On 07/03/2022 09:08 pm, charles wrote:

> JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> Tweed wrote:
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>>>>> Yep. "Local news" based 100+ miles away is not of much use!
>
>>>> Quite common, we are over a hundred miles from Glasgow and Shetland is
>>>> much further away.
>
>> It happens in England too.
>
>> All Meridian news now comes from Southampton, even for south Essex.
>
>>> I‘ve always been surprised at how poorly served the non central belt
>>> areas of Scotland are. I think last time I looked at how much
>>> programming BBC radio Shetland had it was an hour or two per day, the
>>> rest being from Glasgow.
>
>> Isn't BBC Alba aimed mainly at the fringe areas?
>
> They don't speak Gaelic in Shetland = but Edinburgh has both Primary &
> Secondary Gselic schools.

You surprise me.

On 07/03/2022 09:11 pm, Jeff Layman wrote:

> On 07/03/2022 20:16, JNugent wrote:
>> On 07/03/2022 06:32 pm, Tweed wrote:
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>>>>> Yep. "Local news" based 100+ miles away is not of much use!
>
>>>> Quite common, we are over a hundred miles from Glasgow and Shetland is
>>>> much further away.
>
>> It happens in England too.
>
>> All Meridian news now comes from Southampton, even for south Essex.

> From
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maidstone_Studios#Independent_ownership>:

> "The Meridian newsgathering operation returned to Maidstone Studios in
> 2004, though the studio for the programme moved to Meridian's new base
> at Whiteley in Hampshire. "

But when it started, it promised newsgathering and studio transmission
at and from Southampton, Newbury and Maidstone.

They prised the franchise out of the hands of TVS on a false prospectus
which included that news offer plus TVS-style network production of
other programmes. As soon as Granada made a bid for the company, they
sold up.

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:05:38 +0000, JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
>>> They don't speak Gaelic in Shetland = but Edinburgh has both Primary &
>>> Secondary Gselic schools.
>>
>> You surprise me.
>
> I had heard that more people speak Gaelic in Glasgow and Edinburgh
> than in the highlands and islands, but wondered how many are true
> native speakers who have it as their first language, and how many are
> historical enthusiasts learning it academically to preserve it.
>
> Rod.
>

If you look at the maps Scots Gaelic is spoken mainly in the north west.
I’m surprised there isn’t a regional news operation that covers at least
the north east, with Orkney and Shetland, perhaps centred on Aberdeen. When
I was in Lerwick Glasgow seemed a very long way away, and no more relevant
than London.

On 07/03/2022 08:43, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 06/03/2022 19:22, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> For some reason the BBC South and South-East local news this weekend
>> are sharing the same programme. I assume the presenters, including
>> those for the weather, are from the South-East as I don't recognise
>> them or the set (Tunbridge Wells?).
>>
>>
> It's happened a few times. It might be Covid related staff shortages,
> or more likely the engineering work that's been happening at
> Southampton recent months to convert to HD.
>
As last night's show had for the first time ever fancy animated
captions, and even though on SD, far better picture quality, we can
probably conclude that they transferred over to their news HD studio
system over weekend

On 08/03/2022 07:54, Tweed wrote:
> If you look at the maps Scots Gaelic is spoken mainly in the north west.
> I’m surprised there isn’t a regional news operation that covers at least
> the north east, with Orkney and Shetland, perhaps centred on Aberdeen. When
> I was in Lerwick Glasgow seemed a very long way away, and no more relevant
> than London.

People in Caithness were unhappy when Inverness based Highland Council
imposed bilingual roadsigns on them and Gaelic schools.

Many millions have been spent on bilingual roadsign, they claim that the
signs are only changed if they "word out" and needing changing but that
is a lie. A whole battalion of people descend on the area changing all
the signs.

Even some Gaelic speakers have objected to the waste - one reported a
short English name being replaced by a very long Gaelic one which
resulted a large expanse of reflectivity that dazzled drivers. They
changed one leaving the new sign projecting into a car park so someone
broke the rear window of a motorhome on it!

I have never heard a 'normal' person use the Gaelic name for this town.

On 08/03/2022 07:46, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> Agreed, and it seems the legality of watching things without a licence
> depends partly on whether or not they're described as "live", even
> though the meaning of the word appears to have changed over the years.
> The difference between "legal" and "not legal" can sometimes depend
> simply on whose machinery is playing back a recording. I'm sure this
> does nothing to reduce any confusion about a matter that some already
> find confusing.

I thought the legal definition depend on whether the person is watching
a live broadcast, it does not matter if the programme content is recorded.

On 08/03/2022 07:34, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> I had heard that more people speak Gaelic in Glasgow and Edinburgh
> than in the highlands and islands, but wondered how many are true
> native speakers who have it as their first language, and how many are
> historical enthusiasts learning it academically to preserve it.

That was said when Radio nan Gaidheal opened up from Blackhill. Though
how many actually speak and understand Gaelic is debatable, many tick
the box to indicate they speak Gaelic when their Gaelic does not go much
further than "Slàinte mhath". It is a political thing.

On 07/03/2022 22:21, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 07/03/2022 20:42, Scott wrote:
>
>>
>> Maybe in these days live meant not mimed.
>
> I generally interpret "live" as meaning unedited.

What dictionary agrees with you?

Scott wrote:

> Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
>> John Hall wrote:
>>
>>> What really annoys me is when TV shows a concert and there's "Live" in
>>> the title, when it's actually a recording of the event.
>>
>> Agreed, and it seems the legality of watching things without a licence
>> depends partly on whether or not they're described as "live"
>
> I thought this had changed when a licence became necessary to watch
> iPlayer?

The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 doesn't use the word
"live" but the phrase "at the same time (or virtually the same time)"

<https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9/made>

In message <t060hf$7hn$1@dont-email.me>, Indy Jess John
<bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> writes
>On 07/03/2022 20:42, Scott wrote:
>
>>
>> Maybe in these days live meant not mimed.
>
>I generally interpret "live" as meaning unedited.
>
>Jim
>

That's how media companies generally seem to use it these days, but I
don't think that coincides with what most of the public (myself
included) think the word means.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On 07/03/2022 18:09, John Hall wrote:
> In message <eehc2hljv5jvbsqd61jl2t348q4760k27t@4ax.com>, Scott
> <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes
>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 14:36:08 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>
>>> NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I presume all of it is pre-recorded, apart from if there is a live
>>>> satellite
>>>> link to an on-the-spot reporter at a major story, though I suppose
>>>> there's
>>>
>>> It could hardly be recorded after transmitting it!  Please drop the
>>> pre- :-)
>>
>> I thought that once until I thought it through.  I agree with Indy.
>>
>> 'Recorded' could be recorded off-air for legal and archive purposes (I
>> believe radio stations have an Ofcom obligation to do this - I expect
>> TV is the same).  'Pre-recorded' is completely different, meaning that
>> the whole programme is made in advance - maybe far in advance.
>
> What really annoys me is when TV shows a concert and there's "Live" in
> the title, when it's actually a recording of the event.

Usage the OED recognises from the 1940s on:

"Of a recording, film, etc.: taken from or made at a live performance
rather than in a studio."

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article <t07240$jgc$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:05:38 +0000, JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> They don't speak Gaelic in Shetland = but Edinburgh has both Primary
> >>> & Secondary Gselic schools.
> >>
> >> You surprise me.
> >
> > I had heard that more people speak Gaelic in Glasgow and Edinburgh than
> > in the highlands and islands, but wondered how many are true native
> > speakers who have it as their first language, and how many are
> > historical enthusiasts learning it academically to preserve it.
> >
> > Rod.
> >

> If you look at the maps Scots Gaelic is spoken mainly in the north west.
> I‘m surprised there isn‘t a regional news operation that covers at least
> the north east, with Orkney and Shetland, perhaps centred on Aberdeen.
> When I was in Lerwick Glasgow seemed a very long way away, and no more
> relevant than London.

Radio nan Gaedheil from Inverness does this and hs been doing so for a
great many years - since 1985 in fact

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 08/03/2022 10:30, John Hall wrote:
>
> In message <t060hf$7hn$1@dont-email.me>, Indy Jess John
>>
>> I generally interpret "live" as meaning unedited.
>
> That's how media companies generally seem to use it these days, but I
> don't think that coincides with what most of the public (myself
> included) think the word means.

"This is a live broadcast <click> a live broadcast <click> a live
broadcast <click> a live broadcast ..."

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Roderick Stewart wrote:

> The meaning of the word "live" seems to have drifted somewhat over the
> years from "as it's happening" to "as the playback of a recording is
> happening". I don't see what real practical difference it makes
> whether it's a broadcaster's recording or a streaming service's
> recording or your own local recording that's being played back, but
> apparently they can be legally different.

You could be watching an old programme from youtube when, by coincidence, the
same programme is being repeated on broadcast TV ... then you'd need a licence.

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <t07240$jgc$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:05:38 +0000, JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> They don't speak Gaelic in Shetland = but Edinburgh has both Primary
>>>>> & Secondary Gselic schools.
>>>>
>>>> You surprise me.
>>>
>>> I had heard that more people speak Gaelic in Glasgow and Edinburgh than
>>> in the highlands and islands, but wondered how many are true native
>>> speakers who have it as their first language, and how many are
>>> historical enthusiasts learning it academically to preserve it.
>>>
>>> Rod.
>>>
>
>> If you look at the maps Scots Gaelic is spoken mainly in the north west.
>> I‘m surprised there isn‘t a regional news operation that covers at least
>> the north east, with Orkney and Shetland, perhaps centred on Aberdeen.
>> When I was in Lerwick Glasgow seemed a very long way away, and no more
>> relevant than London.
>
> Radio nan Gaedheil from Inverness does this and hs been doing so for a
> great many years - since 1985 in fact
>

In English? When I watched the evening TV news in Lerwick the slot at 1830
came from Glasgow. Nothing regional about it.

"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:j8ooooF3k3gU1@mid.individual.net...
> Scott wrote:
>
>> Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>
>>> John Hall wrote:
>>>
>>>> What really annoys me is when TV shows a concert and there's "Live" in
>>>> the title, when it's actually a recording of the event.
>>>
>>> Agreed, and it seems the legality of watching things without a licence
>>> depends partly on whether or not they're described as "live"
>>
>> I thought this had changed when a licence became necessary to watch
>> iPlayer?
>
> The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 doesn't use the
> word "live" but the phrase "at the same time (or virtually the same time)"
>
> <https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9/made>

So do you still not need a licence if you start watching a programme on
iPlayer after it has finished being broadcast? I thought that was the
loophole which had been closed, so you now need a licence to watch on a
catchup site any programme that is normally broadcast by
terrestrial/satellite - so for iPlayer, ITV.com. five.tv etc.

On 08/03/2022 11:11, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> My earliest understanding is that if what you were watching on the
> screen was taking place at the same time that you were watching it
> (not counting the couple of milliseconds or so for the signal to reach
> you from the broadcasters) then it was live.

I think it is more likely that it means you are watching at the same
time that is transmitted, it could be a playout of something recorded
many years ago but "live" as far as the licence T&C.

In article <t07iak$gbi$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:
> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> > In article <t07240$jgc$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:05:38 +0000, JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> They don't speak Gaelic in Shetland = but Edinburgh has both
> >>>>> Primary & Secondary Gselic schools.
> >>>>
> >>>> You surprise me.
> >>>
> >>> I had heard that more people speak Gaelic in Glasgow and Edinburgh
> >>> than in the highlands and islands, but wondered how many are true
> >>> native speakers who have it as their first language, and how many are
> >>> historical enthusiasts learning it academically to preserve it.
> >>>
> >>> Rod.
> >>>
> >
> >> If you look at the maps Scots Gaelic is spoken mainly in the north
> >> west. I‘m surprised there isn‘t a regional news operation that covers
> >> at least the north east, with Orkney and Shetland, perhaps centred on
> >> Aberdeen. When I was in Lerwick Glasgow seemed a very long way away,
> >> and no more relevant than London.
> >
> > Radio nan Gaedheil from Inverness does this and hs been doing so for a
> > great many years - since 1985 in fact
> >

> In English? When I watched the evening TV news in Lerwick the slot at
> 1830 came from Glasgow. Nothing regional about it.

You don't normally 'watch' radio/ If you want Gaelic tv then BBC Alba would
be the sensible choice. .

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 08/03/2022 12:31, Tweed wrote:
> In English? When I watched the evening TV news in Lerwick the slot at 1830
> came from Glasgow. Nothing regional about it.
>

The clue is in the name of the service *RADIO* nan Gaidheal.

The TV news is not split into any more regions apart from Scotland.

NY wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 doesn't use the
>> word "live" but the phrase "at the same time (or virtually the same time)"
>>
>> <https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9/made>
>
> So do you still not need a licence if you start watching a programme on iPlayer
> after it has finished being broadcast?

You need a licence for all online content provided by the BBC, so the above
regulation means you're OK to watch non-BBC content online provided it's not at
the same time it's being broadcast.

> I thought that was the loophole which had been closed, so you now need a
> licence to watch on a catchup site any programme that is normally broadcast
> by terrestrial/satellite - so for iPlayer, ITV.com. five.tv etc.
Only iPlayer AFAIK

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <t07iak$gbi$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <t07240$jgc$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 00:05:38 +0000, JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> They don't speak Gaelic in Shetland = but Edinburgh has both
>>>>>>> Primary & Secondary Gselic schools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You surprise me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had heard that more people speak Gaelic in Glasgow and Edinburgh
>>>>> than in the highlands and islands, but wondered how many are true
>>>>> native speakers who have it as their first language, and how many are
>>>>> historical enthusiasts learning it academically to preserve it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rod.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> If you look at the maps Scots Gaelic is spoken mainly in the north
>>>> west. I‘m surprised there isn‘t a regional news operation that covers
>>>> at least the north east, with Orkney and Shetland, perhaps centred on
>>>> Aberdeen. When I was in Lerwick Glasgow seemed a very long way away,
>>>> and no more relevant than London.
>>>
>>> Radio nan Gaedheil from Inverness does this and hs been doing so for a
>>> great many years - since 1985 in fact
>>>
>
>> In English? When I watched the evening TV news in Lerwick the slot at
>> 1830 came from Glasgow. Nothing regional about it.
>
> You don't normally 'watch' radio/ If you want Gaelic tv then BBC Alba would
> be the sensible choice. .
>

No not Gaelic. I was moaning about the lack of English speaking regional
coverage in either TV or radio in the non central belt areas of Scotland.

Andy Burns wrote:

> You need a licence for all online content provided by the BBC

Not sure how they differentiate between video content on the BBC News website
and on the iPlayer website?

On 08/03/2022 10:30, John Hall wrote:
> In message<t060hf$7hn$1@dont-email.me>, Indy Jess John
> <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> writes
>> On 07/03/2022 20:42, Scott wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Maybe in these days live meant not mimed.
>>
>> I generally interpret "live" as meaning unedited.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
> That's how media companies generally seem to use it these days, but I
> don't think that coincides with what most of the public (myself
> included) think the word means.

If a word is regularly used in a way that is different from the way the
word is defined in the dictionary, then some alternative meaning has to
be invented to make sense of it.

Jim

On 08/03/2022 10:16, Andy Burns wrote:

> The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 doesn't use the word
> "live" but the phrase "at the same time (or virtually the same time)"
>
> <https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9/made>

That Act must have been replaced or updated because it says:
6.—(1) No fee shall be payable for a TV licence of a type referred to in
the first or second entry in column 1 of the table in Schedule 1 where—
(a) the licence is issued to a person aged 75 years or more or to a
person who will attain thatage in the calendar month in which the
licence is issued;

I found a 2016 amendment which still includes free licences for 75 or
over but restricts the qualification to "the licence is issued to a
person who has attained the age of 75 before 1st September 2016" which
means those born in the summer of 1941 or earlier.

Jim

Indy Jess John wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 doesn't use the word
>> "live" but the phrase "at the same time (or virtually the same time)"
>>
>> <https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9/made>
>
> That Act must have been replaced or updated

I didn't particularly mean to link to the "as made" version, here's the up to
date one, but that part essentially says the same thing

<https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/regulation/9>

> because it says:
> 6.—(1) No fee shall be payable for a TV licence of a type referred to in the
> first or second entry in column 1 of the table in Schedule 1 where—
> (a) the licence is issued to a person aged 75 years or more or to a person who
> will attain thatage in the calendar month in which the licence is issued;
>
> I found a 2016 amendment which still includes free licences for 75 or over but
> restricts the qualification to "the licence is issued to a person who has
> attained the age of 75 before 1st September 2016" which means those born in the
> summer of 1941 or earlier.

Yes, there are similar amendments each year from 2017, 18 and 19. Cant see the
change where free licences were withdrawn though