On 07 Aug 2023 10:47:39 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 07:41:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >On 04/08/2023 11:07, Andy Burns wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Colin Bignell wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I sometimes visit M&S [...] I am a popular size for trousers, so they
>> >>> have usually sold out if I go into the shop
>> >> I'm an unpopular size for trousers, they've usually sold out of those too.
>> >Its a vicious circle. They less they sell of anything the less they want
>> >to hold it in stock. It is now getting to the stage where stuff is
>> >manufactured to order...
>>
>> Would manufacturing to order not benefit UK suppliers? Possibly
>> furniture apart, who would wait eight weeks or whatever for something
>> to arrive from China?
>
>It's what 'fast fashion' brands do. Some style gets to the top of TikTok,
>the brand tells their supplier to copy it and get it on the shelves asap.
>Sometimes those are UK suppliers (eg Leicester is a cluster), sometimes it's
>'nearshored' in places like Turkey. They then track how much it sells as to
>whether to order more.
>
>It costs more than Asian manufacturing, but it's worth it for their business
>model. I'm not sure it would be cost effective if it was just regular items
>not 'fast' ones, but I suppose there is an advantage to not having a lot of
>stock on ships and being able to respond to market demands (eg don't order
>snow shovels until there is a forecast of snow)
>
Do you think robotic manufacturing techniques will shift the balance
of advantage onshore?

On 07/08/2023 12:30, Tim Lamb wrote:

>
> On the *dispersible* bit.. I take 75mg Aspirin daily ( said to make my
> blood less sticky). Apparently this can attack my stomach so Omeprazole
> is also prescribed as a protectant:-(
>
I asked for and got gastric coated, which doesn't dissolve until its
well past sensitive areas. Provided you don't cut it open :-)

I take the lansoprazole though because allegedly I have a hernia and it
stops they worts to the agonising chest pain .

> Point of order, dispersible means just that as the pills break down to a
> powder some of which clings to the side of my breakfast fruit juice glass.
>
> My 20mg statin pill comes with a break mark so could be taken as 10mg.

I've got split marks on I think two of my pills and used to take one and
a half of one of them

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 07/08/2023 16:06, Scott wrote:
> On 07 Aug 2023 10:47:39 +0100 (BST), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 07:41:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/08/2023 11:07, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I sometimes visit M&S [...] I am a popular size for trousers, so they
>>>>>> have usually sold out if I go into the shop
>>>>> I'm an unpopular size for trousers, they've usually sold out of those too.
>>>> Its a vicious circle. They less they sell of anything the less they want
>>>> to hold it in stock. It is now getting to the stage where stuff is
>>>> manufactured to order...
>>>
>>> Would manufacturing to order not benefit UK suppliers? Possibly
>>> furniture apart, who would wait eight weeks or whatever for something
>>> to arrive from China?
>>
>> It's what 'fast fashion' brands do. Some style gets to the top of TikTok,
>> the brand tells their supplier to copy it and get it on the shelves asap.
>> Sometimes those are UK suppliers (eg Leicester is a cluster), sometimes it's
>> 'nearshored' in places like Turkey. They then track how much it sells as to
>> whether to order more.
>>
>> It costs more than Asian manufacturing, but it's worth it for their business
>> model. I'm not sure it would be cost effective if it was just regular items
>> not 'fast' ones, but I suppose there is an advantage to not having a lot of
>> stock on ships and being able to respond to market demands (eg don't order
>> snow shovels until there is a forecast of snow)
>>
> Do you think robotic manufacturing techniques will shift the balance
> of advantage onshore?

Not if UK business rates, high energy prices and taxes increase the
costs more than shipping does.

On 07/08/2023 12:30, charles wrote:
> In article <uaqg5s$2qjbc$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 06/08/2023 10:51, Bob Henson wrote:
>>> On 5.8.23 8:44 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>>> My GP put me on 90mg of a tablet only available in 60 or 120mg.
>>>>
>>>> The prescription was fulfilled by the surgeries own pharmacy and said
>>>> 'one and a half tablets, once a day'
>>>>
>>>> Frankly thank Clapton we have one - the nearest chemist is ten miles away
>>>>
>>>
>>> In situations where there is no pharmacy I suppose surgery dispensing is
>>> a good idea, but I always had reservations where the same people wrote
>>> prescriptions, dispensed them and wrote death certificates.
>
>> Hmm. Its not really like that. I do appreciate that one time when I went
>> back to a pharmacist and said. 'excuse me but does this pill make you
>> sick' he said' absolutely, unless taken with food' which the doctor had
>> failed to mention..
>
>> And also pharmacists are far better than doctors at 'what is this
>> infection under my nail' 'er that's fungal - buy some anti-fungal cream'
>> but unceasingly they wont sell me stuff 'without a doctors prescription,
>> because of your XYZ condition'.
>
>> So I need to go back to the GP anyway.
>
>> MOST of my repeat medications is actually now prescribed by a hospital
>> with a trained pharmacist overseeing what it is and checking up on side
>> effects.
>> The GP merely rubber stamps that into the system, and its dispense by
>> several mature ladies in smart uniforms, because that surgery covers a
>> huge catchment area and the throughput is massive.
>
>> Back in the
>>> days when they hand-wrote prescriptions particularly we saved their
>>> bacon more times than I can remember. I don't know what the situation is
>>> today, but as far as I know it is unchanged from the situation when I
>>> was working where the dispensing at the surgery could be legally done by
>>> a schoolkid on a YTS course, after about two days paperwork training.
>>>
>
>> Dispensing yes, but the actual checks and balances are all done by the
>> doctors themselves. The trained pharmacists now work increasingly at the
>> hospitals, because the role of the GP is more a triage to the hospital,
>> than actually doing much diagnosis anyway.
>
>> My GPs will look at bloods, and urine, take temperatures and blood
>> pressure, and ECG in a pinch, and there's a nurse who checks breathing
>> levels and oxygen levels, with limited prescriptive powers, but apart
>> from being helpful in understanding stuff, anything beyond an antibiotic
>> or a laxative is a hospital job.
>
> I was diagnosed as a having Diabetes Type 2 by my GP; prescribed a daily
> tablet; seen by a diet advisor at the GP's surgery and told, after 9
> months, that I'd put the diabetes in remission. No hospital involved.
>

You could have done that yourself simply with some dietary
changes and a bit more exercise.

On 06/08/2023 12:56, AnthonyL wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 20:44:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/08/2023 20:32, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 05/08/2023 19:36, Theo wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think a good bit of workload of late has been pinging back between
>>>> pharmacist and GP: 'you prescribed X mg of Y, but it's out of stock
>>>> nationally', 'ok then, I'll prescribe Z instead', 'sorry that's now
>>>> out of
>>>> stock too'.  I imagine you want as short a feedback loop as possible
>>>> in this
>>>> situation.
>>>
>>> I found it strange that when picking up my lat prescriptions that a
>>> 20mg/tablet wasn't available but the Pharmacist said he could get the
>>> 10mg/tablet. He wasn't allowed to change the prescription from one 20mg
>>> tablet a day to 2x10mg tablets a day. He had to go back to the GP for a
>>> new prescription that detailed 2x10mg.  So much for HM Gov suggesting
>>> going to a Pharmacist rather than a GP an also reducing the bureaucracy
>>> in the NHS.
>>>
>> My GP put me on 90mg of a tablet only available in 60 or 120mg.
>>
>> The prescription was fulfilled by the surgeries own pharmacy and said
>> 'one and a half tablets, once a day'
>>
>
> Could the pharmacy confirm that the active ingredient in the tablet
> was evenly distributed?
>
> I used to try and take low dose aspiring by breaking up the 300mg
> tablets into 4. In the pub one evening with a chemist and a doctor
> they both rebuked me because there is no attempt at even distribution
> of medication in the tablet. I then took to dissolving a tablet and
> taking a sip over 4 days.
>
>

That is what I do, but I use the dispersible variety.

Since it is quite safe (for most people) to take full tablets
more than once per day, any slight variation of the active
ingredient of a manually chopped 1/4 is neither here nor there.

If you are worried, consume with breakfast, and never on an
empty stomach.

On 07/08/2023 11:44, Bob Henson wrote:
> On 7.8.23 11:22 am, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Bob Henson wrote:
>>
>>> A large quantity of ingredient and excipient are mixed together to
>>> enable great accuracy of measurement. The tablets must then be of
>>> precise weight (easy to do) to get the correct dose, and capsules
>>> have the precise amount added.
>>
>> That's kind of what I thought, I did once visit a manufacturer of
>> pill-production machines, and sort-of remembered quite large machines.
>>
>> So if the active ingredient is well-mixed from large batches down to the
>> scale of individual pills, it seems a little odd to worry about half a
>> pill not being consistent, it's hardly homeopathic levels of dilution ...
>>
>>
>
> That, as I said elsewhere, is not the problem, it is the fact that many
> preparations are chemically and physiologically unsuitable to be split.
>

If the tablet is solid and made from a single compound or well
mixed compounds, then all that matters is how accurately you
can chop the tablet, surely ?.

There cannot be many (or any) conditions that require an
accurate dosage to be taken at exactly the right time. People
are incapable of doing that at home. Any condition that
critical would require hospitalisation and IV administration
probably using a machine that delivers accurate dosing.

On 07/08/2023 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/08/2023 15:23, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 06/08/2023 10:14, Bob Henson wrote:
>>> On 5.8.23 6:47 pm, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 05/08/2023 15:29, Bob Henson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There is a lesser factor at the moment in that there is an acute
>>>>> shortage of pharmacists, caused in part by them now being able to make
>>>>> more money in hospitals than in community pharmacy (never the case in
>>>>> the past) and even more working in GP practices behind the scenes
>>>>> helping to reduce the drugs bill for the NHS by "censoring" what
>>>>> the GPs
>>>>> prescribe to the patients.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My GP surgery has had a pharmacists on the pay role for very many
>>>> years.
>>>> He seems to look after annual checks for people that have been on long
>>>> term repeat prescriptions and checking test results. He also
>>>> 'specialises' in high blood pressure cases for which you can get an
>>>> appointment rather than an appointment to the GP.
>>>>
>>>> In the GP surgery where my mother attends they appointed a full time
>>>> pharmacists early this year and it seems he is looking after aftercare
>>>> following a hospital admission with regards changes in prescriptions
>>>> and
>>>> test following hospital consultant's advice. This seems to improved the
>>>> left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing with GPs not just
>>>> looking at previous prescriptions and putting the patient back on the
>>>> same whereas a hospital visit had determined some of the medication was
>>>> inappropriate or no longer necessary.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are advantages to having someone in the building who knows a lot
>>> about drugs. We (community pharmacists) used to do that role, but it was
>>> frequently hard to get the ear of the GPs many of whom considered it
>>> offensive to be told how to do something by a inferior beings such as
>>> us.
>>
>> Of course. I found out very quickly that medics are quite good at
>> diagnosis, not bad at surgery, but knew damn all about medicines. I
>> think it was intimated once by a medic I knew that, in their 5-year
>> course, only 6 weeks was spent on pharmacology! That was over 50 years
>> ago, so perhaps things have changed now. Somehow I doubt it.
>>
> My GPs look up everything on an online database, that already knows my
> whole prescription and THAT red flags any bad combinations
>
> Sadly, since the pharmacists skill is mainly one of knowing stuff, by
> rote, a computer is likely to replace them in time.
>
> Their main value to me in a chemists, was always in the past rapid
> diagnosis of extremely common ailments and off the shelf remedies to fix
> them. Only once or twice did they add value to a prescription.
>
> These days IT has caught up, and the doctor has an online database that
> carries more info than any pharmacist probably could
>
>
>

The only place that you will find printed copies of Greys Anatomy
these days are public libraries. West Sussex has 5 copies, at about
140 pounds each.

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 21:10:59 +0100, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>On 04/08/2023 16:12, nib wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Aug 2023 14:48:31 +0100, SH wrote:
>>> On 04/08/2023 12:22, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 12:15:51 +0100, SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 04/08/2023 11:57, Robin wrote:
>
>>>>>> Chippies advertise a price for "chips".  In ordinary usage that is
>>>>>> using "chips" to mean an amount (undefined on the list) of chips.  So
>>>>>> when someone asks for "2 chips" they are asking for "2 of the amount
>>>>>> of chips for which you charge...".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your interpretation of "2 chips" only makes sense if, when customers
>>>>>> asked for "chips", you presented them with one chip.  I doubt you'd
>>>>>> have kept your job (or in some chippies your teeth) for long.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well the customer should have said 2 portions of chips in the first
>>>>> place!
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely. This is a contract in law, that requires to be expressed
>>>> in clear and unambiguous terms. I suggest also specifying the size of
>>>>> the portion and the temperature at which it should be served.
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely correct, a contract can be either in written form, in spoken
>>> form or in implied form....
>>>
>>> So I had a verbal contract offered to me to supply just 2 chips, so I
>>> created an implied action that I was accepting the verbally offered
>>> contract by providing him with 2 chips on a sheet of paper....
>>
>> So what would they have got for:
>>
>> "Two fish and chips"
>>
>> "Fish and chips twice"
>>
>> "Chips twice"
>
>Greasy spoon cafes distinguish between double egg and chips and egg and
>chips twice. Everyone knows what is meant.

You could argue about whether a double egg is an egg with two yolks or
two eggs.

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 16:49:43 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 04/08/2023 14:48, SH wrote:
>> On 04/08/2023 12:22, Scott wrote:
>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 12:15:51 +0100, SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/08/2023 11:57, Robin wrote:
>>>>> On 04/08/2023 10:45, SH wrote:
>>>>>> On 04/08/2023 10:27, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>>>> Ah but you were taking the piss, this is a problem of ambiguous
>>>>>>> tagging of
>>>>>>> items.
>>>>>>>    Even Amazon  say things like 1 off, then a length choice. If they
>>>>>>> had done
>>>>>>> that then it would be obvious what you wanted.
>>>>>>>    Brian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how is this taking the piss? I gave the customer *exactly* what he
>>>>>> asked for......
>>>>>
>>>>> You sure?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chippies advertise a price for "chips".  In ordinary usage that is
>>>>> using
>>>>> "chips" to mean an amount (undefined on the list) of chips.  So when
>>>>> someone asks for "2 chips" they are asking for "2 of the amount of
>>>>> chips
>>>>> for which you charge...".
>>>>>
>>>>> Your interpretation of "2 chips" only makes sense if, when customers
>>>>> asked for "chips", you presented them with one chip.  I doubt you'd
>>>>> have
>>>>> kept your job (or in some chippies your teeth) for long.
>>>>
>>>> Well the customer should have said 2 portions of chips in the first
>>>> place!
>>>
>>> Absolutely.  This is a contract in law, that requires to be expressed
>>> in clear and unambiguous terms.  I suggest also specifying the size of
>>> > the portion and the temperature at which it should be served.
>>
>>
>> Absolutely correct, a contract can be either in written form, in spoken
>> form or in implied form....
>>
>> So I had a verbal contract offered to me to supply just 2 chips, so I
>> created an implied action that I was accepting the verbally offered
>> contract by providing him with 2 chips on a sheet of paper....
>
>See you in court.
>
>In England a contract is not construed pedantically to achieve a bizarre
>result that benefits one awfully clever party. It's construed "to
>determine what the parties meant by the language used, which involves
>ascertaining what a reasonable person would have understood the parties
>to have meant". Here "the relevant reasonable person is one who has all
>the background knowledge which would reasonably have been available to
>the parties in the situation in which they were at the time of the
>contract."[1]
>
>I suppose you might just possible have a case if you could provide
>evidence that when asked for "1 chips" you provided a single chip, and
>this was well known to your regular customers. Well, could you?
>
>And I have no idea what makes you think contracts are /required/ to be
>be expressed in clear and unambiguous terms. It's a good idea to do so.
>But few do in routine matters. E.g. when did you last specify
>unambiguously what you wanted by way of "chips" - number, weight,
>variety of potato, oil, cooking temperature....?
>
Actually, I was the first to say that; and I was being ironic at the
time. Scott
>
>[1] quotes from Lord Clarke at 14 in the Supreme Court judgment in Rainy
>Day
>http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2011/50.html

On 07/08/2023 11:25, Bob Henson wrote:

> Do they use postal services or carriers? Many folk had problems when the
> industrial dinosaurs at the Post Office went on strike.
>

RM only seem to priorities only the tracked packages that command a high
postal cost. Even without RM stikes my mail arrives in batches with no
post delivery for for many days in between. 1st class mail can take a
week to arrive. Apparently the local RM depot cannot keep new staff for
more than a month or two and the turnover of staff is very high.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article <uar590$2tv24$4@dont-email.me>, Andrew
<Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 07/08/2023 12:30, charles wrote:
> > In article <uaqg5s$2qjbc$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 06/08/2023 10:51, Bob Henson wrote:
> >>> On 5.8.23 8:44 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >
> >>>> My GP put me on 90mg of a tablet only available in 60 or 120mg.
> >>>>
> >>>> The prescription was fulfilled by the surgeries own pharmacy and
> >>>> said 'one and a half tablets, once a day'
> >>>>
> >>>> Frankly thank Clapton we have one - the nearest chemist is ten miles
> >>>> away
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> In situations where there is no pharmacy I suppose surgery dispensing
> >>> is a good idea, but I always had reservations where the same people
> >>> wrote prescriptions, dispensed them and wrote death certificates.
> >
> >> Hmm. Its not really like that. I do appreciate that one time when I
> >> went back to a pharmacist and said. 'excuse me but does this pill make
> >> you sick' he said' absolutely, unless taken with food' which the
> >> doctor had failed to mention..
> >
> >> And also pharmacists are far better than doctors at 'what is this
> >> infection under my nail' 'er that's fungal - buy some anti-fungal
> >> cream' but unceasingly they wont sell me stuff 'without a doctors
> >> prescription, because of your XYZ condition'.
> >
> >> So I need to go back to the GP anyway.
> >
> >> MOST of my repeat medications is actually now prescribed by a hospital
> >> with a trained pharmacist overseeing what it is and checking up on
> >> side effects. The GP merely rubber stamps that into the system, and
> >> its dispense by several mature ladies in smart uniforms, because that
> >> surgery covers a huge catchment area and the throughput is massive.
> >
> >> Back in the
> >>> days when they hand-wrote prescriptions particularly we saved their
> >>> bacon more times than I can remember. I don't know what the situation
> >>> is today, but as far as I know it is unchanged from the situation
> >>> when I was working where the dispensing at the surgery could be
> >>> legally done by a schoolkid on a YTS course, after about two days
> >>> paperwork training.
> >>>
> >
> >> Dispensing yes, but the actual checks and balances are all done by the
> >> doctors themselves. The trained pharmacists now work increasingly at
> >> the hospitals, because the role of the GP is more a triage to the
> >> hospital, than actually doing much diagnosis anyway.
> >
> >> My GPs will look at bloods, and urine, take temperatures and blood
> >> pressure, and ECG in a pinch, and there's a nurse who checks breathing
> >> levels and oxygen levels, with limited prescriptive powers, but apart
> >> from being helpful in understanding stuff, anything beyond an
> >> antibiotic or a laxative is a hospital job.
> >
> > I was diagnosed as a having Diabetes Type 2 by my GP; prescribed a
> > daily tablet; seen by a diet advisor at the GP's surgery and told,
> > after 9 months, that I'd put the diabetes in remission. No hospital
> > involved.
> >

> You could have done that yourself simply with some dietary changes and a
> bit more exercise.

did that as well and still on that regime

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 7.8.23 12:30 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <kjbu0iF2fjfU1@mid.individual.net>, Bob Henson
> <bob.henson@outlook.com> writes
>>On 6.8.23 12:56 pm, AnthonyL wrote:
>>> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 20:44:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 05/08/2023 20:32, alan_m wrote:
>>>>> On 05/08/2023 19:36, Theo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think a good bit of workload of late has been pinging back between
>>>>>> pharmacist and GP: 'you prescribed X mg of Y, but it's out of stock
>>>>>> nationally', 'ok then, I'll prescribe Z instead', 'sorry that's
>>>>>>out of
>>>>>> stock too'.  I imagine you want as short a feedback loop as
>>>>>>possible in this
>>>>>> situation.
>>>>> I found it strange that when picking up my lat prescriptions that
>>>>>a 20mg/tablet wasn't available but the Pharmacist said he could get
>>>>>the 10mg/tablet. He wasn't allowed to change the prescription from
>>>>>one 20mg tablet a day to 2x10mg tablets a day. He had to go back to
>>>>>the GP for a new prescription that detailed 2x10mg.  So much for HM
>>>>>Gov suggesting going to a Pharmacist rather than a GP an also
>>>>>reducing the bureaucracy in the NHS.
>>>>>
>>>>My GP put me on 90mg of a tablet only available in 60 or 120mg.
>>>>
>>>>The prescription was fulfilled by the surgeries own pharmacy and said
>>>>'one and a half tablets, once a day'
>>>>
>>> Could the pharmacy confirm that the active ingredient in the tablet
>>> was evenly distributed?
>>> I used to try and take low dose aspiring by breaking up the 300mg
>>> tablets into 4. In the pub one evening with a chemist and a doctor
>>> they both rebuked me because there is no attempt at even distribution
>>> of medication in the tablet. I then took to dissolving a tablet and
>>> taking a sip over 4 days.
>>>
>>
>>Never dissolve or disperse tablets unless they are marked soluble. The
>>same applies to opening capsules - even more so. It affects the
>>absorption and metabolism, possibly dangerously. In a normal tablet it
>>is nearly impossible to get uneven distribution due to the way they are
>>made and they should have been batch tested anyway. The danger in
>>halving tablets arise because quite a lot of them, particularly
>>sustained release preparations, are coated and must always be swallowed
>>whole without breaking the coating. In my experience most surgery
>>dispensaries (having no pharmacist there) would have no idea which ones
>>could safely be cut. The only safe thing is /never/ to do it.
>
> On the *dispersible* bit.. I take 75mg Aspirin daily ( said to make my
> blood less sticky). Apparently this can attack my stomach so Omeprazole
> is also prescribed as a protectant:-(
>
> Point of order, dispersible means just that as the pills break down to a
> powder some of which clings to the side of my breakfast fruit juice
> glass.
>
That's correct - they only disperse. That's so the whole tablet doesn't
stick to one place on the stomach wall and attack it.

> My 20mg statin pill comes with a break mark so could be taken as 10mg.

They always used to come with instructions not to break them, but mine
too as scored. It's possible they changed the construction since the
early days.

--
Tetbury, Gloucestershire , UK

Licentiae, quam stulti libertatem vocabant - Tacitus

On 07/08/2023 16:24, SteveW wrote:
>> Do you think robotic manufacturing techniques will shift the balance
>> of advantage onshore?
>
> Not if UK business rates, high energy prices and taxes increase the
> costs more than shipping does.

Nail on head.

UK government intent on killing all golden geese to buy enough votes to
win the next election.

--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

On 07/08/2023 17:17, Andrew wrote:

> Since it is quite safe (for most people) to take full tablets
> more than once per day, any slight variation of the active
> ingredient of a manually chopped 1/4 is neither here nor there.
>
oh yes., aspirin at 75mg is simply a precaution that somewhat lowers the
risk of a stroke or heart attack due to clot formation. Doiesnt do a
great deal for arterial blockages due to vagrant bits of plaque though

> If you are worried, consume with breakfast, and never on an
> empty stomach.

Or get enteric coated aspirin. And take the lansoprazole or omeprazole.

I currently take 10 pills a day, 5 in the am and 5 in the pm.
Which reminds me....

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

On 07/08/2023 17:22, Andrew wrote:

>
> There cannot be many (or any) conditions that require an
> accurate dosage to be taken at exactly the right time. People
> are incapable of doing that at home. Any condition that
> critical would require hospitalisation and IV administration
> probably using a machine that delivers accurate dosing.

Of course. And even then....
most regular pill regimes rely on building a level of the drug up in the
body to a certain extent and then keeping it more or less constant.

Chopping pills makes it a bit less, than more.

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

In article <uar590$2tv24$4@dont-email.me>, Andrew
<Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 07/08/2023 12:30, charles wrote:
> > In article <uaqg5s$2qjbc$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 06/08/2023 10:51, Bob Henson wrote:
> >>> On 5.8.23 8:44 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> >
> >>>> My GP put me on 90mg of a tablet only available in 60 or 120mg.
> >>>>
> >>>> The prescription was fulfilled by the surgeries own pharmacy and
> >>>> said 'one and a half tablets, once a day'
> >>>>
> >>>> Frankly thank Clapton we have one - the nearest chemist is ten miles
> >>>> away
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> In situations where there is no pharmacy I suppose surgery dispensing
> >>> is a good idea, but I always had reservations where the same people
> >>> wrote prescriptions, dispensed them and wrote death certificates.
> >
> >> Hmm. Its not really like that. I do appreciate that one time when I
> >> went back to a pharmacist and said. 'excuse me but does this pill make
> >> you sick' he said' absolutely, unless taken with food' which the
> >> doctor had failed to mention..
> >
> >> And also pharmacists are far better than doctors at 'what is this
> >> infection under my nail' 'er that's fungal - buy some anti-fungal
> >> cream' but unceasingly they wont sell me stuff 'without a doctors
> >> prescription, because of your XYZ condition'.
> >
> >> So I need to go back to the GP anyway.
> >
> >> MOST of my repeat medications is actually now prescribed by a hospital
> >> with a trained pharmacist overseeing what it is and checking up on
> >> side effects. The GP merely rubber stamps that into the system, and
> >> its dispense by several mature ladies in smart uniforms, because that
> >> surgery covers a huge catchment area and the throughput is massive.
> >
> >> Back in the
> >>> days when they hand-wrote prescriptions particularly we saved their
> >>> bacon more times than I can remember. I don't know what the situation
> >>> is today, but as far as I know it is unchanged from the situation
> >>> when I was working where the dispensing at the surgery could be
> >>> legally done by a schoolkid on a YTS course, after about two days
> >>> paperwork training.
> >>>
> >
> >> Dispensing yes, but the actual checks and balances are all done by the
> >> doctors themselves. The trained pharmacists now work increasingly at
> >> the hospitals, because the role of the GP is more a triage to the
> >> hospital, than actually doing much diagnosis anyway.
> >
> >> My GPs will look at bloods, and urine, take temperatures and blood
> >> pressure, and ECG in a pinch, and there's a nurse who checks breathing
> >> levels and oxygen levels, with limited prescriptive powers, but apart
> >> from being helpful in understanding stuff, anything beyond an
> >> antibiotic or a laxative is a hospital job.
> >
> > I was diagnosed as a having Diabetes Type 2 by my GP; prescribed a
> > daily tablet; seen by a diet advisor at the GP's surgery and told,
> > after 9 months, that I'd put the diabetes in remission. No hospital
> > involved.
> >

> You could have done that yourself simply with some dietary changes and a
> bit more exercise.

and, what I should said earlier, by doing the diet and exercise bit as well
as the tablets, I astounded my GP in how quickly I reduced my blood sugar
level. In 3 months it was at a safe level.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 07/08/2023 12:30, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <kjbu0iF2fjfU1@mid.individual.net>, Bob Henson
> <bob.henson@outlook.com> writes
>> On 6.8.23 12:56 pm, AnthonyL wrote:
>>> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 20:44:40 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/08/2023 20:32, alan_m wrote:
>>>>> On 05/08/2023 19:36, Theo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think a good bit of workload of late has been pinging back between
>>>>>> pharmacist and GP: 'you prescribed X mg of Y, but it's out of stock
>>>>>> nationally', 'ok then, I'll prescribe Z instead', 'sorry that's
>>>>>> out of
>>>>>> stock too'.  I imagine you want as short a feedback loop as
>>>>>> possible  in this
>>>>>> situation.
>>>>>  I found it strange that when picking up my lat prescriptions that
>>>>> a  20mg/tablet wasn't available but the Pharmacist said he could
>>>>> get the  10mg/tablet. He wasn't allowed to change the prescription
>>>>> from one 20mg  tablet a day to 2x10mg tablets a day. He had to go
>>>>> back to the GP for a  new prescription that detailed 2x10mg.  So
>>>>> much for HM Gov suggesting  going to a Pharmacist rather than a GP
>>>>> an also reducing the bureaucracy in the NHS.
>>>>>
>>>> My GP put me on 90mg of a tablet only available in 60 or 120mg.
>>>>
>>>> The prescription was fulfilled by the surgeries own pharmacy and
>>>> said 'one and a half tablets, once a day'
>>>>
>>>  Could the pharmacy confirm that the active ingredient in the tablet
>>> was evenly distributed?
>>>  I used to try and take low dose aspiring by breaking up the 300mg
>>> tablets into 4.  In the pub one evening with a chemist and a doctor
>>> they both rebuked me because there is no attempt at even distribution
>>> of medication in the tablet.  I then took to dissolving a tablet and
>>> taking a sip over 4 days.
>>>
>>
>> Never dissolve or disperse tablets unless they are marked soluble. The
>> same applies to opening capsules - even more so. It affects the
>> absorption and metabolism, possibly dangerously. In a normal tablet it
>> is nearly impossible to get uneven distribution due to the way they
>> are made and they should have been batch tested anyway. The danger in
>> halving tablets arise because quite a lot of them, particularly
>> sustained release preparations, are coated and must always be
>> swallowed whole without breaking the coating. In my experience most
>> surgery dispensaries (having no pharmacist there) would have no idea
>> which ones could safely be cut. The only safe thing is /never/ to do it.
>
> On the *dispersible* bit.. I take 75mg Aspirin daily ( said to make my
> blood less sticky). Apparently this can attack my stomach so Omeprazole
> is also prescribed as a protectant:-(
>
> Point of order, dispersible means just that as the pills break down to a
> powder some of which clings to the side of my breakfast fruit juice glass.

Taking aspirin with an possibly acidic liquid like fruit juice is
probably not a good idea. Just keep it in your mouth until it has
dissolved, then swallow soon after having some toast or whatever

On 07/08/2023 18:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 07/08/2023 17:17, Andrew wrote:
>
>> Since it is quite safe (for most people) to take full tablets
>> more than once per day, any slight variation of the active
>> ingredient of a manually chopped 1/4 is neither here nor there.
>>
> oh yes., aspirin at 75mg is simply a precaution that somewhat lowers the
> risk of a stroke or heart attack due to clot formation. Doiesnt do a
> great deal for arterial blockages due to vagrant bits of plaque though
>
>> If you are worried, consume with breakfast, and never on an
>> empty stomach.
>
> Or get enteric coated aspirin. And take the lansoprazole or omeprazole.

16 tablets (= 64 days supply) is about 45p in the supermarkets.
God only knows how much the NHS has to pay for aspirin on
prescription.

On 07/08/2023 17:47, Scott wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 21:10:59 +0100, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 04/08/2023 16:12, nib wrote:
>>> On Fri, 04 Aug 2023 14:48:31 +0100, SH wrote:
>>>> On 04/08/2023 12:22, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 12:15:51 +0100, SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 04/08/2023 11:57, Robin wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Chippies advertise a price for "chips".  In ordinary usage that is
>>>>>>> using "chips" to mean an amount (undefined on the list) of chips.  So
>>>>>>> when someone asks for "2 chips" they are asking for "2 of the amount
>>>>>>> of chips for which you charge...".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your interpretation of "2 chips" only makes sense if, when customers
>>>>>>> asked for "chips", you presented them with one chip.  I doubt you'd
>>>>>>> have kept your job (or in some chippies your teeth) for long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well the customer should have said 2 portions of chips in the first
>>>>>> place!
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely. This is a contract in law, that requires to be expressed
>>>>> in clear and unambiguous terms. I suggest also specifying the size of
>>>>>> the portion and the temperature at which it should be served.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely correct, a contract can be either in written form, in spoken
>>>> form or in implied form....
>>>>
>>>> So I had a verbal contract offered to me to supply just 2 chips, so I
>>>> created an implied action that I was accepting the verbally offered
>>>> contract by providing him with 2 chips on a sheet of paper....
>>>
>>> So what would they have got for:
>>>
>>> "Two fish and chips"
>>>
>>> "Fish and chips twice"
>>>
>>> "Chips twice"
>>
>> Greasy spoon cafes distinguish between double egg and chips and egg and
>> chips twice. Everyone knows what is meant.
>
> You could argue about whether a double egg is an egg with two yolks or
> two eggs.

"Everyone knows what is meant."

(This is the essence of language: a common understanding of meaning.)

--
Max Demian

On 04/08/2023 10:22, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Is this the same company we knew as Wilkinson's?

Yes, but locally we have a car accessory chain, by the name of Wilko..

On 05/08/2023 19:36, Theo wrote:
> Does anyone use the online pharmacies, where they claim to deliver your
> prescriptions by post?

I did and do, it's a bit of a roller coaster, with good and bad points...

To the good, it is delivered to you, all pre-sorted into daily marked
pouches.

To the bad, I've been left for days having to dip into emergency stocks.
Even when they delivered on time, it was only just on time, leaving me
wondering if they would arrive in time. They had to deliver in your
hand, yet gave little or no pre-warning of when they would arrive, they
just expected you to cancel any other arrangements you might have, to
accept them. I had words with them, and suggested it would be much more
sensible, if they sent them out a week early, leaving time for the
delivery to go wrong and be sorted, which they seemed to do with the
last delivery. If there is a change to your usual prescription, that
also causes chaos.

Were it not for the fact that I hate sorting meds out, I would go back
to collecting my meds from a local pharmacy.

On 07/08/2023 20:53, Andrew wrote:
> On 07/08/2023 18:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 07/08/2023 17:17, Andrew wrote:
>>
>>> Since it is quite safe (for most people) to take full tablets
>>> more than once per day, any slight variation of the active
>>> ingredient of a manually chopped 1/4 is neither here nor there.
>>>
>> oh yes., aspirin at 75mg is simply a precaution that somewhat lowers
>> the risk of a stroke or heart attack due to clot formation. Doiesnt do
>> a great deal for arterial blockages due to vagrant bits of plaque though
>>
>>> If you are worried, consume with breakfast, and never on an
>>> empty stomach.
>>
>> Or get enteric coated aspirin. And take the lansoprazole or omeprazole.
>
> 16 tablets (= 64 days supply) is about 45p in the supermarkets.
> God only knows how much the NHS has to pay for aspirin on
> prescription.
>
about 10p
They buy in bulk

--
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.”

― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire

On 7 Aug 2023 at 10:25:59, Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 7.8.23 7:04 am, Bob Martin wrote:
>>> On 5.8.23 7:36 pm, Theo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone use the online pharmacies, where they claim to deliver your
>>>> prescriptions by post? They sound like a really bad idea when there are
>>>> shortages or complex prescriptions liable to mistakes, because it sounds
>>>> like this kind of feedback loop would now involve a call script droid with a
>>>> script.
>>
>> My wife and I have used Pharmacy2U since the start of the pandemic and it has
>> been excellent.
>> Prescription renewals are ordered online and are approved by our GP who
>> essentially monitors the process.
>
> Not really. He authorises it and the prescription is electronically
> transmitted, after which it's out of his control.
>
When any drug is unavailable my GP gets the same email as I do
and looks for alternatives.
>
>> The parcel usually arrives within 48 hours.
>
> Do they use postal services or carriers? Many folk had problems when the
> industrial dinosaurs at the Post Office went on strike.

It comes via Royal Mail

On 7 Aug 2023 at 18:39:52 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 07/08/2023 16:24, SteveW wrote:
>>> Do you think robotic manufacturing techniques will shift the balance
>>> of advantage onshore?
>>
>> Not if UK business rates, high energy prices and taxes increase the
>> costs more than shipping does.
>
> Nail on head.
>

Not square on the head - cheap and (literally, in some cases) disposable
labour gives an enormous cost advantage for some overseas manufacturers. Not
that the UK is a paragon of virtue.

It's one of those things where the protectionism of the EU bloc worked in our
favour.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 08/08/2023 06:27, RJH wrote:

>
> It's one of those things where the protectionism of the EU bloc worked in our
> favour.
>

Strange then for the past 40 decades items at the cheaper end of the
market in the UK seem to be imported from outside of the EU.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk