Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
Science)

How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
ravages of applied science.

https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 9:11:49 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
> Science)
>
> How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
> ravages of applied science.
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/

It doesn't really require much justification for the smaller rocks, there are lots of them, not all are identified as the review notes, and it's by no means super-improbable that a small one, a city-destroyer, could hit Earth.. It's happened many times in relatively recent geological history.

Now as a matter of odds, a city-destroyer would most likely hit the ocean, or a rural countryside, but that would still be problematic, esp. the latter, and even once you knew a CD was on track to strike Earth, you wouldn't be able to pin down exactly where with great precision until very near the impact. It's by no means a stretch for an SF story to include a city-destroyer on track to hit Earth.

I've always found the 'asteroid impactor as weapon' scenario improbable, not because it couldn't be done, but because it doesn't do anything that a nuke doesn't do more easily and cheaply, plus it takes longer. ISTM that unless you're planning world-wide effects, which requires steering a relatively big rock onto a collision trajectory and also waiting a long time for it to hit, rocks-as-weapons is the Hard Way. (If you have enough delta-V to slam a Chicxulub-size rock onto the target in a short time, you can probably do the nasty directly much faster anyway, that's a _lot_ of energy.)

About the only way the world-wide-effect size rock makes sense as a weapon, ISTM, is if the attacker has lots and lots of time to wait for a rock to be in a convenient orbit, or doesn't mind waiting years or decades for the payoff, and wants to make it look like a natural event. It might make sense then.

Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 9:11:49=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of=20
>> Science)=20
>>=20
>> How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel=20
>> ravages of applied science.=20
>>=20
>> https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-i=
>nto-earth-in-spite-of-science/=20
>
>
>It doesn't really require much justification for the smaller rocks, there a=
>re lots of them, not all are identified as the review notes, and it's by no=
> means super-improbable that a small one, a city-destroyer, could hit Earth=
>. It's happened many times in relatively recent geological history.

A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Carefully aimed (assuming
similar velocity of 42,000mph), that will make a mess of most cities.

The challenge is achieving that velocity, of course.

Johnny1A wrote:
>
> I've always found the 'asteroid impactor as weapon' scenario improbable, not because it couldn't be done, but because it doesn't do anything that a nuke doesn't do more easily and cheaply, plus it takes longer.

Well, unless you already have a mass driver on the Moon you could use.

--
-Jack

On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 10:11:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
> Science)
>
> How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
> ravages of applied science.
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/
>

You will be amused to know that this article is currently[1]
featured[2] in the Science section of the[3] news.google.com
newsfeed, right between "SpaceX moves Starship to launch site,
and liftoff could be just days away" and "New James Webb telescope
photo of a galaxy cluster 6 billion light years away shows a trippy
phenomenon where gravity warps spacetime"

Tony
[1] April 3, 4:45pm EDT
[2] 18th position down the list
[3] Is it "the", or just "my"? I have never entered any preferences,
but that doesn't mean they haven't auto-inferred and auto-implemented
some, of course.

In article <b63410f7-2bb0-440c-97cc-b4f4e7bdb092n@googlegroups.com>,
Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 10:11:49 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
>> Science)
>>
>> How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
>> ravages of applied science.
>>
>>
>https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/
>>
>
>You will be amused to know that this article is currently[1]
>featured[2] in the Science section of the[3] news.google.com
>newsfeed, right between "SpaceX moves Starship to launch site,
>and liftoff could be just days away" and "New James Webb telescope
>photo of a galaxy cluster 6 billion light years away shows a trippy
>phenomenon where gravity warps spacetime"
>
>Tony
>[1] April 3, 4:45pm EDT
>[2] 18th position down the list
>[3] Is it "the", or just "my"? I have never entered any preferences,
> but that doesn't mean they haven't auto-inferred and
>auto-implemented
> some, of course.
>

Cool!

Back when I was on LJ, which was more visible to google than DreamWidth
is, I'd ask a question, then do a search on google for which the
first hit was often me asking the question. Major egoboo but also
not helpful.

(I did once notice an odd assertion in a wikipedia article, tracked
it back to the source to discover I was the source. Also not
helpful)
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

begin fnord
jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

> Back when I was on LJ, which was more visible to google than DreamWidth
> is

DW has an account setting that's something like "tell search engines not
to index my posts". I never see anything on your DW when I google
"site:... <text>", so I figured you had that turned on.

--
Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press

On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
> the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
> larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* that giant
space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely certain it
closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...

As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an interest
in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually poses a *threat*...

I'm surprised I haven't heard of this.

John Savard

On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 8:20:50 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> > A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
> > the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
> > larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
> Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* that giant
> space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely certain it
> closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
>
> As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an interest
> in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually poses a *threat*...
>
> I'm surprised I haven't heard of this.

Ah, what you were referring to was the Chelyabinsk meteor of February 15, 2013.

Okay, _that_ one did come to my attention at the time.

John Savard

In article <m2o7o4oaaj.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org>,
Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:
>begin fnord
>jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>> Back when I was on LJ, which was more visible to google than DreamWidth
>> is
>
>DW has an account setting that's something like "tell search engines not
>to index my posts". I never see anything on your DW when I google
>"site:... <text>", so I figured you had that turned on.
>
Nope!

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On 04/04/2023 04:13, Johnny1A wrote:
> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 9:11:49 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five Ways to Justify Huge Rocks Smashing Into Earth (in Spite of
>> Science)
>>
>> How to salvage a beloved stock science fiction plot from the cruel
>> ravages of applied science.
>>
>> https://www.tor.com/2023/04/03/five-ways-to-justify-huge-rocks-smashing-into-earth-in-spite-of-science/
>
>
> It doesn't really require much justification for the smaller rocks, there are lots of them, not all are identified as the review notes, and it's by no means super-improbable that a small one, a city-destroyer, could hit Earth. It's happened many times in relatively recent geological history.
>
> Now as a matter of odds, a city-destroyer would most likely hit the ocean, or a rural countryside, but that would still be problematic, esp. the latter, and even once you knew a CD was on track to strike Earth, you wouldn't be able to pin down exactly where with great precision until very near the impact. It's by no means a stretch for an SF story to include a city-destroyer on track to hit Earth.
>
> I've always found the 'asteroid impactor as weapon' scenario improbable, not because it couldn't be done, but because it doesn't do anything that a nuke doesn't do more easily and cheaply, plus it takes longer. ISTM that unless you're planning world-wide effects, which requires steering a relatively big rock onto a collision trajectory and also waiting a long time for it to hit, rocks-as-weapons is the Hard Way. (If you have enough delta-V to slam a Chicxulub-size rock onto the target in a short time, you can probably do the nasty directly much faster anyway, that's a _lot_ of energy.)
>
> About the only way the world-wide-effect size rock makes sense as a weapon, ISTM, is if the attacker has lots and lots of time to wait for a rock to be in a convenient orbit, or doesn't mind waiting years or decades for the payoff, and wants to make it look like a natural event. It might make sense then.

Yes, of course, if it will look natural, then that's a bonus - cue the
Merseians finding that loose planet that was heading towards Starkad,
well, that's just so deniable...

Cheers,
Gary B-)

Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> > A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
> > the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is substantially
> > larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

> Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* that giant
> space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely certain it
> closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
>
> As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an interest
> in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually poses a *threat*...

This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions have become favorable to tornado formation.
The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.

Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried wolf.

(I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic communications with!")

--
-Jack

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58=E2=80=AFPM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and=20
>> the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons TNT, which is =
>substantially=20
>> larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
>
>Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns humanity* th=
>at giant
>space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're absolutely c=
>ertain it
>closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
>
>As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who might have an in=
>terest
>in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that actually po=
>ses a *threat*...
>
>I'm surprised I haven't heard of this.

I'm surprised you don't remember hearing about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_meteor

In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>> > A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
>> > the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
>TNT, which is substantially
>> > larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
>
>> Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
>humanity* that giant
>> space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
>absolutely certain it
>> closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
>>
>> As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
>might have an interest
>> in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
>actually poses a *threat*...
>
>This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
>Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
>have become favorable to tornado formation.
>The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
>radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.
>
>Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
>out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
>folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
>areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
>wolf.
>
>(I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
>support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
>her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
>non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
>she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
>This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
>something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
>stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
>communications with!")

Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 7:48:37 AM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> I'm surprised you don't remember hearing about it.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_meteor

My problem was that I thought "recent" referred to the last year
or two. And, while I did remember the devastation the Chelyabinsk
meteor caused - several people injured by broken windows - I had
no idea that the diameter of the object involved was in the neighborhood
of 20 metres or 60 feet.

John Savard

On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
> Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>>> A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
>>>> the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
>> TNT, which is substantially
>>>> larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
>>
>>> Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
>> humanity* that giant
>>> space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
>> absolutely certain it
>>> closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
>>>
>>> As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
>> might have an interest
>>> in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
>> actually poses a *threat*...
>>
>> This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
>> Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
>> have become favorable to tornado formation.
>> The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
>> radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.
>>
>> Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
>> out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
>> folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
>> areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
>> wolf.
>>
>> (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
>> support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
>> her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
>> non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
>> she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
>> This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
>> something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
>> stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
>> communications with!")
>
> Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
> 2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
> on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.

Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
>On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
>>>>> the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
>>> TNT, which is substantially
>>>>> larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
>>>
>>>> Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
>>> humanity* that giant
>>>> space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
>>> absolutely certain it
>>>> closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
>>>>
>>>> As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
>>> might have an interest
>>>> in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
>>> actually poses a *threat*...
>>>
>>> This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
>>> Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
>>> have become favorable to tornado formation.
>>> The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
>>> radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.
>>>
>>> Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
>>> out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
>>> folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
>>> areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
>>> wolf.
>>>
>>> (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
>>> support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
>>> her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
>>> non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
>>> she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
>>> This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
>>> something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
>>> stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
>>> communications with!")
>>
>> Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
>> 2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
>> on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.
>
>Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
>can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
>Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
>I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
>an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
>had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

And responding to

>>> This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
>>> something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
>>> stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
>>> communications with!")

A driver may encounter the dense fog very suddenly, it's clear
and then it's not. That's what the warnings are for, to give
the drivers advance notice to keep alert when driving in certain
areas (and yes, the central valley and san joaquin valleys are
both noted for sudden onset dense fog). Particularly at night.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 12:01:35 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> > In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Quadibloc wrote:
> >>> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
> >>>> the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
> >> TNT, which is substantially
> >>>> larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
> >>
> >>> Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
> >> humanity* that giant
> >>> space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
> >> absolutely certain it
> >>> closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
> >>>
> >>> As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
> >> might have an interest
> >>> in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
> >> actually poses a *threat*...
> >>
> >> This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
> >> Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
> >> have become favorable to tornado formation.
> >> The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
> >> radar of a tornado. So using the correct word is important.
> >>
> >> Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
> >> out? They could pretend the press release is a notification for
> >> folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
> >> areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
> >> wolf.
> >>
> >> (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
> >> support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse
> >> her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
> >> non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
> >> she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
> >> This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
> >> something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
> >> stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
> >> communications with!")
> >
> > Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
> > 2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
> > on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.
> Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
> can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
> Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
> I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
> an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
> had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

Thick fogs also occur in Belgium, where I used to live. The highway system
there has streetlights along its entire length, which can be strikingly seen in
night time satellite images, and cars are required to have a super-bright rear
mounted red light to turn on in fog, to reduce the chances of being rear-ended.

pt

On Tuesday, 4 April 2023 at 17:39:50 UTC+1, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> writes:
> >On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
> >>> something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
> >>> stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
> >>> communications with!")
>
> A driver may encounter the dense fog very suddenly, it's clear
> and then it's not. That's what the warnings are for, to give
> the drivers advance notice to keep alert when driving in certain
> areas (and yes, the central valley and san joaquin valleys are
> both noted for sudden onset dense fog). Particularly at night.

My understanding is that mostly it's not fog arising suddenly
in one location, but fog resting in one location - large or
small - that you happen to drive into at speed from a
relatively fogless location.

On the other hand... there may be no fog when you set out
on a journey, but soon after, there is fog.

In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>(I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for
>the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word
>"notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights
>chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my
>notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National
>Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is
>about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
>communications with!")

(Hal Heydt)
You've never driven in the California Central Valley in a Tule
Fog. The conditions tend to produce chain reaction accidents
with upwards of 100 vehcles involved.

In article <u0hhkq$3fomk$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
>can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
>Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
>I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
>an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
>had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.

(Hal Heydt)
One technique--if your nerves can take it--is to follow someone
else, regardless of how fast they're gooing. Just stay far
enough back that you *just* have solid visibility on their tail
lights. If said lights get suddenly brighter, move the shoulder
and hit the brakes.

On 4/4/2023 1:17 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <u0hhkq$3fomk$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
>> can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
>> Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
>> I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
>> an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
>> had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> One technique--if your nerves can take it--is to follow someone
> else, regardless of how fast they're gooing. Just stay far
> enough back that you *just* have solid visibility on their tail
> lights. If said lights get suddenly brighter, move the shoulder
> and hit the brakes.

I only had about another 10 miles to go to the off-ramp to the county
Sheriff's dispatch center that was my destination. ;)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <u0hhkq$3fomk$1@dont-email.me>,
>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
>>can't see to the front end of their hoods.... I had to drive on
>>Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog.
>>I was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
>>an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
>>had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>One technique--if your nerves can take it--is to follow someone
>else, regardless of how fast they're gooing. Just stay far
>enough back that you *just* have solid visibility on their tail
>lights. If said lights get suddenly brighter, move the shoulder
>and hit the brakes.

I once drove (in the 1980s) from Los Angeles to Las Vegas after
dark, on a freshly paved stretch of unstriped blacktop, in a heavy
downpour - followed the tail lights of the car ahead and
hoped they stayed on the highway.

On 4/4/2023 11:01 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 7:24 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <1d96eee4-5519-4e1b-b59a-25c7e2cf6295n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Jack Bohn  <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 12:44:58 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A 60 foot diameter rock recently entered the atmosphere (10kt) and
>>>>> the resulting explosion was equivalent to 400-500 kilotons
>>> TNT, which is substantially
>>>>> larger than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
>>>
>>>> Given all these recent news headlines of the form: NASA *warns
>>> humanity* that giant
>>>> space rock is headed in Earth's direction, even though they're
>>> absolutely certain it
>>>> closer to the Earth than three times the Moon's distance...
>>>>
>>>> As opposed to merely advising such members of humanity who
>>> might have an interest
>>>> in such things - usually, a *warning* relates to something that
>>> actually poses a *threat*...
>>>
>>> This is the time of year when we are reminded that a "Tornado
>>> Watch" is an alert to watch for tornadoes; the weather conditions
>>> have become favorable to tornado formation.
>>> The "Tornado Warning" is warning of an actual sighting by eye or
>>> radar of a tornado.  So using the correct word is important.
>>>
>>> Can citizen-astronomers watch these rocks a million or more miles
>>> out?  They could pretend the press release is a notification for
>>> folks with large reflectors or long exposure setups, or pocket
>>> areciboes rather than being the chicken little boy who cried
>>> wolf.
>>>
>>> (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech
>>> support for the devices he gives our mom.  I've had to rehearse
>>> her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is
>>> non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim,
>>> she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up.
>>> This is how I found out the National Weather Service has
>>> something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the
>>> stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic
>>> communications with!")
>>
>> Dense fog can facilitate mass collision events, such as the
>> 2007 one involving 108 passenger vehicles and 18 big-rig trucks
>> on northbound State Route 99 between Fowler and Fresno.
>
> Not to mention how many more pedestrians get mowed down because drivers
> can't see to the front end of their hoods....  I had to drive on
> Interstate 5 in the California Central Valley once during a heavy fog. I
> was in the far right lane, emergency blinkers on, doing maybe 30 miles
> an hour because I could see more than 10 or 20 feet in front of me and
> had multiple tractor-trailer rigs go past me doing at least 60.
>
>

Once had a trucker tell me that in some cases the fog can be very dense
but not very high. He sits high enough up that he's not catching much
fog and can see the lights of the other vehicles.

On 4 Apr 2023 at 14:41:46 BST, "Jack Bohn" <jack.bohn64@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> (I believe I've mentioned my brother has appointed me tech support for the devices he gives our mom. I've had to rehearse her in the word "notifications," as when her Echo Dot is non-responsive, with lights chasing themselves around the rim, she has to ask it, "what are my notifications?" to free it up. This is how I found out the National Weather Service has something called a "Dense Fog Advisory," which is about the stupidest alert I can think of to tie up our electronic communications with!")

We got Yellow Snow Warnings this winter. Naturally it meant "Snow
warning, grade yellow" on a scale of no-warning/yellow/red. But I liked
the phrasing and hope it was intentional.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
The Daily Mail should be forced to print the words
'The Paper That Supported Hitler' on its masthead,
just so that there is something that's true on the
front page every day. -- Mark Thomas