In article <MPG.3aee6145ab7b1019989921@news.eternal-september.org>,
thiswillbounceback@you.com says...
>
> In article <s61hse$lh1$1@dont-email.me>, raj@kundracomputers.co.uk says...
> >
> > On 22/04/2021 11:33, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > > In article <s5pks8$pm7$1@dont-email.me>, raj@kundracomputers.co.uk says...
> > >> On 21/04/2021 17:04, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > >>> In article <s5p3n9$ma5$1@dont-email.me>, NOTsomeone@microsoft.com says...
> > >>>> On 21/04/2021 12:24, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > >>>>> I have this tiny notebook running Windows 7 "Starter". It has a 256GB spinning
> > >>>>> disk (7200rpm) and just 2GB of memory. The Crucial scanner reports that the
> > >>>>> max memory is 2GB, though I've found other machines which could use more than
> > >>>>> their supposed limit. I'd like to give it to someone, but I'm reluctant to
> > >>>>> hand over a machine running something that's full of security holes, so I'd
> > >>>>> like to upgrade it to W10, which still seems to work free.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Why would a machine have a limit of 2GB - what are my chances of getting a 4GB
> > >>>>> stick to work (under the limitations of a 32-bit machine, of course)? Which
> > >>>>> would be the better investment: a 4GB memory card or an SSD (similar sort of
> > >>>>> price!). Opinions greatly valued - it seems a shame to scrap it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> 2GB is enough to get some work done on 32 bit W10. The stated minimum to
> > >>>> run that OS is 1GB.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On a 4GB machine the maximum that 32 bit W10 can see is only about 3.2GB.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Then, there's the graphics. Does the notebook have shared RAM for the
> > >>>> graphics?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> My old Dell C2D machine has shared graphics and 4GB of RAM. All W10 can
> > >>>> see is 2.7GB of the RAM. It actually ran pretty well, although the i7
> > >>>> machine (with 24GB of RAM) I use now is noticeably better.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> An SSD revitalised the old Dell.
> > >>> Thanks for this. Process Explorer reports 2.3 MB (sic) GPU Dedicated Memory,
> > >>> and 2.7 MB GPU Shared Memory. System Information reports 2GB Installed
> > >>> Physical Memory and 1.99GB "available".
> > >>>
> > >>> It's surprisingly useable - now that it's finished looking for, downloading and
> > >>> installing updates! (Atom processor.)
> > >>>
> > >>> I guess what I'd still like to know is whether a manufacturer's stated "Limit"
> > >>> is a real limit, or whether it's just a lack of foresight at the time of what
> > >>> people might try to do with the machine? I don't want to find myself
> > >>> discarding a 4GB card which I couldn't send back (having installed it to try
> > >>> it) and which wouldn't be useful elsewhere.
> > >>>
> > >>> My own guess is that the SSD would make more difference than an extra 1.5
> > >>> (useable) GB of memory on this tiny machine, so thanks for that account.
> > >>>
> > >> It is not limit, but the year it was released in 2008 4GB ram modules
> > >> will be too expansive or rare, so Mfr went with 2GB and no one likes to
> > >> admit that it will run 4GB and loose business.
> > >>
> > >> Take the bottom covers off to see which ram is fitted, my guess PC2-5300
> > >> ish.
> > >>
> > >> I can always lend you to try one :-))
> > > Thank you, Raj - that's most generous. However, Theo (see below) has tracked
> > > down that there is a 2GB limitation in what the processor can address. I can't
> > > imagine what would be the thinking behind that - most likely some "market
> > > segmentation" dodge, I'd think. So that limit is indeed a hard one.
> > >
> > > Much appreciated, nevertheless.
> > >
> > I have been selling laptops since 2001, way before others knew that
> > LAPTOP is next big thing, I vaguely remember having these in stock,
> > adding 4GB modules and selling them at good profit. I am shipping memory
> > to you to try, so you got nothing to loose? All you have to do is take
> > bottom cover and see which ram is installed.
>
> Well that's an offer too generous to refuse. I'll open the thing up as soon as
> I can get it to finish cleaning up after an abortive attempt to get it to
> upgrade to W10 (I just this minute cancelled the "checking you are ready to
> install" (or something similar) screen which had been stuck there for 3 days.
> Now "Setup is cleaning up before it closes" - I hope I don't have another 3
> days to wait.
>
> It never occurred to me to check my now-elderly Dell Venue 8 tablet, which it
> turns out has an Atom processor and 2GB of RAM. It's not quick, but it's quite
> useable.
>
> Once it's done, I'll message you my details. Thanks!

Raj was as good as his word, and the 4G module arrived. The laptop showed
faint signs of life (WiFi led on, gentle fan movement) but the display was
entirely blank and dark, even after a couple of minutes. Tried carefully
reseating the module - same. With the 2GB module replaced, it booted
immediately. So that Atom processor - and so this notebook - does have a hard
2GB limit on memory. I'm surprised it runs at all (currently W7 still).

Talking of that - I keep trying to upgrade it to W10, but it stalls at the
screen "Making sure you're ready to install". I left it for 48 hours at one
point, but it just sits there with spinning dots. I tried starting the Media
Creation Tool as admin, checking if new drivers are available, SFC, but nothing
so far has made any difference. A lot of people online have had the same
experience, but no single solution stands out. It would be a shame to retire
this little jewel of a machine (the case is a rather lovely blue, and it's
physically in perfect condition).

--

Phil, London

On 01/05/2021 in message
<MPG.3af750795fade00a98992e@news.eternal-september.org> Philip Herlihy
wrote:

>Raj was as good as his word, and the 4G module arrived.

He is a scholar and gentleman of the highest order as many of us know from
experience :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Though no-one can go back and make a new start, everyone can start from
now and make a new ending.

Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
>
>
> Talking of that - I keep trying to upgrade it to W10, but it stalls at the
> screen "Making sure you're ready to install". I left it for 48 hours at one
> point, but it just sits there with spinning dots. I tried starting the Media
> Creation Tool as admin, checking if new drivers are available, SFC, but nothing
> so far has made any difference. A lot of people online have had the same
> experience, but no single solution stands out. It would be a shame to retire
> this little jewel of a machine (the case is a rather lovely blue, and it's
> physically in perfect condition).

I’ve got an old Dell Latitude D430 with 2GB RAM running Windows 10 32bit.

In article <s6jhur$11nj$1@gioia.aioe.org>, koopa@troopa.net says...
>
> Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Talking of that - I keep trying to upgrade it to W10, but it stalls at the
> > screen "Making sure you're ready to install". I left it for 48 hours at one
> > point, but it just sits there with spinning dots. I tried starting the Media
> > Creation Tool as admin, checking if new drivers are available, SFC, but nothing
> > so far has made any difference. A lot of people online have had the same
> > experience, but no single solution stands out. It would be a shame to retire
> > this little jewel of a machine (the case is a rather lovely blue, and it's
> > physically in perfect condition).
>
> I?ve got an old Dell Latitude D430 with 2GB RAM running Windows 10 32bit.

Fingers crossed, then! Raj has kindly sent me some suggestions directly - if
anything works, I'll report back.

--

Phil, London

On 01/05/2021 19:23, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <s6jhur$11nj$1@gioia.aioe.org>, koopa@troopa.net says...
>>
>> Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Talking of that - I keep trying to upgrade it to W10, but it stalls at the
>>> screen "Making sure you're ready to install". I left it for 48 hours at one
>>> point, but it just sits there with spinning dots. I tried starting the Media
>>> Creation Tool as admin, checking if new drivers are available, SFC, but nothing
>>> so far has made any difference. A lot of people online have had the same
>>> experience, but no single solution stands out. It would be a shame to retire
>>> this little jewel of a machine (the case is a rather lovely blue, and it's
>>> physically in perfect condition).
>>
>> I?ve got an old Dell Latitude D430 with 2GB RAM running Windows 10 32bit.
>
> Fingers crossed, then! Raj has kindly sent me some suggestions directly - if
> anything works, I'll report back.
>

If you are running 32 bit windows, 2 GB should really not be an issue.

GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> If you are running 32 bit windows, 2 GB should really not be an issue.

Just checked mine to make sure I am running the 32bit version as I haven’t
booted the machine for a few years...

https://imgur.com/52EzqWr

Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
> Raj was as good as his word, and the 4G module arrived. The laptop showed
> faint signs of life (WiFi led on, gentle fan movement) but the display was
> entirely blank and dark, even after a couple of minutes. Tried carefully
> reseating the module - same. With the 2GB module replaced, it booted
> immediately. So that Atom processor - and so this notebook - does have a hard
> 2GB limit on memory. I'm surprised it runs at all (currently W7 still).

I told you so ;-)

> Talking of that - I keep trying to upgrade it to W10, but it stalls at the
> screen "Making sure you're ready to install". I left it for 48 hours at one
> point, but it just sits there with spinning dots. I tried starting the Media
> Creation Tool as admin, checking if new drivers are available, SFC, but nothing
> so far has made any difference. A lot of people online have had the same
> experience, but no single solution stands out. It would be a shame to retire
> this little jewel of a machine (the case is a rather lovely blue, and it's
> physically in perfect condition).

I had a search around for 'N455 Windows 10' and came to the same conclusion.
The trouble with searching is that 'Windows 10' from 2015 is essentially a
different OS from 'Windows 10' in 2021, but the searches can't tell the
difference.

What you could try is running the upgrade process in Windows 7, rather than
trying to install from scratch. I suspect the issues are likely to be
drivers - you know the ones on Win7 work, and I think the installer will
carry on using them if it doesn't have a newer driver in Win10. Whereas the
Win10 install image won't have the drivers and so can't make progress.

Another thought would be to try an older version of Windows 10:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history
because maybe things stopped working at some point. You then may or may not
be able to upgrade to the latest from there.

(For example IIRC they abandoned some Bay Trail Atom tablets, so they were
shipped with Win10 but can't install the latest)

Theo

In article <S5y*zX2iy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
>
> Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
> > Raj was as good as his word, and the 4G module arrived. The laptop showed
> > faint signs of life (WiFi led on, gentle fan movement) but the display was
> > entirely blank and dark, even after a couple of minutes. Tried carefully
> > reseating the module - same. With the 2GB module replaced, it booted
> > immediately. So that Atom processor - and so this notebook - does have a hard
> > 2GB limit on memory. I'm surprised it runs at all (currently W7 still).
>
> I told you so ;-)
>
> > Talking of that - I keep trying to upgrade it to W10, but it stalls at the
> > screen "Making sure you're ready to install". I left it for 48 hours at one
> > point, but it just sits there with spinning dots. I tried starting the Media
> > Creation Tool as admin, checking if new drivers are available, SFC, but nothing
> > so far has made any difference. A lot of people online have had the same
> > experience, but no single solution stands out. It would be a shame to retire
> > this little jewel of a machine (the case is a rather lovely blue, and it's
> > physically in perfect condition).
>
> I had a search around for 'N455 Windows 10' and came to the same conclusion.
> The trouble with searching is that 'Windows 10' from 2015 is essentially a
> different OS from 'Windows 10' in 2021, but the searches can't tell the
> difference.
>
> What you could try is running the upgrade process in Windows 7, rather than
> trying to install from scratch. I suspect the issues are likely to be
> drivers - you know the ones on Win7 work, and I think the installer will
> carry on using them if it doesn't have a newer driver in Win10. Whereas the
> Win10 install image won't have the drivers and so can't make progress.
>
> Another thought would be to try an older version of Windows 10:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history
> because maybe things stopped working at some point. You then may or may not
> be able to upgrade to the latest from there.
>
> (For example IIRC they abandoned some Bay Trail Atom tablets, so they were
> shipped with Win10 but can't install the latest)
>
> Theo

In fact I have been trying to upgrade from within W7. I download the Media
Creation Tool, and pick to the option to upgrade this computer, rather than
create media for another. I'm veering towards trying the latter approach.
What's annoying is that it insists on downloading W10 each time, and then
cleaning it off again after I abort once it has hung.

I'll work through the drivers, including a later BIOS, and have another go, but
I may have to give up.

--

Phil, London

Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
>
> I'll work through the drivers, including a later BIOS, and have another go, but
> I may have to give up.

Create a Windows 10 installation disc and install from that, chances are
that you won’t encounter the freezing problem I had when doing it this way.

You’ll need your Windows 7 product key to activate 10.

Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
> In fact I have been trying to upgrade from within W7. I download the Media
> Creation Tool, and pick to the option to upgrade this computer, rather than
> create media for another. I'm veering towards trying the latter approach.
> What's annoying is that it insists on downloading W10 each time, and then
> cleaning it off again after I abort once it has hung.

In which case I'd try getting hold of the ISOs for the 6-monthly releases of
Windows 10, both 32 and 64 bit, and trying them one by one to see what
installs. Your machine has a CPU from the Pineview family - I found some
chatter say that 64-bit 1809 will work. Microsoft have dropped support for
various Atoms along the way (not yours, that I could see) so it may be that
an older release will install where the current one won't.

Theo

In article <s6mntp$1kp0$1@gioia.aioe.org>, koopa@troopa.net says...
>
> Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'll work through the drivers, including a later BIOS, and have another go, but
> > I may have to give up.
>
> Create a Windows 10 installation disc and install from that, chances are
> that you won?t encounter the freezing problem I had when doing it this way.
>
> You?ll need your Windows 7 product key to activate 10.

Thanks - a good reminder to unearth the key *first*!

--

Phil, London

In article <xal*Flajy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
>
> Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
> > In fact I have been trying to upgrade from within W7. I download the Media
> > Creation Tool, and pick to the option to upgrade this computer, rather than
> > create media for another. I'm veering towards trying the latter approach.
> > What's annoying is that it insists on downloading W10 each time, and then
> > cleaning it off again after I abort once it has hung.
>
> In which case I'd try getting hold of the ISOs for the 6-monthly releases of
> Windows 10, both 32 and 64 bit, and trying them one by one to see what
> installs. Your machine has a CPU from the Pineview family - I found some
> chatter say that 64-bit 1809 will work. Microsoft have dropped support for
> various Atoms along the way (not yours, that I could see) so it may be that
> an older release will install where the current one won't.
>
> Theo

Thanks - interesting ideas. However, the only motivation for upgrading to W10
is to get "up to date" in terms of security, so being stalled at an older
version of W10 just kicks the can down the road for me.

I'll image the thing, then try a few more drastic options, before (I suspect)
giving up! If I costed the time I spent on such adventures I could justify
buying a new one!

--

Phil, London

On 4 May 2021 at 17:10:58 BST, "Philip Herlihy"
<thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:

> In article <xal*Flajy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
>>
>> Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> wrote:
>> > In fact I have been trying to upgrade from within W7. I download the Media
>> > Creation Tool, and pick to the option to upgrade this computer, rather than
>> > create media for another. I'm veering towards trying the latter approach.
>> > What's annoying is that it insists on downloading W10 each time, and then
>> > cleaning it off again after I abort once it has hung.
>>
>> In which case I'd try getting hold of the ISOs for the 6-monthly releases of
>> Windows 10, both 32 and 64 bit, and trying them one by one to see what
>> installs. Your machine has a CPU from the Pineview family - I found some
>> chatter say that 64-bit 1809 will work. Microsoft have dropped support for
>> various Atoms along the way (not yours, that I could see) so it may be that
>> an older release will install where the current one won't.
>>
>> Theo
>
> Thanks - interesting ideas. However, the only motivation for upgrading to W10
> is to get "up to date" in terms of security, so being stalled at an older
> version of W10 just kicks the can down the road for me.

If it is stalled, time to move to another OS on that hardware then.

> I'll image the thing, then try a few more drastic options, before (I suspect)
> giving up! If I costed the time I spent on such adventures I could justify
> buying a new one!

"Time wasted having fun is not wasted" but on the other hand if it's not
fun...

Cheers - Jaimie
--
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or
fattening.
- Alexander Woollcott

On 05/05/2021 10:54, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

> If it is stalled, time to move to another OS on that hardware then.
>

I still have a Dell Inspiron Mini 910, bought in 2008.

This is a very small notebook with an Atom CPU, 1GB RAM and 8GB SSD. It
runs really quite nicely with Ubuntu linux. It's quite quick to boot,
and applications are quite snappy. I'm obviously not attempting any
heavy video editing on it.

From a practical point of view, the applications it runs are easy
enough to get the hang of for someone used to Windows. The OS graphical
user interface is slightly different to windows, but it's again easy
enough to get the hang of.

I suggests that Philip checks out some lightweight versions of linux to
install on his machine, rather than struggling with windows.

I could upgrade the Dell, with more RAM and a bigger SSD, but I can't
see any sense in spending money on a machine that sells on ebay for £20-30.

GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.com> wrote:
> On 05/05/2021 10:54, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
>
> > If it is stalled, time to move to another OS on that hardware then.
> >
>
> I still have a Dell Inspiron Mini 910, bought in 2008.

I recently recycled one of those.

> This is a very small notebook with an Atom CPU, 1GB RAM and 8GB SSD. It
> runs really quite nicely with Ubuntu linux. It's quite quick to boot,
> and applications are quite snappy. I'm obviously not attempting any
> heavy video editing on it.

It was fine under Ubuntu (Netbook Remix, originally). It struggled with
browsers, and I think there was some problem with video codecs that made
that slow. But if you only have a handful of tabs open it was OK.
> I could upgrade the Dell, with more RAM and a bigger SSD, but I can't
> see any sense in spending money on a machine that sells on ebay for £20-30.

On mine the battery died, and the aftermarket batteries didn't work properly
(BIOS wasn't happy with them). Plus it has a PATA mini-card SSD, so
replacement SSDs were rather pricey (I ended up removing the SSD and booting
it off a mini USB thumb drive). The 2GB RAM stick was standard DDR2 SODIMM
IIRC.

It was OK, but today outclassed in every way. I couldn't think of any use
I could make of it, especially without a good battery.

But if I had a 'customer' for it, I'd go for a lightweight Linux like
Lubuntu.

Theo

On 05/05/2021 11:21, GB wrote:

> I suggests that Philip checks out some lightweight versions of linux to
> install on his machine, rather than struggling with windows.

The problem is that whoever he gives it to, that person will require
eventual support from someone that won't know Linux. Not that it's
problematic - but it's a fear ....

Pass it down as it as a family heirloom for the "retro office" craze
that will surely succeed "retro gaming"?

I've got an old Epson MX-80 dot matrix printer sheltering somewhere...
the screaming pins, for 30 years they've been asleep :)

--
Adrian C

In article <ifhknbFmti2U1@mid.individual.net>, email@here.invalid says...
>
> On 05/05/2021 11:21, GB wrote:
>
> > I suggests that Philip checks out some lightweight versions of linux to
> > install on his machine, rather than struggling with windows.
>
> The problem is that whoever he gives it to, that person will require
> eventual support from someone that won't know Linux. Not that it's
> problematic - but it's a fear ....
>
>
> Pass it down as it as a family heirloom for the "retro office" craze
> that will surely succeed "retro gaming"?
>
> I've got an old Epson MX-80 dot matrix printer sheltering somewhere...
> the screaming pins, for 30 years they've been asleep :)

I'm still hoarding a machine which runs Windows 98...

--

Phil, London

On 06/05/2021 11:34, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <ifhknbFmti2U1@mid.individual.net>, email@here.invalid says...
>>
>> On 05/05/2021 11:21, GB wrote:
>>
>>> I suggests that Philip checks out some lightweight versions of linux to
>>> install on his machine, rather than struggling with windows.
>>
>> The problem is that whoever he gives it to, that person will require
>> eventual support from someone that won't know Linux. Not that it's
>> problematic - but it's a fear ....
>>
>>
>> Pass it down as it as a family heirloom for the "retro office" craze
>> that will surely succeed "retro gaming"?
>>
>> I've got an old Epson MX-80 dot matrix printer sheltering somewhere...
>> the screaming pins, for 30 years they've been asleep :)
>
> I'm still hoarding a machine which runs Windows 98...
>

Windows? I still have a Compaq 286 luggable.