On 2023-04-13 7:43 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
> How is it Thomas Convenient didn't suck the first time you read it? As
> it did for me.

I found the main character somewhat annoying, but plausible given his
circumstances. I liked the other protagonist characters and the
setting. In my late teens at the time, I wasn't yet put off by the
EEEEEVIL antagonist. I did find some of the names to be ridiculous:
"Drool Rockworm", good grief.

I *was* quite annoyed to learn, a few years later, that leprosy could
in fact be treated. If the novels were set in an earlier period, that
wasn't clear to me.

Joel

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On Sunday, 16 April 2023 at 17:19:25 UTC+1, Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2023-04-13 7:43 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
> > How is it Thomas Convenient didn't suck the first time you read it? As
> > it did for me.
> I found the main character somewhat annoying, but plausible given his
> circumstances. I liked the other protagonist characters and the
> setting. In my late teens at the time, I wasn't yet put off by the
> EEEEEVIL antagonist. I did find some of the names to be ridiculous:
> "Drool Rockworm", good grief.
>
> I *was* quite annoyed to learn, a few years later, that leprosy could
> in fact be treated. If the novels were set in an earlier period, that
> wasn't clear to me.

I'm hazy now on what the book says, but here's references.
<https://unbeliever.fandom.com/wiki/Leprosy>
<https://unbeliever.fandom.com/wiki/Thomas_Covenant>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Foul%27s_Bane>
<https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/leprosy>

I've read at least one bible with footnotes which say that
when the bible says "leprosy", it is not necessarily referring
to Hansen's disease; other conditions presenting similarly
were not distinguished.

<https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/leprosy>
refers to "the introduction of multi-drug therapy in the
early 1980s" which apparently totally eliminates the bacteria.
That's from Australia.

The first and second books were published in 1977.
"The Second Chronicles" are set ten years later and
published starting in 1980. Dates from Wikipedia.

What I thought I had read: The story was contemporary,
Thomas Covenant contracted leprosy previously. He was
alone and he didn't seek treatment promptly. He is either
cured or in remission from the infection, but that cure
doesn't restore loss of feeling caused by damage to nerves.
Nerves don't heal. He has no feeling in hands and feet, and
he has been taught to inspect himself (VSE) for accidental
injuries that he didn't feel. Leprosy doesn't cause gross
tissue damage, accidents and other untreated infections
cause gross tissue damage. Thomas Covenant lost two
right hand fingers due to gangrene, a condition where a loss
of local blood supply causes body tissue to die. He is divorced,
if not for the disease then it didn't help, and he is feared and
shunned by neighbours, who don't want to test the theory that
Hansen's disease isn't infectious because then where does it
come from. Or because they believe their bible - without footnotes.

When he enters the secondary world, The Land, he receives
local medical treatment which restores his sense loss.

He firmly disbelieves in secondary worlds.

On 17/04/23 08:52, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 16 April 2023 at 17:19:25 UTC+1, Joel Polowin wrote:
>> On 2023-04-13 7:43 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
>>> How is it Thomas Convenient didn't suck the first time you read it? As
>>> it did for me.
>> I found the main character somewhat annoying, but plausible given his
>> circumstances. I liked the other protagonist characters and the
>> setting. In my late teens at the time, I wasn't yet put off by the
>> EEEEEVIL antagonist. I did find some of the names to be ridiculous:
>> "Drool Rockworm", good grief.
>>
>> I *was* quite annoyed to learn, a few years later, that leprosy could
>> in fact be treated. If the novels were set in an earlier period, that
>> wasn't clear to me.
>
> I'm hazy now on what the book says, but here's references.
> <https://unbeliever.fandom.com/wiki/Leprosy>
> <https://unbeliever.fandom.com/wiki/Thomas_Covenant>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Foul%27s_Bane>
> <https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/leprosy>
>
> I've read at least one bible with footnotes which say that
> when the bible says "leprosy", it is not necessarily referring
> to Hansen's disease; other conditions presenting similarly
> were not distinguished.
>
> <https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/leprosy>
> refers to "the introduction of multi-drug therapy in the
> early 1980s" which apparently totally eliminates the bacteria.
> That's from Australia.
>
> The first and second books were published in 1977.
> "The Second Chronicles" are set ten years later and
> published starting in 1980. Dates from Wikipedia.
>
> What I thought I had read: The story was contemporary,
> Thomas Covenant contracted leprosy previously. He was
> alone and he didn't seek treatment promptly. He is either
> cured or in remission from the infection, but that cure
> doesn't restore loss of feeling caused by damage to nerves.
> Nerves don't heal. He has no feeling in hands and feet, and
> he has been taught to inspect himself (VSE) for accidental
> injuries that he didn't feel. Leprosy doesn't cause gross
> tissue damage, accidents and other untreated infections
> cause gross tissue damage. Thomas Covenant lost two
> right hand fingers due to gangrene, a condition where a loss
> of local blood supply causes body tissue to die. He is divorced,
> if not for the disease then it didn't help, and he is feared and
> shunned by neighbours, who don't want to test the theory that
> Hansen's disease isn't infectious because then where does it
> come from. Or because they believe their bible - without footnotes.
>
> When he enters the secondary world, The Land, he receives
> local medical treatment which restores his sense loss.
>
> He firmly disbelieves in secondary worlds.

Thank you for that outline. I started the Thomas_Covenant series within
the last year or two but did not remember any detail till your post. I
did not read very far as I did not enjoy the writing style nor the slow
and drearily sombre pace.

On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 12:59:45 AM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
[snip]
> I started the Thomas_Covenant series within
> the last year or two but did not remember any detail till your post. I
> did not read very far as I did not enjoy the writing style nor the slow
> and drearily sombre pace.

To quote "Play it again, Frodo" by Dave Langford ( _White Dwarf_ #79,
1986):

> "Hellfire!" erupted Thomas Covenant, his raw, self-inflicted nostrils
> clenching in white hot, stoical anguish while his gaunt, compulsory visage
> knotted with fey misery. His lungs were clogged with ruin. A hot, gelid,
> fulvous tide of self-accusation dinned in his ear: _leper outcast
> unclean_...
> To release the analystic refulgence, the wild magic of the white gold ring
> he wore, could conceivable shatter the Arch of Time, utterly destroy the
> Land, and put a premature, preterite end to the plot!
> Yet what other way was there? The argute notion pierced his mind like a
> jerid. Only thus could the unambergrised malison of Lord Foul be aneled.
> Only thus. Hellfire and damnation!
> At that point he was struck by a swift, sapid lucubration.

On 2023-04-16 2:52 p.m., Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 16 April 2023 at 17:19:25 UTC+1, Joel Polowin wrote:
>> On 2023-04-13 7:43 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
>>> How is it Thomas Convenient didn't suck the first time you read it? As
>>> it did for me.
>> I found the main character somewhat annoying, but plausible given his
>> circumstances. I liked the other protagonist characters and the
>> setting. In my late teens at the time, I wasn't yet put off by the
>> EEEEEVIL antagonist. I did find some of the names to be ridiculous:
>> "Drool Rockworm", good grief.
>>
>> I *was* quite annoyed to learn, a few years later, that leprosy could
>> in fact be treated. If the novels were set in an earlier period, that
>> wasn't clear to me.
>
> I'm hazy now on what the book says, but here's references.
> <https://unbeliever.fandom.com/wiki/Leprosy>
> <https://unbeliever.fandom.com/wiki/Thomas_Covenant>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Foul%27s_Bane>
> <https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/leprosy>
>
> I've read at least one bible with footnotes which say that
> when the bible says "leprosy", it is not necessarily referring
> to Hansen's disease; other conditions presenting similarly
> were not distinguished.
>
> <https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/leprosy>
> refers to "the introduction of multi-drug therapy in the
> early 1980s" which apparently totally eliminates the bacteria.
> That's from Australia.

Yes. He wrote the first book during the window in which the disease had
become antibiotic-resistant and the new treatment hadn't yet brought in.

>
> The first and second books were published in 1977.
> "The Second Chronicles" are set ten years later and
> published starting in 1980. Dates from Wikipedia.
>
> What I thought I had read: The story was contemporary,
> Thomas Covenant contracted leprosy previously. He was
> alone and he didn't seek treatment promptly. He is either
> cured or in remission from the infection, but that cure
> doesn't restore loss of feeling caused by damage to nerves.
> Nerves don't heal. He has no feeling in hands and feet, and
> he has been taught to inspect himself (VSE) for accidental
> injuries that he didn't feel. Leprosy doesn't cause gross
> tissue damage, accidents and other untreated infections
> cause gross tissue damage. Thomas Covenant lost two
> right hand fingers due to gangrene, a condition where a loss
> of local blood supply causes body tissue to die. He is divorced,
> if not for the disease then it didn't help, and he is feared and
> shunned by neighbours, who don't want to test the theory that
> Hansen's disease isn't infectious because then where does it
> come from.

Well it is infectious. Just not very.

On Monday, 17 April 2023 at 18:36:18 UTC+1, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 12:59:45 AM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:
> [snip]
> > I started the Thomas_Covenant series within
> > the last year or two but did not remember any detail till your post. I
> > did not read very far as I did not enjoy the writing style nor the slow
> > and drearily sombre pace.
> To quote "Play it again, Frodo" by Dave Langford ( _White Dwarf_ #79,
> 1986):
>
> > "Hellfire!" erupted Thomas Covenant, his raw, self-inflicted nostrils
> > clenching in white hot, stoical anguish while his gaunt, compulsory visage
> > knotted with fey misery. His lungs were clogged with ruin. A hot, gelid,
> > fulvous tide of self-accusation dinned in his ear: _leper outcast
> > unclean_...
> > To release the analystic refulgence, the wild magic of the white gold ring
> > he wore, could conceivable shatter the Arch of Time, utterly destroy the
> > Land, and put a premature, preterite end to the plot!
> > Yet what other way was there? The argute notion pierced his mind like a
> > jerid. Only thus could the unambergrised malison of Lord Foul be aneled..
> > Only thus. Hellfire and damnation!
> > At that point he was struck by a swift, sapid lucubration.

I though I had you but:
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/anele>

Shame on /me/ if I look up "jerid". I'm visualising
the "gerund" illustrated by Ronald Searle.
<https://www.fulltable.com/vts/aoi/s/searle/molesworth/aa.html>
TL;DR if The Grinch was an anteater.