That seems to be the obvious joke to make, where

https://nationalpost.com/news/first-virgin-birth-in-crocodiles-has-been-recorded-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-dinosaurs

a crocodile found to have laid viable eggs - although none hatched -
without male assistance is believed to provide insights as to the
reproductive capabilities of dinosaurs as well.

John Savard

On Saturday, 10 June 2023 at 07:02:28 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> That seems to be the obvious joke to make, where
>
> https://nationalpost.com/news/first-virgin-birth-in-crocodiles-has-been-recorded-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-dinosaurs
>
> a crocodile found to have laid viable eggs - although none hatched -
> without male assistance is believed to provide insights as to the
> reproductive capabilities of dinosaurs as well.
>
> John Savard

I think an explanation on BBC radio clarified it -
let's see if I get this right - an unfertilised egg cell
typically contains one set of chromosomes,
which need to be in pairs to function - each built
from both of the corresponding chromosomes
of the mother. Like:

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
Now quick time for jumps over to come dog aid of the party

However, the egg in this case that was examined
genetically, contained pairs of identical chromosomes.
This implies that recessive bad genes will be a problem:
an individual may normally have several bad genes on
a chromosome which are O.K. on its pair, with the
outcome being no problem. In this egg, that wasn't the case.

But this may be mostly nonsense.

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 23:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>That seems to be the obvious joke to make, where
>
>https://nationalpost.com/news/first-virgin-birth-in-crocodiles-has-been-recorded-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-dinosaurs
>
>a crocodile found to have laid viable eggs - although none hatched -
>without male assistance is believed to provide insights as to the
>reproductive capabilities of dinosaurs as well.

If none of them hatched, in what sense were they "viable"?

Was someone counting crocodiles before they hatched?
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 10:18:49 AM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 10 June 2023 at 07:02:28 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
> > That seems to be the obvious joke to make, where
> >
> > https://nationalpost.com/news/first-virgin-birth-in-crocodiles-has-been-recorded-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-dinosaurs
> >
> > a crocodile found to have laid viable eggs - although none hatched -
> > without male assistance is believed to provide insights as to the
> > reproductive capabilities of dinosaurs as well.
> >
> > John Savard
> I think an explanation on BBC radio clarified it -
> let's see if I get this right - an unfertilised egg cell
> typically contains one set of chromosomes,
> which need to be in pairs to function - each built
> from both of the corresponding chromosomes
> of the mother. Like:
>
> Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party
> The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
> Now quick time for jumps over to come dog aid of the party
>
> However, the egg in this case that was examined
> genetically, contained pairs of identical chromosomes.
> This implies that recessive bad genes will be a problem:
> an individual may normally have several bad genes on
> a chromosome which are O.K. on its pair, with the
> outcome being no problem. In this egg, that wasn't the case.

Actually the chromosomes are not completely identical. What happens in this case is that a polar body (which normally functions to nutritionally support the egg cells) fuses with the egg cell. Both egg cell and polar body cell contain chromosomes, but the chromosomal material may be from the crocodile's mother or father and sometimes both since, before formation of the polar body, crossing over occurs. I read somewhere that the resulting crocodiles contained chromosomes that had different material (i.e. a different parental origin) at the tips of the chromosomes than in the rest of chromosome.. This does not mean that a good portion of the genome was not identical and recessive genes could be a problem.

On 6/10/2023 9:17 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 23:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> That seems to be the obvious joke to make, where
>>
>> https://nationalpost.com/news/first-virgin-birth-in-crocodiles-has-been-recorded-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-dinosaurs
>>
>> a crocodile found to have laid viable eggs - although none hatched -
>> without male assistance is believed to provide insights as to the
>> reproductive capabilities of dinosaurs as well.
>
> If none of them hatched, in what sense were they "viable"?
>
> Was someone counting crocodiles before they hatched?

Someone who grew up with an eccentric ABCs primer that used crocodiles
instead of chickens for the letter C?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 10:08:37 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 6/10/2023 9:17 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 23:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That seems to be the obvious joke to make, where
>>>
>>> https://nationalpost.com/news/first-virgin-birth-in-crocodiles-has-been-recorded-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-dinosaurs
>>>
>>> a crocodile found to have laid viable eggs - although none hatched -
>>> without male assistance is believed to provide insights as to the
>>> reproductive capabilities of dinosaurs as well.
>>
>> If none of them hatched, in what sense were they "viable"?
>>
>> Was someone counting crocodiles before they hatched?
>
>Someone who grew up with an eccentric ABCs primer that used crocodiles
>instead of chickens for the letter C?

Perhaps.

My favorite abcdarium has "C is for Clara, who wasted away".

I substituted "crocodiles" for "chickens" because it is crocodiles of
which we are speaking, at least in general terms.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."