Twenty years, two trillion (!) dollars, and 2500 American lives, for
what? To catch bin Laden? He was caught more than a decade ago, in a
different country. To establish a pro-western government? Before US
troops could even finished pulling out, the Taliban was back in power,
as if the past 20 years had never happened.

As horrible as the Taliban is, at least they're against "bacha bazi,"
i.e. the rape of young boys, unlike the local troops who were allied
with the US.

Speaking of catching Osama, he was found by using a public health
pretext. That was a line that should never be crossed. Even the
Nazis respected the Red Cross. By violating that line, the US has
greatly damaged the world's trust in health authorities, which has
contributed to the widespread worldwide mistrust of covid-19 vaccines.
That shortsighted decision has caused more deaths every day than bin
Laden caused in a lifetime.

The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
ncessarily one's friend.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 8:19:41 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Twenty years, two trillion (!) dollars, and 2500 American lives, for
> what? To catch bin Laden? He was caught more than a decade ago, in a
> different country. To establish a pro-western government? Before US
> troops could even finished pulling out, the Taliban was back in power,
> as if the past 20 years had never happened.
>
> As horrible as the Taliban is, at least they're against "bacha bazi,"
> i.e. the rape of young boys, unlike the local troops who were allied
> with the US.
>
> Speaking of catching Osama, he was found by using a public health
> pretext. That was a line that should never be crossed. Even the
> Nazis respected the Red Cross. By violating that line, the US has
> greatly damaged the world's trust in health authorities, which has
> contributed to the widespread worldwide mistrust of covid-19 vaccines.
> That shortsighted decision has caused more deaths every day than bin
> Laden caused in a lifetime.
>
> The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
> isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
> ncessarily one's friend.
> --

Agree with most of this, but Afghanistan is not in the "Middle East."
"Central Asia" is a better term. Now, if you want to include the Arab
countries, Iraq and Iran, "the Muslim world" is useful, but that lets
out Persian Iran, Pakistan and Bangladesh (South Asia) and the most
populous Muslim land, Indonesia.

--
Kevin R

On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 00:19:39 +0000, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> Twenty years, two trillion (!) dollars, and 2500 American lives, for

Isn't it odd, or at least intriguing, that this is transpiring
very, very close to the exact 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks?

On 8/17/21 8:19 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

> The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
> isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
> ncessarily one's friend.
>

Biden said something which was remarkably intelligent for a US
president: "I will not repeat the mistakes we've made in the past. The
mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not
in the national security interest of the United States."

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 00:19:39 +0000, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
>> Twenty years, two trillion (!) dollars, and 2500 American lives, for
>
> Isn't it odd, or at least intriguing, that this is transpiring
> very, very close to the exact 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks?

Biden pushed the deadline for US withdrawal from May 1st to no later than
September 11th back in April.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 7:20:43 AM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
> On 8/17/21 8:19 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
> > The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
> > isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
> > ncessarily one's friend.
> >
> Biden said something which was remarkably intelligent for a US
> president: "I will not repeat the mistakes we've made in the past. The
> mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not
> in the national security interest of the United States."

The whole venture was a mistake, made in white-hot anger
after 9/11. It should have been possible to take out OBL and AQ
without a full takeover of Afghanistan.

That said, this is The Great Game, and Putin and Xi are both
now maneuvering to be the Talibans' BFF. I suspect China will
win; the Taliban have bad memories of Russia still.

Out of curiosity, I compiled this little table:

Invasions of Afghanistan

* US/Nato 2001-2021
* USSR 1979-1989
* USSR 1930
* USSR 1929 (different from 1930)
* UK 1918
* UK 1878-1880
* UK 1838-1842
* Sikh Empire 1834-1838
* Mughal Empire 1506
* Tamerlane 1383-1386
* Mongols 1219-1221
* Muslim conquests 7th-12th centuries
* Kushans 1st century AD
* Alexander the Great 330 BC
* Achaemenid Empire (Darius I) 516 BC
* Medes ~ 600 BC

pt

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 10:19:44 AM UTC-4, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 7:20:43 AM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
> > On 8/17/21 8:19 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >
> > > The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
> > > isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
> > > ncessarily one's friend.
> > >
> > Biden said something which was remarkably intelligent for a US
> > president: "I will not repeat the mistakes we've made in the past. The
> > mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not
> > in the national security interest of the United States."
> The whole venture was a mistake, made in white-hot anger
> after 9/11. It should have been possible to take out OBL and AQ
> without a full takeover of Afghanistan.
>
> That said, this is The Great Game, and Putin and Xi are both
> now maneuvering to be the Talibans' BFF. I suspect China will
> win; the Taliban have bad memories of Russia still.
>
> Out of curiosity, I compiled this little table:
>
> Invasions of Afghanistan
>
> * US/Nato 2001-2021
> * USSR 1979-1989
> * USSR 1930
> * USSR 1929 (different from 1930)
> * UK 1918
> * UK 1878-1880
> * UK 1838-1842
> * Sikh Empire 1834-1838
> * Mughal Empire 1506
> * Tamerlane 1383-1386
> * Mongols 1219-1221
> * Muslim conquests 7th-12th centuries
> * Kushans 1st century AD
> * Alexander the Great 330 BC
> * Achaemenid Empire (Darius I) 516 BC
> * Medes ~ 600 BC
>
> pt

Very few people remember that it was Clinton who first bombed Afghanistan in 1998. Bin Laden's return fire pulled the Americans into a 20 year losing war.

John

"Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote in
news:sfhjmr$bib$1@reader1.panix.com:

> As horrible as the Taliban is, at least they're against "bacha
> bazi," i.e. the rape of young boys, unlike the local troops who
> were allied with the US.

They're much more fond of raping young girls, and are currently
collecting 12 year olds to sell into sexual slavery.

> The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way.

It's own was led to 9/11. But I supposed you approve of that.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote in
news:sfiqea$c3g$1@dont-email.me:

> On 8/17/21 8:19 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
>> The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way.
>> America isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's
>> enemy isn't ncessarily one's friend.
>>
>
> Biden said something which was remarkably intelligent for a US
> president: "I will not repeat the mistakes we've made in the
> past.

And yet, that's precisely what he's doing: abandoning allies to be
butchered by barbarians wholesale while running away with his tail
between his senile legs. The only thing even a little new is the
number of Americans left to die with them.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

In article <sfiqea$c3g$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>On 8/17/21 8:19 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>
>> The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
>> isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
>> ncessarily one's friend.
>
>Biden said something which was remarkably intelligent for a US
>president: "I will not repeat the mistakes we've made in the past. The
>mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not
>in the national security interest of the United States."

We have had a number of presidents who asked about leaving Afganistan
and were told that there were several options and they would all end in
some sort of disaster, and they all decided to leave the problem for
someone else to deal with.

As much as I dislike Trump, I will give him credit for looking at the bad
options and deciding to pull out anyway. Because we can have a disaster
now, or a disaster later, and it's better to have it now and get it over
with.

And I will also give Biden some credit for sticking with the plan, even
though he knew and his advisors all knew that it would end badly.

Invading Afghanistan was a terrible mistake, and after watching the
Russians do it and the English do it and then the Russians do it a
second time and disaster occuring every time, I was kind of surprised
we'd try it.
--scott

ObSF: Kim
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 11:16:10 AM UTC-4, j.hal...@rogers.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 10:19:44 AM UTC-4, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 7:20:43 AM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
> > > On 8/17/21 8:19 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> > >
> > > > The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
> > > > isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
> > > > ncessarily one's friend.
> > > >
> > > Biden said something which was remarkably intelligent for a US
> > > president: "I will not repeat the mistakes we've made in the past. The
> > > mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not
> > > in the national security interest of the United States."
> > The whole venture was a mistake, made in white-hot anger
> > after 9/11. It should have been possible to take out OBL and AQ
> > without a full takeover of Afghanistan.
> >
> > That said, this is The Great Game, and Putin and Xi are both
> > now maneuvering to be the Talibans' BFF. I suspect China will
> > win; the Taliban have bad memories of Russia still.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, I compiled this little table:
> >
> > Invasions of Afghanistan
> >
> > * US/Nato 2001-2021
> > * USSR 1979-1989
> > * USSR 1930
> > * USSR 1929 (different from 1930)
> > * UK 1918
> > * UK 1878-1880
> > * UK 1838-1842
> > * Sikh Empire 1834-1838
> > * Mughal Empire 1506
> > * Tamerlane 1383-1386
> > * Mongols 1219-1221
> > * Muslim conquests 7th-12th centuries
> > * Kushans 1st century AD
> > * Alexander the Great 330 BC
> > * Achaemenid Empire (Darius I) 516 BC
> > * Medes ~ 600 BC
> >
> > pt
> Very few people remember that it was Clinton who first bombed Afghanistan in 1998. Bin Laden's return fire pulled the Americans into a 20 year losing war.

AQ's stated reason for attacking the US was outrage over the stationing of 'infidel'
troops in Saudi Arabia, the land of the 'two holy mosques' at Meccan and Medina.

Don't forget that OBL and 19/20 of the 9/11 hijackers, were Saudis.

pt

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021 at 11:43:43 AM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <sfiqea$c3g$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >On 8/17/21 8:19 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >
> >> The US should let the Middle East go to hell in its own way. America
> >> isn't the world's policeman. And the enemy of one's enemy isn't
> >> ncessarily one's friend.
> >
> >Biden said something which was remarkably intelligent for a US
> >president: "I will not repeat the mistakes we've made in the past. The
> >mistake of staying and fighting indefinitely in a conflict that is not
> >in the national security interest of the United States."
> We have had a number of presidents who asked about leaving Afganistan
> and were told that there were several options and they would all end in
> some sort of disaster, and they all decided to leave the problem for
> someone else to deal with.
>
> As much as I dislike Trump, I will give him credit for looking at the bad
> options and deciding to pull out anyway. Because we can have a disaster
> now, or a disaster later, and it's better to have it now and get it over
> with.
>
> And I will also give Biden some credit for sticking with the plan, even
> though he knew and his advisors all knew that it would end badly.
>
> Invading Afghanistan was a terrible mistake, and after watching the
> Russians do it and the English do it and then the Russians do it a
> second time and disaster occuring every time, I was kind of surprised
> we'd try it.

Afghanistan is the very epitome of 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUUk6wVNrY

pt

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> And I will also give Biden some credit for sticking with the plan,
> even though he knew and his advisors all knew that it would end badly.

Biden said:

The Taliban is not the North Vietnamese army. They're not remotely
comparable in terms of capability. There's going to be no circumstance
where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy of the
United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable

He said that on July 8th. Of this year. And yet that is exactly what
ended up happening the following month. Only worse. In Saigon, nobody
tried to ride on the outside of an airplane, or in its wheel wells.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>> And I will also give Biden some credit for sticking with the plan,
>> even though he knew and his advisors all knew that it would end badly.
>
>Biden said:
>
> The Taliban is not the North Vietnamese army. They're not remotely
> comparable in terms of capability. There's going to be no circumstance
> where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy of the
> United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable
>
>He said that on July 8th. Of this year. And yet that is exactly what
>ended up happening the following month. Only worse.

When was the last time you ever heard a politician say "This is going to be
terrible for everyone, but any alternative is going to be worse?" It was
probably FDR. It has been a long time.

It's true that Al Sharpton said something like that after 9-11 but Al Sharpton
only barely counts as a politician.

>In Saigon, nobody
>tried to ride on the outside of an airplane, or in its wheel wells.

Most certainly they did. You wouldn't believe what was coming down at NKP.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."