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arts / rec.arts.sf.written / Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

SubjectAuthor
* (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJames Nicoll
+- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltLynn McGuire
+* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltLynn McGuire
|+- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltRobert Carnegie
|`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltRobert Woodward
| `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltLynn McGuire
|  +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDimensional Traveler
|  |`- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltLynn McGuire
|  `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltRobert Woodward
|   +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltScott Lurndal
|   +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJack Bohn
|   +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltLynn McGuire
|   |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltRobert Carnegie
|   | `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJames Nicoll
|   `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltAndrew McDowell
|    +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJames Nicoll
|    +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltRobert Woodward
|    |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltAndrew McDowell
|    | `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltTitus G
|    +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDimensional Traveler
|    `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltLynn McGuire
+* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltQuadibloc
|+* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltpete...@gmail.com
||`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltTitus G
|| +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
|| |+* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJack Bohn
|| ||`- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
|| |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltTitus G
|| | +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltChristian Weisgerber
|| | `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
|| |  `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltScott Lurndal
|| `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJaimie Vandenbergh
||  +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltRobert Carnegie
||  |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  | `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltRobert Carnegie
||  |  `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDimensional Traveler
||  |   +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |   |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltScott Lurndal
||  |   | `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |   |  +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
||  |   |  |`- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltChristian Weisgerber
||  |   |  +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDimensional Traveler
||  |   |  |`- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |   |  `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDorothy J Heydt
||  |   |   +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDimensional Traveler
||  |   |   `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |   |    `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltpete...@gmail.com
||  |   `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltThe Horny Goat
||  |    `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |     +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltChristian Weisgerber
||  |     `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltThe Horny Goat
||  |      `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |       `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJohn Halpenny
||  |        +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDimensional Traveler
||  |        |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |        | `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltDimensional Traveler
||  |        |  `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |        |   `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltpete...@gmail.com
||  |        |    +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltScott Lurndal
||  |        |    `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |        |     +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJack Bohn
||  |        |     |`- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |        |     `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  |        `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
||  `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltTitus G
|`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
| +- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
| +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJames Nicoll
| |+- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
| |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltChristian Weisgerber
| | `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
| `* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltScott Lurndal
|  +* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJames Nicoll
|  |`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltpete...@gmail.com
|  | `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
|  `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltPaul S Person
+- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltButch Malahide
`* Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid BeltJohnny1A
 `- Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Beltted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan

Pages:1234
Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:57 UTC

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>

>[1] I would need the article to be sure, but my memory and my letter
>suggest that the author asserted that 4:3 TVs were only for films that
>would fill that screen, and 16:9 TVs were only for films that were
>wider.=20

Perhaps one or the other of you were confused about the impact
of an anamorphic lens, where a 2.39:1 aspect ratio is warped to fit in a
35mm (1.375:1) frame and the projection lens reverses the warp.

There was a lot of confusion vis-a-vis 4:3 (1.375:1 Academy gate [1939]),
2.39:1 (wide screen) and 16:9 television aspect ratios.

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 09:08:03 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 16:08 UTC

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:57:14 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>
>>[1] I would need the article to be sure, but my memory and my letter
>>suggest that the author asserted that 4:3 TVs were only for films that
>>would fill that screen, and 16:9 TVs were only for films that were
>>wider.=20
>
>Perhaps one or the other of you were confused about the impact
>of an anamorphic lens, where a 2.39:1 aspect ratio is warped to fit in a
>35mm (1.375:1) frame and the projection lens reverses the warp.

I may not have figured out "anamorphic" yet [1], but I did know that
movie aspect ratios and TV aspect ratios were not the same thing.

The confusion was with the author of the review.

I don't know that I had figured out the difference between TV screens
and theater screens in this regard: a TV screen has a fixed /width/,
so if the film has a higher aspect ratio, the image is reduce
vertically; a theater screen generally has a fixed /height/, so if the
film has a higher aspect ratio, they pull back the curtains and reveal
a wider screen.

BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
then.

[1] I got a vivid demonstration at a movie theater where they didn't
put the lens on and everyone was Very Thin and Very Tall until they
corrected the oversight. And /that/ was when theaters made enough
money to hire projectionists; those days, apparently, are behind us in
many cases.

>There was a lot of confusion vis-a-vis 4:3 (1.375:1 Academy gate [1939]),
>2.39:1 (wide screen) and 16:9 television aspect ratios.

IIRC, anything beyond 1.85:1 is "widescreen". And "widescreen" films
with aspect ratios as low as 2.00:1 appear to exist. Films wider than
2.39:1 also exist. And 2.35:1 seems to me, from reading unending DVD
cases, to be the most common "widescreen" aspect ratio.

And "widescreen" is often used, on DVDs, as a synomym for
"anamorphic", including 1:85:1 and even 1.66:1 (animated films
intended to be shown in Europe, IIRC). Heck, my /Dawn Treader/ DVD
claims to be "Widescreen 1.78:1" which, since the film is in fact
presented at 1.78:1 (apparently unrolled and with a higher lighting
level), suggests that /someone/ believes "widescreen" means "greater
than 4:3 [1.33:1]" (which would include Academy ratio 1.375:1).

The irony there is that, if we take 1.85:1 as the current /normal/
aspect ratio, then 1.78:1 is, in point of fact, "narrowscreen".

In retrospect, a certain standardization should have been enforced:
-- films shown on the TV at 4:3 should be marked "4:3 FS" (FS being
"fullscreen")
-- films shown on the TV at 16:9 should be marked "16:9 FS"
-- any that were actually /done/ at 4:3 or 16.9 should have "OAR"
("original aspect ratio") attached
-- those that were not should have "P&S" attached ("pan and scan")
-- unless they were unrolled, in which case they should have "UNR"
attached ("unrolled")
-- other aspect ratios should have "LB" attached ("letterboxed")

so instead of having "Widescreen 1.78:1" we would have whichever of
these applies:
-- 1.78:1 FS P&S
-- 1.78:1 FS UNR

but, of course, it is /far/ too late for that.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<k8gi5qFa78jU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: 28 Mar 2023 16:15:55 GMT
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 16:15 UTC

In article <0q262it29vdka6jc6ks0o8fc4ce3mlvk0g@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:57:14 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>[1] I would need the article to be sure, but my memory and my letter
>>>suggest that the author asserted that 4:3 TVs were only for films that
>>>would fill that screen, and 16:9 TVs were only for films that were
>>>wider.=20
>>
>>Perhaps one or the other of you were confused about the impact
>>of an anamorphic lens, where a 2.39:1 aspect ratio is warped to fit in a
>>35mm (1.375:1) frame and the projection lens reverses the warp.
>
>I may not have figured out "anamorphic" yet [1], but I did know that
>movie aspect ratios and TV aspect ratios were not the same thing.
>
>The confusion was with the author of the review.
>
>I don't know that I had figured out the difference between TV screens
>and theater screens in this regard: a TV screen has a fixed /width/,
>so if the film has a higher aspect ratio, the image is reduce
>vertically; a theater screen generally has a fixed /height/, so if the
>film has a higher aspect ratio, they pull back the curtains and reveal
>a wider screen.
>
>BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
>Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
>violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
>they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
>knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
>then.
>
>[1] I got a vivid demonstration at a movie theater where they didn't
>put the lens on and everyone was Very Thin and Very Tall until they
>corrected the oversight. And /that/ was when theaters made enough
>money to hire projectionists; those days, apparently, are behind us in
>many cases.
>
>>There was a lot of confusion vis-a-vis 4:3 (1.375:1 Academy gate [1939]),
>>2.39:1 (wide screen) and 16:9 television aspect ratios.
>
>IIRC, anything beyond 1.85:1 is "widescreen". And "widescreen" films
>with aspect ratios as low as 2.00:1 appear to exist. Films wider than
>2.39:1 also exist. And 2.35:1 seems to me, from reading unending DVD
>cases, to be the most common "widescreen" aspect ratio.
>
>And "widescreen" is often used, on DVDs, as a synomym for
>"anamorphic", including 1:85:1 and even 1.66:1 (animated films
>intended to be shown in Europe, IIRC). Heck, my /Dawn Treader/ DVD
>claims to be "Widescreen 1.78:1" which, since the film is in fact
>presented at 1.78:1 (apparently unrolled and with a higher lighting
>level), suggests that /someone/ believes "widescreen" means "greater
>than 4:3 [1.33:1]" (which would include Academy ratio 1.375:1).
>
>The irony there is that, if we take 1.85:1 as the current /normal/
>aspect ratio, then 1.78:1 is, in point of fact, "narrowscreen".
>
>In retrospect, a certain standardization should have been enforced:
>-- films shown on the TV at 4:3 should be marked "4:3 FS" (FS being
>"fullscreen")
>-- films shown on the TV at 16:9 should be marked "16:9 FS"
>-- any that were actually /done/ at 4:3 or 16.9 should have "OAR"
>("original aspect ratio") attached
>-- those that were not should have "P&S" attached ("pan and scan")
>-- unless they were unrolled, in which case they should have "UNR"
>attached ("unrolled")
>-- other aspect ratios should have "LB" attached ("letterboxed")
>
>so instead of having "Widescreen 1.78:1" we would have whichever of
>these applies:
>-- 1.78:1 FS P&S
>-- 1.78:1 FS UNR
>
>but, of course, it is /far/ too late for that.
>--

Judging by what I see online, the first 9:16 movie can't be far in
the future.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 09:18:14 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 16:18 UTC

On 3/28/2023 9:08 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:57:14 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
> wrote:
>
>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> [1] I would need the article to be sure, but my memory and my letter
>>> suggest that the author asserted that 4:3 TVs were only for films that
>>> would fill that screen, and 16:9 TVs were only for films that were
>>> wider.=20
>>
>> Perhaps one or the other of you were confused about the impact
>> of an anamorphic lens, where a 2.39:1 aspect ratio is warped to fit in a
>> 35mm (1.375:1) frame and the projection lens reverses the warp.
>
> I may not have figured out "anamorphic" yet [1], but I did know that
> movie aspect ratios and TV aspect ratios were not the same thing.
>
> The confusion was with the author of the review.
>
> I don't know that I had figured out the difference between TV screens
> and theater screens in this regard: a TV screen has a fixed /width/,
> so if the film has a higher aspect ratio, the image is reduce
> vertically; a theater screen generally has a fixed /height/, so if the
> film has a higher aspect ratio, they pull back the curtains and reveal
> a wider screen.
>
> BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
> Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
> violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
> they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
> knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
> then.
>
> [1] I got a vivid demonstration at a movie theater where they didn't
> put the lens on and everyone was Very Thin and Very Tall until they
> corrected the oversight. And /that/ was when theaters made enough
> money to hire projectionists; those days, apparently, are behind us in
> many cases.
>
>> There was a lot of confusion vis-a-vis 4:3 (1.375:1 Academy gate [1939]),
>> 2.39:1 (wide screen) and 16:9 television aspect ratios.
>
> IIRC, anything beyond 1.85:1 is "widescreen". And "widescreen" films
> with aspect ratios as low as 2.00:1 appear to exist. Films wider than
> 2.39:1 also exist. And 2.35:1 seems to me, from reading unending DVD
> cases, to be the most common "widescreen" aspect ratio.
>
> And "widescreen" is often used, on DVDs, as a synomym for
> "anamorphic", including 1:85:1 and even 1.66:1 (animated films
> intended to be shown in Europe, IIRC). Heck, my /Dawn Treader/ DVD
> claims to be "Widescreen 1.78:1" which, since the film is in fact
> presented at 1.78:1 (apparently unrolled and with a higher lighting
> level), suggests that /someone/ believes "widescreen" means "greater
> than 4:3 [1.33:1]" (which would include Academy ratio 1.375:1).
>
> The irony there is that, if we take 1.85:1 as the current /normal/
> aspect ratio, then 1.78:1 is, in point of fact, "narrowscreen".
>
> In retrospect, a certain standardization should have been enforced:
> -- films shown on the TV at 4:3 should be marked "4:3 FS" (FS being
> "fullscreen")
> -- films shown on the TV at 16:9 should be marked "16:9 FS"
> -- any that were actually /done/ at 4:3 or 16.9 should have "OAR"
> ("original aspect ratio") attached
> -- those that were not should have "P&S" attached ("pan and scan")
> -- unless they were unrolled, in which case they should have "UNR"
> attached ("unrolled")
> -- other aspect ratios should have "LB" attached ("letterboxed")
>
> so instead of having "Widescreen 1.78:1" we would have whichever of
> these applies:
> -- 1.78:1 FS P&S
> -- 1.78:1 FS UNR
>
> but, of course, it is /far/ too late for that.

Not to mention far too confusing for the average viewer.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<slrnu26agt.2s2a.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 17:55:41 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <slrnu26agt.2s2a.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
References: <ad2df3be-c7ee-4ffc-a79e-42e6dcaebce0n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 17:55 UTC

On 2023-03-28, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:

> Judging by what I see online, the first 9:16 movie can't be far in
> the future.

Well, Steven Soderbergh shot a whole movie, _Unsane_ (2018), on an
iPhone. That one has an aspect ratio of 1.56 : 1, according to
IMDb.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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From: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Message-ID: <rs8x3D.AKx@kithrup.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 19:35:37 GMT
References: <ad2df3be-c7ee-4ffc-a79e-42e6dcaebce0n@googlegroups.com> <ndf32it1quths4il72ok2hpo5ec6ikit0f@4ax.com> <KVjUL.2142421$GNG9.1489439@fx18.iad> <0q262it29vdka6jc6ks0o8fc4ce3mlvk0g@4ax.com>
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
 by: Dorothy J Heydt - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 19:35 UTC

In article <0q262it29vdka6jc6ks0o8fc4ce3mlvk0g@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
>Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
>violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
>they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
>knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
>then.

(Hal Heydt)
Recording broadcasts isn't illegal, at least in the US. That was
settled with regard to tape recorders and then reinforced in the
Betamax decision.

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2023 14:04:35 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Tue, 28 Mar 2023 21:04 UTC

On 3/28/2023 12:35 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <0q262it29vdka6jc6ks0o8fc4ce3mlvk0g@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
>> Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
>> violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
>> they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
>> knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
>> then.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> Recording broadcasts isn't illegal, at least in the US. That was
> settled with regard to tape recorders and then reinforced in the
> Betamax decision.

But there is also no law preventing the companies that make movies and
TV shows from buying up all the companies that make equipment that the
public can use to record broadcasts and _removing_ such functionality
from all their products. Or encoding their broadcasts such that
recording in impossible.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<u6n82idul4khlai7fkdr3i08gqa9kt21gd@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:51:04 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 29 Mar 2023 15:51 UTC

On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 09:18:14 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 3/28/2023 9:08 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:57:14 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>> [1] I would need the article to be sure, but my memory and my letter
>>>> suggest that the author asserted that 4:3 TVs were only for films that
>>>> would fill that screen, and 16:9 TVs were only for films that were
>>>> wider.=20
>>>
>>> Perhaps one or the other of you were confused about the impact
>>> of an anamorphic lens, where a 2.39:1 aspect ratio is warped to fit in a
>>> 35mm (1.375:1) frame and the projection lens reverses the warp.
>>
>> I may not have figured out "anamorphic" yet [1], but I did know that
>> movie aspect ratios and TV aspect ratios were not the same thing.
>>
>> The confusion was with the author of the review.
>>
>> I don't know that I had figured out the difference between TV screens
>> and theater screens in this regard: a TV screen has a fixed /width/,
>> so if the film has a higher aspect ratio, the image is reduce
>> vertically; a theater screen generally has a fixed /height/, so if the
>> film has a higher aspect ratio, they pull back the curtains and reveal
>> a wider screen.
>>
>> BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
>> Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
>> violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
>> they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
>> knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
>> then.
>>
>> [1] I got a vivid demonstration at a movie theater where they didn't
>> put the lens on and everyone was Very Thin and Very Tall until they
>> corrected the oversight. And /that/ was when theaters made enough
>> money to hire projectionists; those days, apparently, are behind us in
>> many cases.
>>
>>> There was a lot of confusion vis-a-vis 4:3 (1.375:1 Academy gate [1939]),
>>> 2.39:1 (wide screen) and 16:9 television aspect ratios.
>>
>> IIRC, anything beyond 1.85:1 is "widescreen". And "widescreen" films
>> with aspect ratios as low as 2.00:1 appear to exist. Films wider than
>> 2.39:1 also exist. And 2.35:1 seems to me, from reading unending DVD
>> cases, to be the most common "widescreen" aspect ratio.
>>
>> And "widescreen" is often used, on DVDs, as a synomym for
>> "anamorphic", including 1:85:1 and even 1.66:1 (animated films
>> intended to be shown in Europe, IIRC). Heck, my /Dawn Treader/ DVD
>> claims to be "Widescreen 1.78:1" which, since the film is in fact
>> presented at 1.78:1 (apparently unrolled and with a higher lighting
>> level), suggests that /someone/ believes "widescreen" means "greater
>> than 4:3 [1.33:1]" (which would include Academy ratio 1.375:1).
>>
>> The irony there is that, if we take 1.85:1 as the current /normal/
>> aspect ratio, then 1.78:1 is, in point of fact, "narrowscreen".
>>
>> In retrospect, a certain standardization should have been enforced:
>> -- films shown on the TV at 4:3 should be marked "4:3 FS" (FS being
>> "fullscreen")
>> -- films shown on the TV at 16:9 should be marked "16:9 FS"
>> -- any that were actually /done/ at 4:3 or 16.9 should have "OAR"
>> ("original aspect ratio") attached
>> -- those that were not should have "P&S" attached ("pan and scan")
>> -- unless they were unrolled, in which case they should have "UNR"
>> attached ("unrolled")
>> -- other aspect ratios should have "LB" attached ("letterboxed")
>>
>> so instead of having "Widescreen 1.78:1" we would have whichever of
>> these applies:
>> -- 1.78:1 FS P&S
>> -- 1.78:1 FS UNR
>>
>> but, of course, it is /far/ too late for that.
>
>Not to mention far too confusing for the average viewer.

Less confusing than "1.78:1" being a synonymn for "anamorphic" when
the actual aspect ratio of the film as shown on the TV is 2.35:1, a
fact not mentioned on the packaging?

That solution may not be /ideal/, but the zoo of descriptions I have
had to deal with to figure whether a film is actually being presented
in its proper aspect ratio is not ideal either.

And Amazon mixing reviews for all versions together doesn't help at
all.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:55:24 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Wed, 29 Mar 2023 15:55 UTC

On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 19:35:37 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <0q262it29vdka6jc6ks0o8fc4ce3mlvk0g@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
>>Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
>>violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
>>they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
>>knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
>>then.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>Recording broadcasts isn't illegal, at least in the US. That was
>settled with regard to tape recorders and then reinforced in the
>Betamax decision.

IIRC, this was to allow timeshifting.

But, with VHS, it is possible to build an entire library of content
that you can watch over and over again without paying the copyright
holder anything. I'm not sure that's allowed.

And I would be /very/ surprised to find that this allows the further
copying and distribution of those copies to third parties.
Particularly if money changes hands.

Note that, AFAIK, DVRs were not (at least originally) designed to
allow anything but timeshifting.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<92057ee6-a084-4c3c-bf51-9fff80037d3fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Wed, 29 Mar 2023 17:45 UTC

On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 11:55:29 AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 19:35:37 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
>
> >In article <0q262it29vdka6jc6...@4ax.com>,
> >Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>BTW, they also objected to the fact that DVD Players /did not record/.
> >>Apparently, they believed that most of their target audience were into
> >>violating copyright laws by recording broadcast TV, and would cry if
> >>they had to actually comply with the law. The article showed no
> >>knowledge of DVRs, and DVRs may not even have been available back
> >>then.
> >
> >(Hal Heydt)
> >Recording broadcasts isn't illegal, at least in the US. That was
> >settled with regard to tape recorders and then reinforced in the
> >Betamax decision.
> IIRC, this was to allow timeshifting.
>
> But, with VHS, it is possible to build an entire library of content
> that you can watch over and over again without paying the copyright
> holder anything. I'm not sure that's allowed.
>
> And I would be /very/ surprised to find that this allows the further
> copying and distribution of those copies to third parties.
> Particularly if money changes hands.
>
> Note that, AFAIK, DVRs were not (at least originally) designed to
> allow anything but timeshifting.

My SonicBlue ReplayTV DVR, circa 2000, let me move videos to a PC
and burn them to disk.

It also had the ability to automatically skip ads when showing recorded shows, a
feature that led it into endless lawsuits, and eventually killed it.

pt

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Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
From: johnny1a...@gmail.com (Johnny1A)
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 by: Johnny1A - Sun, 2 Apr 2023 18:07 UTC

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 9:07:09 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
>
> Five old time SF stories suitable for fans of the Expanse.
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/03/22/five-vintage-sf-stories-from-the-asteroid-belt/
> --
> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

The WIlliamson Seetee stories, mentioned in the notes, are my personal favorite 'belter' stories. They have what is one of the more hair-raising presmise in SF, that a very substantial percentage of the mass of the asteroid belt is antimatter. It's mentioned in-story that for unknown reasons, most of the big rocks are matter, the percentage of AM rises as the chunks get smaller.

WIlliamson, unlike many authors of the age, gets the antimatter right (with one conditional exception). It looks and acts like matter, you can't tell it apart until there is contact. One character has a nifty antimatter detector, a device that combines a charge-particle emitter and a radiation sensor, if the stream of charged particles annihilate on contact the detector picks up the gamma rays. Occasionally, a matter and antimatter rock collide out there, flooding nearby space with hard radiation, it's a known hazard of space travel.

The conditional exception is that in the story, antimatter is time reversed.. That is, from out POV an antiobject ages backward, (and vice versa from theirs), but one can 'flip' into the other's time if it is too close to a large mass of the other.

I say 'conditional' because that was based on a real-science observation that antiparticles behaved rather like normal-matter particles moving backward in time. That is, an anti-proton repelled by an electron behaves identically to a normal proton attracted by the electron, but with the film running backwards. IIRC there was even a little speculation at one time that AM might actually be time reversed normal matter (or vice versa, depending on how you looked at it). But Williamson lifted it without noting (or deliberately ignoring) that this would make the 'time flip' plot device not work. Time flipped antimatter, in that scenario, would _cease top be antimatter_ once you time flipped it, it would just be normal terrene matter after that (or again, vice versa).

The backstory is also hair-raising. JW uses the idea that the asteroids are remnants of a disrupted planet. In the deep past, an antimatter planet entered the Solar System, collided with Planet Five orbiting between Mars and Jupiter, and the reaction shattered both worlds and scattered both matter and antimatter remnants all over the Solar System.

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<k8tvg9Fd8lkU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ...@ednolan (ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: 2 Apr 2023 18:23:06 GMT
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 by: ted@loft.tnolan.com - Sun, 2 Apr 2023 18:23 UTC

In article <01f34d29-8fcb-4e68-b9ae-3f665847db12n@googlegroups.com>,
Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 9:07:09 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
>>
>> Five old time SF stories suitable for fans of the Expanse.
>>
>>
>https://www.tor.com/2023/03/22/five-vintage-sf-stories-from-the-asteroid-belt/
>
>> --
>> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
>> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
>> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
>> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
>
>The WIlliamson Seetee stories, mentioned in the notes, are my personal
>favorite 'belter' stories. They have what is one of the more
>hair-raising presmise in SF, that a very substantial percentage of the
>mass of the asteroid belt is antimatter. It's mentioned in-story that
>for unknown reasons, most of the big rocks are matter, the percentage of
>AM rises as the chunks get smaller.
>
>WIlliamson, unlike many authors of the age, gets the antimatter right
>(with one conditional exception). It looks and acts like matter, you
>can't tell it apart until there is contact. One character has a nifty
>antimatter detector, a device that combines a charge-particle emitter
>and a radiation sensor, if the stream of charged particles annihilate on
>contact the detector picks up the gamma rays. Occasionally, a matter
>and antimatter rock collide out there, flooding nearby space with hard
>radiation, it's a known hazard of space travel.
>
>The conditional exception is that in the story, antimatter is time
>reversed. That is, from out POV an antiobject ages backward, (and vice
>versa from theirs), but one can 'flip' into the other's time if it is
>too close to a large mass of the other.
>
>I say 'conditional' because that was based on a real-science observation
>that antiparticles behaved rather like normal-matter particles moving
>backward in time. That is, an anti-proton repelled by an electron
>behaves identically to a normal proton attracted by the electron, but
>with the film running backwards. IIRC there was even a little
>speculation at one time that AM might actually be time reversed normal
>matter (or vice versa, depending on how you looked at it). But
>Williamson lifted it without noting (or deliberately ignoring) that this
>would make the 'time flip' plot device not work. Time flipped
>antimatter, in that scenario, would _cease top be antimatter_ once you
>time flipped it, it would just be normal terrene matter after that (or
>again, vice versa).
>
>The backstory is also hair-raising. JW uses the idea that the
>asteroids are remnants of a disrupted planet. In the deep past, an
>antimatter planet entered the Solar System, collided with Planet Five
>orbiting between Mars and Jupiter, and the reaction shattered both
>worlds and scattered both matter and antimatter remnants all over the
>Solar System.

I haven't read that in decades, I need to do a re-dive.

As I recall, a negative review of this book is what got Williamson a comic
strip writing job.

The idea of an exploded planet being the source of the belt figures in
lots of stories. I think Asimov even got into the Baker Street Irregulars
on the strength of the premise.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<upbm2i56su4iqf4iu34o3sj0dgi4c58n59@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Message-ID: <upbm2i56su4iqf4iu34o3sj0dgi4c58n59@4ax.com>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Mon, 3 Apr 2023 19:58 UTC

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>You should really go to rec.arts.tv. This get discussed there
>regularly. As for the showing a 4:3 image in a 16:9 space, when that is
>done people complain about how "the left and right sides are cut off!
>Where's the rest of my picture?!" Seriously, any black space around the
>edges gets complaints. Far too many people don't understand the basic
>concept of differing picture size ratios, so broadcasters feel they have
>to somehow fill the entire screen even if what they are showing isn't
>the same size as the audience's screens.

As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.

I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).

My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:43 UTC

On Mon, 03 Apr 2023 12:58:58 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 15:26:48 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>>You should really go to rec.arts.tv. This get discussed there
>>regularly. As for the showing a 4:3 image in a 16:9 space, when that is
>>done people complain about how "the left and right sides are cut off!
>>Where's the rest of my picture?!" Seriously, any black space around the
>>edges gets complaints. Far too many people don't understand the basic
>>concept of differing picture size ratios, so broadcasters feel they have
>>to somehow fill the entire screen even if what they are showing isn't
>>the same size as the audience's screens.
>
>As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>
>I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>
>My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)

I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
/was/ the diagonal.

Oh, well.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<slrnu2onhu.2tdk.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>

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From: nad...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2023 17:28:30 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Christian Weisgerber - Tue, 4 Apr 2023 17:28 UTC

On 2023-04-04, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>>I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>>didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>>
>>My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>>the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>>calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>>it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>
> I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
> /was/ the diagonal.

Sure, but width, height, and total area also affect "size".

A 4:3 screen with a 100 cm diagonal is 80 cm by 60 cm for a total
area of 4800 sq cm.

A 16:9 screen with the same 100 cm diagonal is about 87 cm by 49 cm,
i.e. wider but squatter, for a smaller total area of about 4270 sq cm.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<rm123idfmr84j7jmdqno1qmr2ski1ceama@4ax.com>

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From: lcra...@home.ca (The Horny Goat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Message-ID: <rm123idfmr84j7jmdqno1qmr2ski1ceama@4ax.com>
References: <ad2df3be-c7ee-4ffc-a79e-42e6dcaebce0n@googlegroups.com> <5b6a4f3f-20f9-4503-aae5-a978e344f171n@googlegroups.com> <tvj7nq$1h0e3$2@dont-email.me> <k88p4qF462nU1@mid.individual.net> <9b06ad52-ea36-4977-8e8e-e1c2b970b49an@googlegroups.com> <jfp02itjqfnr7sr6oq751r96cgrk258mva@4ax.com> <b8d1ea6f-53e9-4016-bd31-39a0f39975c4n@googlegroups.com> <tvqgr6$2sk6h$1@dont-email.me> <upbm2i56su4iqf4iu34o3sj0dgi4c58n59@4ax.com> <jcho2idi71gludjl76sj5gem257n6tuer3@4ax.com>
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 by: The Horny Goat - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 06:20 UTC

On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>>As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>>
>>I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>>didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>>
>>My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>>the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>>calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>>it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>
>I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
>/was/ the diagonal.
>
>Oh, well.

And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
diagonal.

In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.

You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
hand let me know

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<qi333ipdocbnkgba2mblmbfjg1sqhrheur@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2023 09:03:28 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul S Person - Sat, 8 Apr 2023 16:03 UTC

On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>>>
>>>I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>>>didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>>>
>>>My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>>>the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>>>calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>>>it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>>
>>I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
>>/was/ the diagonal.
>>
>>Oh, well.
>
>And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
>bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
>diagonal.
>
>In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
>16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
>
>You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
>hand let me know

Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
wife experienced.

In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)

ratio inches
4:3 20:15
16:9 21.79:12.26

suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
available space, and that it would visibly squatter.

(Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
simple solutions to this problem.)
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<795fd47d-fda3-4f50-a318-91defe58de51n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
From: j.halpe...@rogers.com (John Halpenny)
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 by: John Halpenny - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:27 UTC

On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 12:03:35 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> wrote:
> >On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
> ><pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>>As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
> >>>
> >>>I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
> >>>didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
> >>>
> >>>My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
> >>>the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
> >>>calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
> >>>it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
> >>
> >>I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
> >>/was/ the diagonal.
> >>
> >>Oh, well.
> >
> >And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
> >bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
> >diagonal.
> >
> >In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
> >16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
> >
> >You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
> >hand let me know
> Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
> space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
> have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
> wife experienced.
>
> In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
> that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)
>
> ratio inches
> 4:3 20:15
> 16:9 21.79:12.26
>
> suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
> available space, and that it would visibly squatter.
>
> (Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
> moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
> simple solutions to this problem.)
>
Do they sell wide screen TVs because you can get a larger number for the diagonal measurement for the same screen area ( or price)?

John

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<u1980q$11ns4$2@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=87326&group=rec.arts.sf.written#87326

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:44:27 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:44 UTC

On 4/13/2023 8:27 AM, John Halpenny wrote:
> On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 12:03:35 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
>>> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>>>>> didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>>>>>
>>>>> My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>>>>> the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>>>>> calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>>>>> it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>>>>
>>>> I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
>>>> /was/ the diagonal.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, well.
>>>
>>> And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
>>> bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
>>> diagonal.
>>>
>>> In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
>>> 16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
>>>
>>> You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
>>> hand let me know
>> Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
>> space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
>> have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
>> wife experienced.
>>
>> In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
>> that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)
>>
>> ratio inches
>> 4:3 20:15
>> 16:9 21.79:12.26
>>
>> suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
>> available space, and that it would visibly squatter.
>>
>> (Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
>> moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
>> simple solutions to this problem.)
>>
> Do they sell wide screen TVs because you can get a larger number for the diagonal measurement for the same screen area ( or price)?
>
I suspect that the "High Definition" formats tending to be widescreen
ratios has something to do with it.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<rvag3ile1bic0eo174f3ki6bnsn16aktb5@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=87328&group=rec.arts.sf.written#87328

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 09:25:59 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:25 UTC

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:44:27 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 4/13/2023 8:27 AM, John Halpenny wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 12:03:35?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
>>>> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>>>>>> didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>>>>>> the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>>>>>> calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>>>>>> it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>>>>>
>>>>> I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
>>>>> /was/ the diagonal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, well.
>>>>
>>>> And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
>>>> bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
>>>> diagonal.
>>>>
>>>> In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
>>>> 16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
>>>>
>>>> You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
>>>> hand let me know
>>> Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
>>> space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
>>> have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
>>> wife experienced.
>>>
>>> In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
>>> that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)
>>>
>>> ratio inches
>>> 4:3 20:15
>>> 16:9 21.79:12.26
>>>
>>> suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
>>> available space, and that it would visibly squatter.
>>>
>>> (Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
>>> moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
>>> simple solutions to this problem.)
>>>
>> Do they sell wide screen TVs because you can get a larger number for the diagonal measurement for the same screen area ( or price)?
>>
>I suspect that the "High Definition" formats tending to be widescreen
>ratios has something to do with it.

It is, of course, true that TV shows tend to be 16:9 rather than 4:3.
But that is more fitting the content to the standard screen size than
anything else.

SD and DVD are as likely to be 2.35:1 as HD and BD are. It depends on
the aspect ratio of the film, not the TV it is to be displayed on.

Well, early on there were a few exceptions. /The Robe/ was shot in
both Academy and widescreen (you can tell at the end from how much
space there is between the main characters, IIRC). This is similar to
/Dracula/, where two films were shot in lockstep on the same sets with
different casts and crews, one in English and one in Spanish.
Pan-and-scan and dubbing, however, were a lot easier.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<51ag3il6vdrvqi2a8eujtjd9qdu885pv9b@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
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Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 09:21:08 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:21 UTC

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:27:40 -0700 (PDT), John Halpenny
<j.halpenny@rogers.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 12:03:35?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>> >On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
>> ><pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>> >>>
>> >>>I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>> >>>didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>> >>>
>> >>>My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>> >>>the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>> >>>calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>> >>>it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>> >>
>> >>I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
>> >>/was/ the diagonal.
>> >>
>> >>Oh, well.
>> >
>> >And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
>> >bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
>> >diagonal.
>> >
>> >In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
>> >16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
>> >
>> >You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
>> >hand let me know
>> Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
>> space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
>> have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
>> wife experienced.
>>
>> In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
>> that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)
>>
>> ratio inches
>> 4:3 20:15
>> 16:9 21.79:12.26
>>
>> suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
>> available space, and that it would visibly squatter.
>>
>> (Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
>> moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
>> simple solutions to this problem.)
>>
>Do they sell wide screen TVs because you can get a larger number for the diagonal measurement for the same screen area ( or price)?

It's possible, I suppose.

The 25" diagonal 4:3 20:15 TV has an area of 300.
A 16:9 TV with a diagonal of 26.5" is 23.1:12.99 and has an area of
300.069.

The two would look very much the same size (ie, area).

Of course, the 16:9 TV is still wider and squatter than the 4:3 TV. A
diagonal of 31" at 16:9, however, would be 27.02:15.2. It would still
be wider, but the same height.

As to price, at the moment I would expect many 16:9 TVs to cost less
than 4:3 TVs -- if there are any 4:3 TVs actually available.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<u19rgt$14q3c$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=87347&group=rec.arts.sf.written#87347

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 14:17:19 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 21:17 UTC

On 4/13/2023 9:25 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:44:27 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 4/13/2023 8:27 AM, John Halpenny wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 12:03:35?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
>>>>> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>>>>>>> didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>>>>>>> the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>>>>>>> calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>>>>>>> it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
>>>>>> /was/ the diagonal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, well.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
>>>>> bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
>>>>> diagonal.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
>>>>> 16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
>>>>> hand let me know
>>>> Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
>>>> space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
>>>> have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
>>>> wife experienced.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
>>>> that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)
>>>>
>>>> ratio inches
>>>> 4:3 20:15
>>>> 16:9 21.79:12.26
>>>>
>>>> suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
>>>> available space, and that it would visibly squatter.
>>>>
>>>> (Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
>>>> moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
>>>> simple solutions to this problem.)
>>>>
>>> Do they sell wide screen TVs because you can get a larger number for the diagonal measurement for the same screen area ( or price)?
>>>
>> I suspect that the "High Definition" formats tending to be widescreen
>> ratios has something to do with it.
>
> It is, of course, true that TV shows tend to be 16:9 rather than 4:3.
> But that is more fitting the content to the standard screen size than
> anything else.
>
> SD and DVD are as likely to be 2.35:1 as HD and BD are. It depends on
> the aspect ratio of the film, not the TV it is to be displayed on.
>
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not but that was kind of my
point. The TV's changed to better fit the material they were going to
be displaying.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<25si3i50j5vuns30rjaibnc403idjjh8eo@4ax.com>

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From: psper...@old.netcom.invalid (Paul S Person)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 08:30:03 -0700
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 by: Paul S Person - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:30 UTC

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 14:17:19 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 4/13/2023 9:25 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:44:27 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/13/2023 8:27 AM, John Halpenny wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 12:03:35?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
>>>>>> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
>>>>>>>> didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
>>>>>>>> the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
>>>>>>>> calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
>>>>>>>> it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
>>>>>>> /was/ the diagonal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
>>>>>> bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
>>>>>> diagonal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
>>>>>> 16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
>>>>>> hand let me know
>>>>> Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
>>>>> space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
>>>>> have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
>>>>> wife experienced.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
>>>>> that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)
>>>>>
>>>>> ratio inches
>>>>> 4:3 20:15
>>>>> 16:9 21.79:12.26
>>>>>
>>>>> suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
>>>>> available space, and that it would visibly squatter.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
>>>>> moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
>>>>> simple solutions to this problem.)
>>>>>
>>>> Do they sell wide screen TVs because you can get a larger number for the diagonal measurement for the same screen area ( or price)?
>>>>
>>> I suspect that the "High Definition" formats tending to be widescreen
>>> ratios has something to do with it.
>>
>> It is, of course, true that TV shows tend to be 16:9 rather than 4:3.
>> But that is more fitting the content to the standard screen size than
>> anything else.
>>
>> SD and DVD are as likely to be 2.35:1 as HD and BD are. It depends on
>> the aspect ratio of the film, not the TV it is to be displayed on.
>>
>I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not but that was kind of my
>point. The TV's changed to better fit the material they were going to
>be displaying.

Sorry I was unclear.

The /content/ changed to match the new TV aspect ratio.

This is why older TV materials, such as the Mary Martin /Peter Pan/ or
the version of /Once Upon a Mattress/ with Carol Burnett as Winifred
the Woebegone are 4:3 and not 16:9.

The move to 16:9 was basically a marketing gimmick.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

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Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
From: petert...@gmail.com (pete...@gmail.com)
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 by: pete...@gmail.com - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 16:06 UTC

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 11:30:10 AM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 14:17:19 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> >On 4/13/2023 9:25 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:44:27 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> >> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 4/13/2023 8:27 AM, John Halpenny wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, April 8, 2023 at 12:03:35?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, 07 Apr 2023 23:20:10 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tue, 04 Apr 2023 08:43:54 -0700, Paul S Person
> >>>>>> <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As a long time "RAT" that's very good advice.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I do know that my wife was VERY disappointed that our 65" (16x9)
> >>>>>>>> didn't look any bigger diagonally than our old 55" (4x3).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> My response was to write it out as a math problem to determine what
> >>>>>>>> the height and width was for each TV (I only used a calculator to
> >>>>>>>> calculate the diagonal for each using ye olde Pythagorean equation -
> >>>>>>>> it was easy if you had sketched it out on paper first)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I somehow got the impression that the size measurement of TV sets
> >>>>>>> /was/ the diagonal.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Oh, well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And you would be right. My wife's comment was that it didn't SEEM
> >>>>>> bigger because she was going by the height of the tube not the
> >>>>>> diagonal.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the specific case we were discussing she was talking about a 65"
> >>>>>> 16x9 vs a 55" 4x3.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You're a smart guy and can presumably do the math....if you need a
> >>>>>> hand let me know
> >>>>> Actually, one of things prompting me to keep my 4:3 Toshiba is that
> >>>>> space is limited and the horizontal size of a 16:9 TV would pretty
> >>>>> have to be the same. Which might produce the same effect as that your
> >>>>> wife experienced.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In fact, I did a spreadsheet computation many years ago, suggesting
> >>>>> that a 25" diagonal TV would be (width:height)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ratio inches
> >>>>> 4:3 20:15
> >>>>> 16:9 21.79:12.26
> >>>>>
> >>>>> suggesting both that a 25" diagonal 16:9 TV might not fit in the
> >>>>> available space, and that it would visibly squatter.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (Since the "available space" is a moveable cart which is actually
> >>>>> moved, TV stability is also an issue with modern TVs. There are /no/
> >>>>> simple solutions to this problem.)
> >>>>>
> >>>> Do they sell wide screen TVs because you can get a larger number for the diagonal measurement for the same screen area ( or price)?
> >>>>
> >>> I suspect that the "High Definition" formats tending to be widescreen
> >>> ratios has something to do with it.
> >>
> >> It is, of course, true that TV shows tend to be 16:9 rather than 4:3.
> >> But that is more fitting the content to the standard screen size than
> >> anything else.
> >>
> >> SD and DVD are as likely to be 2.35:1 as HD and BD are. It depends on
> >> the aspect ratio of the film, not the TV it is to be displayed on.
> >>
> >I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not but that was kind of my
> >point. The TV's changed to better fit the material they were going to
> >be displaying.
> Sorry I was unclear.
>
> The /content/ changed to match the new TV aspect ratio.
>
> This is why older TV materials, such as the Mary Martin /Peter Pan/ or
> the version of /Once Upon a Mattress/ with Carol Burnett as Winifred
> the Woebegone are 4:3 and not 16:9.
>
> The move to 16:9 was basically a marketing gimmick.

I'm willing to bet that you've never seen a CRT tv in any ratio but 4:3.
That's the ratio of 35mm film, and was chosen to match the
standard 'Academy Ratio', going right back to silent films.

Movies went widescreen long before TV did. It led to problems
when showing them on TV. Remember letterboxing, pan-and-scan,
and cutting off the left and right edges of movies?

That made wide screen TVs popular, and non-4:3 screens were
easily made after the switch away from CRTs. After the switch,
TV-only content started to take advantage of the newly available
real-estate. This mostly happened during the 2000s.

Many movies today are made in 21:9, so we still get letter boxing
on 16:9, but its nowhere as bad as on a 4:3 CRT, partly because the
screens are so much bigger. 21:9 TVs exist, but they aren't selling well.

pt

Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt

<q%e_L.368915$mmyc.271595@fx37.iad>

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Subject: Re: (tor dot com) Five Vintage SF Stories From the Asteroid Belt
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 by: Scott Lurndal - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 16:16 UTC

"pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
>On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 11:30:10=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote=
>:

>> This is why older TV materials, such as the Mary Martin /Peter Pan/ or=20
>> the version of /Once Upon a Mattress/ with Carol Burnett as Winifred=20
>> the Woebegone are 4:3 and not 16:9.=20
>>=20
>> The move to 16:9 was basically a marketing gimmick.
>
>I'm willing to bet that you've never seen a CRT tv in any ratio but 4:3.
>That's the ratio of 35mm film, and was chosen to match the
>standard 'Academy Ratio', going right back to silent films.
>
>Movies went widescreen long before TV did. It led to problems
>when showing them on TV. Remember letterboxing, pan-and-scan,=20
>and cutting off the left and right edges of movies?
>
>That made wide screen TVs popular, and non-4:3 screens were
>easily made after the switch away from CRTs.

And even before the switch - my first widescreen TV was the
rear projection Toshiba TW40F80.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4_3/toshibatw40tv.html

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