Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 21:49:16 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> This triggers a different thought in my mind: bogie tenders. As far as I
>> recall, UK tenders never/seldom had bogies, but the larger tenders in other
>> countries routinely had bogies. Is this correct?
>
> It's not correct that UK tenders never had bogies. It is correct that they
> seldom had bogies. One of the most notable exceptions is the "water cart"
> bogie 8-wheel tenders used on Drummond's LSWR T9 class, so that it could run
> longer trips without any risk of getting low on water.
>
The LSWR used them on a couple of classes designed by Dugald Drummond
their inside bearing design giving them quite a distinctive look and they
were known by the name Watercart tenders, some of the later S15 and Lord
Nelson locos also had bogie tenders but with conventional looking bogies.

GH

On Mon, 03 Jul 2023 09:48:02 +0100
Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>replenish supplies en route on non stop runs[1][2]. The Southern's
>constituents were slightly unusual in having few lengthy runs where water
>capacity was an issue at all, so it didn't use water troughs. And hence it
>did use higher capacity tenders where necessary.

I suspect water troughs + 3rd rail wouldn't end well.

According to Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk>:
>ISTR asking a similar question some time ago, but if I did I don’t remember
>the answer! I note that the Big Boy’s tender seems to have a two-axle
>bogie in front of 4 more fixed axles. The following water tanks have a
>typical dual bogie configuration.

A 2022 article in Trains magazine says Big Boy is currently using a
tender borrowed from another engine which had already been converted
to oil firing. At some point they will convert the original tender to
oil and return it to service so the current tender can be returned to
its own engine.

We usually call tenders coal cars, although the Trains magazine
article calls it a tender. I suppose "oil car" sounds a bit off.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Jul 2023 09:48:02 +0100
> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> replenish supplies en route on non stop runs[1][2]. The Southern's
>> constituents were slightly unusual in having few lengthy runs where water
>> capacity was an issue at all, so it didn't use water troughs. And hence it
>> did use higher capacity tenders where necessary.
>
> I suspect water troughs + 3rd rail wouldn't end well.
>
>
>

Would Southern third rail have extended beyond the range of its locos in
the steam era?
Portsmouth and Brighton were about the furthest at the end of the 1930’s
and electrics generally replaced passenger steam on those routes . The same
happened on the Kent lines in the 1950’s.
That would leave the former LSWR routes with third rail only reaching
around the Aldershot area
so if the desire had been there troughs could maybe have been installed
somewhere beyond Basingstoke if there were suitable level bits.
But with all trains stopping* at either Southampton or Salisbury there was
no real need.

I wonder if the sometimes violently spectacular overspray that could
occur when a tender was overfilled ever caused problems on the DC lines at
Bushey on the route out of Euston where the 4th rail route adjoined the
troughs on the main lines.

* The short lived Devon Belle Pullman was advertised as Non Stop to
Sidmouth Junction
but in reality stopped at Wilton a mile or so West of Salisbury Shed for a
Loco change.

GH

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 19:45:43 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>:
>>>>>> Did locomotives in the UK ever have mechanical stokers or were they
>>>>>> not big enough to need them?
>>>>>>
>>>>> One or more 9Fs apparently -
>>>>> https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/9f-92000-92250-2-10-0-br-standard-class-9/
>>>>
>>>> Ah, that's Evening Star. If I ever get back to York I'll have to take a look.
>>>>
>>> Wonkypaedia says-
>>> "Locomotive numbers 92165–92167 were built with a mechanical
>>> stoker..." (so just three).
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BR_Standard_Class_9F
>>> which excludes Evening Star 92220.
>>> The article suggests that only locomotives of the size used in North
>>> America were big enough to exceed the amount of coal that a skilled
>>> fireman could supply.
>>>
>>
>> This triggers a different thought in my mind: bogie tenders. As far as I
>> recall, UK tenders never/seldom had bogies, but the larger tenders in other
>> countries routinely had bogies. Is this correct?
>
> ISTR asking a similar question some time ago, but if I did I don’t remember
> the answer! I note that the Big Boy’s tender seems to have a two-axle
> bogie in front of 4 more fixed axles. The following water tanks have a
> typical dual bogie configuration.
>
> Sam
>
Having an HO version of the smaller Challenger Loco but which uses the same
design I learnt that type became known as a Centipede Tender, with lots of
bearing surfaces to lubricate relying on a man going around occasionally
removing corks etc and pouring a dollop of oil from a can like was done in
the UK to keep things moving wasn’t going to work so they had mechanical
lubricators that on coal burners was powered by being connected to the
mechanical stoker.

GH

It appears that Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> said:
>I wonder if the sometimes violently spectacular overspray that could
>occur when a tender was overfilled ever caused problems on the DC lines at
>Bushey on the route out of Euston where the 4th rail route adjoined the
>troughs on the main lines.

Given that it rains in the UK, I hope not.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On 04/07/2023 02:40, John Levine wrote:
> It appears that Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> said:
>> I wonder if the sometimes violently spectacular overspray that could
>> occur when a tender was overfilled ever caused problems on the DC lines at
>> Bushey on the route out of Euston where the 4th rail route adjoined the
>> troughs on the main lines.
>
> Given that it rains in the UK, I hope not.
>
>
>

Ehh, it rains in the UK? Are you sure?

--
Colin

On 02/07/2023 20:45, John Levine wrote:
> According to Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>:
>>> Did locomotives in the UK ever have mechanical stokers or were they
>>> not big enough to need them?
>>>
>> One or more 9Fs apparently -
>> https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/9f-92000-92250-2-10-0-br-standard-class-9/
>
> Ah, that's Evening Star. If I ever get back to York I'll have to take a look.
>

Not aware that Evening Star ever had a mechanical stoker. Certainly
didn't the last time (only time) I fired her.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <u81eqs$4t1q$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:36 on Tue, 4 Jul
2023, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>On 04/07/2023 02:40, John Levine wrote:
>> It appears that Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> said:

>>> I wonder if the sometimes violently spectacular overspray that could
>>> occur when a tender was overfilled ever caused problems on the DC lines at
>>> Bushey on the route out of Euston where the 4th rail route adjoined the
>>> troughs on the main lines.

>> Given that it rains in the UK, I hope not.
>
>Ehh, it rains in the UK? Are you sure?

Wimbledon fortnight, and it always rains; and it has (the BBC
commentator earlier today was sheltering under an umbrella).
--
Roland Perry

On 04/07/2023 18:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u81eqs$4t1q$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:36 on Tue, 4 Jul
> 2023, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 04/07/2023 02:40, John Levine wrote:
>>> It appears that Marland  <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> said:
>
>>>> I wonder if the  sometimes violently spectacular  overspray that could
>>>> occur when a tender was overfilled ever caused problems on the DC
>>>> lines at
>>>> Bushey on the route out of Euston where the 4th rail route adjoined the
>>>> troughs on the main lines.
>
>>>  Given that it rains in the UK, I hope not.
>>
>> Ehh, it rains in the UK? Are you sure?
>
> Wimbledon fortnight, and it always rains; and it has (the BBC
> commentator earlier today was sheltering under an umbrella).

Followed by the school summer holidays when it also always rains.

The UK summer is over.

On 05.07.23 09:32, Coffee wrote:
> On 04/07/2023 18:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u81eqs$4t1q$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:36 on Tue, 4 Jul
>> 2023, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 04/07/2023 02:40, John Levine wrote:
>>>> It appears that Marland  <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> said:
>>
>>>>> I wonder if the  sometimes violently spectacular  overspray that could
>>>>> occur when a tender was overfilled ever caused problems on the DC
>>>>> lines at
>>>>> Bushey on the route out of Euston where the 4th rail route adjoined
>>>>> the
>>>>> troughs on the main lines.
>>
>>>>  Given that it rains in the UK, I hope not.
>>>
>>> Ehh, it rains in the UK? Are you sure?
>>
>> Wimbledon fortnight, and it always rains; and it has (the BBC
>> commentator earlier today was sheltering under an umbrella).
>
> Followed by the school summer holidays when it also always rains.
>
> The UK summer is over.

I have noticed over the years that there is a persistent cultural blind
spot when it comes to UK weather patterns. People have a preconceived
idea of what the weather patterns are, that are not reflective of the
actual weather patterns. August is always a wet month. September is a
warm sunny month. Early October is warm. These features happen every
year. Every year, when they happen, people act surprised as if this has
never happened before and it is somehow remarkable or unusual.

Robin

On 05/07/2023 10:02, Bob wrote:
> On 05.07.23 09:32, Coffee wrote:
>> On 04/07/2023 18:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u81eqs$4t1q$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:45:36 on Tue, 4 Jul
>>> 2023, ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 04/07/2023 02:40, John Levine wrote:
>>>>> It appears that Marland  <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> said:
>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if the  sometimes violently spectacular  overspray that
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> occur when a tender was overfilled ever caused problems on the DC
>>>>>> lines at
>>>>>> Bushey on the route out of Euston where the 4th rail route
>>>>>> adjoined the
>>>>>> troughs on the main lines.
>>>
>>>>>  Given that it rains in the UK, I hope not.
>>>>
>>>> Ehh, it rains in the UK? Are you sure?
>>>
>>> Wimbledon fortnight, and it always rains; and it has (the BBC
>>> commentator earlier today was sheltering under an umbrella).
>>
>> Followed by the school summer holidays when it also always rains.
>>
>> The UK summer is over.
>
> I have noticed over the years that there is a persistent cultural blind
> spot when it comes to UK weather patterns. People have a preconceived
> idea of what the weather patterns are, that are not reflective of the
> actual weather patterns. August is always a wet month. September is a
> warm sunny month. Early October is warm. These features happen every
> year. Every year, when they happen, people act surprised as if this has
> never happened before and it is somehow remarkable or unusual.
>
> Robin

Up here in the "far north" it is noted that the letters AU start both
August and autumn ....

--
Colin