dostaan-i-giraamii, aadaab 3arz hai.

In a recent thread, I added a few lines on the subject of "Urdu in Roman Transliteration. Then Raj Kumar saaHib added a comprehensive list of words to illustrate correct transliteration. I shall add both the contributions here so that present and future users may benefit from this, if they so wish. I would like to emphasise this much. No one is compelled to use this system.. Ultimately it is the writer's own choice as long as the reader is able to follow what is being communicated. These are merely guidelines to assist ALUP friends in writing Urdu in Roman in a way that may offer clarity in what we are posting in Urdu.

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https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/FH2HiZ2H-vY

10/05/2021

In this forum we normally use D for ڈ and R for ڑ.

T ٹ
ch چ
Kh or x for خ
Z for ژ
Either an appostrophe or 3 for ع e.g 'aabid/3aabid عابد (An apostrophe is also used for hamzah, e.g Jur'at as in the poet's name)
Gh for غ

ab اَب
aam آم
maaN ماں
in اِن
iiNT اِینٹ
un اُن
uuNT اُونٹ
le لے
mai مَے
ok اوک
aur اَور

For the aspirates, just add an h.
bhaap بھاپ
phuul پھول
Thaakur ٹھاکُر
chhatrii چھتری
rakhaa رکھا
rakkhaa رکھّا

Naseer

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11/05/2021

***janaab Naseer sahib:

aap na achchha kiyaa jo apni muNdaraja-baalaa post meN "Urdu in Roman transliteration" par aek suud-maNd sabaq naazireen-e-ALUP ko bil-umuum aur Khalid sahib ko bil-Khusuus pesh kiyaa hai. aap ke is sabaq ko mazeed jilaa dene ke liye, maiN yahaaN aek aisi fahrist pesh kar rahaa huuN, jis meN Dher saare alfaaz (jo d, r, D aur R jaise consonants par mabni haiN) ki transliteration vaazeH kii ga'ii hai. ummeed hai k hamaare kuchh dostoN ke liye yeh fahrist mufeed saabit hogi.

dar = darvaaza; similarly be-dar, dar-ba-dar
daar = suulii
daa'ir, as in muqaddama daa'ir karna
daraa, as in baaNg-e-daraa
darra, as in darra-e-Khaibar

der = delay, dair = maNdir

durr = motii --- often written as 'dur', which isn't wrong but isn't regarded as sophisticated!
dur = a sign-and-sound instruct asking someone to go away or get lost (derives from "door ho jaa!"); in Punjabi, we sometimes say (dur phiTe muNh). That is why you should always write 'durr' when you mean 'motii'!
duur = far, far away! One should never write 'dur' for 'duur'!

daur = an era
daura = a trip
raud = nadi/naddi

ruu-daad --- note two long vowels!

radd karnaa = to reject, to cancel --- 'daal' par tashdeed!
raddi, tardeed, taraddud, mustarad --- kaheeN tashdeed hai, kaheeN naheeN hai!

Dar = fear; Daar = a line, a row (as in kuuNjoN ki Daar)
Darnaa/Daraanaa
daaRhii/DaaRhii = a beard

Dher = a pile; DeRh = one and a half
DeoRhaa vs DeoRhii ---- what a difference!

aar, as in "magar va'ada karte huye aar kyaa thii"? [Iqbaal]
vs
aaR, as in "Gham ko chhupaa liyaa hai tabassum ki aaR meiN"! [Qais]

aaRe aanaa, uRnaa/uRaanaa, uRaan, oRhnaa-bichhona, ----

raRak, raRaknaa/raRkaanaa, riRaknaa, -----

reeRh ki haDDi
aRhaa'ii iiNT ki masjid

daraar/daraaR --- dono suurateN durust haiN!

dauR-dhuup karna, etc.

I hope this helps.

du'aa-go, Raj Kumar***

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Thank you very much indeed Raj Kumar SaaHib for your comprehensive addition of lists of words, to what I had started, that differentiate between similar yet completely different sets of words.

"raRak, raRaknaa/raRkaanaa, riRaknaa, -----"

When I saw these words, I immediately thought about Punjabi verbs and then realised they are identical in Urdu!:-) Apparently even "riRaknaa" exists for "bilonaa".

"aar, as in "magar va'ada karte huye aar kyaa thii"? [Iqbaal]"

Here, I personally prefer to differentiate between آر "aar" and "3aar"عار just as we have آم "aam" and "3aam" عام. But the reader may do as s/he pleases!:-) If I remember correctly from Raj Kumar SaaHib's previous lectures, I do not think this affects the vazn of a shi3r. However, in words such as متاع "mataa3", I undersand the final 3ain does make a difference. So, it should be shown either with an apostrophe or the symbol 3, whichever sign the writer finds preferable.

"daura = a trip"

Words which have a "gol he" at the end, I always prefer to indicate that the original word in Urdu has an "h" as the final consonat, albeit it is not pronounced.

e.g daurah دورہ , pardah پردہ , plurals being "daure" and "parde" when the "h" falls off.

Continuing nicely from this the word for a hemistich in Urdu is مصرع misra3, مصراع misraa3 or even مصرعہ misra3ah. The plural of all these forms is مصرعے. How does one tranliterate the plural? I think we have two choices. Either "misr3e/misr'e" (if you wish to indicate that the 3ain exists in the word) or "misre" if you don't feel that way inclined.

Words like "paa'oN" in older Urdu were written as "paaNv", i.e nasal before the consonant. I personally believe the older form was the more accurate format but the former variation is the norm these days.

Similarly, مہندی mihNdii according to one Urdu scholar should be written as منہدی miNhdii. Once again, the former is the norm although the latter is more correct (if we can have less correct and more correct!:-)). There are more such pairs of words but we won't bother with them here, at least not until someone mentions them!:-)

I have to confess, there are times when I am not 100% certain if the "n" is a fully fledged "nuun" or an "N", a nasal nuun (nuun-i-Ghunnah), e.g "andheraa" or "aNdheraa", "andhaa" or "aNdhaa". Similary "rang" or "raNg".

Ah, before I forget. The izaafat. I write it with an "i" as in Urdu, it is indicated (when indicated) by a "zer", e.g. دلِ ناداں dil-i-naadaaN. However, most if not all other friends on ALUP use "e", as in "dil-e-naadaaN". Take your pick once again.

And finally, one point I have a difference with Raj Kumar SaaHib and for the life of me, I can't understand why Raj Kumar SaaHib does this! It's very annoying!:-)

"aar, as in "magar va'ada karte huye aar kyaa thii"? [Iqbaal]"

Friends, let's concentrate on the word وَعدَہ

Please be fair. Would you agree that the letter sequence is:

Consonant + vowel + consonant + consonat + vowel + consonant ?

vaa'o + zabar +3ain + daal +zabar + he

Let's forget about the final "h"

So, should n't the transliteration be "va3da" or "va'da"? Where does Raj Kumar SaaHib get the extra "a" after the apostrophe, when 3ain is saakin?

Finally, finally.... Raj Kumar SaaHib, I thought you had agreed to write دونوں as donoN and NOT dono!:-)

Enough for the moment!

Naseer

dostaan-i-giraamii, aadaab.

Miir kaa ek shi3r hai

aage kisuu ke kyaa kareN dast-i-tama3 daraaz
vuh haath so gayaa hai sarhaane dhare dhare

kyaa yahaaN lafz "sarhaane" سرہانے hai yaa kih سرھانے, ya3nii do-chasmii he ke saath? Rasheed Hassan Khan jo kih ek shuhrat-yaaftah daanish-var haiN*, un ke mutaabiq yahaaN lafz سرھانے hii hai aur agar ise سرہانے likhaa jaa'e to shi3r baHr se xaarij ho jaa'e gaa. agar yih sach hai to سرھانے kii kyaa transliteration kii jaa'e?

ek aur baat aur is meN maiN xvud Ghalatii kartaa chalaa aa rahaa huuN .

rab kaa shukr adaa kar bhaa'ii
jis ne hamaarii *gaay* banaa'ii (gaaf mutaHarrik, alif saakin aur ye mauquuf) گاے

kalkatte kaa jo zikr kiyaa tuu ne ham-nashiiN
ik tiir mere siine meN maaraa kih *haay haay* ہاے ہاے

duur ko'ii gaa'e dhun yih sunaa'e گائے (gaaf mutaHarrik, alif saakin, hamzah mutaharrik and ye saakin)

mutaHarrik Harf par zabar, zer yaa pesh hotii hai. "saakin" vuh Harf hotaa hai jis par jazm ho aur us se pahle ko'ii mutaHarrik harf ho jabkih "mauquuf" vuh hai jis par jazm ho aur us se pahle ko'ii saakin harf ho.

I've been writing both of these as "gaa'e"! I presume, in "vazn" terms these two words bear different weight. (?)

Similarly, the word for "tea" ought to be written as "chaay" چاے and not چائے. It's another matter that I've never seen چائے written as چاے !:-) aur bhii aise alfaaz haiN jin ke aaxir meN ye "mauquuf" hai, "saakin" nahiiN. maziid misaaleN...

aab-naay, raay, baraay, ba-jaay, vaay, sivaay

shaayad aise alfaaz ke aaxir meN ek "e" kaa izaafah kar denaa bihtar ho kyoNkih mere nazdiik گائے aur گاے ke talaffuz meN ko'ii numaayaaN farq sunaa'ii nahiiN detaa.

* is laRii meN maiN un ke xayaalaat se maziid iqtibaas kartaa rahuuN gaa.

Naseer