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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

SubjectAuthor
* {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilDavid Johnston
+* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilJames Nicoll
|+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilAhasuerus
|+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilDavid Johnston
|+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilQuadibloc
|`- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilMickmane
+* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilLynn McGuire
|`* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilQuadibloc
| `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilLynn McGuire
|  +* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilQuadibloc
|  |`* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilWolfFan
|  | +* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilChristian Weisgerber
|  | |+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilWolfFan
|  | |`* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilJonathan Harston
|  | | `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilQuadibloc
|  | |  `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evilpete...@gmail.com
|  | |   `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilPaul S Person
|  | |    `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilRobert Carnegie
|  | |     `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilPaul S Person
|  | |      `- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilRobert Carnegie
|  | `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilLynn McGuire
|  |  `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilWolfFan
|  |   `* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilLynn McGuire
|  |    `- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilPaul S Person
|  `- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil-dsr-
+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilWilliam Hyde
+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilWolfFan
+* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilDorothy J Heydt
|`- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilHamish Laws
+* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilPaul S Person
|+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilRobert Carnegie
|+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilLynn McGuire
|`- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilDavid Johnston
+* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilRobert Carnegie
|`- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilLynn McGuire
+- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilQuadibloc
`* Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilQuadibloc
 +- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilDavid Johnston
 `- Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No EvilRobert Carnegie

Pages:12
Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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 by: WolfFan - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:40 UTC

On Mar 12, 2023, Christian Weisgerber wrote
(in article<slrnu0smgc.2qo7.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>):

> On 2023-03-12, WolfFan<akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Not all of Heinlein's books are available new:
> > > > https://www.amazon.com/Tunnel-Sky-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1416505512/
> > >
> > > Interesting. That is one of his juveniles; I don't recall it being
> > > objectionable for any reason.
> >
> > Off the top of my head...
> >
> > 1. Girlz in the military. Lots of idiots object to that.
>
> The protagonist's older sister, IIRC? And didn't that sound a lot
> like a segregated branch of the military?
>
> > 2. Our Hero has trouble distinguishing girlz from boyz. Other idiots have
> > problems there, and still others have problems with that whole gender thing.
>
> He mistook one particular girl for a boy, because going into a
> survival situation she had opted for short hair and body armor.
> I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
> no teenager ever has sex on their mind.
>
> As far as I recall, the novel sticks to 1950s gender roles and
> societal norms.

Caroline telling white boyz where to get off, and getting away with it,
ain’t very 1950s. Girlz wondering about with knives ain’t very 1950s.
> Of course some people might have a problem with
> exactly that. My memory is hazy but wasn't there a whole lot of
> discussion about how to establish a system of government, and then
> out of the blue people get married

Wasn’t out of the blue. Once it was established that Jack was a girl, it
was bloody obvious that there’d be... romance. And Roddie was too thick to
be the guy, so it was also obvious who it would be. And once there was one
couple, there’d be more. Even Heinlein didn’t dare link Roddie and
Caroline up. Pity.
> and there is absolutely zero
> discussion or questioning of that aspect of society. Huh. Very
> jarring for a reader who grew up a few decades later.

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 22:57:46 -0500
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:57 UTC

On 3/12/2023 10:33 PM, WolfFan wrote:
> On Mar 12, 2023, Lynn McGuire wrote
> (in article <tulvi4$3d02j$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 3/12/2023 4:32 PM, WolfFan wrote:
>>> On Mar 12, 2023, Quadibloc wrote
>>> (in article<69d7936f-e430-4383-8572-cdef9fbf3969n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 9:33:01 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 3/11/2023 9:58 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:13:17 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> You can still buy a new
>>>>>>> MMPB copy so that says something.
>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe just something about the reputation of Heinlein's oeuvre in
>>>>>> general, because of his best books, and not necessarily anything
>>>>>> about _this_ book?
>>>>
>>>>> Not all of Heinlein's books are available new:
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Tunnel-Sky-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1416505512/
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. That is one of his juveniles; I don't recall it being
>>>> objectionable for any reason.
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>> Off the top of my head...
>>>
>>> 1. Girlz in the military. Lots of idiots object to that.
>>>
>>> 2. Our Hero has trouble distinguishing girlz from boyz. Other idiots have
>>> problems there, and still others have problems with that whole gender thing.
>>>
>>> 3. It glorifies imperialism. Seriously.
>>>
>>> 4. It glorifies inter-racial co-operation. (A certain City Manager...)
>>>
>>> 5. It glorifies bad attitudes (the aforementioned City Manager and her
>>> attitude towards authority when said authority needed her notepaper)
>>>
>>> 6. It glorifies corporal punishment, as noted on the very last page.
>>>
>>> I’m sure that there’s more if I look closer.
>>
>> I think you and I read different books. This is "Tunnel In The Sky", not
>> "Starship Troopers".
>
> Yes, it is. Roddie’s sister was military. Roddie thought that Jackie was a
> guy. The whole point of the system was to colonize distant planets. Caroline
> was a Zulu. Caroline advised the first mayor that he’d better send several
> big, husky, boys, to collect her notepaper. And implied that he might not get
> all of them back. (“Good! That solves a problem I had been wondering about.
> Uh, we will have to requisition half of that supply for official use- public
> notices, committee transactions, and the like. You know.” Caroline looked
> wide-eyed. “That’s a lot of paper, isn’t it? You had better send two or
> three big husky boys to carry it.” Cowper looked puzzled. “You’re
> joking.” “Better make it four big huskies. I could probably manage three
> … and somebody is likely to get hurt.”
> Excerpt From
> Tunnel In the Sky
> Robert A. Heinlein
> This material may be protected by copyright.) A brat in na colonizing party
> gets a thorough spanking as the book ends. That’s Tunnel, not Troopers.
>
> I have the book in my ebook pile; I scanned it in and OCRed it from an
> ancient paperback.
>
>>
>>
>> Lynn

Obviously I need to reread TITS.

Lynn

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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From: ATH...@kruemel.org (Mickmane)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
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 by: Mickmane - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 06:28 UTC

The following seems to have gotten lost, I can't find it on google
groups, and didn't get any messages at all yesterday (today it said 'no
longer on server' to a bunch of messages). So, reposting it.

On 11.03.23, jdnicoll@panix.com <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:

> I noticed once that nudism seemed to turn up more often
> than one might expect in the work of SF authors who worked at
> the Naval Aviation Experimental Station in Philadelphia during
> WWII. The role of nudism in America's defence against the Axis
> is so obvious I won't insult you by explaining it.

Please insult me. :)

--

Mickmane

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:58 UTC

On Sunday, 12 March 2023 at 03:56:53 UTC, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:33:24 PM UTC-7, David Johnston quoted, in part:
> > The dirty old rich guy gets the body of a young
> > woman and she devotes the rest of her life to giddily exploring the
> > wonders of sex in a female body.
> My recollection of the book, hazy though it is, is that the
> sexual matters touched upon were not dealt with in a
> prurient or pornographic manner.

Perhaps our standards of what is prurient differ.

It is a long time since I read it. But I may do so soon,
having been reminded.

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
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 by: Paul S Person - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:57 UTC

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 22:57:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 3/12/2023 10:33 PM, WolfFan wrote:
>> On Mar 12, 2023, Lynn McGuire wrote
>> (in article <tulvi4$3d02j$1@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>> On 3/12/2023 4:32 PM, WolfFan wrote:
>>>> On Mar 12, 2023, Quadibloc wrote
>>>> (in article<69d7936f-e430-4383-8572-cdef9fbf3969n@googlegroups.com>):
>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 9:33:01?PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/11/2023 9:58 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:13:17?PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can still buy a new
>>>>>>>> MMPB copy so that says something.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe just something about the reputation of Heinlein's oeuvre in
>>>>>>> general, because of his best books, and not necessarily anything
>>>>>>> about _this_ book?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not all of Heinlein's books are available new:
>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Tunnel-Sky-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1416505512/
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting. That is one of his juveniles; I don't recall it being
>>>>> objectionable for any reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>> Off the top of my head...
>>>>
>>>> 1. Girlz in the military. Lots of idiots object to that.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Our Hero has trouble distinguishing girlz from boyz. Other idiots have
>>>> problems there, and still others have problems with that whole gender thing.
>>>>
>>>> 3. It glorifies imperialism. Seriously.
>>>>
>>>> 4. It glorifies inter-racial co-operation. (A certain City Manager...)
>>>>
>>>> 5. It glorifies bad attitudes (the aforementioned City Manager and her
>>>> attitude towards authority when said authority needed her notepaper)
>>>>
>>>> 6. It glorifies corporal punishment, as noted on the very last page.
>>>>
>>>> I’m sure that there’s more if I look closer.
>>>
>>> I think you and I read different books. This is "Tunnel In The Sky", not
>>> "Starship Troopers".
>>
>> Yes, it is. Roddie’s sister was military. Roddie thought that Jackie was a
>> guy. The whole point of the system was to colonize distant planets. Caroline
>> was a Zulu. Caroline advised the first mayor that he’d better send several
>> big, husky, boys, to collect her notepaper. And implied that he might not get
>> all of them back. (“Good! That solves a problem I had been wondering about.
>> Uh, we will have to requisition half of that supply for official use- public
>> notices, committee transactions, and the like. You know.” Caroline looked
>> wide-eyed. “That’s a lot of paper, isn’t it? You had better send two or
>> three big husky boys to carry it.” Cowper looked puzzled. “You’re
>> joking.” “Better make it four big huskies. I could probably manage three
>> … and somebody is likely to get hurt.”
>> Excerpt From
>> Tunnel In the Sky
>> Robert A. Heinlein
>> This material may be protected by copyright.) A brat in na colonizing party
>> gets a thorough spanking as the book ends. That’s Tunnel, not Troopers.
>>
>> I have the book in my ebook pile; I scanned it in and OCRed it from an
>> ancient paperback.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lynn
>
>Obviously I need to reread TITS.

When I reread those available on Kindle some time back, I believe this
was one of at least two that I found myself reading again for the very
first time.

My memory of them had ... mutated ... over the years.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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 by: -dsr- - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:19 UTC

On 2023-03-12, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/11/2023 9:58 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:13:17 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> You can still buy a new
>>> MMPB copy so that says something.
>>
>> Maybe just something about the reputation of Heinlein's oeuvre in
>> general, because of his best books, and not necessarily anything
>> about _this_ book?
>>
>> John Savard
>
> Not all of Heinlein's books are available new:
> https://www.amazon.com/Tunnel-Sky-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1416505512/

I see it as an $8 ebook. The fact that it hasn't had a paper printing in some
years seems unremarkable.

-dsr-

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
From: jgh...@mdfs.net (Jonathan Harston)
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 by: Jonathan Harston - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 01:01 UTC

On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:30:09 PM UTC, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
> no teenager ever has sex on their mind.

How many teenagers have you met? :)

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 04:30 UTC

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 7:01:03 PM UTC-6, Jonathan Harston wrote:
> On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:30:09 PM UTC, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
> > no teenager ever has sex on their mind.
>
> How many teenagers have you met? :)

Of course he meant - Also, it's a juvenile, so of course none of the teenage
characters depicted in it will ever be shown to have sex on their mind.

Well, at least in some senses. Archie comics were considered to be safe
reading for children, and it did show male characters reacting to the
beauty of their female contemporaries, and having an interest in becoming
more acquainted with them.

John Savard

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

<b1429814-12c3-48a4-9881-e961eebf18d9n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 04:43 UTC

On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 12:30:07 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 7:01:03 PM UTC-6, Jonathan Harston wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:30:09 PM UTC, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > > I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
> > > no teenager ever has sex on their mind.
> >
> > How many teenagers have you met? :)
> Of course he meant - Also, it's a juvenile, so of course none of the teenage
> characters depicted in it will ever be shown to have sex on their mind.
>
> Well, at least in some senses. Archie comics were considered to be safe
> reading for children, and it did show male characters reacting to the
> beauty of their female contemporaries, and having an interest in becoming
> more acquainted with them.

I distinctly recall that in TiTs, some people, realizing they weren't going
home soon, paired up and started baby making.

Pt

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 09:11:37 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:11 UTC

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 21:43:20 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 12:30:07?AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 7:01:03?PM UTC-6, Jonathan Harston wrote:
>> > On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:30:09?PM UTC, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>> > > I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
>> > > no teenager ever has sex on their mind.
>> >
>> > How many teenagers have you met? :)
>> Of course he meant - Also, it's a juvenile, so of course none of the teenage
>> characters depicted in it will ever be shown to have sex on their mind.
>>
>> Well, at least in some senses. Archie comics were considered to be safe
>> reading for children, and it did show male characters reacting to the
>> beauty of their female contemporaries, and having an interest in becoming
>> more acquainted with them.
>
>I distinctly recall that in TiTs, some people, realizing they weren't going
>home soon, paired up and started baby making.

It's been too long since I read it, but weren't these /older/
teenagers? Teenagers who, after a few years, weren't teenagers any
longer?

On a related note, in one of the allegedly-special features that came
with the DVD of /The Hunger Games/ was an interview in which one of
the actors, having read the books, stated "there is no sex in /The
Hunger Games/". Of course, that was written for younger teenagers but
.... still ... this appears to be a convention.

How many books in did "snugging" become an issue in the Harry Potter
series?

--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 00:44 UTC

On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 16:11:44 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 21:43:20 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 12:30:07?AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> >> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 7:01:03?PM UTC-6, Jonathan Harston wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:30:09?PM UTC, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> >> > > I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
> >> > > no teenager ever has sex on their mind.
> >> >
> >> > How many teenagers have you met? :)
> >> Of course he meant - Also, it's a juvenile, so of course none of the teenage
> >> characters depicted in it will ever be shown to have sex on their mind.
> >>
> >> Well, at least in some senses. Archie comics were considered to be safe
> >> reading for children, and it did show male characters reacting to the
> >> beauty of their female contemporaries, and having an interest in becoming
> >> more acquainted with them.
> >
> >I distinctly recall that in TiTs, some people, realizing they weren't going
> >home soon, paired up and started baby making.
> It's been too long since I read it, but weren't these /older/
> teenagers? Teenagers who, after a few years, weren't teenagers any
> longer?
>
> On a related note, in one of the allegedly-special features that came
> with the DVD of /The Hunger Games/ was an interview in which one of
> the actors, having read the books, stated "there is no sex in /The
> Hunger Games/". Of course, that was written for younger teenagers but
> ... still ... this appears to be a convention.
>
> How many books in did "snugging" become an issue in the Harry Potter
> series?

An issue? And you may mean "snogging". Or not.
Wizard description of Muggle behaviour is hilarious,
but I think wizards and witches actually have this
behaviour.

Let's see. I think Hermione gives Harry a friendly hug
in book one while they are looking for Voldemort (unwise)
but romantically she prefers Ron, later anyway.
Percy Weasley is seen kissing a girl in book two.
I think he's also reported at home to be delighted
by receiving a school prefect badge and to spend a lot
of time alone polishing it. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
At the Yule Ball in book four, I think teachers are
busy fetching pairs of students out from the bushes
while Hagrid too is trying to woo, verbally, and Harry
has a pretty awkward romance in book five.

So, in book two, kissing is something that the older
students are doing, and that our heroes think is funny.

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:01:57 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:01 UTC

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 17:44:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 16:11:44 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 21:43:20 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 12:30:07?AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>> >> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 7:01:03?PM UTC-6, Jonathan Harston wrote:
>> >> > On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:30:09?PM UTC, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>> >> > > I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
>> >> > > no teenager ever has sex on their mind.
>> >> >
>> >> > How many teenagers have you met? :)
>> >> Of course he meant - Also, it's a juvenile, so of course none of the teenage
>> >> characters depicted in it will ever be shown to have sex on their mind.
>> >>
>> >> Well, at least in some senses. Archie comics were considered to be safe
>> >> reading for children, and it did show male characters reacting to the
>> >> beauty of their female contemporaries, and having an interest in becoming
>> >> more acquainted with them.
>> >
>> >I distinctly recall that in TiTs, some people, realizing they weren't going
>> >home soon, paired up and started baby making.
>> It's been too long since I read it, but weren't these /older/
>> teenagers? Teenagers who, after a few years, weren't teenagers any
>> longer?
>>
>> On a related note, in one of the allegedly-special features that came
>> with the DVD of /The Hunger Games/ was an interview in which one of
>> the actors, having read the books, stated "there is no sex in /The
>> Hunger Games/". Of course, that was written for younger teenagers but
>> ... still ... this appears to be a convention.
>>
>> How many books in did "snugging" become an issue in the Harry Potter
>> series?
>
>An issue? And you may mean "snogging". Or not.
>Wizard description of Muggle behaviour is hilarious,
>but I think wizards and witches actually have this
>behaviour.

I very likely did mean "snogging". Note that, IMHO, this is a British
experession, presumably meaning "necking".

>Let's see. I think Hermione gives Harry a friendly hug
>in book one while they are looking for Voldemort (unwise)
>but romantically she prefers Ron, later anyway.
>Percy Weasley is seen kissing a girl in book two.
>I think he's also reported at home to be delighted
>by receiving a school prefect badge and to spend a lot
>of time alone polishing it. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
>At the Yule Ball in book four, I think teachers are
>busy fetching pairs of students out from the bushes
>while Hagrid too is trying to woo, verbally, and Harry
>has a pretty awkward romance in book five.

I don't think the hug counts. Percy is older, and becomes quite an
idiot later on at the Ministry. So, yes, Book Four it may well be.

When Harry has turned 14, having turned 11 at the start of Book One.

A bit younger than I had thought, perhaps. But I wasn't thinking of
the character's ages, just the books.

>So, in book two, kissing is something that the older
>students are doing, and that our heroes think is funny.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
From: rja.carn...@excite.com (Robert Carnegie)
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 by: Robert Carnegie - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:46 UTC

On Wednesday, 15 March 2023 at 16:02:04 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 17:44:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 16:11:44 UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 21:43:20 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> >> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, March 14, 2023 at 12:30:07?AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> >> >> On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 7:01:03?PM UTC-6, Jonathan Harston wrote:
> >> >> > On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 11:30:09?PM UTC, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> >> >> > > I think there is some intentional irony here. Also, it's a juvenile,
> >> >> > > no teenager ever has sex on their mind.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > How many teenagers have you met? :)
> >> >> Of course he meant - Also, it's a juvenile, so of course none of the teenage
> >> >> characters depicted in it will ever be shown to have sex on their mind.
> >> >>
> >> >> Well, at least in some senses. Archie comics were considered to be safe
> >> >> reading for children, and it did show male characters reacting to the
> >> >> beauty of their female contemporaries, and having an interest in becoming
> >> >> more acquainted with them.
> >> >
> >> >I distinctly recall that in TiTs, some people, realizing they weren't going
> >> >home soon, paired up and started baby making.
> >> It's been too long since I read it, but weren't these /older/
> >> teenagers? Teenagers who, after a few years, weren't teenagers any
> >> longer?
> >>
> >> On a related note, in one of the allegedly-special features that came
> >> with the DVD of /The Hunger Games/ was an interview in which one of
> >> the actors, having read the books, stated "there is no sex in /The
> >> Hunger Games/". Of course, that was written for younger teenagers but
> >> ... still ... this appears to be a convention.
> >>
> >> How many books in did "snugging" become an issue in the Harry Potter
> >> series?
> >
> >An issue? And you may mean "snogging". Or not.
> >Wizard description of Muggle behaviour is hilarious,
> >but I think wizards and witches actually have this
> >behaviour.
>
> I very likely did mean "snogging". Note that, IMHO, this is a British
> experession, presumably meaning "necking".

Oh, I don't think we do /that./ ;-)

> >Let's see. I think Hermione gives Harry a friendly hug
> >in book one while they are looking for Voldemort (unwise)
> >but romantically she prefers Ron, later anyway.
> >Percy Weasley is seen kissing a girl in book two.
> >I think he's also reported at home to be delighted
> >by receiving a school prefect badge and to spend a lot
> >of time alone polishing it. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
> >At the Yule Ball in book four, I think teachers are
> >busy fetching pairs of students out from the bushes
> >while Hagrid too is trying to woo, verbally, and Harry
> >has a pretty awkward romance in book five.
>
> I don't think the hug counts. Percy is older, and becomes quite an
> idiot later on at the Ministry. So, yes, Book Four it may well be.
>
> When Harry has turned 14, having turned 11 at the start of Book One.
>
> A bit younger than I had thought, perhaps. But I wasn't thinking of
> the character's ages, just the books.
>
> >So, in book two, kissing is something that the older
> >students are doing, and that our heroes think is funny.

....and in book four - mostly. I think it's still older
students in the shrubbery: there are a couple of names
that are probably on one of the exhaustively thorough fan
web sites. Hermione and Ron argue like Cary Grant is
playing at least one of them, and Hermione does a bit
of blushing, but she really doesn't need to. Ron and Harry
still have a habit of seeing girls, except for Hermione, as
best to avoid. So Ron is jealous of the Durmstrang lad
pursuing Hermione, but doesn't seem to know that.
And in the shrubbery they are merely spectators.

Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil

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From: davidjoh...@yahoo.com (David Johnston)
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Subject: Re: {Quora] I Will Fear No Evil
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 13:51:32 -0600
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 by: David Johnston - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 19:51 UTC

On 2023-03-11 10:30 a.m., Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:33:18 -0700, David Johnston
> <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> What do people think of Robert E. Heinlein's 1970 novel 'I Will Fear No
>> Evil', in which a rich dying old man has his brain transplanted into the
>> body of his beautiful young female secretary?
>
> I think it shows that he thought he knew how women think, feel, and
> otherwise operate but in fact had /no idea whatsoever/.
>
> Self-delusion produces bad novels.

The way he wrote people in general in this era of his career was a bit
weird.

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