The Idiot <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <tlcmle$3fm30$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> The Idiot <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <tlbaav$39ind$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> The Idiot <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> In article <tl896k$2vbai$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>>> And now that Chibnall has nearly destroyerd the franchise...
>>
>> Whether he has or hasn’t (he hasn’t) is irrelevant to the fact that your
>> call for retcon was originally due to your misogynistic hatred of Jodie as
>> the Doctor, and had nothing to do with Chibnall. And whether he has or
>> hasn’t (he hasn’t) has no bearing on whether the annoying Timeless Child
>> retcon breaks or contradicts the existing canon (it doesn’t).
>
> Fact is he almost made Doctor Who into damaged goods!

Chibnall’s tenure hasn’t been great (though there are those online who
think it has, and that Jodie Whittaker was the Best! Doctor! Ever!). But he
delivered well enough to keep Doctor Who consistently in the top ten shows
of each week - and one of the top 2 or 3 scripted shows on the BBC. And
well enough that in a recent Radio Times poll it still came in at #2 of the
Greatest Shows of the last 25 years (below Call the Midwife but above Line
of Duty and Game of Thrones).

> Thankfully RTD to the rescue!

RTD wasn’t called in by a desperate BBC you know. Fact is that in lockdown
he did a bunch of Who related stuff, realised he’d fallen back in love with
the show and when Catherine Tate jokingly said after an online
watch-through “we should do this again you know” he thought about it, took
it seriously and asked the BBC if he could have his ball back, please. And
when he hired Ncuti Gatwa, he knew he would need to do something else to
deliver a 60th anniversary special and came up with the “Tennant reprised”
mini season (which, at three hours, isn’t far short of a full 7th Doctor
season).

>> Yes, I was talking about the Timeless Child narrative, not the whole Doctor
>> Who narrative. What’s your point?
>
> The Timeless Child is mutually exclusive to Doctor Who!

This is part of your problem Dave - an inability to accept reality. The
Timeless Child is now part of the history of Doctor Who, and not excluded
from it. But like most history, we’re all pretty much going to forget it.
Which is a win.

>> Artron energy is a byproduct of time travel and has nothing to do with
>> Gallifrey or the Gallifreyan species, so why bring it up here?
>
> Because you need artron energy for regeneration.

Again Dave, that is not stated anywhere in the show. You’re just making
that up. If you want to argue this point, rewatch the story where you think
this is said (or read a good transcript) and QUOTE the lines that support
your position.

Just naming a story (which, hen examined, will turn out not to support your
case) isn’t enough.

> More reason why the Timeless Child should be retconned!

Since your reason is a lie, that isn’t right.

>>> The Divioion is bogus!
>>
>> That’s just a meaningless assertion, Dave. “La La La, I don’t like this so
>> it doesn’t exist” isn’t really a basis for debate.
>
> Just as meaningless as the contradiction from Chibnall into the lore?!

That sentence doesn’t quite parse in English, but as I’ve demonstrated to
the point of exhaustion that there aren’t any such contradictions, yes it’s
100% meaningless. Like most of the things you say.

>> You didn’t read what was written, did you, Dave? We all know what the
>> Doctor did. And she could still have been “the woman” in The End of Time
>> (but probably wasn’t). See the quoted paragraphs above for how.
>>
>
> Doubtful that was Susan!

Yes, it’s highly doubtful that it was. But that’s not what you said before,
you said “Certainly not Susan”.

>>> The division contradicts Gallifrey!
>>
>> Another meaningless assertion Dave, and in this case a fatuous one. Think
>> about it. In what way can a secret agency contradict a planet? They aren’t
>> the same class of entity. Does the FBI contradict granite?
>
> You mean the CIA!

I didn’t, but does it matter? An organisation cannot be a contradiction of
a physical object. Honestly.

>> 2) The Timeless Child legend is part of Doctor Who, so it can’t contradict
>> Doctor Who. You have to pick something specific that it contradicts.
>
> The Timeless Child contradictis Doctor Who!

Read what I wrote and try again. B forms part of ABC therefore B can’t
contradict ABC.

>> 3) What evidence? You never provide any. You need quotes from the show that
>> the Timeless Child narrative (including its rationalisations for why the
>> Doctor and most Time Lords don’t know about the Timeless Child) contradicts.
>> And you’ve never found even one.
>>
>
> Or are you ignoring such quotes?

No. If you ever gave quotes I’d examine them and either agree with you or
point out where you went wrong. You keep failing the first criterion - you
never provide a relevant quote.

>>>> It could be - but it’s canon until someone changes it. Which is unlikely to
>>>> happen as it’s easier to ignore than to deal with.
>>
>>> Easier to retconning out!
>>
>> No, how is adding yet more complexity in order to retcon something stupid
>> easier than ignoring it?
>
> Easier once out it cannot be entertained again.

It could, but that’s beside the point. If we ignore it, we aren’t
entertaining it again. That’s part of what “ignoring it” means.

>>> Canon means you reject the Timeless Child.
>>
>> That’s a meaningless comment as written, Dave. The Timeless Child is part
>> of the canon, so what you wrote there essentially says “canon means you
>> reject the canon”.
>
> Sorry you are sounding like those woke Chibnallites.

I’m sorry you are sounding like a complete idiot. Am I “woke”? By Aggie’s
definition, certainly not. That’s him. By the real definition? This one?

woke /wəʊk/
adjective INFORMAL•US
alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

Probably not as much as I’d like to hope I am.

Am I a “Chibnallite”? Let me repeat: Chibnall’s tenure hasn’t been great.
And I’ve never said otherwise. So I don’t believe I am a “Chibnallite”,
which doesn’t seem to be a thing. Here’s what Google has to say not the
subject of “Chibnallite”:

It looks like there aren't many great matches for your search
Try using words that might appear on the page that you’re looking for. For
example, 'cake recipes' instead of 'how to make a cake'.

>>> Note the TARDIS did need a refill from the Cardiff rift!
>>
>> So Boom Town contradicts the canon. We know.
>>
>> However, the whole exposition was done by Jack and Rose, who may have
>> misinterpreted what the Doctor told them. For example, suppose the TARDIS
>> has an engine something like a car, and rift energy is actually recharging
>> the battery for the starter motor to work, rather than supplying fuel for
>> motive power?
>>
>> See? Some contradictions are easy to rationalise away.
>>
> NOpe! That was done away in Day fo the Doctor.

What was? The idea that some contradictions are easy to rationalise away?
Hint: if you don’t want to discuss the subject of the preceding sentence,
provide a subject. “That” or “it” in isolation, means the last thing that
was talked about.

>>> The whole era deserves retconning!
>>
>> So you keep saying. I say the same about the McCoy era. But neither is
>> going to get retconned, so tough for both of us.
>>
>
> The Mccoy Era is about Doctor Who! The Timeless Child is not!

Then stop discussing it and go and watch something else. Just because I
hate cheese doesn’t mean it’s not part of the burger I’m thinking about
eating, if it’s already melted onto the patty.

>>> So you hate the Deadly assassin MM?
>>
>> No, I quite like the Deadly Assassin. However, the extremely silly
>> technobabble about the Master’s plan is referring to a specific
>> circumstance - forcing a body to regenerate a thirteenth time when it’s
>> clapped out. It doesn’t say anything about how normal regeneration occurs
>> or that the Eye is related to it - everyone except the Doctor, who
>> magically knows the truth and conjures up the Master’s plan out of nowhere,
>> believes the Eye is a myth.
>>
>> Note that the Master’s motivation here is contradicted and made pointless
>> by The Five Doctors. After all that insistence that twelve regenerations is
>> a complete and total limit, and only blowing up the Eye of Harmony will
>> break that limit … it turns out that all the Master had to do was ask
>> nicely and he could have been granted a new cycle of regenerations.
>>
>
> Yet to is establish that you need the Eye of Harmony for Time TRavel!

That’s gibberish Dave. But why have you switched to discussing time travel?
The argument was over your false assertion that the Eye was needed for
regeneration.

>>> And still bad! Incomplete Mondasian?
>>>
>>> Incomplete other species is understandable!
>>
>> Mondasians were human, Dave. No different from Bates, Stratton or anyone
>> else. Mondas was Earth’s twin planet, remember? You’re just sulking over
>> nothing now.
>
> But how incomplete is the Mondasian process on Mondasians?

The process succeeds or fails on an individual basis. It’s not “all or
nothing” by population.

>> It’s you who’s forgetting - I’m not discussing how many people
>> don’t rate
>> Chibnall. I don’t rate him myself. But by comparison to Aggie, he’s
>> Shakespeare.
>
> Not even on Doctor Who Infinity?

I’m not aware Chibnall has ever contributed to Doctor Who Infinity. But if
he did, I’m willing to bet he’d be an incomparably better writer than Aggie
there, too, and everyone would agree y except Aggie, who would be calling
everyone on Earth apart from himself an uneducated illiterate moron, as
usual.

>> Nope. “Artron energy” is technobabbled without explanation in the Deadly
>> Assassin as a form of mental energy used in the Matrix - it is said to be
>> why the Doctor is breathing when he has just died from the shock of being
>> in the Matrix (spoiler: he wasn’t dead!), it is said to be what the Doctor
>> can use to defend himself against his opponent’s mental projection, and it
>> is Goth’s excuse to the Master for why he failed to kill the Doctor in the
>> Matrix.
>>
>> In this instance, it’s associated with neither time travel nor
>> regeneration- it’s just a buzzword.
>>
>
> What buzzword! It has been around since early DW!

Read the lines where it’s used in “Deadly Assassin” Dave. It won’t take
long, there are only three of them. Then, using only the context of that
story (which might be the first time the word is used) tell me what it
means. I bet you can’t, other than “artron” means “artron”. Buzzword.

Even so, note how intimately it is associated with regeneration here - that
is, not at all.

>>> Relegate the pre-HArtnell to the dustbin of history where it belongs.
>>
>> Well done Dave. You have successfully repeated what I just said. Have a
>> jelly baby.
>>
>
> And relegate the Timelss Child as well!

I’ve already stated that I strongly believe the whole legend will be
consigned to the Black Archive of the show, there to moulder for eternity.

>> Good luck with that, if you ever find one. Will you stop trying to fight
>> me, and truth, if you do ever find a “Chibnallite”?
>>
>> --
>> There are some corners of the universe
>> which have bred the most terrible things.
>> Things which act against everything we believe in.
>>
>> They must be /fought/.
>
> All Chibnallites must be fought!

Repetitive. See above and answer the question.

--
There are some corners of the universe
which have bred the most terrible things.
Things which act against everything we believe in.

They must be /fought/.