Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny

Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
--
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I vaguely remember having enjoyed Nine Princes in Amber when I read it.

John Savard

James Nicoll wrote:
> Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
>
> Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere

My brother got us hyped on this. I don't remember if it was seeing the fifth novel being serialized in GALAXY, or finding the first novel in the library. I do remember he had to learn interlibrary loan to get two of the ones in between, and we passed them around in the week we had them.

I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them. Somewhere about then Order and Chaos were introduced to the story. I had heard about D&D where Order and Chaos seemed to be used to avoid the terms Good and Evil. That seemed to be the case here, where our characters, with no plan and pulling in all different directions are supposed to represent Order while the ranks of Chaos shamble in lockstep to their one leader. (And our characters of order are personally doing things that in the old days would have been called evil.)

I know my brother's enthusiasm lasted to buying all the second chronicles. I do believe he also lost interest before the end.

--
-Jack

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 9:55:24 AM UTC-4, Jack Bohn wrote:
[snip]
> I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_.
[snip]

If memory serves, I started losing interest half way through the second
volume, i.e. _The Guns of Avalon_, because Zelazny's descriptions of
inter-universal travel began feeling stale. However, once I got past that
point I enjoyed the rest of the first pentalogy. It wasn't in the same league
as _Lord of Light_, but then few things are.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 11:55:24 PM UTC+10, Jack Bohn wrote:
> James Nicoll wrote:
> > Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
> >
> > Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
> My brother got us hyped on this. I don't remember if it was seeing the fifth novel being serialized in GALAXY, or finding the first novel in the library. I do remember he had to learn interlibrary loan to get two of the ones in between, and we passed them around in the week we had them.
>
> I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them. Somewhere about then Order and Chaos were introduced to the story. I had heard about D&D where Order and Chaos seemed to be used to avoid the terms Good and Evil. That seemed to be the case here, where our characters, with no plan and pulling in all different directions are supposed to represent Order while the ranks of Chaos shamble in lockstep to their one leader. (And our characters of order are personally doing things that in the old days would have been called evil.)
>

I don't think Order and Chaos in Amber were meant to be shorthand for good and evil

> I know my brother's enthusiasm lasted to buying all the second chronicles.. I do believe he also lost interest before the end.

On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 14:55:24 UTC+1, Jack Bohn wrote:
> James Nicoll wrote:
> > Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
> >
> > Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
> >
> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
>
> I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them.

I suppose that Rebma being "Amber" spelled backwards
is a bit Harry Potter.

And actually, walking the Pattern line is awfully like
a child's game. More awful if you get it wrong and
you drop dead or explode, of course. And its specific
challenges are described with the serious attention
given to specific features of famous race tracks and
golf courses. I suppose that if taking a walk can lead
to you exploding, then you do pay attention to the
specifics.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 06:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:

>James Nicoll wrote:
>> Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
>>
>> Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
>>
>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
>
>My brother got us hyped on this. I don't remember if it was seeing the fifth novel being serialized in GALAXY, or finding the first novel in the library. I do remember he had to learn interlibrary loan to get two of the ones in between, and we passed them around in the week we had them.
>
>I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them. Somewhere about then Order and Chaos were introduced to the story. I had heard about D&D where Order and Chaos seemed to be used to avoid the terms Good and Evil. That seemed to be the case here, where our characters, with no plan and pulling in all different directions are supposed to represent Order while the ranks of Chaos shamble in lockstep to their one leader. (And our characters of order are personally doing things that in the old days would have been
>called evil.)
>
>I know my brother's enthusiasm lasted to buying all the second chronicles. I do believe he also lost interest before the end.

AFAIK, the second chronicles were never actually finished. Very
disappointing.

/Prince of Chaos/ was the last one. But it never seemed to me to have
actually concluded the story.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:51:25 PM UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 06:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >James Nicoll wrote:
> >> Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
> >>
> >> Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
> >>
> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
> >
> >My brother got us hyped on this. I don't remember if it was seeing the fifth novel being serialized in GALAXY, or finding the first novel in the library. I do remember he had to learn interlibrary loan to get two of the ones in between, and we passed them around in the week we had them.
> >
> >I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them. Somewhere about then Order and Chaos were introduced to the story. I had heard about D&D where Order and Chaos seemed to be used to avoid the terms Good and Evil. That seemed to be the case here, where our characters, with no plan and pulling in all different directions are supposed to represent Order while the ranks of Chaos shamble in lockstep to their one leader. (And our characters of order are personally doing things that in the old days would have been
> >called evil.)
> >
> >I know my brother's enthusiasm lasted to buying all the second chronicles. I do believe he also lost interest before the end.
> AFAIK, the second chronicles were never actually finished. Very
> disappointing.
>
> /Prince of Chaos/ was the last one. But it never seemed to me to have
> actually concluded the story.
> --
> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
> development was the disintegration, under Christian
> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
> of family right."
On balance, I enjoyed the second Chronicles more than the first. I was never convinced by the bluffing at the start of the first Chronicles,, and until about the last book I thought the second Chronicles had a more followable plot. I never throught of it as more than fantasy, with a nod to ?Plato?'s theory of forms, so I wasn't bothered by the implausibility if you try and view the shadows as parallel worlds. I do agree that the second Chronicles doesn't have a very satisfactory ending; from memory, we are left with Merlin poised for the utlimate top job in the Courts of Chaos, but very possibly deranged by the magical artifact that is otherwise protecting him, about which we might hope that a further book would tell us more.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 14:55:24 UTC+1, Jack Bohn wrote:
>> James Nicoll wrote:
>> > Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
>> >
>> > Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
>> >
>> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
>>
>> I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them.
>
>I suppose that Rebma being "Amber" spelled backwards
>is a bit Harry Potter.

Or a bit Stephen King.

>And actually, walking the Pattern line is awfully like
>a child's game. More awful if you get it wrong and
>you drop dead or explode, of course. And its specific
>challenges are described with the serious attention
>given to specific features of famous race tracks and
>golf courses. I suppose that if taking a walk can lead
>to you exploding, then you do pay attention to the
>specifics.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 09:20:20 -0700 (PDT), Andrew McDowell
<mcdowell_ag@sky.com> wrote:

>On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:51:25?PM UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 06:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
>> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >James Nicoll wrote:
>> >> Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
>> >>
>> >> Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
>> >>
>> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
>> >
>> >My brother got us hyped on this. I don't remember if it was seeing the fifth novel being serialized in GALAXY, or finding the first novel in the library. I do remember he had to learn interlibrary loan to get two of the ones in between, and we passed them around in the week we had them.
>> >
>> >I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them. Somewhere about then Order and Chaos were introduced to the story. I had heard about D&D where Order and Chaos seemed to be used to avoid the terms Good and Evil. That seemed to be the case here, where our characters, with no plan and pulling in all different directions are supposed to represent Order while the ranks of Chaos shamble in lockstep to their one leader. (And our characters of order are personally doing things that in the old days would have been
>> >called evil.)
>> >
>> >I know my brother's enthusiasm lasted to buying all the second chronicles. I do believe he also lost interest before the end.
>> AFAIK, the second chronicles were never actually finished. Very
>> disappointing.
>>
>> /Prince of Chaos/ was the last one. But it never seemed to me to have
>> actually concluded the story.
>> --
>> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
>> development was the disintegration, under Christian
>> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
>> of family right."
>On balance, I enjoyed the second Chronicles more than the first. I was never convinced by the bluffing at the start of the first Chronicles,, and until about the last book I thought the second Chronicles had a more followable plot. I never throught of it as more than fantasy, with a nod to ?Plato?'s theory of forms, so I wasn't bothered by the implausibility if you try and view the shadows as parallel worlds. I do agree that the second Chronicles doesn't have a very satisfactory ending; from memory, we are left with Merlin poised for the utlimate top job in the Courts of Chaos, but very possibly deranged by the magical artifact that is otherwise protecting him, about which we might hope that a further book would tell us more.

Exactly.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On Tuesday, 13 June 2023 at 17:27:56 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 09:20:20 -0700 (PDT), Andrew McDowell
> <mcdow...@sky.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:51:25?PM UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
> >> On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 06:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
> >> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >James Nicoll wrote:
> >> >> Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
> >> >>
> >> >> Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
> >> >>
> >> >> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
> >> >
> >> >My brother got us hyped on this. I don't remember if it was seeing the fifth novel being serialized in GALAXY, or finding the first novel in the library. I do remember he had to learn interlibrary loan to get two of the ones in between, and we passed them around in the week we had them.
> >> >
> >> >I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them. Somewhere about then Order and Chaos were introduced to the story. I had heard about D&D where Order and Chaos seemed to be used to avoid the terms Good and Evil. That seemed to be the case here, where our characters, with no plan and pulling in all different directions are supposed to represent Order while the ranks of Chaos shamble in lockstep to their one leader. (And our characters of order are personally doing things that in the old days would have been
> >> >called evil.)
> >> >
> >> >I know my brother's enthusiasm lasted to buying all the second chronicles. I do believe he also lost interest before the end.
> >> AFAIK, the second chronicles were never actually finished. Very
> >> disappointing.
> >>
> >> /Prince of Chaos/ was the last one. But it never seemed to me to have
> >> actually concluded the story.
> >> --
> >> "In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
> >> development was the disintegration, under Christian
> >> influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
> >> of family right."
> >On balance, I enjoyed the second Chronicles more than the first. I was never convinced by the bluffing at the start of the first Chronicles,, and until about the last book I thought the second Chronicles had a more followable plot. I never throught of it as more than fantasy, with a nod to ?Plato?'s theory of forms, so I wasn't bothered by the implausibility if you try and view the shadows as parallel worlds. I do agree that the second Chronicles doesn't have a very satisfactory ending; from memory, we are left with Merlin poised for the utlimate top job in the Courts of Chaos, but very possibly deranged by the magical artifact that is otherwise protecting him, about which we might hope that a further book would tell us more.
> Exactly.

I think the finish isn't completely satisfactory in execution,
and in particular, the story doesn't fully address the matter
of Merlin and the magical artifact. I do appreciate that
a set of magic rings is dismissed by one character as if by
someone who just got tired of Tolkien, and we are told
that Merlin's artifact is not the most seriously cursed one...
which he also collects, carefully. I don't remember if Frakir
is accounted for. Merlin is free of the intended curse that
we know about, and Ghostwheel is at his service.
He'll be okay.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 11:24:38 AM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 14:55:24 UTC+1, Jack Bohn wrote:
> > James Nicoll wrote:
> > > Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
> > >
> > > Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
> > >
> > > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere
> >
> > I think my interest peaked at _The Guns of Avalon_. Maybe at the title (_The Guns of Navarone_ movie and book were still getting play then), Zelazny had "The Incompleate Enchanter" stories as a guide to that idea, although I did not yet. But somehow Rebma was less than impressive for being the first shadow, and it was hard to remember to keep my mind turned so as to see that their trumps looked like our playing cards because our galaxy formed so that a portion of our planet could, if only for a brief time, reflect them.
> I suppose that Rebma being "Amber" spelled backwards
> is a bit Harry Potter.
>

Neat trick, as Potter came much later.

My referent when I read the books would have been
the spell-casting of Zatara and his daughter Zatanna
from the DC Comics. That company also reprinted
a 40s CAPTAIN MARVEL story where the Big Red
Cheese fought a mirror universe verson of himself:
Niatpac Levram!

http://marvelfamily.com/WhosWho/whoswho.aspx?castID=1474

> And actually, walking the Pattern line is awfully like
> a child's game. More awful if you get it wrong and
> you drop dead or explode, of course. And its specific
> challenges are described with the serious attention
> given to specific features of famous race tracks and
> golf courses. I suppose that if taking a walk can lead
> to you exploding, then you do pay attention to the
> specifics.

Gardner Fox wrote the early Zatanna stories, and Otto
Binder came up with mirror-Cap. Both were also SF authors.

--
Kevin R

On 2023-06-11 6:53 a.m., James Nicoll wrote:
> Nine Princes in Amber (Chronicles of Amber, volume 1) by Roger Zelazny
>
> Can an amnesiac bluff his way to a throne?
>
> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/so-sincere

I didn't think the prequel was any more terrible than the Merlin books.

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 8:49:04 PM UTC-6, David Johnston wrote:

> I didn't think the prequel was any more terrible than the Merlin books.

I know that I didn't think the Star Wars Christmas Special was all that bad,
so perhaps I could risk subjecting myself to it...

John Savard