On 3/16/2023 10:27 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 6:50:07 PM UTC-4, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 3/16/2023 11:18 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 3/16/2023 8:44 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:45:13 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>>> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/15/2023 3:36 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/13/2023 3:20 PM, rksh...@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2023 8:16 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2023 6:50 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 3:02:43?PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2023 1:19 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:28:07?PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/2023 11:29 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <pdom0ih64j66amff3...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul S Person <pspe...@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I suppose it's /possible/ that people don't wear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clothing or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have utilities in Texas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know about the first but the news suggests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> utilities are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at best a sometimes thing in Texas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for 96 hours in Feb 2021 as the electricity was rationed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who needed it the most during the 47% shortfall in generation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (45,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MW) versus demand (85,000 MW). And the biennial hurricanes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I first moved to Texas I was shocked at the frequency of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> power outages,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even accounting for the occasional hurricane remnant hitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> College Station.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, we have since caught up with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> William Hyde
>>>>>>>>>>>> We, as in Canada ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ontario, anyway. The problem is familiar, aging infrastructure,
>>>>>>>>>>> no political benefit in being
>>>>>>>>>>> the one to fix it. Because look what we did! Tax Cuts!
>>>>>>>>>>> Windmills!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To be fair, 2023 has been good so far, at least in my area. But
>>>>>>>>>>> an earlier round of
>>>>>>>>>>> tax cuts led to thousands of people being poisoned, seven deaths
>>>>>>>>>>> and quite a few
>>>>>>>>>>> people with permanent disabilities. But that was water, not
>>>>>>>>>>> hydro.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sorry. Life is difficult and constant unlimited
>>>>>>>>>>>> electricity
>>>>>>>>>>>> makes it easier.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have lights and books. The house doesn't get below freezing, or
>>>>>>>>>>> not much. It could be
>>>>>>>>>>> far worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> William Hyde
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Windmills suck in Texas. The blasted things freeze up below 25
>>>>>>>>>> F in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So do texas fossil fuel power plants, apparantly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Natural gas power generating facilities had equipment
>>>>>>>>> freeze up
>>>>>>>>> and faced shortages of fuel"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apparently the important Texans don't believe it ever gets below
>>>>>>>> freezing in Texas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the short summary is that everybody wants it fixed but nobody
>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>> to pay for it. Texas politicicians are as stupid, but not so stupid
>>>>>>> as to
>>>>>>> believe that legislating things makes the cost go away. It will have
>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>> much more frequent before it gets addressed, at which point everyone
>>>>>>> will have
>>>>>>> a meltdown because the cost of electricity will rise dramatically. EVs
>>>>>>> and heat
>>>>>>> pumps are only going to make the problem worse...Texas is used to
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> electricity consumption drop by half or more in the winter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem with winter time electricity consumption in Texas is that
>>>>>> the weather is either moderate or cold or bitterly cold. The forecasts
>>>>>> are worthless a week out so ERCOT must be prepared. It costs money for
>>>>>> power plants to be manned around the clock so no one is at the power
>>>>>> plant if it is offline. Offline = zero income.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Texas is now changing the rules so that if the power plant is available
>>>>>> during emergencies, that power plant will be paid extra money for being
>>>>>> online. This is a departure from Texas's only paying for electricity
>>>>>> output.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The phrase that comes to mind is "Paying for the ability to _have_
>>>>> electricity output." If you aren't willing to pay to keep the
>>>>> facilities that make electricity in working order, you aren't going to
>>>>> have electricity. Seems pretty self-evident to me.
>>>>
>>>> Just out of curiousity, does anyone know if any /other/ State finds it
>>>> necessary to do this? Or is these purely a Texas Republican "thang"?
>>>
>>> I don't _know_ but I suspect it is a "Texas thang". Mostly because
>>> Texas is its own electrical grid. There are three electric grids
>>> covering the US and users in a grid can, in theory at least, get power
>>> from anywhere else in that grid. There is one for the western US, one
>>> for the eastern US, and Texas. So Texas has chosen to isolate itself
>>> and can't draw on outside sources in an emergency.
>> There are five grids in the USA. You forgot Hawaii and Alaska. I do
>> not know if the southern grid in Alaska extends up into the Fairbanks
>> area but I doubt it.
>
> Hawaii has a separate grid for each island. The water depths between
> them, and the distances, make under sea cables impractical.
>
> https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Hawaii#Electricity
>
> In Alaska, the Willow–Healy Intertie connects the Anchorage area grid
> with the Fairbanks area grid. There's a separate grid for the
> Panhandle area. The rest of the state is not networked.
>
> Pt

BTW, you are correct, I should have said there are at least five grids
in the USA.

Thanks,
Lynn