Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems

Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
enforced!

https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On 2023-09-26, James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:

> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> enforced!

I seem to remember Bujold occasionally bringing this up in the
Vorkosigan series, where people flirted with the danger of treason
by virtue of having what could be considered a private army, such
treason entailing the mandatory sentence of death by public starvation.
I think Aral once reminisced about the unpleasant sight of this
being put into practice.

"Flexible" enforcement, of course, is awkwardly close to arbitrary
enforcement.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>
> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> enforced!
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/

Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
"between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
Age of Science Fiction being 14?

--
Michael F. Stemper
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.

In article <uevcsb$2le1o$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>>
>> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
>> enforced!
>>
>>
>https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
>
>Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
>"between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
>Age of Science Fiction being 14?
>
There have been weird popups today, which I have mentioned to my
editor. Since I am not a web person, I don't know their significance.
My guess would be either a fiendish Masonic plot or an upgrade gone
wrong.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On 9/26/2023 9:35 AM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> On 2023-09-26, James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
>> enforced!
>
> I seem to remember Bujold occasionally bringing this up in the
> Vorkosigan series, where people flirted with the danger of treason
> by virtue of having what could be considered a private army, such
> treason entailing the mandatory sentence of death by public starvation.
> I think Aral once reminisced about the unpleasant sight of this
> being put into practice.
>
> "Flexible" enforcement, of course, is awkwardly close to arbitrary
> enforcement.

A death during Dualing was a death sentence by exposure in Barrayar.
Aral the Regent had to sentence a young man to death by exposure when
the young man accidentally killed his friend when they were playing with
swords. His family, a fellow Count, was extremely unhappy.

Lynn

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:11:52 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>
> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> enforced!
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
>

Two that quickly come to my mind are the Braxin/Braxana culture in
Friedman's In Conquest Born, and the Dol'jhar in Smith&Trowbridge's
Exordium series.

Tony

In article <ba2d9970-bf3d-4a5f-8194-10c4d9c75ca2n@googlegroups.com>,
Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:11:52 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>>
>> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
>> enforced!
>>
>>
>https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
>>
>
>Two that quickly come to my mind are the Braxin/Braxana culture in
>Friedman's In Conquest Born, and the Dol'jhar in Smith&Trowbridge's
>Exordium series.
>
>Tony
>

Vance's _Emphyrio_ for me.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 6:02:12 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <ba2d9970-bf3d-4a5f...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tony Nance <tonyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:11:52 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
> >>
> >> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> >> enforced!
> >>
> >>
> >https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
> >>
> >
> >Two that quickly come to my mind are the Braxin/Braxana culture in
> >Friedman's In Conquest Born, and the Dol'jhar in Smith&Trowbridge's
> >Exordium series.
> >
> >Tony
> >
>
> Vance's _Emphyrio_ for me.
>

Oh yeah - good call.

On 2023-09-26, James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <uevcsb$2le1o$1@dont-email.me>,
> Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>>>
>>> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
>>> enforced!
>>>
>>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
>>
>>Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
>>"between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
>>Age of Science Fiction being 14?
>>
> There have been weird popups today, which I have mentioned to my
> editor. Since I am not a web person, I don't know their significance.
> My guess would be either a fiendish Masonic plot or an upgrade gone
> wrong.

Hopefully one of those two. But it looks like an information gathering
effort of value to Tor. I will abandon Tor.com and your columns rather than
give an answer to questions like that.

--
Chris

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 3:53:53 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
> > Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
> >
> > Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> > enforced!
> >
> > https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
> Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
> "between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
> Age of Science Fiction being 14?

Hovering your cursor over the popup message reveals that it's an
"Age Gate". Perhaps if you answer "yes", the gate will send you to
a world with unicorns and dragons?

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:11:52 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>
> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> enforced!
Passion Play by Sean Stewart fits this category

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:11:52 AM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>
> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> enforced!
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
> --
> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

Many of the examples are not just draconian, but examples of _stupid_ laws rigorously enforced, or else reasonable laws _stupidly_ enforced. Which does sometimes happen in real life, of course.

The Romans had a saying, 'the hard law is still the law', or something close to that in translation, and in some cases it worked out like that. There always needs to be an authority that can potentially grant exceptions, though of course that authority in turn needs to apply exceptions reasonably.

On 27/09/2023 00:11, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>
> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> enforced!
>
> https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/

Hmm, I don't know if I'd call it inflexible, but there are bits of Frank
Herbert's Gowachin Legal System that are, intriguing...

Like the bit where if the prosecutor in a capital case fails to obtain a
conviction they are executed in place of the accused. :-)

Cheers,
Gary B-)

On 26/09/2023 19.13, Ahasuerus wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 3:53:53 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>>>
>>> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
>>> enforced!
>>>
>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
>> Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
>> "between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
>> Age of Science Fiction being 14?
>
> Hovering your cursor over the popup message reveals that it's an
> "Age Gate". Perhaps if you answer "yes", the gate will send you to
> a world with unicorns and dragons?

Nope. I deleted all of my cookies and tried again in a new tab. This time
I said that I was between 13 and 15, and got what appeared to be the
same content as before.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 4:11:54 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <uevcsb$2le1o$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
> >>
> >> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> >> enforced!
> >>
> >>
> >https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
> >
> >Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
> >"between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
> >Age of Science Fiction being 14?
> >
> There have been weird popups today, which I have mentioned to my
> editor. Since I am not a web person, I don't know their significance.
> My guess would be either a fiendish Masonic plot or an upgrade gone
> wrong.

I promise you, we didn't do it.

pt

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 9:13:56 AM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 26/09/2023 19.13, Ahasuerus wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 3:53:53 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> >> On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
> >>>
> >>> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
> >>> enforced!
> >>>
> >>> https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
> >> Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
> >> "between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
> >> Age of Science Fiction being 14?
> >
> > Hovering your cursor over the popup message reveals that it's an
> > "Age Gate". Perhaps if you answer "yes", the gate will send you to
> > a world with unicorns and dragons?
> Nope. I deleted all of my cookies and tried again in a new tab. This time
> I said that I was between 13 and 15, and got what appeared to be the
> same content as before.

Well, it was worth a shot...

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 08:13:50 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
<michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 26/09/2023 19.13, Ahasuerus wrote:
>> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 3:53:53?PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>> On 26/09/2023 09.11, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Five SFF Works Featuring Draconian Laws and Legal Systems
>>>>
>>>> Embrace the plot potential of plot potential rigorous laws inflexibly
>>>> enforced!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tor.com/2023/09/26/five-sff-works-featuring-draconian-laws-and-legal-systems/
>>> Just out of curiosity, why did the page want to know if I was
>>> "between 13-15 years old?" Is that something to do with the Golden
>>> Age of Science Fiction being 14?
>>
>> Hovering your cursor over the popup message reveals that it's an
>> "Age Gate". Perhaps if you answer "yes", the gate will send you to
>> a world with unicorns and dragons?
>
>Nope. I deleted all of my cookies and tried again in a new tab. This time
>I said that I was between 13 and 15, and got what appeared to be the
>same content as before.

Let us know if you start getting emails aimed at 13-15 year olds.

And if they are, shall we say, dubious emails, let your law
enforcement know as well.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 7:13:56 AM UTC-6, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

> Nope. I deleted all of my cookies and tried again in a new tab. This time
> I said that I was between 13 and 15, and got what appeared to be the
> same content as before.

A new _tab_?

Surely you want, after deleting the cookies, to close the browser completely,
and then open it again?

John Savard

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 11:32:27 PM UTC-6, Johnny1A wrote:

> Many of the examples are not just draconian, but examples of _stupid_ laws rigorously enforced, or else reasonable laws _stupidly_ enforced.

Well, that is precisely what makes them so useful as plot devices.
So I'm unclear about what you were expecting.

John Savard

On 27/09/2023 13.48, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 7:13:56 AM UTC-6, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>
>> Nope. I deleted all of my cookies and tried again in a new tab. This time
>> I said that I was between 13 and 15, and got what appeared to be the
>> same content as before.
>
> A new _tab_?
>
> Surely you want, after deleting the cookies, to close the browser completely,
> and then open it again?

If my experiment was not conducted with appropriate rigor, others may
carry on in my place. As the saying goes "more research is needed."

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Further_research_is_needed>

--
Michael F. Stemper
I refuse to believe that a corporation is a person until Texas executes one.