On 09/10/2022 03:02 PM, a425couple wrote:
> On 09/10/2022 12:48 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>> I haven't seen much commentary on the Ukrainian war from the
>> "Russian victory is inevitable" side here recently. You guys
>> feeling OK?
>
> I think they may be feeling a bit green around the gills.
>
> from
> https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2022/09/10/it-will-be-like-an-avalanche-ukraine-seizes-key-strategic-city-russia-pulling-back-n495551
>
> “It will be like an avalanche": Ukraine seizes key strategic city;
> Russia "pulling back"? UPDATE: NYT reports Izyum in Ukraine control
> ED MORRISSEY Sep 10, 2022 11:31 AM ET
>

And a little bit ago, this might have sounded like science fiction, or
fantasy:

from
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-moscow-putin-war-ukraine-resignation-revolt-1741743

Putin Faces Second Revolt as Russian Officials Slam War, Demand Resignation
BY BRENDAN COLE ON 9/10/22 AT 7:10 AM EDT

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Vladimir Putin Insists Russia Has Not Lost Anything From Waging Ukraine War

A Moscow municipality has become the second Russian local authority this
week to take the risk of calling for Vladimir Putin's resignation.

The letter addressed to the president by council deputies at
Lomonosovsky Municipal District did not directly mention Putin's
invasion of Ukraine, but did refer to how Russia had now become "feared
and hated" while "aggression" has taken the country back to the "Cold
War era."

The letter also made a pointed criticism of the length of Putin's
presidency, describing how following local Moscow elections on Sunday,
it was a good thing that the council's membership would change after
five years.

"In countries with regular turnover of power, people, on average, live
better and longer than in those where the leader leaves office carried
out in a box," it said.

NEWSWEEK NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP >
Russian President Vladimir Putin
Russian President Vladimir Putin at the Kremlin in Moscow on September
9, 2022. A Moscow municipality has passed a motion and sent a letter
calling for Putin's resignation.

Putin became president in 2000, a role he has held apart from four years
between 2008 and 2012, when Dmitry Medvedev took over in what was seen
globally as a move just to keep his seat warm. Upon resuming the
presidency in 2012, the Russian constitution has been changed to allow
him to potentially stay as head of state until 2036.

The missive went on to say there had been "good reforms" in the first
and part of the second of Putin's terms, but after that "somehow
everything went wrong." It referred to Russia's brain drain, how the
minimum wage and GDP did not rise enough and the "promised stability is
not in sight."

"The rhetoric that you and your subordinates are using has been riddled
with intolerance and aggression for a long time, which in the end
effectively threw our country back into the Cold War era," the letter said.

"Russia has again begun to be feared and hated, we again threaten the
whole world with nuclear weapons," it added. "We ask you to relieve
yourself of your post due to the fact that your views, your management
model are hopelessly outdated and hinder the development of Russia and
its human potential."

Journalist and Russia watcher Julia Davis tweeted how the council had
voted on the motion and produced the letter, which was also reported by
the independent Russian-language news outlet The Insider.

"Criticism of Putin is rare, & while the two motions were little more
than symbolic statements, they represented a remarkable public rebuke,"
Davis wrote.

READ MORE
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Newsweek has contacted the Kremlin and Lomonosovsky Municipal District
Council for comment.

Criticizing Putin so brazenly carries a considerable risk where dissent
can lead to imprisonment or worse. Police in St Petersburg have said
they would charge lawmakers at Smolninsky District Council in Putin's
home town after they called for the president to be charged with treason.

The district council's statement came in the form of a request to the
Russian parliament, the State Duma, and said Putin's invasion led to a
massive loss of life, disabled veterans, hindered the national economy,
and fast-tracked NATO's eastward expansion. Police said they face
charges linked to "discrediting" the Russian government,

Conversation55 Comments
Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness. Read our guidelines
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Don P
9 hours ago
The cracks are starting to appear, it won't be fast but Putin's end is
coming. Ukraine starts taking large numbers of the soldiers they have
surrounded prisoner and Ukraine lets them call home and there will be
more outcry, The thing about dissent is it often gives others the
courage to speak out. Two municipalities so close together could be the
beginning of a tidal wave.

Reagan1984
12 hours ago
Isn't it amazing?

These several Municipal Deputies are prepared to go on the record to
criticise Putin's war and the damage that it is doing to Russia's
reputation, even though they risk getting tossed out of tenth-storey
window or sharing a cold, dank cell with the honorable Navalny.

But the trolls on this site will defend Putin to the hilt, and insist
not only that the war is justified, but that Russia is also on schedule
to achieve victory in accordance with Putin's timetable and expectations.

Miguel
7 hours ago
Of course they defend "little boss"! Most of them live on welfare of
western countries... Which they criticise, naturally

Reagan1984
10 hours ago
It seems that they have been given a directive on how to adjust to the
latest news.

Some of them are saying that the Ukrainian advances are bad thing for
Ukraine because (a) they will exact retribution against friends of
Russia and (b) Zelensky will sell their souls to Wall Street, or some
such thing.

hhm294
11 hours ago
For every incident like this that we hear about, there are surely many
more that go unreported.

Hopefully this is a sign that Putin's end is near.

Mydog Hasfleas
11 hours ago
That’s an excellent point.
Reply

Peter Edwards
11 hours ago
No doubt the Council members will go and smoke by a window on an upper
floor, which we all know is very dangerous in Putinland.

Anne Bourne
12 hours ago
Brave people! But it might be like dominoes and start a wave of
opposition to Putin and his awful war.

Mike M
6 hours ago
I agree, sometimes when people leak their opinions in high places in
government, it is the beginning of the end. While there are certainly
problems with a democracy form of government, I agree with the Russian
leaders that when a politician is in office for far too long, the people
under that regime suffer. Time to till the soil under and plant new
seeds of growth and happiness in Russia. Raise the Stoli glass
comrades, time for change.

Jpnh
10 hours ago
Id love to read the whole statements. Did they actually say anything to
discredit the Russian government? They didn't state any facts (which
Russia could claim are lies), just opinions. Could their lawyers argue
these councilmen were doing their duties as elected officials and
therefore were _crediting_ the Russian government?
Of course, I live in the US where legal arguments actually matter...

Reagan1984
10 hours ago
Yep - It's hard for us to recognise what it must be like to live under
the eye of wrathful Big Brother.

But, based on their apparent assumption that the repetitious telling of
incorrect facts will cause us to eventually accept them, it seems to me
that the trolls also struggle to understand what it is like to live in a
place where the officials are accountable, and where we have access to
Google and government records and other factual data.

Monte
3 hours ago
Well they have to be careful about what they specifically say. The last
group of officials got charged under Russia's new laws that forbids
"discrediting the military" (aka, saying anything that contradicts the
kremlin). This is why they did not specifically bring up the Ukrainian
invasion. Also this is a letter, not a legal motion.

Jon Dough
6 hours ago
Glad to see there are still some in Russia brave enough to say out loud
what many must be thinking. However, they should avoid balconies and
other high places.

Timekeeper
10 hours ago
You think American politics is bad. Try being the opposition in russia.

Putin is known for taking out the oppositiion, manipulating the polls
and making sure their is only one party. if trump was trying to get
elected in russia, he would have disappeared long ago. So here in
America, raise a glass, laugh, and realize, trump can say and do
anything and we will make him pay in front of the whole world, like we
are doing to putin. Russias psuedo elections are going on, its all putin
clones who will win. No opposition.

john nugent
12 hours ago
You can take Putin out of the KGB, but you can't take the KGB out of Putin.

john nugent
12 hours ago
Putin has worn out his welcome.

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