The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley

A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>
>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>
>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing

The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

In article <v91tjipc5k98car43ee98q7d51450gai9i@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>>
>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>>
>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
>
>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.

Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
or Fred Pohl.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 9:38:17 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>
> A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.

I'm not sure which Sheckley the following is from. Mid 60's.

A man is interviewing a woman in a large house:

"Do you consider yourself to be upper class"

"Oh no, we got rid of all that class nonsense long ago. We're all middle class now"

"Are there no distinctions?"

"Well, I suppose you could say that we have an upper middle class, a middle middle class
and a lower middle class"

"And to which category do you belong?"

"Oh, upper middle class, I suppose".

Apologies to Sheckely, whose writing of the scene was much funnier.

But when I think of Sheckley that scene always comes to mind.

Well, that and "AAA Ace Planetary Exterminators".

William Hyde

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43ee98q7d51450gai9i@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>>>
>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>>>
>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
>>
>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
>
>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
>or Fred Pohl.

Pity.

I found them surprisingly convenient.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

In article <ihlvjih2b4imsfbn3vfmkc4au8ukrecp0r@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43ee98q7d51450gai9i@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>>>>
>>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>>>>
>>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
>>>
>>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
>>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
>>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
>>
>>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
>>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
>>or Fred Pohl.
>
>Pity.
>
>I found them surprisingly convenient.

As far as I can tell, nobody aside from Ace ever made doubles, tete-beche
or not, work. I wonder what Ace's secret was?

Did they vanish about the time SFWA started auditing Ace? I could see
that doubles could make accounting tricks harder: if one story in
a double outsells the other book in the same double, that's a red
flag.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 12:46:21 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <ihlvjih2b4imsfbn3...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> >Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43...@4ax.com>,
> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> >>>Nicoll) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
> >>>>
> >>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
> >>>>
> >>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
> >>>
> >>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
> >>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
> >>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
> >>
> >>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
> >>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
> >>or Fred Pohl.
> >
> >Pity.
> >
> >I found them surprisingly convenient.
>
> As far as I can tell, nobody aside from Ace ever made doubles, tete-beche
> or not, work. I wonder what Ace's secret was?
>
> Did they vanish about the time SFWA started auditing Ace? I could see
> that doubles could make accounting tricks harder: if one story in
> a double outsells the other book in the same double, that's a red
> flag.
>

Tor did doubles for a good while - some pretty good stuff, too:
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Double_Novels

Tony

On 2023-10-30, Tony Nance <tonynance17@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 12:46:21 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <ihlvjih2b4imsfbn3...@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>> >Nicoll) wrote:
>> >
>> >>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43...@4ax.com>,
>> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>> >>>Nicoll) wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>> >>>>
>> >>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
>> >>>
>> >>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
>> >>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
>> >>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
>> >>
>> >>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
>> >>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
>> >>or Fred Pohl.
>> >
>> >Pity.
>> >
>> >I found them surprisingly convenient.
>>
>> As far as I can tell, nobody aside from Ace ever made doubles, tete-beche
>> or not, work. I wonder what Ace's secret was?
>>
>> Did they vanish about the time SFWA started auditing Ace? I could see
>> that doubles could make accounting tricks harder: if one story in
>> a double outsells the other book in the same double, that's a red
>> flag.
>>
>
> Tor did doubles for a good while - some pretty good stuff, too:
> https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?3
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Double_Novels

The Tor novellas were good, but they only published them for 3
years so I'm not sure they found it profitable. Perhaps they did so
many of them (36) so close together that they over-saturated the market
and it would have worked if more spread out. I know I only paid
attention to the first few.

Belmont did some SF doubles in the 60's, early 70's. I recently
mentioned the first one they did which they actually titled
_A Pair from Space_, rather than give the two novel titles. They did
others but my guess is they failed due to lack of SF connections and
good novels. They included Harlan Ellison's _Doomsman_ at least twice
(with different partners) that I have. Ellison famously offered to buy the
book from anybody who had a copy, rip out his half, and return the
rest to the original owner - he did not have a high opinion of his own
work!

Dell had a very short lived (5) "Binary Star" double series around 1980.
If the last one they did wasn't profitable, the series had no hope.
The last one was truly excellent - the first novella publication of
_True Names_ by Vernor Vinge and _Nightflyers_ by G.R.R. Martin.

Overall, my guess is that readers are much more novel oriented than
novella, and Ace succeeded for so long because novels were all
actually that short back then. Once novels got long enough so you
could no longer package two together, readers were no longer willing
to read the "too short" novels.
--
Chris

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 12:46:21 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <ihlvjih2b4imsfbn3...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> >Nicoll) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43...@4ax.com>,
> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> >>>Nicoll) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
> >>>>
> >>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
> >>>>
> >>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
> >>>
> >>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
> >>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
> >>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
> >>
> >>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
> >>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
> >>or Fred Pohl.
> >
> >Pity.
> >
> >I found them surprisingly convenient.
> As far as I can tell, nobody aside from Ace ever made doubles, tete-beche
> or not, work. I wonder what Ace's secret was? [snip]

Armchair Fiction (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?35487)
published a fair number of doubles in the 2010s and early 2020s, e.g.
https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?443 , but theirs is a
specialized segment of the market (reprints.)

In article <81f843ae-aa72-4e6a-8fc4-fe6d98614b85n@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 12:46:21 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <ihlvjih2b4imsfbn3...@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>> >Nicoll) wrote:
>> >
>> >>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43...@4ax.com>,
>> >>Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>> >>>Nicoll) wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>> >>>>
>> >>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
>> >>>
>> >>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
>> >>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
>> >>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
>> >>
>> >>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
>> >>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
>> >>or Fred Pohl.
>> >
>> >Pity.
>> >
>> >I found them surprisingly convenient.
>> As far as I can tell, nobody aside from Ace ever made doubles, tete-beche
>> or not, work. I wonder what Ace's secret was? [snip]
>
>Armchair Fiction (https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/publisher.cgi?35487)
>published a fair number of doubles in the 2010s and early 2020s, e.g.
>https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pubseries.cgi?443 , but theirs is a
>specialized segment of the market (reprints.)

The latest iteration of "Doc Savage" (and "Shadow") reprints were
double novels (in the DS case, sometimes as per Dent's manuscripts
for the first time). The early Ace "Perry Rhodan" books were doubles,
albeit under one portmanteu title.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:46:16 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <ihlvjih2b4imsfbn3vfmkc4au8ukrecp0r@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43ee98q7d51450gai9i@4ax.com>,
>>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>>>>>
>>>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>>>>>
>>>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
>>>>
>>>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
>>>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
>>>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
>>>
>>>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
>>>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
>>>or Fred Pohl.
>>
>>Pity.
>>
>>I found them surprisingly convenient.
>
>As far as I can tell, nobody aside from Ace ever made doubles, tete-beche
>or not, work. I wonder what Ace's secret was?

Well, like a lot of SF books back then, each novel in the pair were
rather short and the two of them looked more impressive on the shelf
than either by itself would have.

>Did they vanish about the time SFWA started auditing Ace? I could see
>that doubles could make accounting tricks harder: if one story in
>a double outsells the other book in the same double, that's a red
>flag.

It would be, but did that happen? Was there some doubt as to Ace's
royalties statements?
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

In article <ok92kituhhe413j3k5g1r3603getbqjfcq@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:46:16 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <ihlvjih2b4imsfbn3vfmkc4au8ukrecp0r@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 16:24:28 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <v91tjipc5k98car43ee98q7d51450gai9i@4ax.com>,
>>>>Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:38:12 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>>>>>Nicoll) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>The Status Civilization and Notions: Unlimited by Robert Sheckley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A satirical omnibus from the late Robert Sheckley.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/laughing
>>>>>
>>>>>The double novels I remember had to be flipped over after you finished
>>>>>one of them to read the other. They literally were two novels in one
>>>>>book, each serving as upside-down backmatter to the other.
>>>>
>>>>Ace ditched the tete-beche format in 1973. Not sure which editor made
>>>>that call. Wollheim and Carr left in 1971, so maybe it was Pat LoBrutto
>>>>or Fred Pohl.
>>>
>>>Pity.
>>>
>>>I found them surprisingly convenient.
>>
>>As far as I can tell, nobody aside from Ace ever made doubles, tete-beche
>>or not, work. I wonder what Ace's secret was?
>
>Well, like a lot of SF books back then, each novel in the pair were
>rather short and the two of them looked more impressive on the shelf
>than either by itself would have.
>
>>Did they vanish about the time SFWA started auditing Ace? I could see
>>that doubles could make accounting tricks harder: if one story in
>>a double outsells the other book in the same double, that's a red
>>flag.
>
>It would be, but did that happen? Was there some doubt as to Ace's
>royalties statements?

Oh, yes. There are stories about the uncomfortable conversations
Jim Baen had in 1977 after taking over as head of Ace's SF line.
Authors with work published by Ace were frustrated by slow pay
and unreliable accounting and new authors were reluctant to
sell to Ace because authors gossip. This seems to have caught
Baen by surprise.

On the plus side, Galaxy's publisher was just as tight with money
as Ace so at least Baen came into the job with applicable skills.
It's my impression that authors viewed Ace much more favourably
by 1980, when Baen left for Tor.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll