On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 07:47:35 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>Regardless of nigglined edge cases, the point remains. Russia has
>been invaded many times in history, while the US mainland has not.
>
Actually for me one of my funniest experiences of my 11 years in
Toastmasters was the highly jingoistic pro-British speech I made
concerning the War of 1812. It was a private joke since while I do
have ancestors who fought in that war all of them fought in the New
York state militia which were the units most involved in the invasion
of today's southern Ontario. (I told all this to my friends over
drinks after the speech) I distinctly remember the line "You know the
'rockets' red glare? the bombs bursting in air? Well those were OUR
rockets and OUR bombs - but we don't advertise that much to our
American friends these days!"

While I have ancestors (on my mother;s side) who served in the Royal
Navy (most as sailors but one as a ship commander in WW1 - to be sure
it was a minesweeper which was one of the smaller of 'His Majesty's
ships' but WAS a ship command) none were in North America 1812-15.

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 19:58:28 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>I really doubt that Trump actually takes orders from Moscow, but
>he does seem to admire Putin, and its possible that Putin has
>kompromat on him, which bends his actions even if not given
>explicit instructions.
>
Assuming "kompromat" means what I think it does, surely a better
response would be that of the Canadian diplomat who when confronted
with surreptitiously taken photos of himself with a Russian "lady" and
asked to spy for the KGB was said to have asked for a dozen copies of
each picture as "back in Ottawa they think I'm dull and uninterested
in women but these definitely prove otherwise!"

While that part of the story is undoubtedly apocryphal the gent in
question did serve the Canadian foreign service till retirement.

In article <mcko0jlcbol6djm4mtvdgtsqldb3rpkea7@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>I distinctly remember the line "You know the
>'rockets' red glare? the bombs bursting in air? Well those were OUR
>rockets and OUR bombs - but we don't advertise that much to our
>American friends these days!"

[Hal Heydt]
Congreve rockets and mortar rounds with the fuse cut too short,
repsectively.

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
> Confiscating the major weapons is the real problem. Picking up nuclear
> weapons and carrying them off would cause all kinds of international and
> logistical issues, and someone might decide to launch them rather than
> give them up. They're probably already poorly maintained and unreliable,
> but that could just mean that instead of blowing up their intended
> target, they'll blow up somebody else.

In all the history of the Thing, only Bilbo -- I mean, Ukraine -- has
voluntarily given it up, and that took all our help...

--
Jeff

Jeff Urs <jeff.urs@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>> Confiscating the major weapons is the real problem. Picking up
>> nuclear weapons and carrying them off would cause all kinds of
>> international and logistical issues, and someone might decide to
>> launch them rather than give them up. They're probably already
>> poorly maintained and unreliable, but that could just mean that
>> instead of blowing up their intended target, they'll blow up
>> somebody else.

> In all the history of the Thing, only Bilbo -- I mean, Ukraine --
> has voluntarily given it up, and that took all our help...

And I'll bet they regret giving them up. What a great lesson for
other nuclear powers who are being urged to give them up.

Also, if I was Bilbo I would have kept the One Ring. But then I've
always been a packrat. And a ring takes up much less space than a
bunch of nuclear weapons and their launchers.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 00:51:47 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
<kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

>Jeff Urs <jeff.urs@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>>> Confiscating the major weapons is the real problem. Picking up
>>> nuclear weapons and carrying them off would cause all kinds of
>>> international and logistical issues, and someone might decide to
>>> launch them rather than give them up. They're probably already
>>> poorly maintained and unreliable, but that could just mean that
>>> instead of blowing up their intended target, they'll blow up
>>> somebody else.
>
>> In all the history of the Thing, only Bilbo -- I mean, Ukraine --
>> has voluntarily given it up, and that took all our help...
>
>And I'll bet they regret giving them up. What a great lesson for
>other nuclear powers who are being urged to give them up.
>
>Also, if I was Bilbo I would have kept the One Ring. But then I've
>always been a packrat. And a ring takes up much less space than a
>bunch of nuclear weapons and their launchers.

Bilbo, left to himself, would have kept the One Ring. Or died trying.

It took Gandalf partially unmasking himself and cowing Bilbo to get
Bilbo to give it up.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On Thu, 4 Apr 2024, Paul S Person wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 00:51:47 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
> <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Urs <jeff.urs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>>>> Confiscating the major weapons is the real problem. Picking up
>>>> nuclear weapons and carrying them off would cause all kinds of
>>>> international and logistical issues, and someone might decide to
>>>> launch them rather than give them up. They're probably already
>>>> poorly maintained and unreliable, but that could just mean that
>>>> instead of blowing up their intended target, they'll blow up
>>>> somebody else.
>>
>>> In all the history of the Thing, only Bilbo -- I mean, Ukraine --
>>> has voluntarily given it up, and that took all our help...
>>
>> And I'll bet they regret giving them up. What a great lesson for
>> other nuclear powers who are being urged to give them up.
>>
>> Also, if I was Bilbo I would have kept the One Ring. But then I've
>> always been a packrat. And a ring takes up much less space than a
>> bunch of nuclear weapons and their launchers.
>
> Bilbo, left to himself, would have kept the One Ring. Or died trying.
>
> It took Gandalf partially unmasking himself and cowing Bilbo to get
> Bilbo to give it up.
>

Sounds like a great "alternative history" book! Bilbo the Slayer! ;)

On 4/2/24 13:40, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <mcko0jlcbol6djm4mtvdgtsqldb3rpkea7@4ax.com>,
> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>> I distinctly remember the line "You know the
>> 'rockets' red glare? the bombs bursting in air? Well those were OUR
>> rockets and OUR bombs - but we don't advertise that much to our
>> American friends these days!"
>
> [Hal Heydt]
> Congreve rockets and mortar rounds with the fuse cut too short,
> repsectively.

Would the fuses have been too short if they were trying for air bursts
to kill the guys on the walls?

--
----------------
Dave Scruggs
Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)

In article <v06629$12h02$2@dont-email.me>, BCFD 36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> wrote:
>On 4/2/24 13:40, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <mcko0jlcbol6djm4mtvdgtsqldb3rpkea7@4ax.com>,
>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>> I distinctly remember the line "You know the
>>> 'rockets' red glare? the bombs bursting in air? Well those were OUR
>>> rockets and OUR bombs - but we don't advertise that much to our
>>> American friends these days!"
>>
>> [Hal Heydt]
>> Congreve rockets and mortar rounds with the fuse cut too short,
>> repsectively.
>
>Would the fuses have been too short if they were trying for air bursts
>to kill the guys on the walls?

[Hal Heydt]
Probably. They were--generally speaking--trying for as close to
ground contact detonation as possible. I think the air bursts
they got were way short of trying for shrapnel kills on the
walls.

The mortars in question were "double firing" type. First the
gunner lit the fuse of the shell, then he light the propellant
charge. It was later that it was determined that the gases from
burning propellant would go around the shell sufficiently to
light the shell fuse when the mortar was fired. With a double
firing design, you *really* didn't want to get distracted after
light the shell fuse.