On 3/18/2023 1:43 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/18/2023 11:41 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2023-03-06 2:37 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on major news
>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former
>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even
>>>>>>>>>>>> after) that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunter
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden
>>>>>>>>>>> was VP was
>>>>>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows
>>>>>>>>>>> this policy
>>>>>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should
>>>>>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
>>>>>>>>>> episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves.
>>>>>>>>>> Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less
>>>>>>>>>> than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the
>>>>>>>>>> foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were
>>>>>>>>>> not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe
>>>>>>>>>> Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money
>>>>>>>>>> transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments.
>>>>>>>>>> There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support
>>>>>>>>>> Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also
>>>>>>>>>> got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a
>>>>>>>>>> combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz
>>>>>>>>>> claimed that the language and general professionalism of the
>>>>>>>>>> report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job
>>>>>>>>>> from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden.
>>>>>>>>>> The classification or otherwise of the report and of any
>>>>>>>>>> sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>>>>>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's
>>>>>>>>>> existence, least of all its classification.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the
>>>>>>>> wall
>>>>>>>> trying to get anything to stick.  Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>>>>>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they
>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
>>>>>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then the
>>>>>> base
>>>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so
>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>>>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>>>>> local problem.
>>>>
>>>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups have
>>>> long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US
>>>> and are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in
>>>> the US.
>>>
>>> Those numbers are patently false.  The single largest terrorist event
>>> in the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New York
>>> City who killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several billion
>>> dollars of real estate property and air planes in a single event.
>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
>>
>> That was more than 20 years ago.  In the intervening time period
>> Christian terrorism has been a bigger problem.
>
> Please name dates and places of these supposed Christian terrorism events.
>
Shall we start with all the bombings and bomb threats against abortion
providers?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 2023-03-18 2:43 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/18/2023 11:41 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2023-03-06 2:37 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on major news
>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former
>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even
>>>>>>>>>>>> after) that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunter
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden
>>>>>>>>>>> was VP was
>>>>>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows
>>>>>>>>>>> this policy
>>>>>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should
>>>>>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
>>>>>>>>>> episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves.
>>>>>>>>>> Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less
>>>>>>>>>> than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that the
>>>>>>>>>> foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills were
>>>>>>>>>> not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe
>>>>>>>>>> Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money
>>>>>>>>>> transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments.
>>>>>>>>>> There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support
>>>>>>>>>> Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also
>>>>>>>>>> got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a
>>>>>>>>>> combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz
>>>>>>>>>> claimed that the language and general professionalism of the
>>>>>>>>>> report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job
>>>>>>>>>> from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden.
>>>>>>>>>> The classification or otherwise of the report and of any
>>>>>>>>>> sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>>>>>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's
>>>>>>>>>> existence, least of all its classification.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the
>>>>>>>> wall
>>>>>>>> trying to get anything to stick.  Hunter Biden's behavior isn't the
>>>>>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they
>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
>>>>>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then the
>>>>>> base
>>>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so
>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the casualties
>>>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>>>>> local problem.
>>>>
>>>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups have
>>>> long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the US
>>>> and are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths in
>>>> the US.
>>>
>>> Those numbers are patently false.  The single largest terrorist event
>>> in the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New York
>>> City who killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several billion
>>> dollars of real estate property and air planes in a single event.
>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
>>
>> That was more than 20 years ago.  In the intervening time period
>> Christian terrorism has been a bigger problem.
>
> Please name dates and places of these supposed Christian terrorism events.

August 5th 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple mass shooting.

May 2009: Assassination of George Tiller, Wichita Kansas

November 2015: Mass shooting at Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado
Springs Colorado.

On Saturday, March 18, 2023 at 2:22:29 PM UTC-6, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-03-12 3:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:

> The idea that you could keep oppressing Russia forever and never have to
> pay the toll for your abuse is ill-founded.

Three responses to this come to mind.

1) Russia has been oppressing Ukraine forever, and has never had
to pay the toll for this abouse. Aren't you concerned about that?

2) This isn't abuse. It's cost recovery.

3) In any case, in order to avoid reducing the Russian people to
starvation, and instead recover vast sums of money from Russia
that it can still afford to pay, I proposed that Russia's mineral
revenues - what the government would normally charge Russian
mining companies for the minerals in the ground that they take - be
taken and used for Russia's reparations payments.

Now, if that is a form of abuse, and countries engaging in that form
of abuse will have to pay the toll for it...

Speaking of debts that ought to be repaid with interest, how long is it
that certain U.S. mining companies have been minerals from Latin
American countries very cheaply - because of deals they made with
illegitimate non-democratic regimes in those countries?

And when the people overthrow those regimes, and try to institute
a more equitable scheme of mineral royalty payments, similar to what
companies mining in countries like Canada, France, or even the U.S.
must pay... well, that's Communism, and so the U.S. overthrows the
new governments there and puts a right-wing dictatorship back into
power.

If the U.S. can abuse Latin America forever and get away with it, why
should Russia be any different, particularly as this time it deserves it?

John Savard

On 3/18/2023 10:27 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-03-18 2:43 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/18/2023 11:41 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-06 2:37 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>>>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been reported
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on major news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> after) that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>> was VP was
>>>>>>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows
>>>>>>>>>>>> this policy
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious, should
>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
>>>>>>>>>>> episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves.
>>>>>>>>>>> Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less
>>>>>>>>>>> than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that
>>>>>>>>>>> the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills
>>>>>>>>>>> were not really buying his skills, but his influence with Joe
>>>>>>>>>>> Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of money
>>>>>>>>>>> transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these payments.
>>>>>>>>>>> There is also the question of how Joe Biden might support
>>>>>>>>>>> Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money. Cruz also
>>>>>>>>>>> got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I think as a
>>>>>>>>>>> combined initial piece of work and sales brochure. Cruz
>>>>>>>>>>> claimed that the language and general professionalism of the
>>>>>>>>>>> report suggested that this was in fact a cut and paste job
>>>>>>>>>>> from something like a background briefing given to Joe Biden.
>>>>>>>>>>> The classification or otherwise of the report and of any
>>>>>>>>>>> sections cut and pasted was a subject of
>>>>>>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's
>>>>>>>>>>> existence, least of all its classification.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at the
>>>>>>>>> wall
>>>>>>>>> trying to get anything to stick.  Hunter Biden's behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that they
>>>>>>>>> can use
>>>>>>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they shooting
>>>>>>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then the
>>>>>>> base
>>>>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so
>>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>>>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the
>>>>>>> casualties
>>>>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>>>>>> local problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups
>>>>> have long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in the
>>>>> US and are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused deaths
>>>>> in the US.
>>>>
>>>> Those numbers are patently false.  The single largest terrorist
>>>> event in the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New
>>>> York City who killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several
>>>> billion dollars of real estate property and air planes in a single
>>>> event.
>>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
>>>
>>> That was more than 20 years ago.  In the intervening time period
>>> Christian terrorism has been a bigger problem.
>>
>> Please name dates and places of these supposed Christian terrorism
>> events.
>
> August 5th 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple mass shooting.
>
> May 2009:  Assassination of George Tiller, Wichita Kansas
>
> November 2015:  Mass shooting at Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado
> Springs Colorado.
>
> November 28th 2014:  Larry Steven McQuilliams fires more than a hundred
> rounds at a federal courthouse, Mexican consulate and police station in
> Austin Texas before being killed by a police officer returning his fire.
>
> 2012:  Firebombing of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grande Chute Wisconsin
>
> October 27th 2018:  Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting
>
> 2019:  Mosque arson and Synagogue shooting in Escondido California
>
> 2019:  El Paso Walmart shooting
>
> April 25th 2007:  Explosive device in Women's Health Clinic in Austin
> Texas.
>
> October 2013:  Arson at Mosque and Planned Parenthood Clinic
>
> October 2018:  Series of mail bombing attempts
>
One thousand Quatloos says he will respond that BLM has done much more
and worse.

On 2023-03-19 11:05 a.m., Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/18/2023 10:27 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2023-03-18 2:43 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>> On 3/18/2023 11:41 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-06 2:37 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>>>>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reported on major news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after) that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was VP was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should certainly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
>>>>>>>>>>>> episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for yourselves.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cruz claimed that he was never interested in Hunter's less
>>>>>>>>>>>> than exemplary behaviour for itself. His argument was that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the foreign businesses paying Hunter for his supposed skills
>>>>>>>>>>>> were not really buying his skills, but his influence with
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there was evidence of
>>>>>>>>>>>> money transfers from Hunter to Biden passing on these
>>>>>>>>>>>> payments. There is also the question of how Joe Biden might
>>>>>>>>>>>> support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making all of this money.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cruz also got hold of a report that Hunter had produced I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think as a combined initial piece of work and sales
>>>>>>>>>>>> brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and general
>>>>>>>>>>>> professionalism of the report suggested that this was in
>>>>>>>>>>>> fact a cut and paste job from something like a background
>>>>>>>>>>>> briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification or otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the report and of any sections cut and pasted was a
>>>>>>>>>>>> subject of
>>>>>>>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>>>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's
>>>>>>>>>>>> existence, least of all its classification.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at
>>>>>>>>>> the wall
>>>>>>>>>> trying to get anything to stick.  Hunter Biden's behavior
>>>>>>>>>> isn't the
>>>>>>>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that
>>>>>>>>>> they can use
>>>>>>>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they
>>>>>>>>> shooting
>>>>>>>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then
>>>>>>>> the base
>>>>>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so
>>>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears to be
>>>>>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the
>>>>>>>> casualties
>>>>>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's only a
>>>>>>> local problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups
>>>>>> have long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in
>>>>>> the US and are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused
>>>>>> deaths in the US.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those numbers are patently false.  The single largest terrorist
>>>>> event in the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New
>>>>> York City who killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several
>>>>> billion dollars of real estate property and air planes in a single
>>>>> event.
>>>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
>>>>
>>>> That was more than 20 years ago.  In the intervening time period
>>>> Christian terrorism has been a bigger problem.
>>>
>>> Please name dates and places of these supposed Christian terrorism
>>> events.
>>
>> August 5th 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple mass shooting.
>>
>> May 2009:  Assassination of George Tiller, Wichita Kansas
>>
>> November 2015:  Mass shooting at Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado
>> Springs Colorado.
>>
>> November 28th 2014:  Larry Steven McQuilliams fires more than a
>> hundred rounds at a federal courthouse, Mexican consulate and police
>> station in Austin Texas before being killed by a police officer
>> returning his fire.
>>
>> 2012:  Firebombing of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grande Chute
>> Wisconsin
>>
>> October 27th 2018:  Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting
>>
>> 2019:  Mosque arson and Synagogue shooting in Escondido California
>>
>> 2019:  El Paso Walmart shooting
>>
>> April 25th 2007:  Explosive device in Women's Health Clinic in Austin
>> Texas.
>>
>> October 2013:  Arson at Mosque and Planned Parenthood Clinic
>>
>> October 2018:  Series of mail bombing attempts
>>
> One thousand Quatloos says he will respond that BLM has done much more
> and worse.
>

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:05:58 AM UTC+11, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/18/2023 10:27 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> > On 2023-03-18 2:43 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >>
> >> Please name dates and places of these supposed Christian terrorism
> >> events.
> >
> > August 5th 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple mass shooting.
> >
> > May 2009: Assassination of George Tiller, Wichita Kansas
> >
> > November 2015: Mass shooting at Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado
> > Springs Colorado.
> >
> > November 28th 2014: Larry Steven McQuilliams fires more than a hundred
> > rounds at a federal courthouse, Mexican consulate and police station in
> > Austin Texas before being killed by a police officer returning his fire..
> >
> > 2012: Firebombing of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grande Chute Wisconsin
> >
> > October 27th 2018: Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting
> >
> > 2019: Mosque arson and Synagogue shooting in Escondido California
> >
> > 2019: El Paso Walmart shooting
> >
> > April 25th 2007: Explosive device in Women's Health Clinic in Austin
> > Texas.
> >
> > October 2013: Arson at Mosque and Planned Parenthood Clinic
> >
> > October 2018: Series of mail bombing attempts
> >
> One thousand Quatloos says he will respond that BLM has done much more
> and worse.

Yes, after all they burned and completely destroyed cities...

On 20/03/2023 12:15, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:05:58 AM UTC+11, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 3/18/2023 10:27 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-18 2:43 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Please name dates and places of these supposed Christian terrorism
>>>> events.
>>>
>>> August 5th 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple mass shooting.
>>>
>>> May 2009: Assassination of George Tiller, Wichita Kansas
>>>
>>> November 2015: Mass shooting at Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado
>>> Springs Colorado.
>>>
>>> November 28th 2014: Larry Steven McQuilliams fires more than a hundred
>>> rounds at a federal courthouse, Mexican consulate and police station in
>>> Austin Texas before being killed by a police officer returning his fire.
>>>
>>> 2012: Firebombing of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grande Chute Wisconsin
>>>
>>> October 27th 2018: Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting
>>>
>>> 2019: Mosque arson and Synagogue shooting in Escondido California
>>>
>>> 2019: El Paso Walmart shooting
>>>
>>> April 25th 2007: Explosive device in Women's Health Clinic in Austin
>>> Texas.
>>>
>>> October 2013: Arson at Mosque and Planned Parenthood Clinic
>>>
>>> October 2018: Series of mail bombing attempts
>>>
>> One thousand Quatloos says he will respond that BLM has done much more
>> and worse.
>
> Yes, after all they burned and completely destroyed cities...

Cities?!?!? Cities?!?!?!?!?

Nonsense, he'll claim they laid waste to entire *shires^Wcounties*!!

Raped the sheep, killed all the women, and salted the earth after they
passed.

As well as denied that whatever was truly the chosen of some god or
other, and whatever else was the spawn of some cabal of demons, and so on.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

On 3/19/2023 5:50 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-03-19 11:05 a.m., Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 3/18/2023 10:27 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-18 2:43 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 3/18/2023 11:41 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-03-06 2:37 p.m., Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/6/2023 2:31 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/6/2023 9:21 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Mar 2023 09:09:20 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2023 8:46 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:16:03 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
>>>>>>>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2023 8:29 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:29:24 -0800 (PST), Andrew McDowell
>>>>>>>>>>>> <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:05:05?PM UTC, Paul S Person
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2023 20:20:24 GMT, Chris Buckley
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <al...@sabir.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <snippo mucho>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that statement by Ratcliffe wouldn't have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reported on major news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites like:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> USAToday:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/19/russian-disinformation-not-behind-biden-emails-dni-ratcliffe-says/3712484001/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CNN:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-russia-disinformation/index.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Washington Post:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-hunter-biden-laptop-russia/2020/10/20/3478408a-133d-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like those?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep. It was then buried in favor of the 50 former
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence agencies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask the readership here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How many of you were aware before the election (or even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after) that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the DNI, FBI, and Justice Department had all said that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hunter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never understood why something Biden's son did when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biden was VP was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of any significance whatsoever. We no longer hold parents
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their children's actions; indeed, God Himself disavows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this policy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the Bible, so the Republicans, being so religious,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should certainly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have been trying to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (trimmed)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ted Cruz spent some time on this, and you can look at old
>>>>>>>>>>>>> episodes of his podcast "Verdict" to hear it for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourselves. Cruz claimed that he was never interested in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunter's less than exemplary behaviour for itself. His
>>>>>>>>>>>>> argument was that the foreign businesses paying Hunter for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his supposed skills were not really buying his skills, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his influence with Joe Biden. Cruz tried to show that there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was evidence of money transfers from Hunter to Biden
>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing on these payments. There is also the question of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how Joe Biden might support Hunter if Hunter wasn't making
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of this money. Cruz also got hold of a report that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunter had produced I think as a combined initial piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work and sales brochure. Cruz claimed that the language and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> general professionalism of the report suggested that this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was in fact a cut and paste job from something like a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> background briefing given to Joe Biden. The classification
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or otherwise of the report and of any sections cut and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasted was a subject of
>>>>>>>>>>> Cruz's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> surmise, but he had no real evidence for the report's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence, least of all its classification.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> None of which suggests that the "story" is worth pursuing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is pursued because they are throwing rotten spaghetti at
>>>>>>>>>>> the wall
>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get anything to stick.  Hunter Biden's behavior
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't the
>>>>>>>>>>> point of the exercise, the damage to their opposition that
>>>>>>>>>>> they can use
>>>>>>>>>>> the appearance of it to cause is the point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with that analysis of the situation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But /is/ there any damage to their opposition? Or are they
>>>>>>>>>> shooting
>>>>>>>>>> themselves in the foot, so to speak?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Depends on who you ask.  The MAGA base believes them but then
>>>>>>>>> the base
>>>>>>>>> believes anything they say and already hates "outsiders" so
>>>>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>>>>> to be whipped up to vote Republican.  The main effect appears
>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>> whipping them up to do more than just vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Everyone else?  Probably very little effect other than the
>>>>>>>>> casualties
>>>>>>>>> suffered from the "more than just vote" MAGA contingent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who may, eventually, move into the category "domestic terrorist".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This isn't the 80's. And Ronnie isn't in charge to claim it's
>>>>>>>> only a
>>>>>>>> local problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's this "may, eventually" bit?  Right wing extremist groups
>>>>>>> have long since moved into the #1 domestic terrorist problem in
>>>>>>> the US and are responsible for over 90% of all terrorist caused
>>>>>>> deaths in the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those numbers are patently false.  The single largest terrorist
>>>>>> event in the last 50 years in the USA was muslim extremists in New
>>>>>> York City who killed 2,977 innocent souls and destroyed several
>>>>>> billion dollars of real estate property and air planes in a single
>>>>>> event.
>>>>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
>>>>>
>>>>> That was more than 20 years ago.  In the intervening time period
>>>>> Christian terrorism has been a bigger problem.
>>>>
>>>> Please name dates and places of these supposed Christian terrorism
>>>> events.
>>>
>>> August 5th 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple mass shooting.
>>>
>>> May 2009:  Assassination of George Tiller, Wichita Kansas
>>>
>>> November 2015:  Mass shooting at Planned Parenthood clinic in
>>> Colorado Springs Colorado.
>>>
>>> November 28th 2014:  Larry Steven McQuilliams fires more than a
>>> hundred rounds at a federal courthouse, Mexican consulate and police
>>> station in Austin Texas before being killed by a police officer
>>> returning his fire.
>>>
>>> 2012:  Firebombing of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grande Chute
>>> Wisconsin
>>>
>>> October 27th 2018:  Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting
>>>
>>> 2019:  Mosque arson and Synagogue shooting in Escondido California
>>>
>>> 2019:  El Paso Walmart shooting
>>>
>>> April 25th 2007:  Explosive device in Women's Health Clinic in Austin
>>> Texas.
>>>
>>> October 2013:  Arson at Mosque and Planned Parenthood Clinic
>>>
>>> October 2018:  Series of mail bombing attempts
>>>
>> One thousand Quatloos says he will respond that BLM has done much more
>> and worse.
>
> I'll take that bet.  I'm certain he'll go the No True Scotsman route.
>
As in anyone who commits a terrorist act can't possibly be a real
conservative?

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 20:54:30 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 3/19/2023 5:50 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2023-03-19 11:05 a.m., Dimensional Traveler wrote:
<snippo mucho>
<including a list of domestic terrorist acts since 9/11>
>>> One thousand Quatloos says he will respond that BLM has done much more
>>> and worse.
>>
>> I'll take that bet.  I'm certain he'll go the No True Scotsman route.
> >
>As in anyone who commits a terrorist act can't possibly be a real
>conservative?

Well, it worked for the anti-abortion groups whenever one of their
members committed a terrorist act.

(All except the first -- but then, they clearly had enough integrity
left to admit the Awful Truth that one of their members was a
fire-bomber. The resulting negative publicity convinced the other
groups that lying through their teeth was the way to go.)
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:21:36 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>Russia is dead, China is dying. Both are undergoing population implosions.

True - but then so is Ukraine and as long as Putin remains in power I
don't see that changing (mostly through emigration)

On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 14:22:24 -0600, David Johnston
<davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-12 3:02 p.m., Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 7:51:00?PM UTC-7, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 6:38:18?PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
>> Germany was permitted to rearm. Now, we don't have to make that
>> mistake. If, after Russia has paid its debts, and the occupation troops
>> have been withdrawn, it takes one step towards rearming...
>>
>> all it takes is to push one button to bring that to an end.
>
>The idea that you could keep oppressing Russia forever and never have to
>pay the toll for your abuse is ill-founded.

Agreed - you might enforce that for 10 years but beyond that - well
let's just say such a scheme didn't work so well with respect to
Germany 1936-39 mostly because by then the WW1 Allies had given up
their will to resist a German leader bent of restoring the pre-1914
status quo