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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

SubjectAuthor
* A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Thomas Koenig
+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
|+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Don
||`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Lynn McGuire
|| `- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
|+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Jonathan Harston
||`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963pete...@gmail.com
|| `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963James Nicoll
||  +- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963pete...@gmail.com
||  `- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Robert Woodward
|`- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963David E. Siegel
+- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Lynn McGuire
+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963 YASIDWolfFan
|`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963 YASIDAhasuerus
| `- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963 YASIDWolfFan
+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963David Johnston
|+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Andrew McDowell
||+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963David Johnston
|||`- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963David E. Siegel
||`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963James Nicoll
|| +* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Gary R. Schmidt
|| |`- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963James Nicoll
|| `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Quadibloc
||  `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Robert Woodward
||   `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Default User
||    +- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Hamish Laws
||    `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963The Horny Goat
||     `- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963pete...@gmail.com
|+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Mike Spencer
||+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963James Nicoll
|||`- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963James Nicoll
||`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Andrew McDowell
|| `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Dorothy J Heydt
||  `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963William Hyde
||   +- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Dimensional Traveler
||   `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Titus G
||    `- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963William Hyde
|`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963pete...@gmail.com
| +- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963James Nicoll
| +- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Don
| `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Default User
|  `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Quadibloc
|   `* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Default User
|    `- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Dimensional Traveler
+- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Charles Packer
+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Garrett Wollman
|+- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Scott Lurndal
|+* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Titus G
||`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963pete...@gmail.com
|| +* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Chris Buckley
|| |`* Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Titus G
|| | `* Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.Titus G
|| |  `* Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.Titus G
|| |   +- Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.Charles Packer
|| |   `* Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.Chris Buckley
|| |    `- Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.Titus G
|| `- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Titus G
|`- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963Don
`- Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963artyw2@yahoo.com

Pages:123
Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 03:15:16 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
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 by: James Nicoll - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 03:15 UTC

In article <pmhnej-r46.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>On 21/03/2023 00:06, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <21fb9ff0-da12-4de1-aece-5eefa0fc6236n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Andrew McDowell <mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Science Fiction did not predict the fall of the Soviet Union, so
>>> the invasion of a westward looking Ukraine by an authoritarian
>>> but non-communist Russia would be so daring as perhaps to be
>>> difficult to sell.
>>
>> Well, not the peaceful fall, at any rate.
>>
>> George Turner's Beloved Sun has a crew of intrepid (and largely
>> doomed) starfarers return from Barnard's Star to discover that
>> in the years they were gone, WWIII and what followed rearranged
>> the world significantly. As I recall, Russia abandoned communism
>> but managed to preserve the unpleasantness.
>>
>Gentle correction, 'tis, "Beloved Son".
>
Thank you.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
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Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

<20230321a@crcomp.net>

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From: g...@crcomp.net (Don)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 10:30:44 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Don - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 10:30 UTC

Garrett Wollman wrote:
> Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
>>Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
>>what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
>>social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
>>you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
>>
>>What would you write about?
>
> This reminds me of a couple of things:
>
> First, one of Asimov's F&SF essays, titled "What Truck?", published in
> the mid-80s, was about the SF writers who could have foreseen space
> travel but for one reason or another misunderstood the science.
>
> Second, there was a book published in 1985 called THE 2025 REPORT,
> shelved as non-fiction, which impressionable tween me read when it
> landed on the new-books shelf in the public library. (I hesitate to
> look up who wrote it because it was probably by someone dreadful.) It
> was catalogued as nonfiction but it was written from the perspective
> of someone in 2025 writing about the past forty years of their
> timeline's history, and from what I recall it totally missed the
> mark. The author was some flavor of techno-libertarian and was
> certain that nation-states would have completely dissolved by then and
> everyone would belong to the state of their choice without regard to
> where they lived or what they did. (I can think of a few modern
> writers with better thought out takes on this idea.)
>
> Even among supposed contemporary experts, who correctly called the
> miniaturization revolution or the extent to which it was driven by
> industrial policy in a modernizing China?

Nr 63 "Die Mikro-Techniker" (The Microtechs), written in 1962, kick
starts Perry Perry Rhodan's sfnal miniaturization revolution as an
industrial policy of Die Dritte Mach (The Third Power) - coincidentally
located in the Gobi Desert. And the Microtechs continue to create micro-
Wunderwaffen in Nr 222 "Die Doppelgänger von Andromeda" (The Doppel-
gangers from Andromeda).
FWIW, the latter novella was finished by me yestereday. It's a clone
story, ergo "doppelganger."

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 12:58 UTC

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:17:17 PM UTC-4, Jonathan Harston wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 6:04:45 PM UTC, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > Well, I said a while ago that everybody prognosticating missed
> > Cellphone Culture.
> Maybe not quite. There's a scene in the second Motie book where
> there's a meeting, which goes something like:
> Blaine waited slightly impatently as people synchronsed their
> pocket computers with the ship's systems, and waited for the
> beeps and chirps to die down as people took their seats.
>
> Exactly like today's always-on smart device culture.

The Gripping Hand was published in 1993. Cellphones had been
around for nearly a decade by then. The Apple Newton was announced
in 1992.

pt

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 13:01 UTC

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:41:49 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
> On 21/03/23 15:18, Garrett Wollman wrote:
> snip
> > mark. The author was some flavor of techno-libertarian and was
> > certain that nation-states would have completely dissolved by then and
> > everyone would belong to the state of their choice without regard to
> > where they lived or what they did. (I can think of a few modern
> > writers with better thought out takes on this idea.)
> I don't think I have come across that societal possibility for people
> and am interested. Would you please provide a title or two?
> (If more than two, please rank them :-))

Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" for one.

pt

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 13:37:12 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
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 by: James Nicoll - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 13:37 UTC

In article <6a2bb979-5d80-4dca-8438-15f53bc3e3bdn@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:17:17 PM UTC-4, Jonathan Harston wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 6:04:45 PM UTC, Ted Nolan
><tednolan> wrote:
>> > Well, I said a while ago that everybody prognosticating missed
>> > Cellphone Culture.
>> Maybe not quite. There's a scene in the second Motie book where
>> there's a meeting, which goes something like:
>> Blaine waited slightly impatently as people synchronsed their
>> pocket computers with the ship's systems, and waited for the
>> beeps and chirps to die down as people took their seats.
>>
>> Exactly like today's always-on smart device culture.
>
>The Gripping Hand was published in 1993. Cellphones had been
>around for nearly a decade by then. The Apple Newton was announced
>in 1992.

I seem to recall the original Mote had something a lot like tablets.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
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Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 15:49 UTC

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 9:37:17 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <6a2bb979-5d80-4dca...@googlegroups.com>,
> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:17:17 PM UTC-4, Jonathan Harston wrote:
> >> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 6:04:45 PM UTC, Ted Nolan
> ><tednolan> wrote:
> >> > Well, I said a while ago that everybody prognosticating missed
> >> > Cellphone Culture.
> >> Maybe not quite. There's a scene in the second Motie book where
> >> there's a meeting, which goes something like:
> >> Blaine waited slightly impatently as people synchronsed their
> >> pocket computers with the ship's systems, and waited for the
> >> beeps and chirps to die down as people took their seats.
> >>
> >> Exactly like today's always-on smart device culture.
> >
> >The Gripping Hand was published in 1993. Cellphones had been
> >around for nearly a decade by then. The Apple Newton was announced
> >in 1992.
> I seem to recall the original Mote had something a lot like tablets.

So did 2001, a Space Odyssey. They at least functioned as TVs. When
I finally saw a restored 70mm print a few years ago, you could see that
they had IBM branding.

pt

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
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 by: Robert Woodward - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 16:46 UTC

In article <tvcbu8$bos$1@reader2.panix.com>,
jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> In article <6a2bb979-5d80-4dca-8438-15f53bc3e3bdn@googlegroups.com>,
> pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:17:17 PM UTC-4, Jonathan Harston wrote:
> >> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 6:04:45 PM UTC, Ted Nolan
> ><tednolan> wrote:
> >> > Well, I said a while ago that everybody prognosticating missed
> >> > Cellphone Culture.
> >> Maybe not quite. There's a scene in the second Motie book where
> >> there's a meeting, which goes something like:
> >> Blaine waited slightly impatently as people synchronsed their
> >> pocket computers with the ship's systems, and waited for the
> >> beeps and chirps to die down as people took their seats.
> >>
> >> Exactly like today's always-on smart device culture.
> >
> >The Gripping Hand was published in 1993. Cellphones had been
> >around for nearly a decade by then. The Apple Newton was announced
> >in 1992.
>
> I seem to recall the original Mote had something a lot like tablets.

_A Spaceship for a King_ (later expanded to _King David's Spaceship_),
written by Pournelle around the same time as _Mote in God's Eye_ and set
in the same period, had them too (acted like the Apple Newton in that
they recognized handwriting).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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From: lynnmcgu...@gmail.com (Lynn McGuire)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
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 by: Lynn McGuire - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 19:37 UTC

On 3/19/2023 2:11 PM, Don wrote:
> Ted Nolan wrote:
>> Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
>>> Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
>>> what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
>>> social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
>>> you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
>>>
>>> What would you write about?
>>
>> Well, I said a while ago that everybody prognosticating missed
>> Cellphone Culture. So that. Probably weave the Musk "Delos D. Harriman"
>> story in as the plot. That lets you bring in Space, Social Media, War,
>> Cars, & Politics. Hopefully since it's 1963, we don't get a 70s ending..
>
> Yes! Cellphone Culture changed the world as we knew it. Meanwhile the
> meta-verse fights for control of grandpa's websites...
>
> Danke,

Robert Heinlein talked about mobile phones in his 1948 book, "Space Cadet".

Lynn

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 20:07 UTC

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:58:41 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
> On 21/03/23 11:16, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <33ec72a1-9225-40fa...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Andrew McDowell <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
> >>> Based on these and similar issues, I understand that there
> >>> are required courses in this, too, where perhaps students can find
> >>> relief from the stressful activity of getting a program to work by
> >>> writing essays on how all computer scientists should in fact refuse to
> >>> pursue activities not regarded as ethical by the ACM.
> >> (Hal Heydt)
> >> Thinking back to my college years, I'd've found writting essays
> >> much more stressful than writing and debugging programs.
> >
> > Absolutely.
> >
> I also agree but I was never faced with programming deadlines.
> > More satisfying by far, also.
> Not so sure on that aspect. When employed as a programmer, there was
> pride through accomplishment, through achieving compliance with the
> system analysts' specifications or later when programming for myself,
> there was the further satisfaction of system design.

I was lucky enough to be writing scientific programs for myself, or at least
for research I was conducting with others.

On my first Thanksgiving in Texas I filled the four day weekend writing
a predator-prey model. I added feature after feature to the simple
model I dreamed up Thursday afternoon, finally having everything
added and debugged Sunday. And it gave reasonable results.

I was working until five am most of the weekend, dropping by the
remains of the bonfire (an A&M tradition) on the way home and
chatting with the people camped there. The bonfire at this point
was a ten foot tall pile of ashes wreathed in blue flames. Looked
very good in the pre-dawn light.

I remember it as one of the more enjoyable weekends of my life.
I don't think I'd see it that way if I had tried to write an essay.

> Perhaps the main satisfaction for my essay writing was avoiding stress
> by meeting a deadline or achieving a grade. But I am no Robertson Davies.

I am similar to him only in having trouble with my furnace.

William Hyde

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 22:17 UTC

In article <tvd12p$86p0$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 3/19/2023 2:11 PM, Don wrote:
>> Ted Nolan wrote:
>>> Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>> Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
>>>> Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
>>>> what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
>>>> social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
>>>> you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
>>>>
>>>> What would you write about?
>>>
>>> Well, I said a while ago that everybody prognosticating missed
>>> Cellphone Culture. So that. Probably weave the Musk "Delos D. Harriman"
>>> story in as the plot. That lets you bring in Space, Social Media, War,
>>> Cars, & Politics. Hopefully since it's 1963, we don't get a 70s ending..
>>
>> Yes! Cellphone Culture changed the world as we knew it. Meanwhile the
>> meta-verse fights for control of grandpa's websites...
>>
>> Danke,
>
>Robert Heinlein talked about mobile phones in his 1948 book, "Space Cadet".
>
>Lynn
>
>

Sure, but a mobile phone is not a cellphone, and nobody in the book
spent their day hunched over one.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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From: ala...@sabir.com (Chris Buckley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
Date: 21 Mar 2023 22:31:03 GMT
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 by: Chris Buckley - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 22:31 UTC

On 2023-03-21, pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:41:49 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>> On 21/03/23 15:18, Garrett Wollman wrote:
>> snip
>> > mark. The author was some flavor of techno-libertarian and was
>> > certain that nation-states would have completely dissolved by then and
>> > everyone would belong to the state of their choice without regard to
>> > where they lived or what they did. (I can think of a few modern
>> > writers with better thought out takes on this idea.)
>> I don't think I have come across that societal possibility for people
>> and am interested. Would you please provide a title or two?
>> (If more than two, please rank them :-))
>
> Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" for one.
>
> pt

If you want a very quirky, heavily political, very ambitious series, try
_Terra Ignota_ by Ada Palmer. It certainly covers the societal issues
in far more depth than Stephenson's book which was reasonably near future.
Palmer's series is set in the 2400's and the society is quite different.

I'm not sure whether to recommend it. I admire it greatly, but for
whatever reason have only read the first three books of the four book
quartet. I think too many ideas...

The author is a University of Chicago historian, and the some of the
politics are greatly influenced by the 18th century Age of Enlightenment.
Perhaps if I knew that era better, I would appreciate more of the
clashes between philosophies.

It was nominated for numerous awards without coming close to winning.

I'm also not sure whether to tell you to read the Wikipedia page
on it. It would have helped me understand what was going on a lot
sooner than I did, but that was intentional on the part of the author.
She definitely believes in just throwing you into the world.

Chris

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From: noo...@nowhere.com (Titus G)
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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
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 by: Titus G - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 02:08 UTC

On 22/03/23 02:01, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:41:49 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>> On 21/03/23 15:18, Garrett Wollman wrote:
>> snip
>>> mark. The author was some flavor of techno-libertarian and was
>>> certain that nation-states would have completely dissolved by then and
>>> everyone would belong to the state of their choice without regard to
>>> where they lived or what they did. (I can think of a few modern
>>> writers with better thought out takes on this idea.)

>> I don't think I have come across that societal possibility for people
>> and am interested. Would you please provide a title or two?
>> (If more than two, please rank them :-))
>
> Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" for one.
>
> pt

Prior to my reply to Garrett Wollman, I had the vague idea that
Stephenson had written something but looked up Snow Crash.
I have read Diamond Age but a long time ago. Both of these Stephenson
books were brilliant and I now intend to read them again. Thank you.

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 by: Titus G - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 07:11 UTC

On 22/03/23 11:31, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2023-03-21, pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:41:49 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
>>> On 21/03/23 15:18, Garrett Wollman wrote:
>>> snip
>>>> mark. The author was some flavor of techno-libertarian and was
>>>> certain that nation-states would have completely dissolved by then and
>>>> everyone would belong to the state of their choice without regard to
>>>> where they lived or what they did. (I can think of a few modern
>>>> writers with better thought out takes on this idea.)
>>> I don't think I have come across that societal possibility for people
>>> and am interested. Would you please provide a title or two?
>>> (If more than two, please rank them :-))
>>
>> Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age" for one.
>>
>> pt
>
> If you want a very quirky, heavily political, very ambitious series, try
> _Terra Ignota_ by Ada Palmer. It certainly covers the societal issues
> in far more depth than Stephenson's book which was reasonably near future.
> Palmer's series is set in the 2400's and the society is quite different.
>
> I'm not sure whether to recommend it. I admire it greatly, but for
> whatever reason have only read the first three books of the four book
> quartet. I think too many ideas...

Although a bit apprehensive in regard to the size, (four books), I have
book 1, Too Like The Lightning and was immediately enchanted by the
first page, an introduction with publication permissions,
recommendations and ratings including such gems as:
Certified Nonproselytory By The Four-Hive Commission On Religion In
Literature.

I loved the style of the first paragraph of Chapter the FIRST and am
looking forward to reading more. Thank you.

> The author is a University of Chicago historian, and the some of the
> politics are greatly influenced by the 18th century Age of Enlightenment.
> Perhaps if I knew that era better, I would appreciate more of the
> clashes between philosophies.
>
> It was nominated for numerous awards without coming close to winning.
>
> I'm also not sure whether to tell you to read the Wikipedia page
> on it. It would have helped me understand what was going on a lot
> sooner than I did, but that was intentional on the part of the author.
> She definitely believes in just throwing you into the world.
>
> Chris

Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.

<tvlh80$1t4ir$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 14:02:52 +1300
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 by: Titus G - Sat, 25 Mar 2023 01:02 UTC

> On 22/03/23 11:31, Chris Buckley wrote:snip
>> If you want a very quirky, heavily political, very ambitious series, try
>> _Terra Ignota_ by Ada Palmer. snip
>> I'm not sure whether to recommend it. I admire it greatly, but for
>> whatever reason have only read the first three books of the four book
>> quartet. I think too many ideas...

Having read only 4 or 5 chapters of book 1, Too Like The Lightning, I
see what you mean. The "too many ideas" is making reading rather slow
because of the distractions and I am already aware that there will be
levels beyond my literary comprehension. But I am fascinated being a
fish out of water in an amazing environment with intense characters in a
stateless society with such precise social mores. I hope this
fascination lasts for me longer than it did for you.

snip>> The author is a University of Chicago historian, and the some of the
>> politics are greatly influenced by the 18th century Age of Enlightenment.
>> Perhaps if I knew that era better, I would appreciate more of the
>> clashes between philosophies.

I might have a brief excursion to Wikipedia to gain a better outline.

>> It was nominated for numerous awards without coming close to winning.
>>
>> I'm also not sure whether to tell you to read the Wikipedia page
>> on it. It would have helped me understand what was going on a lot
>> sooner than I did, but that was intentional on the part of the author.
>> She definitely believes in just throwing you into the world.
>>
>> Chris
>

After reading that, I chose to go in cold turkey. I enjoy the minor
epiphanies when something obscure is interpreted correctly. So far the
basic conflict appears to be clear. Her writing style, which I enjoy,
slows me down and she references much that is unknown to me as well as
that which is yet to be explained. e.g. "bash's" perhaps meaning home
later explained to be from a Japanese word a little more complex than
"home".
The Dedication is "to the first human who thought to hollow out a log to
make a boat and his or her successors" so when I encountered "the Nina,
the Pinta, Apollo XI, the Mukta", a web search disclosed that Mukta is
Sanskrit for set free or liberated from the binding suffering of
sentient life. Since the term is translated in past tense, some Sanskirt
scholars believe that it describes a freedom that which has already
happened, and we have to train the mind to release and find this freedom
from within. And in this book the "Mukta" is something from long in the
past like the Apollo program and although I do not yet know the story of
the physical Mukta which I assume will be a 'vessel' in this book, I can
anticipate an analogy to the sociological upheaval implied to "train the
mind to release and find this freedom from within". I am loving it but
as you said to begin with, "too many ideas". I am not an intellectual
with a grounding in ancient history and philosophy but am already sure
that I am going to enjoy it at a lesser level.
I have woffled on perhaps too much but wished to thank you again for the
time spent on your recommendation. Thank you.

Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.

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From: noo...@nowhere.com (Titus G)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:26:52 +1200
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 by: Titus G - Wed, 26 Jul 2023 04:26 UTC

On 25/03/23 14:02, Titus G wrote:
>> On 22/03/23 11:31, Chris Buckley wrote:snip
>>> If you want a very quirky, heavily political, very ambitious series, try
>>> _Terra Ignota_ by Ada Palmer. snip
>>> I'm not sure whether to recommend it. I admire it greatly, but for
>>> whatever reason have only read the first three books of the four book
>>> quartet. I think too many ideas...
>
> Having read only 4 or 5 chapters of book 1, Too Like The Lightning, I
> see what you mean. The "too many ideas" is making reading rather slow
> because of the distractions and I am already aware that there will be
> levels beyond my literary comprehension. But I am fascinated being a
> fish out of water in an amazing environment with intense characters in a
> stateless society with such precise social mores. I hope this
> fascination lasts for me longer than it did for you.

Sometimes I wish I was as clever and articulate as Ada Palmer. Book one
was amazing for ideas and concepts especially the world building of
society with no nation states. But by book three, my growing familiarity
with characters and understanding of how society operated made the slow
moving plot and philosophies more important. I finished the third book a
few months ago but it was a bit of a struggle with little happening but
mainly interpretation of events from different perspectives so have been
hesitant to start book four which is close to 1,000 pages.

>
> snip>> The author is a University of Chicago historian, and the some of the
>>> politics are greatly influenced by the 18th century Age of Enlightenment.
>>> Perhaps if I knew that era better, I would appreciate more of the
>>> clashes between philosophies.

The influence of De Sade was too pronounced for my taste later in book
one making events and the associations of the Hive leaders less
plausible but that was the only negative.

snip
>>> I'm also not sure whether to tell you to read the Wikipedia page
>>> on it. It would have helped me understand what was going on a lot
>>> sooner than I did, but that was intentional on the part of the author.
>>> She definitely believes in just throwing you into the world.

Yes. I chose that way and am glad I did. I have read the Wikipedia page
since and found it a useful summary.
snip

Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.

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From: mail...@cpacker.org (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Terra Ignota. Ada Palmer.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
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 by: Charles Packer - Wed, 26 Jul 2023 07:39 UTC

On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:26:52 +1200, Titus G wrote:

> On 25/03/23 14:02, Titus G wrote:
>>> On 22/03/23 11:31, Chris Buckley wrote:snip
>>>> If you want a very quirky, heavily political, very ambitious series,
>>>> try _Terra Ignota_ by Ada Palmer. snip I'm not sure whether to
>>>> recommend it. I admire it greatly, but for whatever reason have only
>>>> read the first three books of the four book quartet. I think too
>>>> many ideas...

As a child, Ada Palmer must have owned one hell of a dollhouse.

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:54 UTC

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:34:34 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2023-03-19 11:50 a.m., Thomas Koenig wrote:
> > Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
> > Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
> > what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
> > social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
> > you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
> >
> > What would you write about?
> Whatever it was, it would have to be heavy on the internet since that's
> the most science fictiony thing about actual 21st century life.
> Sometimes I think about how far you'd have to go back in time for a
> modern story to work as science fiction and it's usually pretty far back
> unless someone in the story has a strong online involvement

The earliest story I can think of that was clearly Internet inspired is "True
Names" by Vernor Vinge (1981). However, most non-computer people didn't
really become internet aware until 1993, which had both The September Which
Never Ended, and the introduction of the NCSA Mosaic browser, which
brought the WWW.

pt

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From: jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:00:23 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: James Nicoll - Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:00 UTC

In article <6e71cd33-1087-427a-8000-2fcc1acc58d2n@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:34:34 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2023-03-19 11:50 a.m., Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> > Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
>> > Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
>> > what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
>> > social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
>> > you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
>> >
>> > What would you write about?
>> Whatever it was, it would have to be heavy on the internet since that's
>> the most science fictiony thing about actual 21st century life.
>> Sometimes I think about how far you'd have to go back in time for a
>> modern story to work as science fiction and it's usually pretty far back
>> unless someone in the story has a strong online involvement
>
>The earliest story I can think of that was clearly Internet inspired is "True
>Names" by Vernor Vinge (1981). However, most non-computer people didn't
>really become internet aware until 1993, which had both The September Which
>Never Ended, and the introduction of the NCSA Mosaic browser, which
>brought the WWW.

ObA Logic Name Joe: A Logic Named Joe.

Poul Anderson came very close to imagining the World Wide Web in his
1971 The Byworlder... except for the detail all output was hardcopy.

ObThe Machine Stops: The Machine Stops.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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From: g...@crcomp.net (Don)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:43:34 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Don - Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:43 UTC

pete wrote:
> David Johnston wrote:
>> Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> > Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
>> > Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
>> > what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
>> > social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
>> > you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
>> >
>> > What would you write about?
>> Whatever it was, it would have to be heavy on the internet since that's
>> the most science fictiony thing about actual 21st century life.
>> Sometimes I think about how far you'd have to go back in time for a
>> modern story to work as science fiction and it's usually pretty far back
>> unless someone in the story has a strong online involvement
>
> The earliest story I can think of that was clearly Internet inspired is "True
> Names" by Vernor Vinge (1981). However, most non-computer people didn't
> really become internet aware until 1993, which had both The September Which
> Never Ended, and the introduction of the NCSA Mosaic browser, which
> brought the WWW.

Nobody expects the Vanish Imposition...

"We wanted flying cars, instead we got 140 characters"

"You promised me Mars, and all I got was Facebook"

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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 by: artyw2@yahoo.com - Wed, 26 Jul 2023 20:04 UTC

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 1:50:30 PM UTC-4, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
> Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
> what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
> social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
> you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
>
> What would you write about?

I would have written, Make Room, Make Room, but with Door Dash.

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 02:36:25 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Default User - Thu, 27 Jul 2023 02:36 UTC

pete...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:34:34 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 2023-03-19 11:50 a.m., Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> > Suppose you're an aspiring SF writer 60 years ago, 1963.
>> > Through some *hand wave*, you get access to information about
>> > what has happened in the meantime - technology, major events,
>> > social changes etc, Internet, social media, you name it, and
>> > you decide to write a major novel set in 2023.
>> >
>> > What would you write about?
>> Whatever it was, it would have to be heavy on the internet since
>>that's the most science fictiony thing about actual 21st century
>>life. Sometimes I think about how far you'd have to go back in
>>time for a modern story to work as science fiction and it's
>>usually pretty far back unless someone in the story has a strong
>>online involvement
>
>The earliest story I can think of that was clearly Internet inspired
>is "True Names" by Vernor Vinge (1981). However, most non-computer
>people didn't really become internet aware until 1993, which had both
>The September Which Never Ended, and the introduction of the NCSA
>Mosaic browser, which brought the WWW.

Last year I discussed a 1969 story - "Five Way Secret Agent" by Mack
Reynolds. Part of that discussed technology:

For a 1969 book, it had some definite hits. In the US, everyone not
only has but is required to have a "TV phone". That serves as a
combination phone, information device (although through the government
National Database), payment device, and identification. Not exactly a
modern smart-phone, but in the ballpark.

The government can also track people and use it as a listening device
as needed. While there aren't home computers as we know it, the larger
TV in the home came be used to access data and make orders for delivery
etc. And of course the government can spy through it. Those in the know
have shielded rooms with no TVs.

Brian

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Thu, 27 Jul 2023 11:56 UTC

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:06:27 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> As I recall, Russia abandoned communism
> but managed to preserve the unpleasantness.

And that was prophetic, since that's exactly what happened!

John Savard

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
From: jsav...@ecn.ab.ca (Quadibloc)
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 by: Quadibloc - Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:05 UTC

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 8:36:30 PM UTC-6, Default User wrote:

> Last year I discussed a 1969 story - "Five Way Secret Agent" by Mack
> Reynolds. Part of that discussed technology:

> For a 1969 book, it had some definite hits. In the US, everyone not
> only has but is required to have a "TV phone". That serves as a
> combination phone, information device (although through the government
> National Database), payment device, and identification. Not exactly a
> modern smart-phone, but in the ballpark.

> The government can also track people and use it as a listening device
> as needed. While there aren't home computers as we know it, the larger
> TV in the home came be used to access data and make orders for delivery
> etc. And of course the government can spy through it. Those in the know
> have shielded rooms with no TVs.

Hmm. Sounds like Mack Reynolds was inspired by 1984, but just decided that
he would update the technology by making the telescreens portable.

John Savard

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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 by: Robert Woodward - Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:39 UTC

In article <7a6f3472-27f2-4679-9cf3-6a27277fc97fn@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:06:27?AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> > As I recall, Russia abandoned communism
> > but managed to preserve the unpleasantness.
>
> And that was prophetic, since that's exactly what happened!
>

But it wasn't that much of a stretch, since Russia had abandoned Tsarist
autocracy, but still preserved the unpleasantness.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963

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Subject: Re: A SF novel set in today's 2023, written in 1963
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 03:35:04 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Default User - Fri, 28 Jul 2023 03:35 UTC

Quadibloc wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 8:36:30 PM UTC-6, Default User wrote:
>
>> Last year I discussed a 1969 story - "Five Way Secret Agent" by
>>Mack Reynolds. Part of that discussed technology:

>Hmm. Sounds like Mack Reynolds was inspired by 1984, but just decided
>that he would update the technology by making the telescreens
>portable.

Well, 1984 was about a lot more than that. In general, things in
Reynolds's America aren't too bad. It's democratic, at least at the
time, with a decent dole for those that can't or don't work (although
you lose the right to vote).

It's best not to leap to conclusions without reading the actual work.
Of course, some people here seem able to leap to erroneous conclusions
even AFTER reading the work.

Brian

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