The following link is to an 2012 article in _Empire_ magazine
about Paul Verhoeven and three of the movies he made in
Hollywood from 1987 to 1997. Some here may find it of interest:

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

Peter Wezeman wrote:
> The following link is to an 2012 article in _Empire_ magazine
> about Paul Verhoeven and three of the movies he made in
> Hollywood from 1987 to 1997. Some here may find it of interest:
>
> https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/

Quite the commentary on Hollywood, particularly the story where producer Ron Shussett complained that David Cronenberg's attempt at a script was "the Phillip K. Dick" version, when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars," and that shortly after Shusset quit _Total Recall_ to develop the project that became _Alien_ with Dan O'Bannon. Said development must have included sending the finished film back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!

To quote another movie, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

--
-Jack

On 5/5/23 06:46, Jack Bohn wrote:
> Peter Wezeman wrote:
>> The following link is to an 2012 article in _Empire_ magazine
>> about Paul Verhoeven and three of the movies he made in
>> Hollywood from 1987 to 1997. Some here may find it of interest:
>>
>> https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/
>
> Quite the commentary on Hollywood, particularly the story where producer Ron Shussett complained that David Cronenberg's attempt at a script was "the Phillip K. Dick" version, when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars," and that shortly after Shusset quit _Total Recall_ to develop the project that became _Alien_ with Dan O'Bannon. Said development must have included sending the finished film back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!
>
> To quote another movie, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
>

Any day when you can work a quote in from "The Man Who Shot Liberty
Valence" is a good day. Well done, sir.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer (Retired, mostly)

On 5/5/23 06:46, Jack Bohn wrote:
> Peter Wezeman wrote:
>> The following link is to an 2012 article in _Empire_ magazine
>> about Paul Verhoeven and three of the movies he made in
>> Hollywood from 1987 to 1997. Some here may find it of interest:
>>
>> https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/
>
> Quite the commentary on Hollywood, particularly the story where producer Ron Shussett complained that David Cronenberg's attempt at a script was "the Phillip K. Dick" version, when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars," and that shortly after Shusset quit _Total Recall_ to develop the project that became _Alien_ with Dan O'Bannon. Said development must have included sending the finished film back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!
>
> To quote another movie, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
>

Any day when you can work a quote in from "The Man Who Shot Liberty
Valence" is a good day. Well done, sir.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer (Retired, mostly)

On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 7:46:55 AM UTC-6, Jack Bohn wrote:
> when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars,"

> Said development must have included sending the finished film
> back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!

Couldn't they have wanted, back before 1979, the movie that
was based on a story to be set on Mars to be... a certain kind
of adventure movie...

which, after 1981, was most easily described as "Raiders of the
Lost Ark Go to Mars", but which was still a concept at the earlier
time, just with a different name... because movies like Raiders of
the Lost Ark had already existed...

even if not as _contemporary_ movies, but instead as classic
movies from the 1930s or thereabouts?

John Savard

On Saturday, 6 May 2023 at 22:52:58 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 7:46:55 AM UTC-6, Jack Bohn wrote:
> > when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars,"
> > Said development must have included sending the finished film
> > back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!
> Couldn't they have wanted, back before 1979, the movie that
> was based on a story to be set on Mars to be... a certain kind
> of adventure movie...
>
> which, after 1981, was most easily described as "Raiders of the
> Lost Ark Go to Mars", but which was still a concept at the earlier
> time, just with a different name... because movies like Raiders of
> the Lost Ark had already existed...
>
> even if not as _contemporary_ movies, but instead as classic
> movies from the 1930s or thereabouts?

Logical. See also <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Recall_%281990_film%29>
which reproduces the quote.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raiders_of_the_Lost_Ark>
apparently was conceived in 1973 but was not being made
yet and was titled "The Adventures of Indiana Smith".
Cited precedents are "Buck Rogers (1939), Zorro's Fighting
Legion (1939), Spy Smasher (1942), and Don Winslow of
the Navy (1942)". How far these resemble "Indiana Smith"
is giving me a bit of trouble.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Savage:_The_Man_of_Bronze
is from 1975 but looks older.

On Sat, 6 May 2023 16:05:19 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 6 May 2023 at 22:52:58 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 7:46:55?AM UTC-6, Jack Bohn wrote:
>> > when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars,"
>> > Said development must have included sending the finished film
>> > back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!
>> Couldn't they have wanted, back before 1979, the movie that
>> was based on a story to be set on Mars to be... a certain kind
>> of adventure movie...
>>
>> which, after 1981, was most easily described as "Raiders of the
>> Lost Ark Go to Mars", but which was still a concept at the earlier
>> time, just with a different name... because movies like Raiders of
>> the Lost Ark had already existed...
>>
>> even if not as _contemporary_ movies, but instead as classic
>> movies from the 1930s or thereabouts?
>
>Logical. See also <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Recall_%281990_film%29>
>which reproduces the quote.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raiders_of_the_Lost_Ark>
>apparently was conceived in 1973 but was not being made
>yet and was titled "The Adventures of Indiana Smith".
>Cited precedents are "Buck Rogers (1939), Zorro's Fighting
>Legion (1939), Spy Smasher (1942), and Don Winslow of
>the Navy (1942)". How far these resemble "Indiana Smith"
>is giving me a bit of trouble.

If the IMDb entry is to be trusted, this is a 4-hour compilation of a
serial. If it is at all like /Adventures Of Captain Marvel – The
Serial Classic – Shazam!/, each episode ends with a cliffhanger, to
get the kids to come back next week.

One of the notes indicates that this appeared on TV, and I suspect it
did, but I also suspect it appeared in 1939 in theaters.

So, in the sense of having cliff-hangers every so often, it is
structually similar. Whether it could be transformed into a serial
(that is, whether the parts delimited by cliffhangers are all about
the same length or not) is another question.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Savage:_The_Man_of_Bronze
>is from 1975 but looks older.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 6 May 2023 at 22:52:58 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 7:46:55 AM UTC-6, Jack Bohn wrote:
> > > when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars,"
> > > Said development must have included sending the finished film
> > > back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!
> > Couldn't they have wanted, back before 1979, the movie that
> > was based on a story to be set on Mars to be... a certain kind
> > of adventure movie...
> >
> > which, after 1981, was most easily described as "Raiders of the
> > Lost Ark Go to Mars", but which was still a concept at the earlier
> > time, just with a different name... because movies like Raiders of
> > the Lost Ark had already existed...
> >
> > even if not as _contemporary_ movies, but instead as classic
> > movies from the 1930s or thereabouts?

Alas, it fairly quickly came to me that the early '70s big, fun, and most importantly - successful adventure film would be "The Three Musketeers". Although the sf movies up until Star Wars were generally dour, there were small-budget adventures; "The Land..." and "The People That Time Forgot," and "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad," with "Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger" in the works. This would have been great, as if the quote were really "Sinbad Goes to Mars" it would accidently be the title of a story concept Harryhausen was trying to work out!

> Logical. See also <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Recall_%281990_film%29>
> which reproduces the quote.

It moves the quote to 1984, which is well into the Indy series, and also after "Blade Runner" would have started a back to Phillip K. Dick movement.

If Shusset left in '84, it was possibly to something in long development. He was producer on "King Kong Lives"(1986). His only credit on "Aliens"(1986) is for characters created by.

--
-Jack

Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 6 May 2023 16:05:19 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, 6 May 2023 at 22:52:58 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>
> >> even if not as _contemporary_ movies, but instead as classic
> >> movies from the 1930s or thereabouts?
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raiders_of_the_Lost_Ark>
> >apparently was conceived in 1973 but was not being made
> >yet and was titled "The Adventures of Indiana Smith".
> >Cited precedents are "Buck Rogers (1939), Zorro's Fighting
> >Legion (1939), Spy Smasher (1942), and Don Winslow of
> >the Navy (1942)". How far these resemble "Indiana Smith"
> >is giving me a bit of trouble.

> If the IMDb entry is to be trusted, this is a 4-hour compilation of a
> serial.

Recent compilations such as onto DVD or Blu-Ray or video file. (Watching "The Phantom Empire" as the serial in my nightly matinee, the disk is 4 hours divided into 12 chapterstops.) Some serials were edited down into feature-length movies, listed on IMDb under "Connections." Even losing all but one opening credits, and end credits, and the "What Has Gone Before" saves only a half hour or so, so you'll still chop out half the footage, and not the "money shots" like car crashes, train crashes, plane crashes, etc.

> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Savage:_The_Man_of_Bronze
> >is from 1975 but looks older.

Just prior to the Star Wars/Indiana Jones framing of the serials, the public perception of them was framed by the Batman TV series. The Doc Savage movie was tapping into that.

--
-Jack

On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 11:46:55 PM UTC+10, Jack Bohn wrote:
> Peter Wezeman wrote:
> > The following link is to an 2012 article in _Empire_ magazine
> > about Paul Verhoeven and three of the movies he made in
> > Hollywood from 1987 to 1997. Some here may find it of interest:
> >
> > https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/paul-verhoeven/
> Quite the commentary on Hollywood, particularly the story where producer Ron Shussett complained that David Cronenberg's attempt at a script was "the Phillip K. Dick" version, when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars," and that shortly after Shusset quit _Total Recall_ to develop the project that became _Alien_ with Dan O'Bannon. Said development must have included sending the finished film back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!
>
> To quote another movie, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

I don't know when various people were working on the script, or when the "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars"
But it's certainly possible that Shusset left working on the script to work on Alien and he was asked about the the history of Total Recall later (maybe when the film was in production or coming out) and expressed it as "he delivered 'the Phillip K Dick' version but they wanted 'Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars' as a quick way of expressing things people would understand at the time of the interview rather than how people were discussing it at the time

On Sunday, 7 May 2023 at 22:59:13 UTC+1, Jack Bohn wrote:
> Robert Carnegie wrote:
> > On Saturday, 6 May 2023 at 22:52:58 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> > > On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 7:46:55 AM UTC-6, Jack Bohn wrote:
> > > > when they wanted "Raiders of the Lost Ark Go to Mars,"
> > > > Said development must have included sending the finished film
> > > > back in time to premier in 1979, two years before _Raiders_!
> > > Couldn't they have wanted, back before 1979, the movie that
> > > was based on a story to be set on Mars to be... a certain kind
> > > of adventure movie...
> > >
> > > which, after 1981, was most easily described as "Raiders of the
> > > Lost Ark Go to Mars", but which was still a concept at the earlier
> > > time, just with a different name... because movies like Raiders of
> > > the Lost Ark had already existed...
> > >
> > > even if not as _contemporary_ movies, but instead as classic
> > > movies from the 1930s or thereabouts?
> Alas, it fairly quickly came to me that the early '70s big, fun, and most importantly - successful adventure film would be "The Three Musketeers". Although the sf movies up until Star Wars were generally dour, there were small-budget adventures; "The Land..." and "The People That Time Forgot," and "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad," with "Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger" in the works. This would have been great, as if the quote were really "Sinbad Goes to Mars" it would accidently be the title of a story concept Harryhausen was trying to work out!
> > Logical. See also <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Recall_%281990_film%29>
> > which reproduces the quote.
> It moves the quote to 1984, which is well into the Indy series, and also after "Blade Runner" would have started a back to Phillip K. Dick movement.
>
> If Shusset left in '84, it was possibly to something in long development. He was producer on "King Kong Lives"(1986). His only credit on "Aliens"(1986) is for characters created by.

This story is complicated, but I think it's that Ronald Shusett
personally bought the film rights to "We Can Remember It..."
and remained involved with the project, wherever it was
currently lodged. It was David Cronenberg who was brought
in some time in 1984 and who left about a year later.

But in the meantime, these people were doing other things
too, like making _Alien_ (1979).