"Roadkill" by Dennis E. Taylor
https://www.amazon.com/Roadkill-Dennis-Taylor/dp/1680683128/

A standalone science fiction space opera book, no sequel or prequel. I
read the well bound and well printed POD (print on demand) trade
paperback published by the Ethan Ellenberg Literary Agency in 2022. I
have really enjoyed all of the series and standalone books published by
the author, especially his Bobiverse and Outland books.

Jack Kernigan thought he was having a bad life when he got thrown out of
MIT for a false accusation. Then he wrecked his dad's delivery truck on
a lonely road, hitting an invisible object. The invisible object turned
out to be a seven foot tall toolbelt wearing squirrel who died. And
then he and his two best friends found the invisible spaceship that the
invisible squirrel came to Earth on. They managed to get on the
spaceship which was run by an AI that Jack named Sheldon. And that is
when things got weird.

I really liked this book since it is just a good old pulp story. I
rated it so high because I stayed up too late last night reading it.
And, I will probably reread it some day. And, I liked the ending a lot,
not rushed, not too long, just right.

The author has a website at:
http://dennisetaylor.org/

My rating: 5 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars (903 reviews)

Lynn

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 8:32:28 PM UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Roadkill" by Dennis E. Taylor
> https://www.amazon.com/Roadkill-Dennis-Taylor/dp/1680683128/
>
> A standalone science fiction space opera book, no sequel or prequel. I
> read the well bound and well printed POD (print on demand) trade
> paperback published by the Ethan Ellenberg Literary Agency in 2022. I
> have really enjoyed all of the series and standalone books published by
> the author, especially his Bobiverse and Outland books.
>
> Jack Kernigan thought he was having a bad life when he got thrown out of
> MIT for a false accusation. Then he wrecked his dad's delivery truck on
> a lonely road, hitting an invisible object. The invisible object turned
> out to be a seven foot tall toolbelt wearing squirrel who died. And
> then he and his two best friends found the invisible spaceship that the
> invisible squirrel came to Earth on. They managed to get on the
> spaceship which was run by an AI that Jack named Sheldon. And that is
> when things got weird.
>
> I really liked this book since it is just a good old pulp story. I
> rated it so high because I stayed up too late last night reading it.
> And, I will probably reread it some day. And, I liked the ending a lot,
> not rushed, not too long, just right.
>
> The author has a website at:
> http://dennisetaylor.org/
>
> My rating: 5 out of 5 stars
> Amazon rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars (903 reviews)
>
> Lynn
Thanks for this. I think I tried one of Taylor's books and it didn't cause me to search for anything else he might have written, but that does sound amousing.

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-6, Andrew McDowell wrote:

> Thanks for this. I think I tried one of Taylor's books and it didn't cause me to search for anything else he might have written, but that does sound amousing.

He is also the author of the Bobiverse books, you need to give those a try.

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:20:31 PM UTC+1, Steve Dodds wrote:
> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-6, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>
> > Thanks for this. I think I tried one of Taylor's books and it didn't cause me to search for anything else he might have written, but that does sound amousing.
> He is also the author of the Bobiverse books, you need to give those a try.
I almost bought Roadkill on Kindle just now. It used to be very easy to read a decent sample before buying, but for Roadkill they only offered a small sample, off a button I hadn't seen before, which worried me. These days Amazon doesn't let you download for a specific device, which always worries me - you have to buy and then download for your Kindle. When I tried doing this it said could not download, which I hadn''t seen before and which worried me. After some searching I found how to request a refund for download problems. Just after that I noticed it had started to appear on my Kindle, but of cousre shortly disappeared again. I will live on old paperbacks for a week to let this all die down (currently "The Kif Strike Back") and if I am still interested next Saturday I may risk trying to buy it again.

On 8/07/23 23:48, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:20:31 PM UTC+1, Steve Dodds wrote:
>> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-6, Andrew McDowell
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for this. I think I tried one of Taylor's books and it
>>> didn't cause me to search for anything else he might have
>>> written, but that does sound amousing.
>> He is also the author of the Bobiverse books, you need to give
>> those a try.
> I almost bought Roadkill on Kindle just now. It used to be very easy
> to read a decent sample before buying, but for Roadkill they only
> offered a small sample, off a button I hadn't seen before, which
> worried me. These days Amazon doesn't let you download for a specific
> device, which always worries me - you have to buy and then download
> for your Kindle. When I tried doing this it said could not download,
> which I hadn''t seen before and which worried me. After some
> searching I found how to request a refund for download problems. Just
> after that I noticed it had started to appear on my Kindle, but of
> cousre shortly disappeared again. I will live on old paperbacks for a
> week to let this all die down (currently "The Kif Strike Back") and
> if I am still interested next Saturday I may risk trying to buy it
> again.

I haven't bought from Amazon for a while but never trusted them since
they removed copies of 1984 from customer Kindles so downloaded the free
Amazon product, Kindle for PC, to which all my purchases went before
being transferred to my unregistered Kindle via Calibre.
Why do they not let you download for a specific device?

In article <u8imo1$2r0mf$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On 8/07/23 23:48, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:20:31 PM UTC+1, Steve Dodds wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-6, Andrew McDowell
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for this. I think I tried one of Taylor's books and it
>>>> didn't cause me to search for anything else he might have
>>>> written, but that does sound amousing.
>>> He is also the author of the Bobiverse books, you need to give
>>> those a try.
>> I almost bought Roadkill on Kindle just now. It used to be very easy
>> to read a decent sample before buying, but for Roadkill they only
>> offered a small sample, off a button I hadn't seen before, which
>> worried me. These days Amazon doesn't let you download for a specific
>> device, which always worries me - you have to buy and then download
>> for your Kindle. When I tried doing this it said could not download,
>> which I hadn''t seen before and which worried me. After some
>> searching I found how to request a refund for download problems. Just
>> after that I noticed it had started to appear on my Kindle, but of
>> cousre shortly disappeared again. I will live on old paperbacks for a
>> week to let this all die down (currently "The Kif Strike Back") and
>> if I am still interested next Saturday I may risk trying to buy it
>> again.
>
>I haven't bought from Amazon for a while but never trusted them since
>they removed copies of 1984 from customer Kindles so downloaded the free
>Amazon product, Kindle for PC, to which all my purchases went before
>being transferred to my unregistered Kindle via Calibre.
>Why do they not let you download for a specific device?

They do let you down load to a specific device, but the procedure has
changed. Go to

Returns & Orders=>Digital Orders=>Manage content and devices=

and on the book, choose

More Actions=>Download & Transfer by USB
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 11 Jul 2023 04:55:29 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <u8imo1$2r0mf$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>On 8/07/23 23:48, Andrew McDowell wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:20:31 PM UTC+1, Steve Dodds wrote:
>>>> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-6, Andrew McDowell
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this. I think I tried one of Taylor's books and it
>>>>> didn't cause me to search for anything else he might have
>>>>> written, but that does sound amousing.
>>>> He is also the author of the Bobiverse books, you need to give
>>>> those a try.
>>> I almost bought Roadkill on Kindle just now. It used to be very easy
>>> to read a decent sample before buying, but for Roadkill they only
>>> offered a small sample, off a button I hadn't seen before, which
>>> worried me. These days Amazon doesn't let you download for a specific
>>> device, which always worries me - you have to buy and then download
>>> for your Kindle. When I tried doing this it said could not download,
>>> which I hadn''t seen before and which worried me. After some
>>> searching I found how to request a refund for download problems. Just
>>> after that I noticed it had started to appear on my Kindle, but of
>>> cousre shortly disappeared again. I will live on old paperbacks for a
>>> week to let this all die down (currently "The Kif Strike Back") and
>>> if I am still interested next Saturday I may risk trying to buy it
>>> again.
>>
>>I haven't bought from Amazon for a while but never trusted them since
>>they removed copies of 1984 from customer Kindles so downloaded the free
>>Amazon product, Kindle for PC, to which all my purchases went before
>>being transferred to my unregistered Kindle via Calibre.
>>Why do they not let you download for a specific device?
>
>They do let you down load to a specific device, but the procedure has
>changed. Go to
>
> Returns & Orders=>Digital Orders=>Manage content and devices>
>and on the book, choose
>
> More Actions=>Download & Transfer by USB

There's also a button that lets you "schedule" a download to one or
more registered device.

But I, too, miss the ability to specify where the book goes as part of
the purchase process.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 12:11:32 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:

> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
> development was the disintegration, under Christian
> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
> of family right."

You've been using that Cochrane quote in your .sig for
a while. I'm curious what it means to you.

pt

On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 5:11:32 PM UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2023 04:55:29 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
> <tednolan>) wrote:
>
> >In article <u8imo1$2r0mf$1...@dont-email.me>, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>On 8/07/23 23:48, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> >>> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:20:31 PM UTC+1, Steve Dodds wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:01:57 AM UTC-6, Andrew McDowell
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for this. I think I tried one of Taylor's books and it
> >>>>> didn't cause me to search for anything else he might have
> >>>>> written, but that does sound amousing.
> >>>> He is also the author of the Bobiverse books, you need to give
> >>>> those a try.
> >>> I almost bought Roadkill on Kindle just now. It used to be very easy
> >>> to read a decent sample before buying, but for Roadkill they only
> >>> offered a small sample, off a button I hadn't seen before, which
> >>> worried me. These days Amazon doesn't let you download for a specific
> >>> device, which always worries me - you have to buy and then download
> >>> for your Kindle. When I tried doing this it said could not download,
> >>> which I hadn''t seen before and which worried me. After some
> >>> searching I found how to request a refund for download problems. Just
> >>> after that I noticed it had started to appear on my Kindle, but of
> >>> cousre shortly disappeared again. I will live on old paperbacks for a
> >>> week to let this all die down (currently "The Kif Strike Back") and
> >>> if I am still interested next Saturday I may risk trying to buy it
> >>> again.
> >>
> >>I haven't bought from Amazon for a while but never trusted them since
> >>they removed copies of 1984 from customer Kindles so downloaded the free
> >>Amazon product, Kindle for PC, to which all my purchases went before
> >>being transferred to my unregistered Kindle via Calibre.
> >>Why do they not let you download for a specific device?
> >
> >They do let you down load to a specific device, but the procedure has
> >changed. Go to
> >
> > Returns & Orders=>Digital Orders=>Manage content and devices=
> >
> >and on the book, choose
> >
> > More Actions=>Download & Transfer by USB
> There's also a button that lets you "schedule" a download to one or
> more registered device.
>
> But I, too, miss the ability to specify where the book goes as part of
> the purchase process.
> --
> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
> development was the disintegration, under Christian
> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
> of family right."
That sounds like what I usually do. Amazon seems to want you to read online these days (from the cloud) but it will usually deign to transfer to my Kindle via wifi. In my case it looks like it was just slower than usual - I will probably try again on Saturday. The problem with not being able to buy for a specific device is that there is a small amount of content that isn't supported on Kindle. I have only come across this when there are equations lurking around the text, but as I said the free sample section of this book didn't seem to be behaving as usual, either.

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:28:28 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 12:11:32?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
>> development was the disintegration, under Christian
>> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
>> of family right."
>
>You've been using that Cochrane quote in your .sig for
>a while. I'm curious what it means to you.

It says something interesting about the Republican Party, wedded as it
is to a form of Christianity, and Traditional Family Values.

Alternately, it is a reminder that family values, even traditional
ones, vary over time.

And now for something completely different ...
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 12:10:40 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:28:28 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 12:11:32?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> >
> >> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
> >> development was the disintegration, under Christian
> >> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
> >> of family right."
> >
> >You've been using that Cochrane quote in your .sig for
> >a while. I'm curious what it means to you.
> It says something interesting about the Republican Party, wedded as it
> is to a form of Christianity, and Traditional Family Values.
>
> Alternately, it is a reminder that family values, even traditional
> ones, vary over time.

The "classical conceptions of the family and of family right"
which Christianity 'disintegrated included the family patriarch
having life and death power over his descendants, and was
OK with literal sex slaves and concubinage.

pt

On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 12:10:40?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:28:28 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 12:11:32?PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> >
>> >> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
>> >> development was the disintegration, under Christian
>> >> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
>> >> of family right."
>> >
>> >You've been using that Cochrane quote in your .sig for
>> >a while. I'm curious what it means to you.
>> It says something interesting about the Republican Party, wedded as it
>> is to a form of Christianity, and Traditional Family Values.
>>
>> Alternately, it is a reminder that family values, even traditional
>> ones, vary over time.
>
>The "classical conceptions of the family and of family right"
>which Christianity 'disintegrated included the family patriarch
>having life and death power over his descendants, and was
>OK with literal sex slaves and concubinage.

Traditional Family Values -- the real ones, not the puny imitation
trumpeted by the Republican Party.

Values so puny that, in some cases, it is doubtful that they even know
what a "family" /is/.

IIRC, Durant (/The Story of Civilization/ CD-ROM) notes the first
stage: after the Christians got enough influence/votes in the Senate,
they passed a law requiring the Pater Familias to have a /reason/ to
order the death of one of his children. Conservatives were, of course,
livid at this interference with the traditional family.

Second attempt at changing the sig ...
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 8:32:28 PM UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Roadkill" by Dennis E. Taylor
> https://www.amazon.com/Roadkill-Dennis-Taylor/dp/1680683128/
>
> A standalone science fiction space opera book, no sequel or prequel. I
> read the well bound and well printed POD (print on demand) trade
> paperback published by the Ethan Ellenberg Literary Agency in 2022. I
> have really enjoyed all of the series and standalone books published by
> the author, especially his Bobiverse and Outland books.
>
> Jack Kernigan thought he was having a bad life when he got thrown out of
> MIT for a false accusation. Then he wrecked his dad's delivery truck on
> a lonely road, hitting an invisible object. The invisible object turned
> out to be a seven foot tall toolbelt wearing squirrel who died. And
> then he and his two best friends found the invisible spaceship that the
> invisible squirrel came to Earth on. They managed to get on the
> spaceship which was run by an AI that Jack named Sheldon. And that is
> when things got weird.
>
> I really liked this book since it is just a good old pulp story. I
> rated it so high because I stayed up too late last night reading it.
> And, I will probably reread it some day. And, I liked the ending a lot,
> not rushed, not too long, just right.
>
> The author has a website at:
> http://dennisetaylor.org/
>
> My rating: 5 out of 5 stars
> Amazon rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars (903 reviews)
>
> Lynn
I can see why you didn't put this book down - although I managed not to let it distort my usual schedule too much, I did find it very entertaining. I try to read books I have bought at least twice, though, and on second reading I found myself not looking for the author's wisdom and insight, but considering what I think is the wish-fulfillment flaw at the heart of the book. Our heroes are three pals who have the fate of the earth in their hands, but never turn to others for advice or help. They could have had trustworthy help - one of their Fathers is ex Special Forces, and is on terms of at least mutual trust with the local police chief. In the real world, this sort of cronyism is often at the root of fiascos, and at least one of the pals strikes me as more amusing than trustworthy, although nothing comes of it in the book. In fact the three stick together and exit as apparently trusted local helpers of a rather straightlaced alien bureaucracy. This is either the most unlikely aspect of the book, or they have in fact acquired an alien case officer who may be more polite than straightforward with his new employees.

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:39:23 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:
[snip-snip]
> Our heroes are three pals who have the fate of the earth in their hands,
> but never turn to others for advice or help. [snip]

Character agency is always an issue in stories/novels set in the modern
world. Modern civilization is based on complex networks of private and
public organizations. It requires trained technicians and experts to run.

It's been increasingly difficult to sell "mad scientists" and "genius
inventors" to the readers since at least WWI and definitely since the
Manhattan Project. It's no accident that Doc Smith's first series followed
genius inventors/engineers who were effectively free agents while his
second series (started 20 years later) followed government agents.

When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
agencies. You have to go out of your way to come up with a scenario
where the protagonists keep their agency instead of deferring to experts.

Some of the ways to get around this issue include:

1. Make your protagonists experts in the relevant field, e.g. Carl Sagan's
_Contact_ or Fred Hoyle's _The Black Cloud_.

2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.

3. Isolate your protagonists from civilization, e.g. Andy Weir's _The
Martian_ or _Project Hail Mary_.

4. Make your protagonists semi-independent operators, e.g. spies,
private investigators or freelance journalists/photographers.

5. Compromise and link your protagonists to a larger organization,
but put them in a small semi-independent unit, e.g. a marine squad.

On 2023-07-23, Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:

> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
> agencies.

There's a strange device sitting on the ground that has melted the snow
around it.[1] What do you do?
( ) Free space heater!
( ) Step away quickly and call 112.

> Some of the ways to get around this issue include:
> 2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.

I'll jump on this to vent a random pet peeve of mine: I'm sick and
tired of the (mostly American) trope of TV/movies where the hicktown
sheriff gets into a turf struggle with the feds. If I was sheriff
and the terrorists/zombies/aliens arrived, I would GLADLY abdicate
responsibility to somebody presumably better equipped to deal with
a vampiric infestation or whatever: Here's your office... now, how
would you like your coffee?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_radiological_accident
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

In article <slrnubqu1g.su8.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>On 2023-07-23, Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>
>> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
>> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
>> agencies.
>
>There's a strange device sitting on the ground that has melted the snow
>around it.[1] What do you do?
>( ) Free space heater!
>( ) Step away quickly and call 112.
>
>> Some of the ways to get around this issue include:
>> 2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.
>
>I'll jump on this to vent a random pet peeve of mine: I'm sick and
>tired of the (mostly American) trope of TV/movies where the hicktown
>sheriff gets into a turf struggle with the feds. If I was sheriff
>and the terrorists/zombies/aliens arrived, I would GLADLY abdicate
>responsibility to somebody presumably better equipped to deal with
>a vampiric infestation or whatever: Here's your office... now, how
>would you like your coffee?

The most recent example of this I saw actually justified it. In
The Dark Winds (based on the Hillerman novels), the local cops
and the FBI are interested in the same case (well, a set of connected
cases) but with very different goals in mind. Jurisdictional issues
force them to work together, for "at cross purposes" values of
together.

Due to liberties taken with the source material, the addition of
working magic that's not just applied psychology, the series counts
as fantasy.

>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_radiological_accident

I just read about that!

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Sunday, 23 July 2023 at 18:47:28 UTC+1, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:39:23 AM UTC-4, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> [snip-snip]
> > Our heroes are three pals who have the fate of the earth in their hands,
> > but never turn to others for advice or help. [snip]
>
> Character agency is always an issue in stories/novels set in the modern
> world. Modern civilization is based on complex networks of private and
> public organizations. It requires trained technicians and experts to run.
>
> It's been increasingly difficult to sell "mad scientists" and "genius
> inventors" to the readers since at least WWI and definitely since the
> Manhattan Project. It's no accident that Doc Smith's first series followed
> genius inventors/engineers who were effectively free agents while his
> second series (started 20 years later) followed government agents.
>
> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
> agencies. You have to go out of your way to come up with a scenario
> where the protagonists keep their agency instead of deferring to experts.
>
> Some of the ways to get around this issue include:
>
> 1. Make your protagonists experts in the relevant field, e.g. Carl Sagan's
> _Contact_ or Fred Hoyle's _The Black Cloud_.
>
> 2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.
>
> 3. Isolate your protagonists from civilization, e.g. Andy Weir's _The
> Martian_ or _Project Hail Mary_.
>
> 4. Make your protagonists semi-independent operators, e.g. spies,
> private investigators or freelance journalists/photographers.
>
> 5. Compromise and link your protagonists to a larger organization,
> but put them in a small semi-independent unit, e.g. a marine squad.

A case that may or may not fall under 2 is "I am an
American and I am holding a gun, therefore I am
invincible."

In classic Doctor Who when the Doctor is on
Earth along with his friends the Brigadier and
the soldiers of UNIT, who typically are British,
the soldiers usually start shooting at the aliens
and the bullets usually bounce off or dissolve
or generally don't work. But in this setup, UNIT
are who 911 calls when things are unearthly.
Because most people don't or didn't have the
Doctor's number.

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-4, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-07-23, Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>
> > When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
> > is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
> > agencies.
> There's a strange device sitting on the ground that has melted the snow
> around it.[1] What do you do?
> ( ) Free space heater!
> ( ) Step away quickly and call 112.
> [snip-snip]
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_radiological_accident

It's certainly possible to give your characters agency by making them
Darwin Awards nominees. Unfortunately, it also makes it harder for
your readers to sympathize with them.

Sabotage or misdirection may be a viable compromise, e.g. _Worm_.
It goes way back to at least Jules Verne: the protagonist of _Dick
Sand, A Captain at Fifteen_ (1878) ends up in serious trouble not
because he was stupid or foolish (for a 15-year-old) but because
he was sabotaged and lied to.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 5:30:08 AM UTC+10, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-07-23, Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>
> > When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
> > is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
> > agencies.
> There's a strange device sitting on the ground that has melted the snow
> around it.[1] What do you do?
> ( ) Free space heater!
> ( ) Step away quickly and call 112.
> > Some of the ways to get around this issue include:
> > 2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.
> I'll jump on this to vent a random pet peeve of mine: I'm sick and
> tired of the (mostly American) trope of TV/movies where the hicktown
> sheriff gets into a turf struggle with the feds. If I was sheriff
> and the terrorists/zombies/aliens arrived, I would GLADLY abdicate
> responsibility to somebody presumably better equipped to deal with
> a vampiric infestation or whatever: Here's your office... now, how
> would you like your coffee?

It's commonly dealt with my making the superiors incompetent, either overall or in the new circumstances,
or complete arseholes, sometimes both

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 18:57:52 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
<naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

>On 2023-07-23, Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>
>> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
>> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
>> agencies.
>
>There's a strange device sitting on the ground that has melted the snow
>around it.[1] What do you do?
>( ) Free space heater!
>( ) Step away quickly and call 112.
>
>> Some of the ways to get around this issue include:
>> 2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.
>
>I'll jump on this to vent a random pet peeve of mine: I'm sick and
>tired of the (mostly American) trope of TV/movies where the hicktown
>sheriff gets into a turf struggle with the feds. If I was sheriff
>and the terrorists/zombies/aliens arrived, I would GLADLY abdicate
>responsibility to somebody presumably better equipped to deal with
>a vampiric infestation or whatever: Here's your office... now, how
>would you like your coffee?

And then lose your next election for kowtowing to "the Feds" instead
of manning up and doing it yourself.

>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_radiological_accident
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 12:06:59 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 18:57:52 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber
> <na...@mips.inka.de> wrote:
>
> >On 2023-07-23, Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
> >
> >> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
> >> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
> >> agencies.
> >
> >There's a strange device sitting on the ground that has melted the snow
> >around it.[1] What do you do?
> >( ) Free space heater!
> >( ) Step away quickly and call 112.
> >
> >> Some of the ways to get around this issue include:
> >> 2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.
> >
> >I'll jump on this to vent a random pet peeve of mine: I'm sick and
> >tired of the (mostly American) trope of TV/movies where the hicktown
> >sheriff gets into a turf struggle with the feds. If I was sheriff
> >and the terrorists/zombies/aliens arrived, I would GLADLY abdicate
> >responsibility to somebody presumably better equipped to deal with
> >a vampiric infestation or whatever: Here's your office... now, how
> >would you like your coffee?
> And then lose your next election for kowtowing to "the Feds" instead
> of manning up and doing it yourself.
>
> >[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_radiological_accident

The recovery was filmed, and is worth watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GYg7Y_W7s

Pt

On 23/07/23 19:39, Andrew McDowell wrote:
> On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 8:32:28 PM UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> "Roadkill" by Dennis E. Taylor
>> https://www.amazon.com/Roadkill-Dennis-Taylor/dp/1680683128/
>>
>> A standalone science fiction space opera book, no sequel or
>> prequel. I read the well bound and well printed POD (print on
>> demand) trade paperback published by the Ethan Ellenberg Literary
>> Agency in 2022. I have really enjoyed all of the series and
>> standalone books published by the author, especially his Bobiverse
>> and Outland books.
>>
>> Jack Kernigan thought he was having a bad life when he got thrown
>> out of MIT for a false accusation. Then he wrecked his dad's
>> delivery truck on a lonely road, hitting an invisible object. The
>> invisible object turned out to be a seven foot tall toolbelt
>> wearing squirrel who died. And then he and his two best friends
>> found the invisible spaceship that the invisible squirrel came to
>> Earth on. They managed to get on the spaceship which was run by an
>> AI that Jack named Sheldon. And that is when things got weird.
>>
>> I really liked this book since it is just a good old pulp story. I
>> rated it so high because I stayed up too late last night reading
>> it. And, I will probably reread it some day. And, I liked the
>> ending a lot, not rushed, not too long, just right.
>>
>> The author has a website at: http://dennisetaylor.org/
>>
>> My rating: 5 out of 5 stars Amazon rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars (903
>> reviews)
>>
>> Lynn
> I can see why you didn't put this book down - although I managed not
> to let it distort my usual schedule too much, I did find it very
> entertaining. I try to read books I have bought at least twice,
> though, and on second reading I found myself not looking for the
> author's wisdom and insight, but considering what I think is the
> wish-fulfillment flaw at the heart of the book. Our heroes are three
> pals who have the fate of the earth in their hands, but never turn to
> others for advice or help. They could have had trustworthy help - one
> of their Fathers is ex Special Forces, and is on terms of at least
> mutual trust with the local police chief. In the real world, this
> sort of cronyism is often at the root of fiascos, and at least one of
> the pals strikes me as more amusing than trustworthy, although
> nothing comes of it in the book. In fact the three stick together and
> exit as apparently trusted local helpers of a rather straightlaced
> alien bureaucracy. This is either the most unlikely aspect of the
> book, or they have in fact acquired an alien case officer who may be
> more polite than straightforward with his new employees.

I couldn't read this. Stories about teenagers are not for me. As
potboilers maybe but I agreed with the Ship that the dialogue was inane.
Events were unimaginatively mundane and characters characterless. I
tried skim speed reading but still lost interest and now can't remember
how far through I did read but perhaps a quarter.
Shudders.

A twofer!

Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> Ahasuerus wrote:
>
>> Character agency is always an issue in stories/novels set in the modern
>> world. Modern civilization is based on complex networks of private and
>> public organizations. It requires trained technicians and experts to run.
>>
>> It's been increasingly difficult to sell "mad scientists" and "genius
>> inventors" to the readers since at least WWI and definitely since the
>> Manhattan Project. It's no accident that Doc Smith's first series followed
>> genius inventors/engineers who were effectively free agents while his
>> second series (started 20 years later) followed government agents.
>>
>> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
>> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
>> agencies.

The non-big "loner science" recently encountered by me include energy
extraction inventors and geologists. Both are very cagey about their
Intellectual Property. A geologist stupid enough to shoot off his mouth
about a decades-long quest may find his claim appropriated as soon as
adequate agencies are arrayed against him by those with political pull.

Don't bet your life on a 911 call.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3jKnzqCn-E>
<https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/new-dashcam-video-shows-unruly-crowd-blocking-spd-patrol-car-after-street-race-erupts-into-shooting/CRFWBY2DFFCIRNC5EHCLDAZETM/>

> There's a strange device sitting on the ground that has melted the snow
> around it.[1] What do you do?
> ( ) Free space heater!
> ( ) Step away quickly and call 112.
>
>> Some of the ways to get around this issue include:
>> 2. Make your protagonists distrust the government and/or experts.
>
> I'll jump on this to vent a random pet peeve of mine: I'm sick and
> tired of the (mostly American) trope of TV/movies where the hicktown
> sheriff gets into a turf struggle with the feds. If I was sheriff
> and the terrorists/zombies/aliens arrived, I would GLADLY abdicate
> responsibility to somebody presumably better equipped to deal with
> a vampiric infestation or whatever: Here's your office... now, how
> would you like your coffee?
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_radiological_accident

A sheriff's posse provisionally provides a plebian army for turf
battles.

<https://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/johnson-county-war-1892-invasion-northern-wyoming>
<https://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/teapot-dome-us-marines-and-presidents-reputation>

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 15:17:18 -0000 (UTC), Don <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

>A twofer!
>
>Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>> Ahasuerus wrote:
>>
>>> Character agency is always an issue in stories/novels set in the modern
>>> world. Modern civilization is based on complex networks of private and
>>> public organizations. It requires trained technicians and experts to run.
>>>
>>> It's been increasingly difficult to sell "mad scientists" and "genius
>>> inventors" to the readers since at least WWI and definitely since the
>>> Manhattan Project. It's no accident that Doc Smith's first series followed
>>> genius inventors/engineers who were effectively free agents while his
>>> second series (started 20 years later) followed government agents.
>>>
>>> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
>>> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
>>> agencies.
>
>
>The non-big "loner science" recently encountered by me include energy
>extraction inventors and geologists. Both are very cagey about their
>Intellectual Property. A geologist stupid enough to shoot off his mouth
>about a decades-long quest may find his claim appropriated as soon as
>adequate agencies are arrayed against him by those with political pull.
>
>
>Don't bet your life on a 911 call.
>
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3jKnzqCn-E>
><https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/new-dashcam-video-shows-unruly-crowd-blocking-spd-patrol-car-after-street-race-erupts-into-shooting/CRFWBY2DFFCIRNC5EHCLDAZETM/>

The KING TV article I read had more of an explanation: other things
were going on, forcing the police to spread out.

The real lesson here is that illegal street racing is now /very/
popular among enough people to create crowds that aren't cowed by the
police even one little bit. Even when shots ring out.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 11:17:23 AM UTC-4, Don wrote:
> A twofer!
>
> Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> > Ahasuerus wrote:
> >
> >> Character agency is always an issue in stories/novels set in the modern
> >> world. Modern civilization is based on complex networks of private and
> >> public organizations. It requires trained technicians and experts to run.
> >>
> >> It's been increasingly difficult to sell "mad scientists" and "genius
> >> inventors" to the readers since at least WWI and definitely since the
> >> Manhattan Project. It's no accident that Doc Smith's first series followed
> >> genius inventors/engineers who were effectively free agents while his
> >> second series (started 20 years later) followed government agents.
> >>
> >> When encountering an unexpected event in 2023, the standard reaction
> >> is almost always to call 911, which will then route the call to appropriate
> >> agencies.
> The non-big "loner science" recently encountered by me include energy
> extraction inventors and geologists. Both are very cagey about their
> Intellectual Property. A geologist stupid enough to shoot off his mouth
> about a decades-long quest may find his claim appropriated as soon as
> adequate agencies are arrayed against him by those with political pull.

[snip]

The profit motive is certainly one way to give your characters agency. It's
what the protagonists of Steven Gould's parallel world novel _Wildside_
(1996) did and it worked reasonably well for then. At least for a while.

I suppose certain subgenres of speculative fiction have an inherently
easier time with character agency compared to other subgenres.

On the one hand, "War of the worlds" scenarios greatly limit what individuals
can do on their own unless you go the "resistance fighters hiding in the
mountains" route.

OTOH, "Portal to another world" and "Portal to a distant past" scenarios
give you much more flexibility. Your characters can plausibly decide that
it's a great opportunity to get rich and then you can create any number
of plot twists as things go wrong: saber-tooth tigers, unknown
microorganisms, other sapients, discovery by your government or by other
organizations, etc.