On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 7:28:58 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/30/2023 6:03 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <878rfdy...@enoch.nodomain.nowhere>,
> > Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
> >>
> >> WolfFan <akwo...@zoho.com> writes:
> >>
> >>> On Mar 21, 2023, Dimensional Traveler wrote
> >>> (in article <tvdj9f$b5cj$1...@dont-email.me>):
> >>>
> >>>> On 3/21/2023 2:40 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>>> Is "Dune" really the reader favorite science fiction book of all time ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course not. The few readers of a blog are not a representative
> >>>>> sample.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, if one didn't mind being roasted in a nuclear inferno of
> >>>> flaming one could suggest that the #1 all time favorite science
> >>>> fiction book is...
> >>>>
> >>>> The Bible.
> >>>>
> >>>> But that one wouldn't be me.
> >>>
> >>> Oh? Where's the science in talking snakes, four-legged insects, bats
> >>> that are birds, city walls which collapse because someone played a
> >>> trumpet, the Earth stopping, and then starting again, its rotation,
> >>> sheep's wool changing color, and said color being inherited by its
> >>> offspring, due to tricks with staffs? Lots more.
> >>
> >> Don't forget Ezekial and the flying saucer!
> >>
> >> 'Zekial saw a wheel
> >> Way up in the middle of the air praise God
> >> A wheel in a wheel way up in the middle of the air.
> >>
> >> The big wheel run by faith
> >> The little wheel run by the grace of God
> >> A wheel in a wheel
> >> Way up in the middle of the air
> >>
> >> See also: The Spaceships of Ezekiel, Josef F. Blumrich, Bantam, 1974
> >>
> >
> > Such celestial "wheel"-s featured heavily in Faith Hunter's "Rogue Mage"
> > series.
> Yup. And many of the angels.

Ophanim, to be specific.
https://mythologyexplained.com/ophanim-in-the-bible/

No flying saucer, a type of angel.

pt

Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> Don't forget Ezekial and the flying saucer!
>> See also: The Spaceships of Ezekiel, Josef F. Blumrich, Bantam, 1974
>
> I'm pretty sure Erich von Däniken wrote it a few years earlier.

Some of Däniken's spiel about der Prophet Hesekiel is copied and pasted
below. It's from _Erinnerungen an die Zukunft_, published in 1968.
(Apparently any paragraph formatting was lost during digitization.)

Das Alte Testament gibt eindringliche Schilderungen, in denen
Gott allein oder seine Engel unter großem Lärm und
starkerRauchentwicklung direkt vom Himmel herniederflogen.
Eine der originellsten Beschreibungen solcher Ereignisse
überlieferte uns der Prophet Hesekiel: »Es begab sich im
dreißigsten Jahre, am fünften Tage des vierten Monats, als
ich im Flusse Chebar unter den Verbannten war, da tat sich
der Himmel auf... Ich aber sah, wie ein Sturmwind daherkam
von Norden und eine große Wolke, umgeben von strahlendem
Glanz und einem unaufhörlichen Feuer, aus dessen Mitte es
blinkte wie Glanzerz. Und mitten darin erschienen Gestalten
wie von vier lebenden Wesen,- die waren anzusehen wie
Menschengestalten. Und ein jedes hatte vier Gesichter und
ein jedes vier Flügel. Ihre Beine waren gerade, und ihre
Fußsohle war wie die Fußsohle eines Kalbes, und sie funkelten
wie blankes Erz.« Hesekiel gibt ein sehr präzises Datum für
die Landung dieses Vehikels. Er sieht auch in genauer
Beobachtung ein Fahrzeug, das von Norden kommt, das strahlt
und glänzt und das eine riesige Wolke von Wüstensand
aufwirbelt. Denken wir den allmächtigen Gott der Religionen:
Hat dieser allmächtige Gott es nötig, aus einer bestimmten
Richtung daherzurasen - kann er nicht" ohne viel Aufhebens
und Getöse dort sein, wo er zu sein wünscht? Folgen wir
weiter dem Erlebnisbericht des Propheten Hesekiel: »Weiter
sah ich neben jedem der vier lebenden Wesen ein Rad auf dem
Boden. Das Aussehen der Räder war wie der Schimmer eines
Chrysoliths, und die vier Räder waren alle von gleicher
Gestalt, und sie waren so gearbeitet, als wäre je ein Rad
mitten im andern. Sie konnten nach allen vier Seiten gehen,
ohne sich im Gehen zu wenden. Und ich sah, dass sie Felgen
hatten, und ihre Felgen waren voll Augen ringsum an allen
vier Rädern. Wenn die lebenden Wesen gingen, so gingen auch
die Räder neben ihnen, und wenn sich die lebenden Wesen vom
Boden erhoben, so erhoben sich auch die Räder.« Die
Beschreibung ist verblüffend gut: Hesekiel meint, dass je ein
Rad mitten im andern war. Eine optische Täuschung! Aus unseren
heutigen Vorstellungen sah er eine Spiralwalze, wie die
Amerikaner sie im Wüstensand und in Sumpfgebieten einsetzen.
Hesekiel beobachtete, dass sich die Räder gleichzeitig mit
den Flügeln vom Boden erhoben. Das stimmte genau.
Selbstverständlich bleiben die Räder eines Allzweckfahrzeuges,
etwa eines Amphibienhelikopters, nicht am Boden, wenn es sich
in die Luft erhebt. Weiter mit Hesekiel: »Menschensohn, stelle
dich auf deine Füße, ich will mit dir reden.« Diese Stimme
vernahm der Berichterstatter und vergrub vor Angst und
Ehrfurcht sein Angesicht im Boden. Die fremden Erscheinungen
redeten unsern Hesekiel mit »Menschensohn« an, und sie wollen
mit ihm sprechen. Weiter im Bericht: »... und ich hörte hinter
mir ein gewaltiges Getöse, als sich die Herrlichkeit des Herrn
von ihrer Stelle erhob, das Rauschen der Flügel der lebenden
Wesen, die einander berührten, und das Rasseln der Räder
zugleich mit ihnen war ein gewaltiges Getöse.« Außer der
ziemlich genauen Beschreibung des Fahr zeugs notiert Hesekiel
auch den Lärm, den dies nie gesehene Ungetüm erzeugt, wenn es
vom Boden startet.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 10:27:22 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 4:36:32?PM UTC-6, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> Don't forget Ezekial and the flying saucer!
>>
>> 'Zekial saw a wheel
>> Way up in the middle of the air praise God
>> A wheel in a wheel way up in the middle of the air.
>>
>> The big wheel run by faith
>> The little wheel run by the grace of God
>> A wheel in a wheel
>> Way up in the middle of the air
>>
>> See also: The Spaceships of Ezekiel, Josef F. Blumrich, Bantam, 1974
>
>On my web site, at
>
>http://www.quadibloc.com/feat.htm
>
>I suggest that the Bible got the idea for the (old fashioned, with a ball)
>mouse before everyone else!
>
>Wheels within wheels, that can go back and forth or side to side,
>without turning...

I once read an article (in /BYTE/, IIRC) about Omar Khayyam's clear
description of a BASIC line editor with no backspace key:

"The moving finger wrote and, having writ, moved on".

That would have been back in the late 70s/early 80s.

This is an /old/ game.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 5:45:00 PM UTC-5, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2023-03-21, Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is "Dune" really the reader favorite science fiction book of all time ?
> >
> > https://best-sci-fi-books.com/the-readers-speak-this-blogs-readers-favorite-science-fiction-books/
> >
> > Dune is not even in my 23 books on my top ten list.
> >
> > Dune does have a 4.7 out of 5 stars rating on Big River with 73,363 reviews.
> > https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Frank-Herbert-ebook/dp/B00B7NPRY8/
> >
> > Lynn
> I have no problem with _Dune_ being the top book, and it's one of a
> handful of books that I would predict would win a reader's poll.
>
> I was much more surprised with _Rendezvous with Rama_ being number 2
> on the list. I'm not sure I would include that in a list of
> Clarke's best 5 books!
>
> Chris

I would. I recently reread it, and it holds up marvelously. I would definitely put in in the top 3 of Clarke's major works.

It came out not long after _Ringworld_, and it's technically in the same genre, i.e. the Big Dumb Object book. But IMHO Clarke does a far better job than Niven did.

For one thing, most of the story events that happen to Louis Wu and Co. on Ringworld could happen on any hominid-inhabited planet. Yeah, the final escape through the meteor crater is unique to the Ringworld, but most of the rest could happen on any unexplored (by the protagonists) world.

Clarke doesn't bother with extraneous subplots, and the nature of the Rama object shapes the entire sequence of events. A BDO story works best when the BDO is the main character, and Clarke is content to let that dynamic play out.

Also, for all that Rama is fantastically smaller than the Ringworld, it _feels_ bigger. The viewpoint characters actually react to the size of the interior (10 miles by 30 miles), in a believable way. There's a fun scene where Captain Norton is climbing the ladder near the axis when the interior lights suddenly turn on, and Clarke plays with his mental gymnastics to deal with the view. Is he looking _up_ at a 30 mile deep well, sideways down a 30 mile long tunnel, or is he clinging to the roof of a 30 mile deep chasm? He's rather desperate to avoid that last mental perspective.

(He's near the axis and so in almost zero-G conditions, he can't really fall, but that intellectual knowledge wouldn't necessarily prevent a panic attack.)

Clarke keeps the physics fairly hard, the orbital dynamics of Rama provide the time limit that forces the protagonists to leave with it barely explored, plausibly explain why only this particular group of ill-prepared explorers are in a position to get to Rama at all, and shape some of external events as well.

One of the good scenes in the story is the sound of the ice on the interior sea cracking as solar heat melts the water from 'below' (i.e. toward the outside universe). At that point it's still dark inside Rama, but the sound splits the silence and catches them all by surprise.

Clarke wisely keeps the builders entire off-stage, and we never even learn anything about them. Rama is almost as big a mystery when it leaves the Solar System as when it arrives, the entire time-limited exploration sequence feels utterly 'real'. One could easily imagine almost everything in the story playing out in the real world precisely as described.

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:10:11 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> Is "Dune" really the reader favorite science fiction book of all time ?
>
> https://best-sci-fi-books.com/the-readers-speak-this-blogs-readers-favorite-science-fiction-books/
>
> Dune is not even in my 23 books on my top ten list.
>
> Dune does have a 4.7 out of 5 stars rating on Big River with 73,363 reviews.
> https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Frank-Herbert-ebook/dp/B00B7NPRY8/
>
> Lynn

All such choices (at an individual level) are subjective, of course, but my personal top 25 would include from that list (in no particular order):

_I Robot_
_The Time Machine)_
_The Martian Chronicles_
_The Mote in God's Eye_
_Rendezvous with Rama_

A few others on my top 25 that they skip would include _Startide Rising_, and _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_.

Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> writes:
>On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:10:11=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Is "Dune" really the reader favorite science fiction book of all time ?=
>=20
>>=20
>> https://best-sci-fi-books.com/the-readers-speak-this-blogs-readers-favori=
>te-science-fiction-books/=20
>>=20
>> Dune is not even in my 23 books on my top ten list.=20
>>=20
>> Dune does have a 4.7 out of 5 stars rating on Big River with 73,363 revie=
>ws.=20
>> https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Frank-Herbert-ebook/dp/B00B7NPRY8/=20
>>=20
>> Lynn
>
>All such choices (at an individual level) are subjective, of course, but my=
> personal top 25 would include from that list (in no particular order):
>
>_I Robot_
>_The Time Machine)_
>_The Martian Chronicles_=20
>_The Mote in God's Eye_
>_Rendezvous with Rama_

Having just re-read it, I'd place _Cities in Flight_ on the list as well.

On 3/21/2023 8:29 PM, WolfFan wrote:
> On Mar 21, 2023, Dimensional Traveler wrote
> (in article <tvdj9f$b5cj$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 3/21/2023 2:40 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Is "Dune" really the reader favorite science fiction book of all time ?
>>>
>>> Of course not. The few readers of a blog are not a representative sample.
>>
>> Well, if one didn't mind being roasted in a nuclear inferno of flaming
>> one could suggest that the #1 all time favorite science fiction book is...
>>
>> The Bible.
>>
>> But that one wouldn't be me.
>
> Oh? Where’s the science in talking snakes, four-legged insects, bats that
> are birds, city walls which collapse because someone played a trumpet, the
> Earth stopping, and then starting again, its rotation, sheep’s wool
> changing color, and said color being inherited by its offspring, due to
> tricks with staffs? Lots more.

You know, if Adam and Eve had been Cajuns, they would have eaten the
snake instead of the apple.

Lynn

On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 1:42:01 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Johnny1A <johnny1...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:10:11=E2=80=AFPM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >> Is "Dune" really the reader favorite science fiction book of all time ?=
> >=20
> >>=20
> >> https://best-sci-fi-books.com/the-readers-speak-this-blogs-readers-favori=
> >te-science-fiction-books/=20
> >>=20
> >> Dune is not even in my 23 books on my top ten list.=20
> >>=20
> >> Dune does have a 4.7 out of 5 stars rating on Big River with 73,363 revie=
> >ws.=20
> >> https://www.amazon.com/Dune-Frank-Herbert-ebook/dp/B00B7NPRY8/=20
> >>=20
> >> Lynn
> >
> >All such choices (at an individual level) are subjective, of course, but my> > personal top 25 would include from that list (in no particular order):
> >
> >_I Robot_
> >_The Time Machine)_
> >_The Martian Chronicles_=20
> >_The Mote in God's Eye_
> >_Rendezvous with Rama_
> Having just re-read it, I'd place _Cities in Flight_ on the list as well.

I like CiF, but it wouldn't quite make my Top 25. Definitely Top 50, though. It's good, and it missed being great by just a little (though the fourth story, _The Triumph of Time_, is IMHO very weak.)