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aus+uk / uk.rec.sheds / Computer query

SubjectAuthor
* Computer queryBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
+* Computer queryJohn Williamson
|`* Computer queryBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
| `- Computer queryJohn Williamson
`* Computer queryhubops
 +* Computer queryBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
 |`- Computer queryChris Elvidge
 `* Computer queryPancho
  `* Computer queryJohn Williamson
   +- Computer queryhubops
   +* Computer queryTone
   |`- Computer queryBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
   `- Computer queryBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)

1
Computer query

<t4g6t0$u6o$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:16:18 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 08:16 UTC

I know there are some folk here who dabble with computers, so I thought I'd
ask this.
A machine has been working for some years, yes you got the odd crash but
nothing our of the ordinary with Windoze.
However in the last few days its resetting almost every time a ram stick is
plugged or unplugged from the sockets. I tried a powered hub with switches
and it still doing it.
About 70 percent of the time apparently.
It sounds a bit like a hardware issue, could it be failing ram, dodgy
connections inside or perhaps a corrupted driver somewhere?
Its Windoze 7 home, and I have a similar spec machine at home with 7 pro on
it with no issues. This one has an ssd but more memory, but apart from that
the processor is the same, and the graphics card. The mothherboard is
slightly newer on mine, but apart from that...
Any bright ideas? If I ask on a computer specific group I get complicated
diagnostics to do outside windoze, and of course, it will then not speak so
I can't do it.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Re: Computer query

<jd1qh4F7qacU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: johnwill...@btinternet.com (John Williamson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 10:47:15 +0100
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 by: John Williamson - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:47 UTC

Why do you keep adding and removing RAM? Normally, it is fitted once and
left in place for the life of the Machine. It is also sensitive to
static, so can be damaged by touching it while it is not fitted,
esopceially if you are wearing synthetic cloth or using a synthetic
carpet and not anti static measures.

If you are using USB sticks to add memory to a machine that is short on
motherboard based memory, the sticks have a limited life due to them
actually being flash memory.

Crashing when using USB sticks to transfer files can be caused by
anything from a defective stick to a corrupted driver via a faulty
socket on the computer. Faulty sticks will tend to cause problems on all
computers, while faulty drivers and sockets will cause problems on all
memory sticks. One favourite fault I've seen is an intermittent bad
joint where the socket is mounted on the motherboard. A magnifying glass
is often needed to see the crack even with young eyes...

On 29/04/2022 09:16, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> I know there are some folk here who dabble with computers, so I thought I'd
> ask this.
> A machine has been working for some years, yes you got the odd crash but
> nothing our of the ordinary with Windoze.
> However in the last few days its resetting almost every time a ram stick is
> plugged or unplugged from the sockets. I tried a powered hub with switches
> and it still doing it.
> About 70 percent of the time apparently.
> It sounds a bit like a hardware issue, could it be failing ram, dodgy
> connections inside or perhaps a corrupted driver somewhere?
> Its Windoze 7 home, and I have a similar spec machine at home with 7 pro on
> it with no issues. This one has an ssd but more memory, but apart from that
> the processor is the same, and the graphics card. The mothherboard is
> slightly newer on mine, but apart from that...
> Any bright ideas? If I ask on a computer specific group I get complicated
> diagnostics to do outside windoze, and of course, it will then not speak so
> I can't do it.
> Brian
>

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Re: Computer query

<29rn6h50orbq92h1b1ck6e41np5mu86drc@4ax.com>

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From: hub...@ccanoemail.ca
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Message-ID: <29rn6h50orbq92h1b1ck6e41np5mu86drc@4ax.com>
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 by: hub...@ccanoemail.ca - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:54 UTC

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:16:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>I know there are some folk here who dabble with computers, so I thought I'd
>ask this.
> A machine has been working for some years, yes you got the odd crash but
>nothing our of the ordinary with Windoze.
>However in the last few days its resetting almost every time a ram stick is
>plugged or unplugged from the sockets. I tried a powered hub with switches
>and it still doing it.
> About 70 percent of the time apparently.
> It sounds a bit like a hardware issue, could it be failing ram, dodgy
>connections inside or perhaps a corrupted driver somewhere?
> Its Windoze 7 home, and I have a similar spec machine at home with 7 pro on
>it with no issues. This one has an ssd but more memory, but apart from that
>the processor is the same, and the graphics card. The mothherboard is
>slightly newer on mine, but apart from that...
> Any bright ideas? If I ask on a computer specific group I get complicated
>diagnostics to do outside windoze, and of course, it will then not speak so
>I can't do it.
> Brian

Is the computer clock OK ? - I'm wondering if the little battery
is in need of replacing ? Just a thought .. a Win 7 era computer
would be pushing 15 years old ...

Do you shut it off daily ? or just let it "sleep" ?
John T.

Re: Computer query

<t4gv0a$c1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 16:07:49 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:07 UTC

We have to turn it off as the room is notours. I think though when its been
on for a while the system is normally fine and boots from the right things,
but I would need to find a pair of eyes to go into the bios I suppose. Where
is the battery on these gigabyte small motherboards. Its the one which used
three ram slots which I'm told were quite rare, mine has four and its a
similar age, but with 8 gigs.

I'd have thought that as it can see the drives being plugged in and out it
should just work unless there is a driver corruption, some kind of delay in
the recognition or maybe a faulty bit of ram in the computer that
occasionally gets accessed, but the latter seems unlikely as when that
happens normally crashes can happen any old time as windows reallocates ram
all the time.
Still I downloaded memtest so may run that next week.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
<hubops@ccanoemail.ca> wrote in message
news:29rn6h50orbq92h1b1ck6e41np5mu86drc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 09:16:18 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
> <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I know there are some folk here who dabble with computers, so I thought
>>I'd
>>ask this.
>> A machine has been working for some years, yes you got the odd crash but
>>nothing our of the ordinary with Windoze.
>>However in the last few days its resetting almost every time a ram stick
>>is
>>plugged or unplugged from the sockets. I tried a powered hub with switches
>>and it still doing it.
>> About 70 percent of the time apparently.
>> It sounds a bit like a hardware issue, could it be failing ram, dodgy
>>connections inside or perhaps a corrupted driver somewhere?
>> Its Windoze 7 home, and I have a similar spec machine at home with 7 pro
>> on
>>it with no issues. This one has an ssd but more memory, but apart from
>>that
>>the processor is the same, and the graphics card. The mothherboard is
>>slightly newer on mine, but apart from that...
>> Any bright ideas? If I ask on a computer specific group I get
>> complicated
>>diagnostics to do outside windoze, and of course, it will then not speak
>>so
>>I can't do it.
>> Brian
>
>
> Is the computer clock OK ? - I'm wondering if the little battery
> is in need of replacing ? Just a thought .. a Win 7 era computer
> would be pushing 15 years old ...
>
> Do you shut it off daily ? or just let it "sleep" ?
> John T.
>

Re: Computer query

<t4gv2m$19d$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 16:09:04 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:09 UTC

Wrong end of stick, or ram drive or thumb drive?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:jd1qh4F7qacU1@mid.individual.net...
> Why do you keep adding and removing RAM? Normally, it is fitted once and
> left in place for the life of the Machine. It is also sensitive to static,
> so can be damaged by touching it while it is not fitted, esopceially if
> you are wearing synthetic cloth or using a synthetic carpet and not anti
> static measures.
>
> If you are using USB sticks to add memory to a machine that is short on
> motherboard based memory, the sticks have a limited life due to them
> actually being flash memory.
>
> Crashing when using USB sticks to transfer files can be caused by anything
> from a defective stick to a corrupted driver via a faulty socket on the
> computer. Faulty sticks will tend to cause problems on all computers,
> while faulty drivers and sockets will cause problems on all memory sticks.
> One favourite fault I've seen is an intermittent bad joint where the
> socket is mounted on the motherboard. A magnifying glass is often needed
> to see the crack even with young eyes...
>
>
> On 29/04/2022 09:16, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>> I know there are some folk here who dabble with computers, so I thought
>> I'd
>> ask this.
>> A machine has been working for some years, yes you got the odd crash but
>> nothing our of the ordinary with Windoze.
>> However in the last few days its resetting almost every time a ram stick
>> is
>> plugged or unplugged from the sockets. I tried a powered hub with
>> switches
>> and it still doing it.
>> About 70 percent of the time apparently.
>> It sounds a bit like a hardware issue, could it be failing ram, dodgy
>> connections inside or perhaps a corrupted driver somewhere?
>> Its Windoze 7 home, and I have a similar spec machine at home with 7 pro
>> on
>> it with no issues. This one has an ssd but more memory, but apart from
>> that
>> the processor is the same, and the graphics card. The mothherboard is
>> slightly newer on mine, but apart from that...
>> Any bright ideas? If I ask on a computer specific group I get
>> complicated
>> diagnostics to do outside windoze, and of course, it will then not speak
>> so
>> I can't do it.
>> Brian
>>
>
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

Re: Computer query

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From: johnwill...@btinternet.com (John Williamson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:03:09 +0100
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 by: John Williamson - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 16:03 UTC

On 29/04/2022 16:09, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Wrong end of stick, or ram drive or thumb drive?
> Brian
>
In that case, the problem you describe is probably a fault on the
motherboard, such as a poor solder joint securing the socket.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Re: Computer query

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From: Pancho.D...@outlook.com (Pancho)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:37:09 +0100
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 by: Pancho - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 16:37 UTC

On 29/04/2022 14:54, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

> Is the computer clock OK ? - I'm wondering if the little battery
> is in need of replacing ? Just a thought .. a Win 7 era computer
> would be pushing 15 years old ...
>

I had to replace a button CR2032 battery a couple of weeks ago. The
symptoms manifested as boot failure. The PC randomly couldn't find boot
device. When it did boot, it was solid.

I think Brian's problems are different. It could be hardware, but it
could be a driver.

Sticking with Win7 makes support a little difficult. My PC is 10 years
old, but runs Win10.

> Do you shut it off daily ? or just let it "sleep" ?

In my case, I think the problem started as I started switching it off at
the main socket.

Re: Computer query

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From: johnwill...@btinternet.com (John Williamson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
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 by: John Williamson - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 16:58 UTC

On 29/04/2022 17:37, Pancho wrote:

> I think Brian's problems are different. It could be hardware, but it
> could be a driver.
>
As the problem is reported with multiple sticks, which all work on other
computers, I'm betting that more than 10 years of plugging USB sticks in
has worn the socket out or damaged a solder joint.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Re: Computer query

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 by: hub...@ccanoemail.ca - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:18 UTC

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:58:59 +0100, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 29/04/2022 17:37, Pancho wrote:
>
>> I think Brian's problems are different. It could be hardware, but it
>> could be a driver.
>>
>As the problem is reported with multiple sticks, which all work on other
>computers, I'm betting that more than 10 years of plugging USB sticks in
>has worn the socket out or damaged a solder joint.

An easy trouble-shoot - perhaps Brian has already tried it ?
- if the machine has 1 good reliable USB port
< perhaps the usual mouse input >
try the memory sticks in there and the <mouse> into
the problem port ..
The SD card slot on my Vista-era T500 has become
a hit-and-miss try-it-3-times affair.. old age & wear & tear ..
John T.

Re: Computer query

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From: ton...@email.com (Tone)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:07:45 +0100
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 by: Tone - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:07 UTC

On 29/04/2022 17:58, John Williamson wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 17:37, Pancho wrote:
>
>> I think Brian's problems are different. It could be hardware, but it
>> could be a driver.
>>
> As the problem is reported with multiple sticks, which all work on other
> computers, I'm betting that more than 10 years of plugging USB sticks in
> has worn the socket out or damaged a solder joint.
>
>

Yes. I had a similar problem. I though it was a flash drive that was
screwing up my music, but it turned out to be a usb socket.

I now use USB extension leads to save wear and tear on the 'puter usb
sockets.

Tone

Re: Computer query

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From: chr...@mshome.net (Chris Elvidge)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:08:06 +0100
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 by: Chris Elvidge - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:08 UTC

On 29/04/2022 16:07, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> We have to turn it off as the room is notours. I think though when its been
> on for a while the system is normally fine and boots from the right things,
> but I would need to find a pair of eyes to go into the bios I suppose. Where
> is the battery on these gigabyte small motherboards. Its the one which used
> three ram slots which I'm told were quite rare, mine has four and its a
> similar age, but with 8 gigs.
>
> I'd have thought that as it can see the drives being plugged in and out it
> should just work unless there is a driver corruption, some kind of delay in
> the recognition or maybe a faulty bit of ram in the computer that
> occasionally gets accessed, but the latter seems unlikely as when that
> happens normally crashes can happen any old time as windows reallocates ram
> all the time.
> Still I downloaded memtest so may run that next week.
> Brian
>
>

You seem to be conflating two unrelated things - Memory (RAM) and Disk
(USB). USB sticks are not (generally) regarded as memory.

Plugging/unplugging RAM (as I read your original post) while the
computer is on will cause crashes - and probably bugger the RAM.
Cleaning the RAM contacts (a rubber (not Durex) works well) and
reseating the RAM, with the power off, may help. Is it 8x2Gb or 2x4Gb?
If 2x4 are the RAM sticks in the correct motherboard slots? Are the RAM
sticks matched - i.e. same capacity, clock speed etc? Mismatched pairs
may also cause problems.

Plugging/unplugging USB sticks shouldn't cause crashes. Unplugging
without unmounting may wreck the drive and/or corrupt data. However it
may not! Dodgy USB drives will probably cause problems - crashing etc.

Memtest will only check RAM, not USB drives. They're not memory as we
know it unless you have set the stick to be used as ReadyBoost. If they
are used as ReadyBoost, plugging/unplugging live may have unpredictable
results.

As to the real time clock, if the computer boots from power off without
complaining about the time and date, the RTC battery is OK.

--
Chris Elvidge
England

Re: Computer query

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 08:32:36 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:32 UTC

No I use differentsockets. I'm leaning toward drivers from what have read
elsewhere. Snag is will the drivers still be available. Still it should be
possible to work through the whole usb tree and just ask it in the device
manager to reinstall them I'd have thought. Trouble is hubs and usb 3 and 2
bits and each one needing to reload a driver when you change a stick
because we have so many different batches could take some time and still be
no good afterwards. And no, I don't want to install windows again. Daft
thing is I have a machine here which gets more use on its usbs and its fine
and manyold xp machines that are still fine as well.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:jd2jqmFciknU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 29/04/2022 17:37, Pancho wrote:
>
>> I think Brian's problems are different. It could be hardware, but it
>> could be a driver.
>>
> As the problem is reported with multiple sticks, which all work on other
> computers, I'm betting that more than 10 years of plugging USB sticks in
> has worn the socket out or damaged a solder joint.
>
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

Re: Computer query

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Computer query
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 08:43:42 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:43 UTC

I found extensions tended to make it worse. I do feel though that USBA
sockets and plugs aare most certainly not the best for connections even when
new. A wibble and oops no stick or a crash.
I guess that depends which line is the one that dies. We do try to use the
same sticks for the master and back up of the database etc, and very seldom
use the listeners sticks in the machine as we have a dedicated 1 to 11
copier that does them all at once, and yes you can clearly see in that case
one socket gets mucky, and needs a squirt and a stick pushing in and out of
it to clear the problem. Because they go through the royal mail and are
handled by joe pubic and fall down behind furniture, get juice spilled on
them etc, we do sometimes have to bin them due to the mess, but sadly our
copy people tend to not notice until it does not work. However this a
different problem as the copier is using Linux and only has an lcd and a
bleeper. The main issue is the desktop and from what I read, even today in
Windows 11 these usb crashes seem to happen for all sorts of reasons. I've
even managed to crash it with a usb internet over cellular module. The sound
card inside is disabled and a usb one is in use and has little issues,
neither does a 2 tb back up drive in one of the front slots, to seems only
to be your basic half and quarter meg sticks.
Brian

--

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"Tone" <tone@email.com> wrote in message news:t4hd21$mev$1@dont-email.me...
> On 29/04/2022 17:58, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 17:37, Pancho wrote:
>>
>>> I think Brian's problems are different. It could be hardware, but it
>>> could be a driver.
>>>
>> As the problem is reported with multiple sticks, which all work on other
>> computers, I'm betting that more than 10 years of plugging USB sticks in
>> has worn the socket out or damaged a solder joint.
>>
>>
>
> Yes. I had a similar problem. I though it was a flash drive that was
> screwing up my music, but it turned out to be a usb socket.
>
> I now use USB extension leads to save wear and tear on the 'puter usb
> sockets.
>
> Tone

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