On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 6:25:01 PM UTC-4, eagali...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:07:39 AM UTC-7, RJKe...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 10:26:33 AM UTC-4, eagali...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 7:12:27 AM UTC-7, RJKe...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 9:21:14 AM UTC-4, eagali...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:11:37 AM UTC-7, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:16:06 PM UTC-4, eagali...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 3:56:31 PM UTC-7, geoff wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 28/04/2022 4:03 am, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 5:30:15 PM UTC-4, eagali...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 4:08:26 AM UTC-7, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 3:12:36 PM UTC-4, eagali....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> The song "Imagine" resulted from discussing a book about prayer with Dick Gregory - I have a family member who insists the line about "no religion" proves he was promoting heathenism, while my opinion is the theme follows the "Our Father" prayer: the best way for God's Will to be done on Earth as it is in Heaven is to stop arguing about prejudices and possessions, manifest a rational society in the here and now. The full Maureen Cleave article from 1966 noted that two of John's favorite possessions were a Bible and a Crucifix; but wife Cynthia's gift of mechanized caged singing bird struck him as offensively bourgeois and partially inspired "And Your Bird Can Sing" - "when your prized possessions start to bring you down" is a similar anti-materialistic theme as "Can't Buy Me Love."
> > > > > > > > >>> Your family member has a point; Lennon did occasionally purport to be a "born-again pagan." He had Christian phases, too -- one of which Yoko squelched because she feared it would prevent her from controlling him through the occult. Which brings up the point that he went along with Ono's occultism. And we know that John also had a soft spot for gurus. Like I said before, he was all over the map; he did not subscribe to any one belief system for too long.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Didn't Lennon explain somewhere that by "Imagine no religion" what he meant to say is that there should be no "one religion" that excluded others?
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> I expect we'd agree Lennon did not wish for an *absence* of religion any more than he wished for an absence of possessions.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Did anyone ever discover the title of the book gifted to Lennon by Dick Gregory?
> > > > > > > > >> John called his period circa 1969 "Christian Communist," recognizing it as a phase. We think of him pushing people's buttons on controversial issues, but in my book on the "Beatles For Sale" era ("The Quality Of Mersey") the whole group is being interviewed together, and they projected a unified religious perspective ("more agnostic than atheistic" was Lennon's assessment), with Paul and Ringo making some provocative remarks. Paul said, "We probably seem antireligious because none of us believe in God"; Harrison declared, "John's our official religious spokesman." John said that's how most people really feel, with Ringo agreeing, "It's better to admit it than be a hypocrite." Lennon saw hypocrisy in the clergy lamenting the conditions of the poor without being charitable to them. McCartney mentioned the cost of a single bronze door in the Vatican.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Paul made it clear none of that discussion involved the actual teachings of Jesus: "Believe it or, we're not anti-Christ." Then Ringo qualified that with, "Just anti-pope and anti-Christian." So there was agnosticism, leaning pro-Christ - but righteously anti-Christian, shared by the entire group.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> So the song "God" uses the title word to address the typical cultural perception, the concept that placates pain and suffering with the dubious promise of eternal happiness once everything is over. It could not be about Lennon's own personal conclusion that God does not exist, since he described in a 1968 interview that through drugs, diet and meditation he had sensed a Higher Power. What is being disbelieved in "God" is resorting to the victim mindset that effectively allows the oppressor minimal resistance. The idea is the more pain you have, the more God you need psychologically as a coping mechanism, usually for something that shouldn't be happening in the first place. Think of the 'Negro Spiritual' songs borne of suffering in slavery. Pie in the sky when you die by and by.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> At the time John was completing primal therapy with Arthur Janov, who considered religion madness, and Lennon later admitted the attempt to purge it from his psyche failed. He called himself "a most religious fellow." Even in childhood, John would point upwards and say "Somebody's watching" when he detected mischief; once he walked in announcing he had just seen God. John spoke of other religious figures who were advanced spiritually like Jesus, with admiration for their simple rational philosophies that few seem to grasp. An interviewer brought up the rumor he proclaimed he WAS God, receiving the reply he had not meant he was "A God or THE God," but shared a fragment of divinity: "We have all things within us," the option of being evil or righteous through exercise of free will. He said the recurrent dichotomy of moral extremes was summed up in the Christ-versus-Hitler contrast.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I remember an interview with Lennon in which he pronounced vaguely that "God is an energy, a power source," but that "I never believed it was any one thing."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Under Janov's influence, Lennon asserted that "God is a concept by which we measure our pain."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then there were his televangelist phases, during which he presumably accepted the god of Christianity.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And the "born-again pagan" identification came in 1979, IIRC.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Again, I see a guy whose beliefs fluctuated wildly depending on what drugs he was on, what TV he was watching, and who he was hanging out with.
> > > > > > > > More than that, comments not intended to indicate any genuine belief,
> > > > > > > > but merely an off-the-cuff comments intended to rankle the other party,
> > > > > > > > or to engender controversy for controversy’s sake.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > An approach which certainly seems to have worked extremely well with
> > > > > > > > some fanatics !
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > geoff
> > > > > > > A Beatle in a 1964 group interview (published in 1965) said, "We probably seem antireligious because of the fact that none of us believes in God" - that was Paul McCartney.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When Paul continued, "We're not anti-Christ," one of them added, "Just anti-pope and anti-Christian" - that was Ringo Starr.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > McCartney expressed outrage that there was a societal stigma against atheism.
> > > > > > Really? How brave, if so. I'd very much like to see a quotation..
> > > > > The full text is available online, it's Jean Shepherd's interview for Playboy; my commentary version delves into key points hinted by the actual content, separating from the high-energy banter for media consumption. They were resuming a national tour with two shows in Exeter, and it took place around 11 pm in their Torquay hotel room. The sense is that a tape ran as a rambling conversation developed, and it all got printed verbatim.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone can now hear the pro-religion single minute from John Lennon's interview with David Wigg (10:07 to 11:08 in the link below):
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db0Y4ul32U8
> > > > >
> > > > > For those who do not want to be bothered listening to this rare, intriguing interview, here is brief transcription --
> > > > >
> > > > > DW: "John, on one broadcast in France, you said that you were God.. Were you serious about that? Do you really FEEL you are God?"
> > > > >
> > > > > JL: "We're all God. Christ said The Kingdom of Heaven is within you, and that's what it means. And the Indians say that, and the Zen people say that: It's a basic thing of religion - We're All God. I'm not A god, or THE God - NOT THE God! - But we're all God, and we're all potentially divine, and potentially evil. We all have everything within us, and The Kingdom of Heaven is nigh, AND within us. And if you look hard enough, you'll see it."
> > > > >
> > > > > DW: "Do you then believe in life after death?"
> > > > >
> > > > > JL: "I do. Without any doubt I believe in it."
> > > > >
> > > > > DW: "Have you had any special experiences that make you believe so convincingly?"
> > > > >
> > > > > JL: "In meditation, on drugs, on diets, I've been aware of a Soul, and been aware of The Power."
> > > > >
> > > > > *
> > > > >
> > > > > Even the infamously controversial Maureen Cleave interview involved discussion of a book about Christ's Disciples, "The Passover Plot."
> > >
> > > > I honestly have no idea what it means to say "We're all God." I don't consider myself godlike. Are bad guys also God according to John?
> > > If God created everything, then what material is it ALL made from? Having a fragment of the Godhead's divinity through existence itself is not the same as BEING The Godhead, it is a simple distinction. I doubt many evil figures throughout history ever thought themselves so - there is always a justification, rationalizing whatever is done as improvements. Evil people simply exercise free will in ways that do not please God, to eventually incur a negative judgment.
> > >
> > > So bearing a fragment of divinity carries responsibility that one's lifetime(s) might not manifest as righteous acts.
> > >
> > > Any religious statement will be controversial until the soul separation (Reaping) events make the esoteric explicit - but of course then it will be too late to repent and convert.
> > >
> > > Remember that JL from 1964 was saying The Beatles were not show business, it was a task that once performed would be finished, there could be no gimmicks or tricks to keep things going (despite what people thought), and that the project should be completed in about five years (i.e., circa 1969). In 1980 he quoted the Bible that there is nothing new under the sun, so an existing story as subtext source was being insinuated.
> > >
> > > "If you want to use The Beatles or John and Yoko, people are expecting us to do something FOR them - that's not what's gonna happen: because THEY'RE the ones that didn't understand ANY message that came before anyway, and they're the ones that will FOLLOW Hitler, or follow the Reverend Moon, or whatever. FOLLOWING is not what it's about."
> > >
> > > More to your issue: "I think the idea of leadership is that old Judao-Christian idea of the separateness of God - FROM us, as being OUTSIDE of us - the Other. We ARE The Other: there is only One. So therefore, people kind of expect more from us than they expect from themselves... We take responsibility for the WHOLE THING, because we're ALL responsible for the whole thing."
> > >
> > > A reunion of his former band suggested the crowd would be "expecting God to perform."
> > >
> > > The rooftop concert controlled the elements of their actual concerts: they could not be shouted down, their personas and movements were not a distraction from the music, and the excuse the fans already had the records since the material was new.
> > >
> > > Canonical texts attributed to Henoch include a dream involving animals that forecast the entire course of human history, from Cain killing Abel to the Apocalyptic period. It has correct chronology and scenarios about the ascension of Elijah, Christ and His disciples, Constantine's three sons, etc. leading into the Nazi Holocaust: the next passage could be the first instance of Isaiah 6, regarding an inability to properly process audio-visual material, which Jesus reiterated. The story has one of the eyes-open sheep group being killed, then someone represented as ram also opens his eyes and sprouts a horn of Faith, which many try to break. Ultimately an Abyss opens in the physical and astral dimensions simultaneously, into which the 'blind sheep' are thrust with their unrighteous leaders, along with the demons who were actually guiding them.
> > >
> > > The open eyes signify awareness of the subliminal aspects, to which the blind sheep remain oblivious.
> > >
> > > The old tunes brought out for 1969 had some musical communication that was too fast and unfamiliar to expect conscious comprehension by the people in the street. The opening of "Dig A Pony" just seems like a rapid rambling guitar passage that repeats - but without giving away the startling whole message, the first portion sounds like,
> > >
> > > 'Jesus was a Leader -
> > > THE Apostle Leader -
> > > But without...'
> > >
> > > The next five transcribed words completing that musically hidden remark is essentially dismissive of those thinking declaring themselves a follower is all that was required.
> > >
> > > George Harrison in "Something" with the line, "You know I believe, and how," was announcing his self-confirmation was complete - certainly enough had occurred to reinforce his faith. Yet with John's "God" we have the contrasting, cynical view, actually a 'Crisis of Faith," which takes into account the public reaction in a more practical way - yes, there was a big reaction, but not the one that was anticipated, of clarity with conceptual esotericism. John knew that although his band was intellectual, that was not their appeal.
> > >
> > > John proverbially described how The Beatles were in the crow's nest or at the masthead, but we are all in the same boat.
> > Old Siam Sir, that's worth a revisit.
> >
> > That's one of Paul's most underrated albums.
> The title implies 'Old's I Am,' there was video featuring a lot of the "Back To The Egg" (there's some heavy embryonic-reversal symbolism) songs, some tracks were recorded in a castle. The lyrics include some British locations, in a fanciful tale for the conscious mind, while the music itself takes the subconscious elsewhere - by unexpectedly having instruments seem to be voicing phrases on a theme with expressive cadence. The cover image had the bizarre twist of unrolling a living room rug to view Earth through a floor portal. That was after the "London Town" cover featured the Thames in the same position as 'distant Earth,' some recorded on a yacht in the Virgin Islands.
>
> The BTTE inner sleeve had the dome of Chapel where the Holy Shroud resides in Turin, designed by Guarino Guarini.

I'll have to look for the videos.

What do you think, is it a solid album? I remember that the critics were vicious.