On 4/26/2021 9:58 AM, Naseer wrote:

> On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 14:13:46 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
>> Aadaaab:
>>
>> Hoti jo teer-e-nazar neem kash tu kya haasil
>> Mazaa tu jab hai keh seene kay aar paar chale
>>
>> There is an unconfirmed news that this couplet by Bedi was added to the famous ghazal by Faiz: Gulun mein rang bhare, baad-e-naubahar chale.
>> According to the rumors, Bedi had requested Mendi Hasan to add this verse when he was singing Faiz' ghazal during a concert in India. Since that time this couplet has been allegedly credited to Faiz.
>> What is the correct version of this story? Will someone please clarify?
>> Thanks.
>> Best wishes.
>> Khalid
>
> aadaab Khalid SaaHib.
>
> This couplet indeed belongs to Kunwar Mahendra Singh Bedi's Ghazal whose maqta3 is:
>
> chale samuum yaa ab baad-i-nau-bahaar chale
> guzaarne the jo do din vuh ham guzaar chale
>
> And the shi3r you have quoted, ought to be..
>
> hu'aa jo tiir-i-nazar niim-kash to kyaa Haasil
> mazaa to jab hai jo siine ke aar-paar chale
>
> This shi3r has never been part of Faiz's Ghazal. I don't know the story about Bedi's request. Hopefully other friends may be able to add and clarify. The following thread, "Topic of the Month 11/08 Mash_huur GhazloN meN "paivand"" may be of interest to you.
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/ptua4SdSWeI/m/kaZhOGY9PXsJ
>
> By the way, the Pakistani famous singer's name is spelt, Mehdi Hassan.
>
> Naseer

Also, the first word in the Sikh gentleman's name is "KuNwar", and
not "Knawar"........

****************

Again, on a lighter note.........

And also with due apologies to you, who (perhaps) do not quite
approve of my mentioning films and film songs......

****************

In 1965, a film was released in India. Its title was "Janwar".
It starred Shammi Kapoor, Rajshri (V. Shantaram's daughter),
Shammi Kapoor's father Prithviraj Kapoor, comedian Rajendranath,
along with Rehman and Shyama.

Sadly, with the exception of Rajshri (who is settled in the US
along with her American husband Gregory Chapman and who is in her
eighties now), all others named above have since passed on......

****************

There was no TV in India in those days. And films would be advert-
ized on the Radio.

Also, in those days, there was a well-known announcer (who used to
specialize in these radio promos). He had a deep, sonorous voice.
IIRC, his name was Hassan Rizvi. But he would pronounce it as
"Hassan Razvi", i.e. with an 'a', instead of an 'i'.

In these radio promos, he would add : "Hassan Razvi aap se
muKHaatib hai".

And he used to advertise this film on the radio with, first, a
dog's bark "Bow, wow", followed by the words "Janaawar" ---
{and, after a few seconds' pause} "ma'af keejiye ga, "Jaanwar".

****************

I was reminded of this old story after seeing Janaab Mohinder
Singh Bedi's first name "KuNwar" being mis-spelled as "Knawar".

Afzal

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 1:42:05 PM UTC-4, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> On 4/26/2021 9:58 AM, Naseer wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 14:13:46 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> >> Aadaaab:
> >>
> >> Hoti jo teer-e-nazar neem kash tu kya haasil
> >> Mazaa tu jab hai keh seene kay aar paar chale
> >>
> >> There is an unconfirmed news that this couplet by Bedi was added to the famous ghazal by Faiz: Gulun mein rang bhare, baad-e-naubahar chale.
> >> According to the rumors, Bedi had requested Mendi Hasan to add this verse when he was singing Faiz' ghazal during a concert in India. Since that time this couplet has been allegedly credited to Faiz.
> >> What is the correct version of this story? Will someone please clarify?
> >> Thanks.
> >> Best wishes.
> >> Khalid
> >
> > aadaab Khalid SaaHib.
> >
> > This couplet indeed belongs to Kunwar Mahendra Singh Bedi's Ghazal whose maqta3 is:
> >
> > chale samuum yaa ab baad-i-nau-bahaar chale
> > guzaarne the jo do din vuh ham guzaar chale
> >
> > And the shi3r you have quoted, ought to be..
> >
> > hu'aa jo tiir-i-nazar niim-kash to kyaa Haasil
> > mazaa to jab hai jo siine ke aar-paar chale
> >
> > This shi3r has never been part of Faiz's Ghazal. I don't know the story about Bedi's request. Hopefully other friends may be able to add and clarify. The following thread, "Topic of the Month 11/08 Mash_huur GhazloN meN "paivand"" may be of interest to you.
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/ptua4SdSWeI/m/kaZhOGY9PXsJ
> >
> > By the way, the Pakistani famous singer's name is spelt, Mehdi Hassan.
> >
> > Naseer
> Also, the first word in the Sikh gentleman's name is "KuNwar", and
> not "Knawar"........
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> Again, on a lighter note.........
>
> And also with due apologies to you, who (perhaps) do not quite
> approve of my mentioning films and film songs......
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> In 1965, a film was released in India. Its title was "Janwar".
> It starred Shammi Kapoor, Rajshri (V. Shantaram's daughter),
> Shammi Kapoor's father Prithviraj Kapoor, comedian Rajendranath,
> along with Rehman and Shyama.
>
> Sadly, with the exception of Rajshri (who is settled in the US
> along with her American husband Gregory Chapman and who is in her
> eighties now), all others named above have since passed on......
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> There was no TV in India in those days. And films would be advert-
> ized on the Radio.
>
> Also, in those days, there was a well-known announcer (who used to
> specialize in these radio promos). He had a deep, sonorous voice.
> IIRC, his name was Hassan Rizvi. But he would pronounce it as
> "Hassan Razvi", i.e. with an 'a', instead of an 'i'.
>
> In these radio promos, he would add : "Hassan Razvi aap se
> muKHaatib hai".
>
> And he used to advertise this film on the radio with, first, a
> dog's bark "Bow, wow", followed by the words "Janaawar" ---
> {and, after a few seconds' pause} "ma'af keejiye ga, "Jaanwar".
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> I was reminded of this old story after seeing Janaab Mohinder
> Singh Bedi's first name "KuNwar" being mis-spelled as "Knawar".
>
>
>
>
> Afzal
Aadaab:
Razvi is a genuine last name. Many of my family members have the surnames of Razvi. They consider themselves as the followers of Raza Bareillvi.
Best wishes.
Khalid

On Thursday, 29 April 2021 at 18:42:05 UTC+1, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> On 4/26/2021 9:58 AM, Naseer wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 14:13:46 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> >> Aadaaab:
> >>
> >> Hoti jo teer-e-nazar neem kash tu kya haasil
> >> Mazaa tu jab hai keh seene kay aar paar chale
> >>
> >> There is an unconfirmed news that this couplet by Bedi was added to the famous ghazal by Faiz: Gulun mein rang bhare, baad-e-naubahar chale.
> >> According to the rumors, Bedi had requested Mendi Hasan to add this verse when he was singing Faiz' ghazal during a concert in India. Since that time this couplet has been allegedly credited to Faiz.
> >> What is the correct version of this story? Will someone please clarify?
> >> Thanks.
> >> Best wishes.
> >> Khalid
> >
> > aadaab Khalid SaaHib.
> >
> > This couplet indeed belongs to Kunwar Mahendra Singh Bedi's Ghazal whose maqta3 is:
> >
> > chale samuum yaa ab baad-i-nau-bahaar chale
> > guzaarne the jo do din vuh ham guzaar chale
> >
> > And the shi3r you have quoted, ought to be..
> >
> > hu'aa jo tiir-i-nazar niim-kash to kyaa Haasil
> > mazaa to jab hai jo siine ke aar-paar chale
> >
> > This shi3r has never been part of Faiz's Ghazal. I don't know the story about Bedi's request. Hopefully other friends may be able to add and clarify. The following thread, "Topic of the Month 11/08 Mash_huur GhazloN meN "paivand"" may be of interest to you.
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/ptua4SdSWeI/m/kaZhOGY9PXsJ
> >
> > By the way, the Pakistani famous singer's name is spelt, Mehdi Hassan.
> >
> > Naseer
> Also, the first word in the Sikh gentleman's name is "KuNwar", and
> not "Knawar"........
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> Again, on a lighter note.........
>
> And also with due apologies to you, who (perhaps) do not quite
> approve of my mentioning films and film songs......
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> In 1965, a film was released in India. Its title was "Janwar".
> It starred Shammi Kapoor, Rajshri (V. Shantaram's daughter),
> Shammi Kapoor's father Prithviraj Kapoor, comedian Rajendranath,
> along with Rehman and Shyama.
>
> Sadly, with the exception of Rajshri (who is settled in the US
> along with her American husband Gregory Chapman and who is in her
> eighties now), all others named above have since passed on......
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> There was no TV in India in those days. And films would be advert-
> ized on the Radio.
>
> Also, in those days, there was a well-known announcer (who used to
> specialize in these radio promos). He had a deep, sonorous voice.
> IIRC, his name was Hassan Rizvi. But he would pronounce it as
> "Hassan Razvi", i.e. with an 'a', instead of an 'i'.
>
> In these radio promos, he would add : "Hassan Razvi aap se
> muKHaatib hai".
>
> And he used to advertise this film on the radio with, first, a
> dog's bark "Bow, wow", followed by the words "Janaawar" ---
> {and, after a few seconds' pause} "ma'af keejiye ga, "Jaanwar".
>
>
> ****************
>
>
> I was reminded of this old story after seeing Janaab Mohinder
> Singh Bedi's first name "KuNwar" being mis-spelled as "Knawar".
>
>
>
>
> Afzal

muHtaram Afzal SaaHib aadaab.

No, I do not disapprove your lengthy filmii reminiscings. I just wondered where you had all the time for this pastime of yours and you have offered an explanation. You don't sleep!:-)

As for "Razvi", he is right in the sense that in Urdu, the noun is often pronounced as "Razaa" as opposed to the correct "Rizaa". He obviously followed the first school of thought.

"janaavar" is also a synonym for "jaanvar" but, unfortunately, Knawar is not the same as "KuNwar":-) I did notice the typo and felt as it is a typo, there is no need to dwell on it. However, the late Mehdi Hassan *is* known in some quarters as Mendi Hassan. So, I thought I better make a mention of it.

Naseer

On 4/29/2021 1:07 PM, Naseer wrote:
> On Thursday, 29 April 2021 at 18:42:05 UTC+1, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>> On 4/26/2021 9:58 AM, Naseer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 14:13:46 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
>>>> Aadaaab:
>>>>
>>>> Hoti jo teer-e-nazar neem kash tu kya haasil
>>>> Mazaa tu jab hai keh seene kay aar paar chale
>>>>
>>>> There is an unconfirmed news that this couplet by Bedi was added to the famous ghazal by Faiz: Gulun mein rang bhare, baad-e-naubahar chale.
>>>> According to the rumors, Bedi had requested Mendi Hasan to add this verse when he was singing Faiz' ghazal during a concert in India. Since that time this couplet has been allegedly credited to Faiz.
>>>> What is the correct version of this story? Will someone please clarify?
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Best wishes.
>>>> Khalid
>>>
>>> aadaab Khalid SaaHib.
>>>
>>> This couplet indeed belongs to Kunwar Mahendra Singh Bedi's Ghazal whose maqta3 is:
>>>
>>> chale samuum yaa ab baad-i-nau-bahaar chale
>>> guzaarne the jo do din vuh ham guzaar chale
>>>
>>> And the shi3r you have quoted, ought to be..
>>>
>>> hu'aa jo tiir-i-nazar niim-kash to kyaa Haasil
>>> mazaa to jab hai jo siine ke aar-paar chale
>>>
>>> This shi3r has never been part of Faiz's Ghazal. I don't know the story about Bedi's request. Hopefully other friends may be able to add and clarify. The following thread, "Topic of the Month 11/08 Mash_huur GhazloN meN "paivand"" may be of interest to you.
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/ptua4SdSWeI/m/kaZhOGY9PXsJ
>>>
>>> By the way, the Pakistani famous singer's name is spelt, Mehdi Hassan.
>>>
>>> Naseer
>> Also, the first word in the Sikh gentleman's name is "KuNwar", and
>> not "Knawar"........
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> Again, on a lighter note.........
>>
>> And also with due apologies to you, who (perhaps) do not quite
>> approve of my mentioning films and film songs......
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> In 1965, a film was released in India. Its title was "Janwar".
>> It starred Shammi Kapoor, Rajshri (V. Shantaram's daughter),
>> Shammi Kapoor's father Prithviraj Kapoor, comedian Rajendranath,
>> along with Rehman and Shyama.
>>
>> Sadly, with the exception of Rajshri (who is settled in the US
>> along with her American husband Gregory Chapman and who is in her
>> eighties now), all others named above have since passed on......
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> There was no TV in India in those days. And films would be advert-
>> ized on the Radio.
>>
>> Also, in those days, there was a well-known announcer (who used to
>> specialize in these radio promos). He had a deep, sonorous voice.
>> IIRC, his name was Hassan Rizvi. But he would pronounce it as
>> "Hassan Razvi", i.e. with an 'a', instead of an 'i'.
>>
>> In these radio promos, he would add : "Hassan Razvi aap se
>> muKHaatib hai".
>>
>> And he used to advertise this film on the radio with, first, a
>> dog's bark "Bow, wow", followed by the words "Janaawar" ---
>> {and, after a few seconds' pause} "ma'af keejiye ga, "Jaanwar".
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> I was reminded of this old story after seeing Janaab Mohinder
>> Singh Bedi's first name "KuNwar" being mis-spelled as "Knawar".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Afzal

>
> muHtaram Afzal SaaHib aadaab.
>
> No, I do not disapprove your lengthy filmii reminiscings. I just wondered where you had all the time for this pastime of yours and you have offered an explanation. You don't sleep!:-)
>
> As for "Razvi", he is right in the sense that in Urdu, the noun is often pronounced as "Razaa" as opposed to the correct "Rizaa". He obviously followed the first school of thought.
>
> "janaavar" is also a synonym for "jaanvar" but, unfortunately, Knawar is not the same as "KuNwar":-) I did notice the typo and felt as it is a typo, there is no need to dwell on it. However, the late Mehdi Hassan *is* known in some quarters as Mendi Hassan. So, I thought I better make a mention of it.
>
> Naseer

Mukarramee,

Both your good-self and K.S. Saheb may be right in this regard.....

****************

However, you may perhaps remember an old political leader from
the erstwhile princely state of Hyderabad (in India) whose name
was Syed Qaasim Rizvi. As far as I know, it was always spelt as
"Rizvi", not as "Razvi".

He was prosecuted by the Government of India in the "Bibinagar
Dacoity Case", and sentenced to several years of imprisonment.

I don't know if you (or any other person from recent times) knows
about the complete case and/or has read the judgment. Of course
I have done both.

If you can somehow access the judgment, do read it. It makes for
some very "interesting" reading.

****************

Also, very recently, a notorious person in India (who goes by the
name of Waseem Rizvi) filed a petition before the Indian Supreme
Court, asking it to order the deletion of 26 'aayaat" from the Holy
Qur'aan.

The plea was junked by the Supreme Court and he was also asked to
pay a fine of Rs. 50,000/-. To my knowledge, all newspaper reports
routinely spelt his last name is Rizvi.

He is supposed to be from the Shia community. But all (and I do
mean ALL) Shia Associations in India have condemned him in the
strongest terms and a movement seems to be afoot to sort of
"excommunicate him".

Afzal

On 4/29/2021 1:07 PM, Naseer wrote:
> On Thursday, 29 April 2021 at 18:42:05 UTC+1, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>> On 4/26/2021 9:58 AM, Naseer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Monday, 26 April 2021 at 14:13:46 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
>>>> Aadaaab:
>>>>
>>>> Hoti jo teer-e-nazar neem kash tu kya haasil
>>>> Mazaa tu jab hai keh seene kay aar paar chale
>>>>
>>>> There is an unconfirmed news that this couplet by Bedi was added to the famous ghazal by Faiz: Gulun mein rang bhare, baad-e-naubahar chale.
>>>> According to the rumors, Bedi had requested Mendi Hasan to add this verse when he was singing Faiz' ghazal during a concert in India. Since that time this couplet has been allegedly credited to Faiz.
>>>> What is the correct version of this story? Will someone please clarify?
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Best wishes.
>>>> Khalid
>>>
>>> aadaab Khalid SaaHib.
>>>
>>> This couplet indeed belongs to Kunwar Mahendra Singh Bedi's Ghazal whose maqta3 is:
>>>
>>> chale samuum yaa ab baad-i-nau-bahaar chale
>>> guzaarne the jo do din vuh ham guzaar chale
>>>
>>> And the shi3r you have quoted, ought to be..
>>>
>>> hu'aa jo tiir-i-nazar niim-kash to kyaa Haasil
>>> mazaa to jab hai jo siine ke aar-paar chale
>>>
>>> This shi3r has never been part of Faiz's Ghazal. I don't know the story about Bedi's request. Hopefully other friends may be able to add and clarify. The following thread, "Topic of the Month 11/08 Mash_huur GhazloN meN "paivand"" may be of interest to you.
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/ptua4SdSWeI/m/kaZhOGY9PXsJ
>>>
>>> By the way, the Pakistani famous singer's name is spelt, Mehdi Hassan.
>>>
>>> Naseer
>> Also, the first word in the Sikh gentleman's name is "KuNwar", and
>> not "Knawar"........
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> Again, on a lighter note.........
>>
>> And also with due apologies to you, who (perhaps) do not quite
>> approve of my mentioning films and film songs......
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> In 1965, a film was released in India. Its title was "Janwar".
>> It starred Shammi Kapoor, Rajshri (V. Shantaram's daughter),
>> Shammi Kapoor's father Prithviraj Kapoor, comedian Rajendranath,
>> along with Rehman and Shyama.
>>
>> Sadly, with the exception of Rajshri (who is settled in the US
>> along with her American husband Gregory Chapman and who is in her
>> eighties now), all others named above have since passed on......
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> There was no TV in India in those days. And films would be advert-
>> ized on the Radio.
>>
>> Also, in those days, there was a well-known announcer (who used to
>> specialize in these radio promos). He had a deep, sonorous voice.
>> IIRC, his name was Hassan Rizvi. But he would pronounce it as
>> "Hassan Razvi", i.e. with an 'a', instead of an 'i'.
>>
>> In these radio promos, he would add : "Hassan Razvi aap se
>> muKHaatib hai".
>>
>> And he used to advertise this film on the radio with, first, a
>> dog's bark "Bow, wow", followed by the words "Janaawar" ---
>> {and, after a few seconds' pause} "ma'af keejiye ga, "Jaanwar".
>>
>>
>> ****************
>>
>>
>> I was reminded of this old story after seeing Janaab Mohinder
>> Singh Bedi's first name "KuNwar" being mis-spelled as "Knawar".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Afzal

>
> muHtaram Afzal SaaHib aadaab.
>
> No, I do not disapprove your lengthy filmii reminiscings. I just wondered where you had all the time for this pastime of yours and you have offered an explanation. You don't sleep!:-)
>
> As for "Razvi", he is right in the sense that in Urdu, the noun is often pronounced as "Razaa" as opposed to the correct "Rizaa". He obviously followed the first school of thought.
>
> "janaavar" is also a synonym for "jaanvar" but, unfortunately, Knawar is not the same as "KuNwar":-) I did notice the typo and felt as it is a typo, there is no need to dwell on it. However, the late Mehdi Hassan *is* known in some quarters as Mendi Hassan. So, I thought I better make a mention of it.
>
> Naseer

Mukarramee,

The Bhojpuri dialect is used by a very large number of
people in many parts of East India (i.e Eastern Uttar
Pradesh, Bihar and parts of West Bengal, northern part
of Orissa etc.

This dialect uses expressions like "KahaaN jaat ho" for
the normal Urdu/hindi "KahaaN jaa rahe ho"......

****************

And now, for my favourite pastime (you already know what
that is......!!)

In or around 1970, a film was released in India. Its title
was "Mastana". It starred quite a few people who, sadly, are
no longer with us --- Mehmood, Vinod Khanna and Padmini amongst
others.

This film had a song : "Jab jab hum tumka dekhaN hayeN re bhaiyya"
--- man mor machaave sor sor sor..."

****************

Also, in early 1967, another film was released in India. Its title
was "Milan" --- it starred Sunil Dutt (as a village yokel) opposite
a sophisticated lady (played by Nutan). Sunil Dutt tries to teach
a song to Nutan --- "saawan ka maheena, pawan kare sor".

And when Nutan repeatedly pronounces the last word as "shor", Sunil
Dutt gets angry and says : "Are baba, shor naheeN sor".

I am sure you get the picture.

****************

So, IMHO, "janwar" is sort of a "vulgar" pronunciation of the word
"jaanwar". I don't think you will find any educated person (familiar
with Urdu/hindi) who would pronounce "jaanwar" as "janwar".

****************

BTW, the Bhojpuri film industry is very huge --- I would say, even
bigger than the hindi film industry. Though, we do not see these
Bhojpuri films....

****************

One of my favourite authors in English is Jim Corbett, the famous
hunter who had written some 4-5 well-known books on his hunting
experiences (right from 1905 to 1937). His most famous book is "The
Man-eaters of Kumaon". It is available on the Internet and, if time
permits, you ought to read it. Your time will be well-invested.

Corbett migrated to Kenya around 1946 and passed away there in 1955.
I recall that world-renowned scientist Albert Einstein also died
wither on the same day or within 2-3 days of Corbett's death.

In Corbett's memory, a special Game Reserve has been created in
North-West India --- it is called Jim Corbett National Park..

****************

In my time, I have also pursued this "pastime". During British
times, "shikar" was permitted, but with strict limits.

"Shikaries" would be issued what were known as "Game Licences",
where the game species would be listed with the "limit" mentioned
against each such "being" --- whether bird or other game.

The hunting season for each such "specie" was also indicated ---
and both these conditions were strictly enforced.

No need to add that Ms. Menaka Gandhi was not around at that time.

****************

When we (i.e. myself along with some family members or with friends)
would venture into the forest, we would use one of three modes of
transport --- a truck, or a jeep or a bullock cart.

The bullock cart would, of course, be driven by a professional
cart driver ("haaNk'ne waala). Sometimes, when a leopard or a tiger
would be lurking silently nearby, the bullocks would sense their
presence and would either proceed at an accelerated pace or jump
around in fear.

And the cart-driver would say :"Saab, baRa janwar hai".

****************

So, how is that for this rambling response !!!

****************

Sometime back, I believe I had posted a poem by Dr. Kaleem
'AAjiz" --- "Tum qatl karo ho ke karaamaat karo ho". And,
recently, another gentleman (either Dinesh Shenoy Saheb or
Khalid Siddiqui Saheb had also quoted this sher.