On Friday, 28 May 2021 at 15:16:49 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 8:20:15 AM UTC-4, Naseer wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 25 May 2021 at 21:49:21 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > Khalid
> > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > >
> > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > ________Zoya
> > > Aadaab:
> > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > >
> > > A Team:
> > > Ghalib
> > > Mir
> > > Iqbal
> > > Sauda
> > > Dard
> > > Aatish
> > > Momin
> > > Mashafi
> > > Mir Anis
> > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > Dagh
> > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > >
> > > B Team:
> > > Zauq
> > > Vali
> > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > Shaifta
> > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > Shah Naseer
> > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > Fani Badayuni
> > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > >
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Khalid
> > Khalid SaaHib, aadaab.
> >
> > Your original question was about top four poets. The above A and B teams are Dr. Maqbool SaaHib's top Ghazal poets. Either way, anyone providing a list of 4 best Urdu poets or best Ghazal poets would need to bear in mind the following.
> >
> > 1. The criteria under which a poet is being judged.
> >
> > 2. To have read the works of all poets from Vali Dakkani down to the modern era.
> >
> > I don't know how many people have read everything there is of all the Urdu poets but I have read very little of Urdu poetry (or any other poetry for that matter). So, under both counts I would not be qualified to make such a list. I suspect Urdu scholars and critics have read reasonable chunks of most of the poets worth (in their eyes) reading. As far as I know, the critics generally have this order.
> >
> > 1. Miir
> > 2. Ghalib
> > 3. Iqbal
> >
> > For some reason they don't go beyond 3!:-) I also don't know the criteria these people are using to make their judgement. It seems, some argue that Ghalib is above Miir. I think, short of providing factual evidence for the criteria under discussion, most mortals like us just go by the whim of our heart and like a poet or not. Other times you may like something of one poet but not necessarily everything that s/he has written. So, it is all rather subjective. Please allow me to provide one or two examples.
> >
> > "Meer Anees, Meer Dard, Nasikh, Momin, Dagh in sab ke yahaaN muzakkar mu'annas, muHaavarah, talaffuz aur ma3nii kii GhalatiyaaN miltii haiN. lekin is ke baa-vujuud vuh mustanad ThahreN aur bichaarah Iqbal jo Anees-o-Meer se kam darjah shaa3ir hargiz nahiiN, sirf is liye paayah-i-i3tibaar se saaqit ho kih us ke yahaaN zabaan kii do-chaar laGhzisheN nazar aatii haiN?" Shamsur Rahman Faruqi
> >
> > It appears that Faruqi is placing Iqbal at par with Miir and Anis (the last mentioned could be 4th on the critics' list perhaps). On the other hand Professor Gyan Chand Jain has said the following about Iqbal, in his article entitled, "Ghair Muslim rahnumaay-i-diin - Iqbal kii nazar meN"...
> >
> > "mujhe Hakiim-i-millat 'Allama Iqbal ke nazriyaat se bunyaadii ixtilaaf hai lekin is ke baavujuud maiN do sachchaa'iyoN se inkaar nahiiN kar saktaa. ek yih kih Iqbal Urdu ke sab se baRe shaa3ir haiN. Ghalib se baRe, Miir aur Anis se baRe. duusre yih kih...."So, now the list is
> >
> > 1. Iqbal
> > 2. Miir
> > 3. Ghalib
> > 4. Anis
> >
> > The situation for 2, 3 and 4 could be in a state of flux or in words it is "fluid":-)
> >
> > Most of you if not all, will have heard of the renowned scholar of Urdu, Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor (1911-2002), who has many publications to his name. Amongst these is one bearing the name of "Daanishvar Iqbal" and the last chapter is called "Sirf ek kitaab". In this chapter he mentions Maulana Jauhar who, when he was on a journey, was asked which one book he would like to take with him. He chose the Qur'an but when he was pushed to give another choice, he went for "Diivan-i-DaaGh". Niyaz Fathepuri said somewhere that if he had to choose the diivan of just one poet, he would go for Momin.... Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor then goes on to talk about himself.
> >
> > "mujhe agar hazaaroN kitaaboN meN ek kaa intixaab karnaa ho, samundar meN se ek mauj par tavajjuh markuuz karnii ho, baaGh meN se ek phuul chun_naa ho to maiN "Baal-i-Jibriil" kaa naam luuN gaa.
> >
> > ....puurii Urdu shaa3irii meN Meer ke muntaxib ash3aar, Diivan-i-Ghalib aur Aniis ke kuchh marsiyoN ke 3ilaavah yahii ek kitaab hai jise ham Urdu shaa3irii kii 3aalamii adab ko dain kah sakte haiN xvaah Kaleem-ud-Deen yaa Firaq kuchh bhii kaheN. is meN Iqbal kii shaa3irii kaa badr-i-kaamil hii nahiiN, sadiyoN kii chaman-bandii kaa Haasil bhii mil saktaa hai. is kii nazmeN aur GhazleN donoN Urdu shaa3irii kii aabruu haiN....."
> >
> > It appears that in his list Miir, Ghalib, Anis have found a place and Iqbal could be at the top.
> >
> > Now please allow me to quote from an article bearing the name "xudaa bane the Yagaana" by K.K.Khullar's from his book, "Urdu kaa aaxirii naqqaad". You may already know and Professor Raj Kumar SaaHib will confirm this. Yaas Yagana Changezi detested Mirza Ghalib but this was mild compared with his feelings for Iqbal. He in fact liked to call him by the name "Ikbaal" due to Iqbal's Punjabi ethnicity!
> >
> > "maahir-i-nafsiyaat kaa kahnaa hai kih Ghalib Yagana ke dil-o-dimaaGh par chha'e hu'e the lekin Iqbal ko unhoN ne kabhii Ustaad nahiiN maanaa. vuh kahte the kih Iqbal ek nihaayat "Shaikh Chillii" qism kaa insaan thaa jise siyaasat ne banaayaa. shaa3irii aur siyaasat do 3alaiHidah chiizeN haiN. un kaa kahnaa thaa, "Iqbal Sir to ho gayaa lekin shaa3ir nah ban sakaa". bichaarah isii fikr-i-maHaal meN chal basaa. vuh Iqbal ko Ikbaal likhte the..
> >
> > isTej kaa shaa3ir hai nah chauraahe kaa
> > letaa hai qalam se kaam charvaahe kaa
> > maiN bhii vahii kahtaa huuN jo tum kahte ho
> > Ikbaal ik baal hai magar kaahe kaa"
> >
> > So, I assume, according to Yagana Changezi, Iqbal would n't qualify to be on any list of poets, let alone A or B teams!
> >
> > Just comparing the views of four people Iqbal could be anywhere between 1, 2, 3, 4 or no where! If this is the view of those in the know, what chance do we have?
> >
> > I too am perplexed that Faiz's name is not there amongst Dr. Maqbool's two lists. Not only this, apart from Iqbal, no other Punjabi poet has found a place amongst the chosen few! Where are the Hindu poets like Daya Shankar Nasim, Pandit Brij Narayan Chakbast, Pandit Labho Ram Josh Malsiyani, 'Arsh Malsiyani and many more? ? (I know one sole figure, Firaq Gorakhpuri has been accorded the honour!) You can see all this can be rather controversial!:-)
> >
> > Naseer
> Aadaab all:
> Naseer SahHib, thanks for your detailed response. I will forward it to Sohail. I will also speak with him later once he has read it. He is on the move these days but I will catch him somewhere.
> It is imperative that you and Sohail should have a detailed conversation - a verbal one. He is dying for it. He feels that oral discussion is more productive and satisfying than a written one. And he wouldn't write, any way.. Finally I, Sohail and Zoya SaHiba have established verbal lines of communication. My telephone number, as well as Sohail's number, is available on this forum. You could communicate with me via WhatsApp and
> I will pass that number on to Sohail. If you don't trust me then you could send your number to Zoya SaHiba, who would pass it on to Sohail. In any case, I feel a verbal communication must be established between you and Sohail. It wouldn't be the same I relaying his response to you as he speaking directly to you.
> Best wishes.
> Xalid

Khalid SaaHib, aadaab.

I have responded to your post. It is not a matter of not trusting you or anyone else but I am not in the same league as people like Dr. Maqbool SaaHib.. So, please, I wish to excused from these telephonic or other communications.

Best wishes,
Naseer