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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

SubjectAuthor
* Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Tony Nance
+* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Ahasuerus
|`* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Tony Nance
| `* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Ahasuerus
|  +* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Lynn McGuire
|  |`* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Ahasuerus
|  | +* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Ahasuerus
|  | |`- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Robert Carnegie
|  | `* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Lynn McGuire
|  |  +* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023William Hyde
|  |  |`* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Tony Nance
|  |  | `* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Jay E. Morris
|  |  |  +- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023pete...@gmail.com
|  |  |  `- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Paul S Person
|  |  +- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Dimensional Traveler
|  |  `- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Paul S Person
|  `* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Tony Nance
|   `- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Ahasuerus
`* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Andrew McDowell
 `* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Lynn McGuire
  `* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Tony Nance
   `* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
    +- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Lynn McGuire
    +* Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Robert Woodward
    |`- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
    `- Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023Andrew McDowell

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Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
From: tonynanc...@gmail.com (Tony Nance)
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 by: Tony Nance - Tue, 7 Mar 2023 20:29 UTC

Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

I think there are no spoilers, not even minor ones. If something
does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the book in question
and is front-and-center.

Books are listed in reverse chronological order from how I read them,
using a very primitive rating system:
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse

I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.

Highlight - Probably Project Hail Mary, but a couple others are close

Lowlight - Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al.,
and it’s not even close

Here’s a quick summary of what’s more in-depth below:

February
(++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
(+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [anthology]
(++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
(++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
(++) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate]
(+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for
P&P immediately above)
(++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
(++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
(+++) Dragon Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 15th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 16th I’ve read]
(+++) Ghost Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 14th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 15th I’ve read]
(- - -) Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al. - Rauch

January
(+++) Penric’s Labors - Bujold
(+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
(++) Magnus Ridolph - Vance
(++) Needle - Hal Clement
(++) Dreadful Company - Shaw [Greta Helsing #2]
(+++) Cast in Courtlight - Sagara [Elantra #2]
(++ -) The Lodge of the Lynx - Katherine Kurtz & Deborah Turner Harris [Adept #2]

Now Reading:
Long work - Leviathan Falls - Corey [Expanse #9]
Collection - Issac Asimov Presents the Best Science Fiction Firsts [ed. by Asimov, Waugh, and Greenberg]
======================================================February
(++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
It turns out the seemingly different issues that Greta & company dealt
with in volumes 1 and 2 are actually related and part of a bigger scheme.
The returning characters develop reasonably and in ways faithful to the
previous books. But this volume…the presentation was scattered, especially
the first 2/3 of the book, in the sense that the characters were in several
different places, and each location got 3-5 pages worth of update within
each chapter. On a more global scale, there was kind of a “kitchen sink”
feel to the whole thing. So far this is the last volume in the series - I don’t
know if I’d read a 4th one or not.

(+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [collection]
Though I really enjoy Martin’s writing in general, I found this collection
to be rather disappointing overall. There are six novellas/novelettes, and
I’d already read the famous “A Song For Lya” (which I did not enjoy the
first time I read it, and it was worse this second time). The title story is
excellent, and the other 4…eh. Two of them could have been written by
early Stephen King, which is fine, but not great.

(++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
AND
(++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
I picked up this duology because I so very much enjoyed
The Deed of Paksennarion. The first (Surrender None)
tells the story of Gird, and it was significantly better than
the second, which focuses on the story of Luap. The second
is well done and of similar quality, but since Luap is a pretty
flawed character, it makes for less enjoyable reading. Both
are well worth reading - not as good as Deed… of course,
but that’s a very high bar.

(+++ -) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate - sequel to Template]
AND
(+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for P&P)
Former rasfw participant Matt Hughes writes very Vance-like novels,
and I find them very enjoyable. I seldom re-read novels, but when
I started P&P and couldn’t remember squat, I decided to re-read
Template - great idea (yay me!), as Template was very good,
especially for a re-read. Template introduces us to Conn Labro, who
leads a sheltered and narrowly-focused life as a duelist on planet
Thrais. He comes into possession of a “bearer’s deed”, but it is
not at all clear what it’s a deed to. After surviving two attempts
on his life, he decides to go off-world to find out, leading to many
adventures and discoveries. The sequel P&P picks up right where
Template leaves off. And while P&P is also good, I think it falls
a little short of Template, mostly because there’s an abrupt transition
in the middle of the book that could have been smoother and/or more
believable. Still very fine reading.

(++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
After the complete disaster that the previous novel turned out to be
(possibly related to being the only co-written MHI novel?), this was a
welcome return to the normal tone and character portrayals of the
MHI canon. Also fun to have Owen as the protagonist. Lots of snark,
gonzo situations involving …well…monsters and monster hunting.
This one sees Owen & MHI in general caught between two ancient
powerful enemies. We meet a few new characters and learn something
significant about old nemesis Stricken. If you liked MHI 1-6, you’ll like
this one.

(++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
& mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
(off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
the second one.

(+++) Dragon Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden]
AND
(+++) Ghost Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden]
This is a duology focused on Theo Waitley, and along the way she gets
pulled into the Liaden culture & problems in very deep and significant
ways. We get to see a lot more of Val Con & Miri, as well as some
Daav & Aelliana. There are true cliffhangers at the end of Ghost Ship,
so I continued right into Dragon Ship. These are both very good
Liaden books, which is almost a redundancy to say, given how the
books in this universe are of such consistently high quality. Definitely
looking forward to picking up the next one(s).

(- - -) Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al. - Rauch
AVOID AVOID AVOID
Folks, this one reminded me why I swore off “impulse buying” at
bookstores long ago, and I regret weakening/forgetting to pick up
this one. There I was in a brick&mortar store and this surprise of
a book was there. Joy! I loved the Buckaroo Banzai movie and its
novelization - and both of those were written by the same guy who
wrote this very book. What could go wrong?
And hence, I AM AN IDIOT. Had I spent 2 minutes checking out
reviews I would have avoided this bloated, disheveled, immature,
rambling mess of a book. Where was the editor? There’s a mediocre
novella hiding inside this terrible 600-pager. Heck, simply deleting the
first 200 pages would improve this book from “god-awful” to “awful”.
AVOID AVOID AVOID

January
(+++) Penric’s Labors - Bujold
Three very enjoyable novellas that see Penric & Desdemona
evolving & growing, and in more than a little peril sometimes as well.
In the 3rd of the three, Penric is married and has a young child, and
he is becoming more known by the world at large - which is both
understandable and rather uncomfortable for him.

(+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. (To be clear: This book
has nothing at all to do with The Mrtian, except the author.) Science
puzzles galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
“first contact” scenario.

(++) Magnus Ridolph - Vance
This is a collection of 10 stories set in one of Vance’s space-faring futures.
it’s not specifically Gaean Reach, but it would comfortably fit there.
Ridolph is a Sherlock-type character in the first 6-7 stories, but sort of
devolves into a more vengeful type in the last 3-4 stories. The last two
stories are also somewhat farcical.

(++) Needle - Hal Clement
As mentioned here by many, I agree that this is one of Clement’s
best. An alien detective has chased a criminal fugitive to Earth
and has to find him - complicating factors being that both aliens
are symbiotic/shape-shifting and that Earth has no idea these
aliens exist. It’s very well thought out, and having a 14-yr-old
co-protagonist was well done. Characters could get stuck, be
incorrect, have to think things out, learn, etc.

(++) Dreadful Company - Shaw [Greta Helsing #2]
Greta & Ruthven travel together to Paris, and Greta gets kidnapped by
a vampire with a grudge against Ruthven. Varney comes to Paris to help
Ruthven orchestrate & implement Greta’s rescue. In the meantime,
something is disturbing the metaphysical plane in Paris, and it seems to
be related to Greta’s kidnappers as well. We are introduced to some
interesting new characters, and by the end “Greta’s gang” has expanded.
Not great, but good enough that I’ll read #3. (which I did, in February)


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
From: ahasue...@email.com (Ahasuerus)
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 by: Ahasuerus - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 14:14 UTC

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
[snip-snip]
> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
> “first contact” scenario. [snip]

The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
cringey humans.

Clearly humans ruin everything!

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
From: tonynanc...@gmail.com (Tony Nance)
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 by: Tony Nance - Thu, 9 Mar 2023 21:18 UTC

On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> [snip-snip]
> > (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> > This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
> > and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
> > galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
> > it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
> > “first contact” scenario. [snip]
>
> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
> cringey humans.
>
> Clearly humans ruin everything!

Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
Tony
[1] Except when they don't.

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
From: ahasue...@email.com (Ahasuerus)
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 by: Ahasuerus - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 00:11 UTC

On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> > [snip-snip]
> > > (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> > > This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
> > > and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
> > > galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
> > > it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
> > > “first contact” scenario. [snip]
> >
> > The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
> > author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
> > Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
> > cringey humans.
> >
> > Clearly humans ruin everything!
> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
> Tony
> [1] Except when they don't.

I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:

This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.

The main differences are:

1. There are aliens.

2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
is on the line.

3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
character arc and becomes a better person.

4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
is much greater.

Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.

The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
_The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
of the time.

Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
_The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:

> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
> happy at the same time.”
> “That’s…dark.”
> “That’s *Russian*!”

It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.

These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
(For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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 by: Lynn McGuire - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 01:07 UTC

On 3/9/2023 6:11 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>>> [snip-snip]
>>>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
>>>> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
>>>> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
>>>> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
>>>> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
>>>> “first contact” scenario. [snip]
>>>
>>> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
>>> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
>>> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
>>> cringey humans.
>>>
>>> Clearly humans ruin everything!
>> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
>> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
>> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
>> Tony
>> [1] Except when they don't.
>
> I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
>
> This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
> is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
> and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
> occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
> Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
>
> The main differences are:
>
> 1. There are aliens.
>
> 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
> is on the line.
>
> 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
> character arc and becomes a better person.
>
> 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
> is much greater.
>
> Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
>
> The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
> introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
>
> The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
> an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
> _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
> of the time.
>
> Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
> _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
> and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
> protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
>
>> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
>> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
>> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
>> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
>> happy at the same time.”
>> “That’s…dark.”
>> “That’s *Russian*!”
>
> It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
> the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
>
> These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
> (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)

Dude, harsh scoring for an awesome novel. 98,127 people on Big River
disagreed with you and gave Project Hail Mary a 4.7 out of 5 stars.
https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/

Here is my review: "A standalone science fiction book, no prequel or
sequel known. I read the well printed and well bound trade paperback
published by Ballantine Books in 2022. I will continue to read all
books by Andy Weir, this is my third book of his.

This is a story of love, desperation, betrayal, incredibly long
loneliness, and great achievement. This is the story of Rocky and
Grace, two people who never should have met.

This is not a hard science story as there is an amoeba like creature
that can absorb light and turn it into mass and vice versa (E = mc^2).
And there are space aliens. Everything else is definitely hard science.
Science rules !

I loved the spaceship "Hail Mary". It just makes sense for the
multiyear journey to Tau Ceti. And it is a transformer to provide a
centrifuge for gravity when the engines were not firing, just cool.

MGM has bought the movie rights to the book for $3 million and Ryan
Gosling has signed on as the main character."

Lynn

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: Ahasuerus - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 04:46 UTC

On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 8:07:10 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/9/2023 6:11 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> >>> [snip-snip]
> >>>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> >>>> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
> >>>> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
> >>>> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
> >>>> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
> >>>> “first contact” scenario. [snip]
> >>>
> >>> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
> >>> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
> >>> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
> >>> cringey humans.
> >>>
> >>> Clearly humans ruin everything!
> >> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
> >> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
> >> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
> >> Tony
> >> [1] Except when they don't.
> >
> > I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
> >
> > This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
> > is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
> > and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
> > occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
> > Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
> >
> > The main differences are:
> >
> > 1. There are aliens.
> >
> > 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
> > is on the line.
> >
> > 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
> > character arc and becomes a better person.
> >
> > 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
> > is much greater.
> >
> > Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
> >
> > The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
> > introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
> >
> > The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
> > an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
> > _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
> > of the time.
> >
> > Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
> > _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
> > and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
> > protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
> >
> >> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
> >> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
> >> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
> >> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
> >> happy at the same time.”
> >> “That’s…dark.”
> >> “That’s *Russian*!”
> >
> > It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
> > the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
> >
> > These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
> > (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)
> Dude, harsh scoring for an awesome novel.

My "1-10" rating system is as follows:

10: superb

9: excellent

8: very good

7: good

6: decent

5: mediocre

4: bad

3: very bad

2: awful

1: abysmal

7 is "good", which I wouldn't call harsh. It would have been at least
an 8 if not for the pesky humans.

> 98,127 people on Big River
> disagreed with you and gave Project Hail Mary a 4.7 out of 5 stars.
> https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/
[snip-snip]

Yes, _Project Hail Mary_ has been popular. It won the Goodreads
and Dragon awards and was nominated for the Hugo award. On the
other hand, it came 23rd in the Locus Poll, which goes to show that
tastes differ. _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: Andrew McDowell - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 05:52 UTC

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
>
> I think there are no spoilers, not even minor ones. If something
> does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the book in question
> and is front-and-center.
>
> Books are listed in reverse chronological order from how I read them,
> using a very primitive rating system:
> “+” are good, and more “+” are better
> “-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse
>
> I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.
>
> Highlight - Probably Project Hail Mary, but a couple others are close
>
> Lowlight - Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al.,
> and it’s not even close
>
> Here’s a quick summary of what’s more in-depth below:
>
> February
> (++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
> (+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [anthology]
> (++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
> (++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
> (++) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate]
> (+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for
> P&P immediately above)
> (++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
> (+++) Dragon Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 15th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 16th I’ve read]
> (+++) Ghost Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 14th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 15th I’ve read]
> (- - -) Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al. - Rauch
>
> January
> (+++) Penric’s Labors - Bujold
> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> (++) Magnus Ridolph - Vance
> (++) Needle - Hal Clement
> (++) Dreadful Company - Shaw [Greta Helsing #2]
> (+++) Cast in Courtlight - Sagara [Elantra #2]
> (++ -) The Lodge of the Lynx - Katherine Kurtz & Deborah Turner Harris [Adept #2]
>
> Now Reading:
> Long work - Leviathan Falls - Corey [Expanse #9]
> Collection - Issac Asimov Presents the Best Science Fiction Firsts [ed. by Asimov, Waugh, and Greenberg]
> =======================================================
> February
> (++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
> It turns out the seemingly different issues that Greta & company dealt
> with in volumes 1 and 2 are actually related and part of a bigger scheme.
> The returning characters develop reasonably and in ways faithful to the
> previous books. But this volume…the presentation was scattered, especially
> the first 2/3 of the book, in the sense that the characters were in several
> different places, and each location got 3-5 pages worth of update within
> each chapter. On a more global scale, there was kind of a “kitchen sink”
> feel to the whole thing. So far this is the last volume in the series - I don’t
> know if I’d read a 4th one or not.
>
> (+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [collection]
> Though I really enjoy Martin’s writing in general, I found this collection
> to be rather disappointing overall. There are six novellas/novelettes, and
> I’d already read the famous “A Song For Lya” (which I did not enjoy the
> first time I read it, and it was worse this second time). The title story is
> excellent, and the other 4…eh. Two of them could have been written by
> early Stephen King, which is fine, but not great.
>
> (++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
> AND
> (++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
> I picked up this duology because I so very much enjoyed
> The Deed of Paksennarion. The first (Surrender None)
> tells the story of Gird, and it was significantly better than
> the second, which focuses on the story of Luap. The second
> is well done and of similar quality, but since Luap is a pretty
> flawed character, it makes for less enjoyable reading. Both
> are well worth reading - not as good as Deed… of course,
> but that’s a very high bar.
>
> (+++ -) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate - sequel to Template]
> AND
> (+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for P&P)
> Former rasfw participant Matt Hughes writes very Vance-like novels,
> and I find them very enjoyable. I seldom re-read novels, but when
> I started P&P and couldn’t remember squat, I decided to re-read
> Template - great idea (yay me!), as Template was very good,
> especially for a re-read. Template introduces us to Conn Labro, who
> leads a sheltered and narrowly-focused life as a duelist on planet
> Thrais. He comes into possession of a “bearer’s deed”, but it is
> not at all clear what it’s a deed to. After surviving two attempts
> on his life, he decides to go off-world to find out, leading to many
> adventures and discoveries. The sequel P&P picks up right where
> Template leaves off. And while P&P is also good, I think it falls
> a little short of Template, mostly because there’s an abrupt transition
> in the middle of the book that could have been smoother and/or more
> believable. Still very fine reading.
>
> (++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
> After the complete disaster that the previous novel turned out to be
> (possibly related to being the only co-written MHI novel?), this was a
> welcome return to the normal tone and character portrayals of the
> MHI canon. Also fun to have Owen as the protagonist. Lots of snark,
> gonzo situations involving …well…monsters and monster hunting.
> This one sees Owen & MHI in general caught between two ancient
> powerful enemies. We meet a few new characters and learn something
> significant about old nemesis Stricken. If you liked MHI 1-6, you’ll like
> this one.
>
> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
> the second one.
>
(Others trimmed)
I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them - I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy, rather than science, but great fun.

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: Ahasuerus - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:41 UTC

On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 11:46:04 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
[snip-snip]
> _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
> 4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.

4.8/5, of course. Amazon's scale is 1-5.

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:34 UTC

On Friday, 10 March 2023 at 12:41:06 UTC, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 11:46:04 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> [snip-snip]
> > _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
> > 4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.
> 4.8/5, of course. Amazon's scale is 1-5.

I wondered!

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:07:13 -0600
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 21:07 UTC

On 3/9/2023 11:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
>> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
>>
>> I think there are no spoilers, not even minor ones. If something
>> does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the book in question
>> and is front-and-center.
>>
>> Books are listed in reverse chronological order from how I read them,
>> using a very primitive rating system:
>> “+” are good, and more “+” are better
>> “-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse
>>
>> I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.
>>
>> Highlight - Probably Project Hail Mary, but a couple others are close
>>
>> Lowlight - Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al.,
>> and it’s not even close
>>
>> Here’s a quick summary of what’s more in-depth below:
>>
>> February
>> (++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
>> (+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [anthology]
>> (++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
>> (++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
>> (++) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate]
>> (+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for
>> P&P immediately above)
>> (++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
>> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
>> (+++) Dragon Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 15th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 16th I’ve read]
>> (+++) Ghost Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 14th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 15th I’ve read]
>> (- - -) Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al. - Rauch
>>
>> January
>> (+++) Penric’s Labors - Bujold
>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
>> (++) Magnus Ridolph - Vance
>> (++) Needle - Hal Clement
>> (++) Dreadful Company - Shaw [Greta Helsing #2]
>> (+++) Cast in Courtlight - Sagara [Elantra #2]
>> (++ -) The Lodge of the Lynx - Katherine Kurtz & Deborah Turner Harris [Adept #2]
>>
>> Now Reading:
>> Long work - Leviathan Falls - Corey [Expanse #9]
>> Collection - Issac Asimov Presents the Best Science Fiction Firsts [ed. by Asimov, Waugh, and Greenberg]
>> =======================================================
>> February
>> (++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
>> It turns out the seemingly different issues that Greta & company dealt
>> with in volumes 1 and 2 are actually related and part of a bigger scheme.
>> The returning characters develop reasonably and in ways faithful to the
>> previous books. But this volume…the presentation was scattered, especially
>> the first 2/3 of the book, in the sense that the characters were in several
>> different places, and each location got 3-5 pages worth of update within
>> each chapter. On a more global scale, there was kind of a “kitchen sink”
>> feel to the whole thing. So far this is the last volume in the series - I don’t
>> know if I’d read a 4th one or not.
>>
>> (+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [collection]
>> Though I really enjoy Martin’s writing in general, I found this collection
>> to be rather disappointing overall. There are six novellas/novelettes, and
>> I’d already read the famous “A Song For Lya” (which I did not enjoy the
>> first time I read it, and it was worse this second time). The title story is
>> excellent, and the other 4…eh. Two of them could have been written by
>> early Stephen King, which is fine, but not great.
>>
>> (++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
>> AND
>> (++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
>> I picked up this duology because I so very much enjoyed
>> The Deed of Paksennarion. The first (Surrender None)
>> tells the story of Gird, and it was significantly better than
>> the second, which focuses on the story of Luap. The second
>> is well done and of similar quality, but since Luap is a pretty
>> flawed character, it makes for less enjoyable reading. Both
>> are well worth reading - not as good as Deed… of course,
>> but that’s a very high bar.
>>
>> (+++ -) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate - sequel to Template]
>> AND
>> (+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for P&P)
>> Former rasfw participant Matt Hughes writes very Vance-like novels,
>> and I find them very enjoyable. I seldom re-read novels, but when
>> I started P&P and couldn’t remember squat, I decided to re-read
>> Template - great idea (yay me!), as Template was very good,
>> especially for a re-read. Template introduces us to Conn Labro, who
>> leads a sheltered and narrowly-focused life as a duelist on planet
>> Thrais. He comes into possession of a “bearer’s deed”, but it is
>> not at all clear what it’s a deed to. After surviving two attempts
>> on his life, he decides to go off-world to find out, leading to many
>> adventures and discoveries. The sequel P&P picks up right where
>> Template leaves off. And while P&P is also good, I think it falls
>> a little short of Template, mostly because there’s an abrupt transition
>> in the middle of the book that could have been smoother and/or more
>> believable. Still very fine reading.
>>
>> (++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
>> After the complete disaster that the previous novel turned out to be
>> (possibly related to being the only co-written MHI novel?), this was a
>> welcome return to the normal tone and character portrayals of the
>> MHI canon. Also fun to have Owen as the protagonist. Lots of snark,
>> gonzo situations involving …well…monsters and monster hunting.
>> This one sees Owen & MHI in general caught between two ancient
>> powerful enemies. We meet a few new characters and learn something
>> significant about old nemesis Stricken. If you liked MHI 1-6, you’ll like
>> this one.
>>
>> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
>> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
>> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
>> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
>> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
>> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
>> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
>> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
>> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
>> the second one.
>>
> (Others trimmed)
> I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them - I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy, rather than science, but great fun.

Which book trilogy are you talking about here ???

Thanks,
Lynn

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:09:38 -0600
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 21:09 UTC

On 3/9/2023 10:46 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 8:07:10 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/9/2023 6:11 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
>>>>>> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
>>>>>> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
>>>>>> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
>>>>>> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
>>>>>> “first contact” scenario. [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
>>>>> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
>>>>> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
>>>>> cringey humans.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly humans ruin everything!
>>>> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
>>>> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
>>>> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
>>>> Tony
>>>> [1] Except when they don't.
>>>
>>> I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
>>>
>>> This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
>>> is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
>>> and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
>>> occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
>>> Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
>>>
>>> The main differences are:
>>>
>>> 1. There are aliens.
>>>
>>> 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
>>> is on the line.
>>>
>>> 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
>>> character arc and becomes a better person.
>>>
>>> 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
>>> is much greater.
>>>
>>> Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
>>>
>>> The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
>>> introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
>>>
>>> The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
>>> an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
>>> _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
>>> of the time.
>>>
>>> Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
>>> _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
>>> and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
>>> protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
>>>
>>>> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
>>>> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
>>>> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
>>>> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
>>>> happy at the same time.”
>>>> “That’s…dark.”
>>>> “That’s *Russian*!”
>>>
>>> It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
>>> the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
>>>
>>> These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
>>> (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)
>> Dude, harsh scoring for an awesome novel.
>
> My "1-10" rating system is as follows:
>
> 10: superb
>
> 9: excellent
>
> 8: very good
>
> 7: good
>
> 6: decent
>
> 5: mediocre
>
> 4: bad
>
> 3: very bad
>
> 2: awful
>
> 1: abysmal
>
> 7 is "good", which I wouldn't call harsh. It would have been at least
> an 8 if not for the pesky humans.
>
>> 98,127 people on Big River
>> disagreed with you and gave Project Hail Mary a 4.7 out of 5 stars.
>> https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/
> [snip-snip]
>
> Yes, _Project Hail Mary_ has been popular. It won the Goodreads
> and Dragon awards and was nominated for the Hugo award. On the
> other hand, it came 23rd in the Locus Poll, which goes to show that
> tastes differ. _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
> 4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.

Here is the problem with ratings below 4 out of 5 stars.
https://xkcd.com/1098/

People are herd mentality. Anything below a certain level, 4 out of 5
stars, is judged to be crap.

Lynn

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 21:50 UTC

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:09:44 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/9/2023 10:46 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 8:07:10 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 3/9/2023 6:11 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> >>>>> [snip-snip]
> >>>>>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> >>>>>> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
> >>>>>> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
> >>>>>> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
> >>>>>> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
> >>>>>> “first contact” scenario. [snip]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
> >>>>> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
> >>>>> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
> >>>>> cringey humans.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Clearly humans ruin everything!
> >>>> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
> >>>> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
> >>>> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
> >>>> Tony
> >>>> [1] Except when they don't.
> >>>
> >>> I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
> >>>
> >>> This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
> >>> is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
> >>> and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
> >>> occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
> >>> Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
> >>>
> >>> The main differences are:
> >>>
> >>> 1. There are aliens.
> >>>
> >>> 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
> >>> is on the line.
> >>>
> >>> 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
> >>> character arc and becomes a better person.
> >>>
> >>> 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
> >>> is much greater.
> >>>
> >>> Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
> >>>
> >>> The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
> >>> introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
> >>>
> >>> The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
> >>> an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
> >>> _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
> >>> of the time.
> >>>
> >>> Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
> >>> _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
> >>> and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
> >>> protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
> >>>
> >>>> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
> >>>> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
> >>>> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
> >>>> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
> >>>> happy at the same time.”
> >>>> “That’s…dark.”
> >>>> “That’s *Russian*!”
> >>>
> >>> It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
> >>> the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe..
> >>>
> >>> These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
> >>> (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)
> >> Dude, harsh scoring for an awesome novel.
> >
> > My "1-10" rating system is as follows:
> >
> > 10: superb
> >
> > 9: excellent
> >
> > 8: very good
> >
> > 7: good
> >
> > 6: decent
> >
> > 5: mediocre
> >
> > 4: bad
> >
> > 3: very bad
> >
> > 2: awful
> >
> > 1: abysmal
> >
> > 7 is "good", which I wouldn't call harsh. It would have been at least
> > an 8 if not for the pesky humans.
> >
> >> 98,127 people on Big River
> >> disagreed with you and gave Project Hail Mary a 4.7 out of 5 stars.
> >> https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/
> > [snip-snip]
> >
> > Yes, _Project Hail Mary_ has been popular. It won the Goodreads
> > and Dragon awards and was nominated for the Hugo award. On the
> > other hand, it came 23rd in the Locus Poll, which goes to show that
> > tastes differ. _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
> > 4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.
> Here is the problem with ratings below 4 out of 5 stars.
> https://xkcd.com/1098/
>
> People are herd mentality. Anything below a certain level, 4 out of 5
> stars, is judged to be crap.

I usually read the one and two star ratings. Often the things people complain about
sound good to me, so I go on to read the four star ratings. If these make sense
I buy the book.

The bad reviews for Alexander King's "Mine Enemy Grows Older", for example, are all about
the poor condition of the used copies bought. If that's the only criticism they have of
a book...

William Hyde

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Fri, 10 Mar 2023 21:50 UTC

On 3/10/2023 1:09 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/9/2023 10:46 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 8:07:10 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/9/2023 6:11 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>>>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
>>>>>>> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
>>>>>>> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
>>>>>>> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
>>>>>>> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
>>>>>>> “first contact” scenario. [snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
>>>>>> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
>>>>>> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
>>>>>> cringey humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly humans ruin everything!
>>>>> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
>>>>> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
>>>>> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
>>>>> Tony
>>>>> [1] Except when they don't.
>>>>
>>>> I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
>>>>
>>>> This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
>>>> is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
>>>> and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
>>>> occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
>>>> Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
>>>>
>>>> The main differences are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. There are aliens.
>>>>
>>>> 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
>>>> is on the line.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
>>>> character arc and becomes a better person.
>>>>
>>>> 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
>>>> is much greater.
>>>>
>>>> Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
>>>>
>>>> The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
>>>> introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
>>>>
>>>> The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
>>>> an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
>>>> _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
>>>> of the time.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
>>>> _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
>>>> and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
>>>> protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
>>>>
>>>>> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
>>>>> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
>>>>> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
>>>>> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
>>>>> happy at the same time.”
>>>>> “That’s…dark.”
>>>>> “That’s *Russian*!”
>>>>
>>>> It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
>>>> the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
>>>>
>>>> These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
>>>> (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)
>>> Dude, harsh scoring for an awesome novel.
>>
>> My "1-10" rating system is as follows:
>>
>>      10: superb
>>
>>      9: excellent
>>
>>      8: very good
>>
>>      7: good
>>
>>      6: decent
>>
>>      5: mediocre
>>
>>      4: bad
>>
>>      3: very bad
>>
>>      2: awful
>>
>>      1: abysmal
>>
>> 7 is "good", which I wouldn't call harsh. It would have been at least
>> an 8 if not for the pesky humans.
>>
>>> 98,127 people on Big River
>>> disagreed with you and gave Project Hail Mary a 4.7 out of 5 stars.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/
>>   [snip-snip]
>>
>> Yes, _Project Hail Mary_ has been popular. It won the Goodreads
>> and Dragon awards and was nominated for the Hugo award. On the
>> other hand, it came 23rd in the Locus Poll, which goes to show that
>> tastes differ. _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
>> 4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.
>
> Here is the problem with ratings below 4 out of 5 stars.
>     https://xkcd.com/1098/
>
> People are herd mentality.  Anything below a certain level, 4 out of 5
> stars, is judged to be crap.
>
90% of everything....

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
From: tonynanc...@gmail.com (Tony Nance)
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 by: Tony Nance - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 02:29 UTC

On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 7:11:49 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> > > [snip-snip]
> > > > (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> > > > This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
> > > > and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
> > > > galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
> > > > it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
> > > > “first contact” scenario. [snip]
> > >
> > > The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
> > > author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
> > > Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
> > > cringey humans.
> > >
> > > Clearly humans ruin everything!
> > Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
> > in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
> > weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
> > Tony
> > [1] Except when they don't.
> I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
>
> This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
> is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
> and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
> occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
> Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
>
> The main differences are:
>
> 1. There are aliens.
>
> 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
> is on the line.
>
> 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
> character arc and becomes a better person.
>
> 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
> is much greater.
>
> Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
>
> The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
> introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
>
> The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
> an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
> _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
> of the time.
>
> Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
> _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
> and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
> protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
>
> > “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
> > die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
> > I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
> > “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
> > happy at the same time.”
> > “That’s…dark.”
> > “That’s *Russian*!”
>
> It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
> the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
>

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but we
apparently had different intensities/weights,

Also, it seems to me that the flaws you cite aren't so
much "human" as "here are some annoying things
the characters did, and the characters who displayed
them happened to be human". Unless maybe you
are more specifically critical of humans because
they're the sentient species you know about?

> These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
> (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)

I too enjoyed The Martian more than PHM, but
it's pretty close.

Tony

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: Tony Nance - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 02:31 UTC

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:07:19 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/9/2023 11:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
> >> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
> >>
> >> I think there are no spoilers, not even minor ones. If something
> >> does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the book in question
> >> and is front-and-center.
> >>
> >> Books are listed in reverse chronological order from how I read them,
> >> using a very primitive rating system:
> >> “+” are good, and more “+” are better
> >> “-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse
> >>
> >> I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.
> >>
> >> Highlight - Probably Project Hail Mary, but a couple others are close
> >>
> >> Lowlight - Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al.,
> >> and it’s not even close
> >>
> >> Here’s a quick summary of what’s more in-depth below:
> >>
> >> February
> >> (++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
> >> (+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [anthology]
> >> (++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
> >> (++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
> >> (++) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate]
> >> (+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for
> >> P&P immediately above)
> >> (++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
> >> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
> >> (+++) Dragon Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 15th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 16th I’ve read]
> >> (+++) Ghost Ship - Lee & Miller [Liaden - 14th written per https://sharonleewriter.com/correct-reading-order/ , and the 15th I’ve read]
> >> (- - -) Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League et al. - Rauch
> >>
> >> January
> >> (+++) Penric’s Labors - Bujold
> >> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> >> (++) Magnus Ridolph - Vance
> >> (++) Needle - Hal Clement
> >> (++) Dreadful Company - Shaw [Greta Helsing #2]
> >> (+++) Cast in Courtlight - Sagara [Elantra #2]
> >> (++ -) The Lodge of the Lynx - Katherine Kurtz & Deborah Turner Harris [Adept #2]
> >>
> >> Now Reading:
> >> Long work - Leviathan Falls - Corey [Expanse #9]
> >> Collection - Issac Asimov Presents the Best Science Fiction Firsts [ed.. by Asimov, Waugh, and Greenberg]
> >> =======================================================
> >> February
> >> (++ -)Grave Importance - Shaw [Greta Helsing #3]
> >> It turns out the seemingly different issues that Greta & company dealt
> >> with in volumes 1 and 2 are actually related and part of a bigger scheme.
> >> The returning characters develop reasonably and in ways faithful to the
> >> previous books. But this volume…the presentation was scattered, especially
> >> the first 2/3 of the book, in the sense that the characters were in several
> >> different places, and each location got 3-5 pages worth of update within
> >> each chapter. On a more global scale, there was kind of a “kitchen sink”
> >> feel to the whole thing. So far this is the last volume in the series - I don’t
> >> know if I’d read a 4th one or not.
> >>
> >> (+) Nightflyers & Other Stories - GRRMartin [collection]
> >> Though I really enjoy Martin’s writing in general, I found this collection
> >> to be rather disappointing overall. There are six novellas/novelettes, and
> >> I’d already read the famous “A Song For Lya” (which I did not enjoy the
> >> first time I read it, and it was worse this second time). The title story is
> >> excellent, and the other 4…eh. Two of them could have been written by
> >> early Stephen King, which is fine, but not great.
> >>
> >> (++ -) Liar’s Oath - Moon [Legacy of Gird #2 of 2]
> >> AND
> >> (++) Surrender None - Moon [Legacy of Gird #1 of 2]
> >> I picked up this duology because I so very much enjoyed
> >> The Deed of Paksennarion. The first (Surrender None)
> >> tells the story of Gird, and it was significantly better than
> >> the second, which focuses on the story of Luap. The second
> >> is well done and of similar quality, but since Luap is a pretty
> >> flawed character, it makes for less enjoyable reading. Both
> >> are well worth reading - not as good as Deed… of course,
> >> but that’s a very high bar.
> >>
> >> (+++ -) Passengers & Perils - Matt Hughes [Archonate - sequel to Template]
> >> AND
> >> (+++) Template - Matt Hughes [Archonate] (re-read, to refresh for P&P)
> >> Former rasfw participant Matt Hughes writes very Vance-like novels,
> >> and I find them very enjoyable. I seldom re-read novels, but when
> >> I started P&P and couldn’t remember squat, I decided to re-read
> >> Template - great idea (yay me!), as Template was very good,
> >> especially for a re-read. Template introduces us to Conn Labro, who
> >> leads a sheltered and narrowly-focused life as a duelist on planet
> >> Thrais. He comes into possession of a “bearer’s deed”, but it is
> >> not at all clear what it’s a deed to. After surviving two attempts
> >> on his life, he decides to go off-world to find out, leading to many
> >> adventures and discoveries. The sequel P&P picks up right where
> >> Template leaves off. And while P&P is also good, I think it falls
> >> a little short of Template, mostly because there’s an abrupt transition
> >> in the middle of the book that could have been smoother and/or more
> >> believable. Still very fine reading.
> >>
> >> (++) Monster Hunter: Bloodlines - Correia [MHI #8(?)]
> >> After the complete disaster that the previous novel turned out to be
> >> (possibly related to being the only co-written MHI novel?), this was a
> >> welcome return to the normal tone and character portrayals of the
> >> MHI canon. Also fun to have Owen as the protagonist. Lots of snark,
> >> gonzo situations involving …well…monsters and monster hunting.
> >> This one sees Owen & MHI in general caught between two ancient
> >> powerful enemies. We meet a few new characters and learn something
> >> significant about old nemesis Stricken. If you liked MHI 1-6, you’ll like
> >> this one.
> >>
> >> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
> >> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
> >> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
> >> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
> >> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
> >> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
> >> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
> >> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
> >> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
> >> the second one.
> >>
> > (Others trimmed)
> > I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them - I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy, rather than science, but great fun.
>
> Which book trilogy are you talking about here ???
>

I assume he was talking about the Silence Leigh trilogy:
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?615

Tony

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: Tony Nance - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 02:33 UTC

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:50:28 PM UTC-5, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:09:44 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > On 3/9/2023 10:46 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > > On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 8:07:10 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >> On 3/9/2023 6:11 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> > >>>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > >>>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> > >>>>> [snip-snip]
> > >>>>>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
> > >>>>>> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
> > >>>>>> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
> > >>>>>> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
> > >>>>>> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
> > >>>>>> “first contact” scenario. [snip]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
> > >>>>> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
> > >>>>> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
> > >>>>> cringey humans.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Clearly humans ruin everything!
> > >>>> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
> > >>>> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
> > >>>> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
> > >>>> Tony
> > >>>> [1] Except when they don't.
> > >>>
> > >>> I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
> > >>>
> > >>> This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
> > >>> is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
> > >>> and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
> > >>> occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
> > >>> Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
> > >>>
> > >>> The main differences are:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1. There are aliens.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
> > >>> is on the line.
> > >>>
> > >>> 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
> > >>> character arc and becomes a better person.
> > >>>
> > >>> 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
> > >>> is much greater.
> > >>>
> > >>> Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
> > >>>
> > >>> The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
> > >>> introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
> > >>>
> > >>> The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
> > >>> an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
> > >>> _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
> > >>> of the time.
> > >>>
> > >>> Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
> > >>> _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
> > >>> and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
> > >>> protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
> > >>>
> > >>>> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
> > >>>> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
> > >>>> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
> > >>>> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
> > >>>> happy at the same time.”
> > >>>> “That’s…dark.”
> > >>>> “That’s *Russian*!”
> > >>>
> > >>> It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
> > >>> the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
> > >>>
> > >>> These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
> > >>> (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)
> > >> Dude, harsh scoring for an awesome novel.
> > >
> > > My "1-10" rating system is as follows:
> > >
> > > 10: superb
> > >
> > > 9: excellent
> > >
> > > 8: very good
> > >
> > > 7: good
> > >
> > > 6: decent
> > >
> > > 5: mediocre
> > >
> > > 4: bad
> > >
> > > 3: very bad
> > >
> > > 2: awful
> > >
> > > 1: abysmal
> > >
> > > 7 is "good", which I wouldn't call harsh. It would have been at least
> > > an 8 if not for the pesky humans.
> > >
> > >> 98,127 people on Big River
> > >> disagreed with you and gave Project Hail Mary a 4.7 out of 5 stars.
> > >> https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/
> > > [snip-snip]
> > >
> > > Yes, _Project Hail Mary_ has been popular. It won the Goodreads
> > > and Dragon awards and was nominated for the Hugo award. On the
> > > other hand, it came 23rd in the Locus Poll, which goes to show that
> > > tastes differ. _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
> > > 4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.
> > Here is the problem with ratings below 4 out of 5 stars.
> > https://xkcd.com/1098/
> >
> > People are herd mentality. Anything below a certain level, 4 out of 5
> > stars, is judged to be crap.
>
> I usually read the one and two star ratings. Often the things people complain about
> sound good to me, so I go on to read the four star ratings. If these make sense
> I buy the book.
>
> The bad reviews for Alexander King's "Mine Enemy Grows Older", for example, are all about
> the poor condition of the used copies bought. If that's the only criticism they have of
> a book...
>

Exactly - both paragraphs. Sometimes people complain about stuff
that would be a feature from my view, and sometimes they complain
about stuff that has nothing to do with the actual book.

Tony

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 02:34 UTC

In article <cc9be294-2c31-4885-a9de-153222218dd3n@googlegroups.com>,
Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:07:19 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/9/2023 11:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
>> >> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
>> >>
>> >> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
>> >> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
>> >> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
>> >> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
>> >> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
>> >> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
>> >> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
>> >> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
>> >> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
>> >> the second one.
>> >>
>> > (Others trimmed)
>> > I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them -
>I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because
>the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy,
>rather than science, but great fun.
>>
>> Which book trilogy are you talking about here ???
>>
>
>I assume he was talking about the Silence Leigh trilogy:
>https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?615
>

I really enjoyed these at the time, and figured eventually
there would be some more. My memory is that the ending left
Silence in a pretty good place, but a lot of the ongoing action,
like the Rose-Worlds blockade of Earth, was unresolved -- or am I
misremembering that?

And I've never had any problem with fantasy elements in my sf so it
certainly wasn't a GP for me..
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 22:05:25 -0600
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:05 UTC

On 3/10/2023 8:34 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <cc9be294-2c31-4885-a9de-153222218dd3n@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:07:19 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/9/2023 11:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
>>>>>
>>>>> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
>>>>> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
>>>>> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
>>>>> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
>>>>> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
>>>>> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
>>>>> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
>>>>> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
>>>>> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
>>>>> the second one.
>>>>>
>>>> (Others trimmed)
>>>> I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them -
>> I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because
>> the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy,
>> rather than science, but great fun.
>>>
>>> Which book trilogy are you talking about here ???
>>>
>>
>> I assume he was talking about the Silence Leigh trilogy:
>> https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?615
>>
>
> I really enjoyed these at the time, and figured eventually
> there would be some more. My memory is that the ending left
> Silence in a pretty good place, but a lot of the ongoing action,
> like the Rose-Worlds blockade of Earth, was unresolved -- or am I
> misremembering that?
>
> And I've never had any problem with fantasy elements in my sf so it
> certainly wasn't a GP for me..

I am reading pure fantasy at the moment, "The Forever King".
https://www.amazon.com/Forever-King-Molly-Cochran/dp/1515346226/

Lynn

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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From: rober...@drizzle.com (Robert Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 21:59:23 -0800
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 by: Robert Woodward - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 05:59 UTC

In article <k727m8F57cdU1@mid.individual.net>,
ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

> In article <cc9be294-2c31-4885-a9de-153222218dd3n@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:07:19 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 3/9/2023 11:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
> >> >> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
> >> >>
> >> >> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
> >> >> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
> >> >> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
> >> >> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
> >> >> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
> >> >> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
> >> >> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
> >> >> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
> >> >> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
> >> >> the second one.
> >> >>
> >> > (Others trimmed)
> >> > I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them -
> >I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because
> >the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy,
> >rather than science, but great fun.
> >>
> >> Which book trilogy are you talking about here ???
> >>
> >
> >I assume he was talking about the Silence Leigh trilogy:
> >https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?615
> >
>
> I really enjoyed these at the time, and figured eventually
> there would be some more. My memory is that the ending left
> Silence in a pretty good place, but a lot of the ongoing action,
> like the Rose-Worlds blockade of Earth, was unresolved -- or am I
> misremembering that?

I thought that the Rose-Worlds blockade of Earth was blown away ...
checking my copy ... that's still my reading of the last chapter.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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 by: Ahasuerus - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 13:55 UTC

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 9:29:56 PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 7:11:49 PM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
[snip-snip]
> > I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
> >
> > This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
> > is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
> > and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
> > occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
> > Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
> >
> > The main differences are:
> >
> > 1. There are aliens.
> >
> > 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
> > is on the line.
> >
> > 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
> > character arc and becomes a better person.
> >
> > 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
> > is much greater.
> >
> > Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
> >
> > The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
> > introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
> >
> > The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
> > an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
> > _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
> > of the time.
> >
> > Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
> > _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
> > and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
> > protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
> >
> > > “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
> > > die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
> > > I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
> > > “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
> > > happy at the same time.”
> > > “That’s…dark.”
> > > “That’s *Russian*!”
> >
> > It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
> > the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
> >
> I agree with pretty much everything you said, but we
> apparently had different intensities/weights,
>
> Also, it seems to me that the flaws you cite aren't so
> much "human" as "here are some annoying things
> the characters did, and the characters who displayed
> them happened to be human". Unless maybe you
> are more specifically critical of humans because
> they're the sentient species you know about?
[snip]

There are two issues that I frequently have with the way SF
authors depict humans in alternate history and near future
(including "futures past") scenarios:

1. "Human society/technology ca. YYYY did not work this way."

2. "I don't care what happens to these people" aka Dorothy's
The Eight Deadly Words.

It killed Robert Charles Wilson's _Spin_ -- which had a lovely
SFnal idea -- for me and it has negatively affected my enjoyment
of a number of other alt. history and near future books.
It seems to be less of an issue with far future books.

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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 by: Andrew McDowell - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 15:16 UTC

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 2:34:56 AM UTC, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <cc9be294-2c31-4885...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:07:19 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> On 3/9/2023 11:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
> >> >> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
> >> >>
> >> >> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
> >> >> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
> >> >> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
> >> >> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
> >> >> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
> >> >> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
> >> >> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
> >> >> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
> >> >> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
> >> >> the second one.
> >> >>
> >> > (Others trimmed)
> >> > I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them -
> >I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because
> >the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy,
> >rather than science, but great fun.
> >>
> >> Which book trilogy are you talking about here ???
> >>
> >
> >I assume he was talking about the Silence Leigh trilogy:
> >https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?615
> >
> I really enjoyed these at the time, and figured eventually
> there would be some more. My memory is that the ending left
> Silence in a pretty good place, but a lot of the ongoing action,
> like the Rose-Worlds blockade of Earth, was unresolved -- or am I
> misremembering that?
>
> And I've never had any problem with fantasy elements in my sf so it
> certainly wasn't a GP for me..
> --
> columbiaclosings.com
> What's not in Columbia anymore..
If you're looking for an ending, it's a satisfactory conclusion; the first book pretty much starts with the existence of a starbook that might reveal the way to fabled Earth, if you are enough of a conspiracy theorist to believe it, and the third book ends with them safely established on Earth. On the other hand, if you are hoping for a follow-on, there is enough there to give you hope. I will type in the final paragraph of the third book.

Silence relaxed slowly, leaning back into the engineer's arms. That was enough of a decision for now, she thought, smiling. There would be other decisions later, details to be settled - she still owed Efilay what knowledge she could share, and the Javerrys too deserved whatever help she could give-but for now, it was enough. She, and Balthasar, and Chase Mago, were free, truly free, for the first time since they had met-better than free she thought suddenly, and better than just surviving. Whatever happens now, we're at the center, the center of human-settled space. We'll be a part of it, of this new time that's beginning. Her smile widened, as she stared into the blue of Earth's sky. That should be enough for anyone. (end quote)

(I'd have to reread the book to understand it properly, but there is a lot that happens in the final few pages. I can pick out "Almost in passing, she felt the siege engines shriek and die" and "The hegemon's agreed - her serenity will have Earth... and some prince - Azarian or something like that - will inherit the Hegemony... the hegemon wants you to enter his service, and so does her serenity".

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
Date: 11 Mar 2023 16:39:19 GMT
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 16:39 UTC

In article <robertaw-01B4D4.21592310032023@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <k727m8F57cdU1@mid.individual.net>,
> ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>
>> In article <cc9be294-2c31-4885-a9de-153222218dd3n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 4:07:19 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> >> On 3/9/2023 11:52 PM, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>> >> > On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC, Tony Nance wrote:
>> >> >> Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (++) Five-Twelfths of Heaven - Scott [Silence Leigh #1]
>> >> >> In addition to introducing Silence Leigh to us, this features an
>> >> >> interesting FTL system based on music & harmony. This very
>> >> >> much has a space opera vibe, but it also includes some magic
>> >> >> & mages. Silence is a pilot who escapes her uncle and their
>> >> >> oppressively male-dominated world with the help of another
>> >> >> (off-world-based) pilot. Her new role finds her piloting some
>> >> >> sketchy courier work when they get caught up in a huge war
>> >> >> and things proceed from there. Pretty good - I will seek out
>> >> >> the second one.
>> >> >>
>> >> > (Others trimmed)
>> >> > I have the trilogy as three separate books and really enjoyed them -
>> >I have reread them multiple times - a bit of a guiltly pleasure because
>> >the FTL system and world-building is really fantasy, based on alchemy,
>> >rather than science, but great fun.
>> >>
>> >> Which book trilogy are you talking about here ???
>> >>
>> >
>> >I assume he was talking about the Silence Leigh trilogy:
>> >https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?615
>> >
>>
>> I really enjoyed these at the time, and figured eventually
>> there would be some more. My memory is that the ending left
>> Silence in a pretty good place, but a lot of the ongoing action,
>> like the Rose-Worlds blockade of Earth, was unresolved -- or am I
>> misremembering that?
>
>I thought that the Rose-Worlds blockade of Earth was blown away ...
>checking my copy ... that's still my reading of the last chapter.
>

OK, that's very possible -- it was a *long* time ago!
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2023 09:13:19 -0800
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:13 UTC

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:09:38 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/9/2023 10:46 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 8:07:10?PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/9/2023 6:11 PM, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 4:18:10?PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 9:14:04?AM UTC-5, Ahasuerus wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 3:29:36?PM UTC-5, Tony Nance wrote:
>>>>>> [snip-snip]
>>>>>>> (+++) Project Hail Mary - Weir
>>>>>>> This was awesome! More specifically, it was a return to the tone
>>>>>>> and scope and fun we saw in The Martian. ... Science puzzles
>>>>>>> galore, lots of funny situations and commentary. Plot-wise,
>>>>>>> it’s a huge science/space mystery bundled with a very well done
>>>>>>> “first contact” scenario. [snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The aliens and the science puzzles were fun. But why did the
>>>>>> author have to add humans to the mix? It was just like Adrian
>>>>>> Tchaikovsky's _Children of Time_: great aliens, fun science,
>>>>>> cringey humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly humans ruin everything!
>>>>> Ha! Yes, humans ruin everything.[1] Agree that the human protagonist
>>>>> in Project Hail Mary had a few cringey moments, but (to me) there
>>>>> weren't many - at least, I didn't mind him at all.
>>>>> Tony
>>>>> [1] Except when they don't.
>>>>
>>>> I posted a mini-review of _Project Hail Mary_ last year:
>>>>
>>>> This novel was similar to _The Martian_ in a number of ways. A human
>>>> is stranded millions of miles away from Earth and needs to use science
>>>> and engineering in order to accomplish his goal. Various disasters
>>>> occur and he has to figure out ways to survive them. We also see
>>>> Earth-based humans working toward the same goal.
>>>>
>>>> The main differences are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. There are aliens.
>>>>
>>>> 2. The stakes are much higher – the fate of at least 2 sapient species
>>>> is on the line.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Unlike _The Martian_, the protagonist of PHM has a prominent
>>>> character arc and becomes a better person.
>>>>
>>>> 4. The amount of time spent on describing the events back on Earth
>>>> is much greater.
>>>>
>>>> Of these 4 differences, I liked the aliens the most. Fun stuff.
>>>>
>>>> The higher stakes were OK, although the author apparently had to
>>>> introduce a number of semi-magical elements to make them work.
>>>>
>>>> The protagonist’s character arc was a mixed bag. In theory, it was
>>>> an improvement compared to the somewhat bland protagonist of
>>>> _The Martian_. However, the implementation left me irritated most
>>>> of the time.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, the addition of more humans was a significant minus. If
>>>> _The Martian_’s human politics felt like a soap opera, PHM’s politics
>>>> and inter-human relationships felt like a bad sitcom. Here is the
>>>> protagonist meeting a vodka-swilling Russian engineer in Chapter 16:
>>>>
>>>>> “Hello!” Ilyukhina lunged forward and hugged Stratt. “I’m here to
>>>>> die for Earth! Pretty awesome, yes?!”
>>>>> I leaned to Dimitri. “Are all Russians crazy?”
>>>>> “Yes,” he said with a smile. “It is the only way to be Russian and
>>>>> happy at the same time.”
>>>>> “That’s…dark.”
>>>>> “That’s *Russian*!”
>>>>
>>>> It would make early 20th century pulp authors, who perfected
>>>> the art of “characterization by stereotyping”, cringe.
>>>>
>>>> These issues dragged my final score down to 7/10.
>>>> (For the record, I gave _The Martian_ 9/10.)
>>> Dude, harsh scoring for an awesome novel.
>>
>> My "1-10" rating system is as follows:
>>
>> 10: superb
>>
>> 9: excellent
>>
>> 8: very good
>>
>> 7: good
>>
>> 6: decent
>>
>> 5: mediocre
>>
>> 4: bad
>>
>> 3: very bad
>>
>> 2: awful
>>
>> 1: abysmal
>>
>> 7 is "good", which I wouldn't call harsh. It would have been at least
>> an 8 if not for the pesky humans.
>>
>>> 98,127 people on Big River
>>> disagreed with you and gave Project Hail Mary a 4.7 out of 5 stars.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/
>> [snip-snip]
>>
>> Yes, _Project Hail Mary_ has been popular. It won the Goodreads
>> and Dragon awards and was nominated for the Hugo award. On the
>> other hand, it came 23rd in the Locus Poll, which goes to show that
>> tastes differ. _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone_, which is rated
>> 4.8/10 on Amazon.com, is a perfect example.
>
>Here is the problem with ratings below 4 out of 5 stars.
> https://xkcd.com/1098/
>
>People are herd mentality. Anything below a certain level, 4 out of 5
>stars, is judged to be crap.

When the pandemic slowed the release of movies down, I found it
necessary to lower my standards a bit in terms of ratings.

I found that many lower-rated films (how many tended to track
generally with the lowness of the rating) were worth watching, if not
anything special. A lot of these are very low budget, so those who are
obsessed with how much the film cost will not like them.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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Subject: Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023
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 by: Jay E. Morris - Sun, 12 Mar 2023 02:34 UTC

On 3/10/2023 8:33 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
>> I usually read the one and two star ratings. Often the things people complain about
>> sound good to me, so I go on to read the four star ratings. If these make sense
>> I buy the book.
>>
>> The bad reviews for Alexander King's "Mine Enemy Grows Older", for example, are all about
>> the poor condition of the used copies bought. If that's the only criticism they have of
>> a book...
>>
> Exactly - both paragraphs. Sometimes people complain about stuff
> that would be a feature from my view, and sometimes they complain
> about stuff that has nothing to do with the actual book.

This is universal of course, not just books.

The [gadget] was perfect and did everything I wanted better than
anything I've ever used, but the shipping box was all beat up. Two stars.

Re: Highlights and Lowlights - JanFeb 2023

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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Sun, 12 Mar 2023 03:23 UTC

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 9:34:47 PM UTC-5, Jay E. Morris wrote:
> On 3/10/2023 8:33 PM, Tony Nance wrote:
> >> I usually read the one and two star ratings. Often the things people complain about
> >> sound good to me, so I go on to read the four star ratings. If these make sense
> >> I buy the book.
> >>
> >> The bad reviews for Alexander King's "Mine Enemy Grows Older", for example, are all about
> >> the poor condition of the used copies bought. If that's the only criticism they have of
> >> a book...
> >>
> > Exactly - both paragraphs. Sometimes people complain about stuff
> > that would be a feature from my view, and sometimes they complain
> > about stuff that has nothing to do with the actual book.
> This is universal of course, not just books.
>
> The [gadget] was perfect and did everything I wanted better than
> anything I've ever used, but the shipping box was all beat up. Two stars.

Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/937/

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