not comment on the details of this particular free speech issue, not least being that I have repeatedly stated that the problems of various subcultures in the US have no counterpart in the UK, where we have people diligently tracking down records of slave-owners, but not of former slaves (see various mangled and fact-checked quotes including "one Cartwright brought a slave from Russia and would scourge him; for which he was questioned; and it was resolved, that England was too pure an air for a slave to breathe in").
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would like to comment on the general free speech issue - is it a good idea for somebody to lose their liveihood and their access to public debate because of the views that they have expressed? One of the risks of a system which allows this is that a privileged class of gate-keepers may wield power over the democratic process by silencing stories based on fact which would otherwise affect public policy, and even sway elections. Is there any evidence of this risk materialising? One example is the silencing of the Hunter Biden laptop story.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Hunter Biden laptop story wasn't silenced. Although I do know that
>>>>>>>> a lot of people are upset they didn't get to see those dick pics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The story as a whole wasn't silenced, but certainly individual tellings of
>>>>>>> it were removed and silenced, individual posts were removed and silenced,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We were denied dick pics! This outrage will not stand!
>>>>>
>>>>> Can I take it that which pictures are available depends on which
>>>>> version (IIRC, there are at least three) of the contents of the drive
>>>>> is being discussed.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a neat trick -- one device, one drive, three versions. Can you
>>>>> spell "hoax"?
>>>>Yes. Hoax. Your insinuation here is a complete hoax. You seem to take
>>>>great delight in insinuating things that you don't believe. I'm not
>>>>sure why you are that fond of deception.
>>>
>>> IIRC, it is the original "discoverer" of "the laptop" that has stated
>>> publicly that he has provided multiple versions (not copies,
>>> versions).
>>>
>>> But I could be mis-remembering, or the source might be ... Fox or
>>> someone even less reliable.
>>
>>All of which doesn't increase the likelihood of a h-o-a-x one bit.
>>
>>As I said, I'm not sure why you suggest all these liberal conspiracy
>>theories when it's clear you don't believe them.
>>
>>I don't for an instance think that you now believe Hunter's laptop
>>is a hoax.
>
> I have no doubt he had a laptop. Possibly more than one, if only
> sequentially.
>
> But that the laptop in question was his, or that any of the various
> versions of the contents are real, is a different issue entirely.
>
> And the relevance of it to anything that matters is even more obscure.

I admite I am much more concerned about the censorship and deliberate
disinformation aspects than what the contents of the laptop show.

But I remain bemused by your objections here and elsewhere to the
Republicans "throwing spaghetti against the wall" when you spend
so much time and posts here spreading disinformation that you
don't believe in.

Chris

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<u38c0ilht6fqa583j1ep6kpoev6sio2pr7@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2023 09:21:19 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 17:21 UTC

On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index..html>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>>> Cruz's
>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence, least of all its classification.
>>>>
>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>
>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
>>> trying to get anything to stick. Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can use
>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>
>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>
>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>
>Depends on who you ask. The MAGA base believes them but then the base
>believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
>to be whipped up to vote Republican. The main effect appears to be
>whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>
>Everyone else? Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.

Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".

This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
local problem.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<tu5iii$2207$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=85949&group=rec.arts.sf.written#85949

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2023 12:31:16 -0800
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 20:31 UTC

On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on major news
>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even after) that
>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was VP was
>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents responsible
>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this policy
>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should certainly
>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence, least of all its classification.
>>>>>
>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>
>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
>>>> trying to get anything to stick. Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can use
>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>
>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>
>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>
>> Depends on who you ask. The MAGA base believes them but then the base
>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
>> to be whipped up to vote Republican. The main effect appears to be
>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>
>> Everyone else? Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>
> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>
> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
> local problem.
What's this "may, eventually" bit? Right wing extremist groups have
long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<tu5mf4$2ejs$6@dont-email.me>

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2023 15:37:42 -0600
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 21:37 UTC

On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on
>>>>>>>>>> major news
>>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence
>>>>>>>>> agencies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even after)
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was
>>>>>>>> VP was
>>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this
>>>>>>>> policy
>>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should
>>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
>>>>>>> episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz
>>>>>>> claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than
>>>>>>> exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign
>>>>>>> businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really
>>>>>>> buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried
>>>>>>> to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to
>>>>>>> Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of
>>>>>>> how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of
>>>>>>> this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had
>>>>>>> produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales
>>>>>>> brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general
>>>>>>> professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a
>>>>>>> cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given
>>>>>>> to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and
>>>>>>> of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence,
>>>>>>> least of all its classification.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
>>>>> trying to get anything to stick.  Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can
>>>>> use
>>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>>
>>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
>>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>>
>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then the base
>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>
>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>
>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>
>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>> local problem.
>
> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups have
> long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
> are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.

Those numbers are patently false. The single largest terrorist event in
the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New York City who
killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several billion dollars of
real estate property and air planes in a single event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

There are many other events with deaths and property destruction by
muslims in the USA. Many.

If you want to extend the time period to 100 years then we can talk
about Pearl Harbor.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<GztNL.209688$ZnFc.9365@fx41.iad>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=85961&group=rec.arts.sf.written#85961

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From: sco...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Reply-To: slp53@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2023 22:12:54 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 2518
 by: Scott Lurndal - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 22:12 UTC

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then the base
>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>
>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>
>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>>> local problem.
>>
>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups have
>> long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
>> are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.
>
>Those numbers are patently false.

Only if you don't actually read _WHAT WAS WRITTEN_. "#1 domestic terrorist problem"
is what was written; as 9/11 wasn't a domestic terrorism event, it's not
relevent to WHAT WAS WRITTEN ABOVE.

All religions have (or have had) those to whom terrorist
techniques are not anathema when in support of their
religion (Irgun comes to mind, for example); no need to single out
one or the other.

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<rr4Dss.1MHs@kithrup.com>

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Message-ID: <rr4Dss.1MHs@kithrup.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2023 22:14:52 GMT
References: <0ebfc6fe-43e4-4bb5-b9b5-45ebcf986606n@googlegroups.com> <u38c0ilht6fqa583j1ep6kpoev6sio2pr7@4ax.com> <tu5iii$2207$1@dont-email.me> <tu5mf4$2ejs$6@dont-email.me>
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 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 22:14 UTC

In article <tu5mf4$2ejs$6@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on
>>>>>>>>>>> major news
>>>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
><https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
><hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
><https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence
>>>>>>>>>> agencies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even after)
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
>>>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was
>>>>>>>>> VP was
>>>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this
>>>>>>>>> policy
>>>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should
>>>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
>>>>>>>> episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz
>>>>>>>> claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than
>>>>>>>> exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign
>>>>>>>> businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really
>>>>>>>> buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried
>>>>>>>> to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to
>>>>>>>> Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of
>>>>>>>> how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of
>>>>>>>> this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had
>>>>>>>> produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales
>>>>>>>> brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general
>>>>>>>> professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a
>>>>>>>> cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given
>>>>>>>> to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and
>>>>>>>> of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>>>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence,
>>>>>>>> least of all its classification.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
>>>>>> trying to get anything to stick.  Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>>>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
>>>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>>>
>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then the base
>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>
>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>
>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>>> local problem.
>>
>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups have
>> long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
>> are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.
>
>Those numbers are patently false. The single largest terrorist event in
>the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New York City who
>killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several billion dollars of
>real estate property and air planes in a single event.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
(Hal Heydt)
Hmmm... Depends on whether or not you consider said Muslim
extremists to be right wing or not. (Alternatively, that attack
was not by *domestic* terrorists.)

>If you want to extend the time period to 100 years then we can talk
>about Pearl Harbor.

I think Perl Harbor in generally considered to be a *military*
attack rather than a terrorist attack, much less a domestic
terrorist attack.

Personally, I classify the attack on Pearl Harbor as a failed
attempt to finesse then-prevailing rules of engagement as the
Japanese goverment intent was to deliver an ultimatum/de facto
declaration of war before the attack but too late to take any
action against it.

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<tu5p2r$33mj$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=85964&group=rec.arts.sf.written#85964

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2023 16:22:19 -0600
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 22:22 UTC

On 3/6/2023 4:12 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>
>>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then the base
>>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
>>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>>
>>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>>
>>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>>>> local problem.
>>>
>>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups have
>>> long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
>>> are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.
>>
>> Those numbers are patently false.
>
> Only if you don't actually read _WHAT WAS WRITTEN_. "#1 domestic terrorist problem"
> is what was written; as 9/11 wasn't a domestic terrorism event, it's not
> relevent to WHAT WAS WRITTEN ABOVE.
>
> All religions have (or have had) those to whom terrorist
> techniques are not anathema when in support of their
> religion (Irgun comes to mind, for example); no need to single out
> one or the other.

Ah, this is a gotcha statement with a carefully designed criteria to
ignore reality. Gotcha.

Lynn

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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 by: WolfFan - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 13:36 UTC

On Mar 6, 2023, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <tu5mf4$2ejs$6@dont-email.me>):

> On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> > > On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> > > <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> > > > > <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
> > > > > > > <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley<al...@sabir.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > <snippo mucho>
> > > > > > > > > > > So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported on
> > > > > > > > > > > major news
> > > > > > > > > > > websites like:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > USAToday:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-di
> > > > > > > > > > > sinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > CNN:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation
> > > > > > > > > > > /index.html>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The Washington Post:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-
> > > > > > > > > > > laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story
> > > > > > > > > > > .html>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Like those?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former intelligence
> > > > > > > > > > agencies.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'll ask the readership here:
> > > > > > > > > > How many of you were aware before the election (or even after)
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the Hunter
> > > > > > > > > > Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
> > > > > > > > > I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden was
> > > > > > > > > VP was
> > > > > > > > > of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
> > > > > > > > > responsible
> > > > > > > > > for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows this
> > > > > > > > > policy
> > > > > > > > > in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should
> > > > > > > > > certainly
> > > > > > > > > not have been trying to do so.
> > > > > > > > (trimmed)
> > > > > > > > Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
> > > > > > > > episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves. Cruz
> > > > > > > > claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less than
> > > > > > > > exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the foreign
> > > > > > > > businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were not really
> > > > > > > > buying his skills, but his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried
> > > > > > > > to show that there was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to
> > > > > > > > Biden passing on these payments. There is also the question of
> > > > > > > > how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of
> > > > > > > > this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had
> > > > > > > > produced I think as a combined initial piece of work and sales
> > > > > > > > brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general
> > > > > > > > professionalism of the report suggested that this was in fact a
> > > > > > > > cut and paste job from something like a background briefing given
> > > > > > > > to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise of the report and
> > > > > > > > of any sections cut and pasted was a subject of
> > > > > > Cruz's
> > > > > > > > surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's existence,
> > > > > > > > least of all its classification.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the wall
> > > > > > trying to get anything to stick. Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
> > > > > > point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they can
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > the appearance of it to cause is the point.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with that analysis of the situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
> > > > > themselves in the foot, so to speak?
> > > >
> > > > Depends on who you ask. The MAGA base believes them but then the base
> > > > believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
> > > > to be whipped up to vote Republican. The main effect appears to be
> > > > whipping them up to do more than just vote.
> > > >
> > > > Everyone else? Probably very little effect other than the casualties
> > > > suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
> > >
> > > Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
> > >
> > > This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
> > > local problem.
> >
> > What's this "may, eventually" bit? Right wing extremist groups have
> > long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
> > are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.
>
> Those numbers are patently false. The single largest terrorist event in
> the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New York City who
> killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several billion dollars of
> real estate property and air planes in a single event.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

Not a _domestic_ terror incident.

#1 _domestic_ terror event would be Timmy McVeigh blowing up the Federal
Building in Oklahoma City. That’s way above terror events such as the
Weather Underground and Puerto Rican Nationalists, who are fighting it out
for #2 behind right-wingers. And, yes, Timmy-boy was, by far, the #1 domestic
terror boy.
>
>
> There are many other events with deaths and property destruction by
> muslims in the USA. Many.

Not _domestic_ terror events.
>
>
> If you want to extend the time period to 100 years then we can talk
> about Pearl Harbor.

Not a terror event.
>
>
> Lynn

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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 by: WolfFan - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 13:40 UTC

On Mar 6, 2023, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <tu5p2r$33mj$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 3/6/2023 4:12 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
> > > On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > > > On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> >
> > > > > > Depends on who you ask. The MAGA base believes them but then the base
> > > > > > believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
> > > > > > to be whipped up to vote Republican. The main effect appears to be
> > > > > > whipping them up to do more than just vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Everyone else? Probably very little effect other than the casualties
> > > > > > suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
> > > > >
> > > > > Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
> > > > >
> > > > > This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
> > > > > local problem.
> > > >
> > > > What's this "may, eventually" bit? Right wing extremist groups have
> > > > long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
> > > > are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.
> > >
> > > Those numbers are patently false.
> >
> > Only if you don't actually read _WHAT WAS WRITTEN_. "#1 domestic terrorist
> > problem"
> > is what was written; as 9/11 wasn't a domestic terrorism event, it's not
> > relevent to WHAT WAS WRITTEN ABOVE.
> >
> > All religions have (or have had) those to whom terrorist
> > techniques are not anathema when in support of their
> > religion (Irgun comes to mind, for example); no need to single out
> > one or the other.
>
> Ah, this is a gotcha statement with a carefully designed criteria to
> ignore reality. Gotcha.

No. It was a statement about _domestic_ terror events. And it was perfectly
factual. Timmy McVeigh was a domestic terrorist. He was right-wing. He blew
up a Federal Building, killing _children_ in the day-care center, for
political purposes. It doesn’t get any more domestic terror than that. Even
the mad-dog Puerto Ricans didn’t blow up day-care centers.
>
>
> Lynn

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 14:33 UTC

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 3:15:31 PM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> All religions have (or have had) those to whom terrorist
> techniques are not anathema when in support of their
> religion (Irgun comes to mind, for example); no need to single out
> one or the other.

This is true, but in the context of 9/11, as opposed to domestic
terrorism, it could be considered misleading. Or rather, in the
context of the Munich Olympics, the Achille Lauro, 9/11, and
numerous other incidents of that nature.

It certainly appears that terror attacks from Muslim extremists
have been a much bigger problem for Western industrialized
countries than terror attacks related to any other religious faith
for quite some time now.

John Savard

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

<0001HW.29B78C4001FFDB2E700006FD738F@news.supernews.com>

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Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
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 by: WolfFan - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 15:14 UTC

On Mar 7, 2023, Quadibloc wrote
(in article<707e1ea9-4b71-453d-9212-005e2e1d9c62n@googlegroups.com>):

> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 3:15:31 PM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> > All religions have (or have had) those to whom terrorist
> > techniques are not anathema when in support of their
> > religion (Irgun comes to mind, for example); no need to single out
> > one or the other.
>
> This is true, but in the context of 9/11, as opposed to domestic
> terrorism, it could be considered misleading. Or rather, in the
> context of the Munich Olympics, the Achille Lauro, 9/11, and
> numerous other incidents of that nature.
>
> It certainly appears that terror attacks from Muslim extremists
> have been a much bigger problem for Western industrialized
> countries than terror attacks related to any other religious faith
> for quite some time now.
>
> John Savard

Only if you don’t count terror attacks mounted by, say, the IRA&
associated murderers. The IRA has cooled down, lately, but can easily boil
over again.

And, of course, you’re restricting the to ‘western industrialized
countries’. Assorted religious nutjobs, nominally Hindu and Buddhist, are
still doing naughty things in India, for just one example. (India has Muslim
nutjobs, too, of course; the Indian Muslim nutjobs and Hindi nutjobs feed off
each other; the Buddhists are self-starting. And don’t like the Muslims,
either. It’s a legacy of the Mughals.)

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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Subject: Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:38 UTC

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:41:00 AM UTC-5, WolfFan wrote:
> On Mar 6, 2023, Lynn McGuire wrote
> (in article <tu5p2r$33mj$1...@dont-email.me>):
> > On 3/6/2023 4:12 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > > Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > > > > On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> > >
> > > > > > > Depends on who you ask. The MAGA base believes them but then the base
> > > > > > > believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so doesn't need
> > > > > > > to be whipped up to vote Republican. The main effect appears to be
> > > > > > > whipping them up to do more than just vote.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Everyone else? Probably very little effect other than the casualties
> > > > > > > suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
> > > > > > local problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > What's this "may, eventually" bit? Right wing extremist groups have
> > > > > long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US and
> > > > > are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in the US.
> > > >
> > > > Those numbers are patently false.
> > >
> > > Only if you don't actually read _WHAT WAS WRITTEN_. "#1 domestic terrorist
> > > problem"
> > > is what was written; as 9/11 wasn't a domestic terrorism event, it's not
> > > relevent to WHAT WAS WRITTEN ABOVE.
> > >
> > > All religions have (or have had) those to whom terrorist
> > > techniques are not anathema when in support of their
> > > religion (Irgun comes to mind, for example); no need to single out
> > > one or the other.
> >
> > Ah, this is a gotcha statement with a carefully designed criteria to
> > ignore reality. Gotcha.
> No. It was a statement about _domestic_ terror events. And it was perfectly
> factual. Timmy McVeigh was a domestic terrorist. He was right-wing. He blew
> up a Federal Building, killing _children_ in the day-care center, for
> political purposes. It doesn’t get any more domestic terror than that. Even
> the mad-dog Puerto Ricans didn’t blow up day-care centers.

Muslim-American domestic terrorism exists, but its at a very low level, and dropping.

https://tcths.sanford.duke.edu/2021/01/14/muslim-american-involvement-with-violent-extremism-2001-2020/

pt

Re: [OT] Newspapers Across the Country Drop Dilbert

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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:44 UTC

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 10:14:20 AM UTC-5, WolfFan wrote:
> On Mar 7, 2023, Quadibloc wrote
> (in article<707e1ea9-4b71-453d...@googlegroups.com>):
> > On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 3:15:31 PM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >
> > > All religions have (or have had) those to whom terrorist
> > > techniques are not anathema when in support of their
> > > religion (Irgun comes to mind, for example); no need to single out
> > > one or the other.
> >
> > This is true, but in the context of 9/11, as opposed to domestic
> > terrorism, it could be considered misleading. Or rather, in the
> > context of the Munich Olympics, the Achille Lauro, 9/11, and
> > numerous other incidents of that nature.
> >
> > It certainly appears that terror attacks from Muslim extremists
> > have been a much bigger problem for Western industrialized
> > countries than terror attacks related to any other religious faith
> > for quite some time now.
> >
> > John Savard
> Only if you don’t count terror attacks mounted by, say, the IRA&
> associated murderers. The IRA has cooled down, lately, but can easily boil
> over again.

Wikipedia finds 20 Muslim terrorist attacks in the EU during 2014-2020, killing
386 people.

Not trivial. The US has actually managed much better.

pt

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