I was suggested this video on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-EgjUhRqA

and took a peek at it.

In Canada, there is a big company that makes tractors, the Massey-Ferguson
company. Chester Daniel Massey was the owner of its precursor, the Massey-
Harris company.

And he was the father of two brothers, Vincent Massey, a Governor-General
of Canada... and Raymond Massey, an actor known for his appearances in
the movie Things to Come and the television series Dr. Kildare.

But from the video noted above, I learned of the black sheep of the Massey
family, Gerald Massey, poet, prophet, and mystic according to the title of
a biography.

It seems that he published books of crank archaeology which claimed that
Ancient Egypt contributed even more to civilization than it actually did, and
that Egypt's origins were in the soil of Great Britain and in ancient Israel.

And it is from uncritical acceptance of his writings, not considered credible
by genuine Egyptologists, that some people have claimed that the story of
Jesus in the Bible was copied from an earlier source - the Egyptian mythology
of Horus.

The video also gives a source for the claims about Mithras - which even
Carl Sagan accepted.

John Savard

On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 10:06:49 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> I was suggested this video on YouTube
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-EgjUhRqA
>
> and took a peek at it.
>
> In Canada, there is a big company that makes tractors, the Massey-Ferguson
> company.

Massey-Ferguson was bought out by an American company more than thirty
years ago. It still exists as a sub-unit, or a brand, of the parent company but
the HQ is in the US.

William Hyde

On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 7:06:49 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> I was suggested this video on YouTube
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-EgjUhRqA
>
> and took a peek at it.
>
> In Canada, there is a big company that makes tractors, the Massey-Ferguson
> company. Chester Daniel Massey was the owner of its precursor, the Massey-
> Harris company.
>
> And he was the father of two brothers, Vincent Massey, a Governor-General
> of Canada... and Raymond Massey, an actor known for his appearances in
> the movie Things to Come and the television series Dr. Kildare.
>
> But from the video noted above, I learned of the black sheep of the Massey
> family, Gerald Massey, poet, prophet, and mystic according to the title of
> a biography.
>
> It seems that he published books of crank archaeology which claimed that
> Ancient Egypt contributed even more to civilization than it actually did, and
> that Egypt's origins were in the soil of Great Britain and in ancient Israel.
>
> And it is from uncritical acceptance of his writings, not considered credible
> by genuine Egyptologists, that some people have claimed that the story of
> Jesus in the Bible was copied from an earlier source - the Egyptian mythology
> of Horus.
>
> The video also gives a source for the claims about Mithras - which even
> Carl Sagan accepted.
>
> John Savard
The problem with the "comparative religions" school is that it never had anywhere to go, other than the lay/ fringe conjecture that Jesus simply didn't exist. In practice, they ran into two problems, one practical and one theoretical. The practical problem is that we have long since confirmed that the same ideas and themes (notably "virgin birth") were already a part of Jewish thought in the inter-Testamental period, removing the need for direct borrowing from "pagan" sources that often proved to be of more recent origin. The theoretical problem is that none of this would be accepted or even comprehended as an argument against the historicity of Jesus and the Christian Gospels in the actual context of early Christianity. "Myth" and "history" were not mutually exclusive domains, nor was religious syncretism taboo. If anything, Gentile Christians would have approved of the idea of parallels between pagan myth and the narrative of Jesus, because it showed that the attributes of the old gods were fulfilled by a person they could place within recent history. In the absence of anything that would scandalize the early church, the invariable "conspiracy theory" overtones fail as much as any of the arguments. And yes, I have actual credentials in this field.

On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 4:39:32 PM UTC-6, David Brown wrote:
> other than the lay/ fringe conjecture that Jesus simply didn't exist.

While I am an atheist myself, I do believe that there was a historical Jesus.

There are many cases in Asia and Africa of a new religion being started by a charismatic
figure, and so a historical Jesus who preached new ideas could well have brought
Christianity into existence without performing miracles or rising from the dead.

But somebody in his mother's basement writing the New Testament? No. After
Christianity got rolling, things like the Book of Mormon were possible, but not in a
milieu in which beliefs similar to Christianity weren't well established - when what
was being started was a new religion, not a new denomination.

John Savard

On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 2:42:01 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:

> Massey-Ferguson was bought out by an American company more than thirty
> years ago. It still exists as a sub-unit, or a brand, of the parent company but
> the HQ is in the US.

At least it's owned by Allis-Chalmers, which I remember from their ads in
_Scientific American_, and not John Deere. So Canadian farmers might be
able to fix their tractors when they break down.

John Savard