On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 12:27:23 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:30:31 +0000 Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> Which is why we must ensure we never keep octopuses and orang-utans in
>> the same aquarium.
>> They will unite and replace us as top species.
>
> Jet propelled orang-utans - Eeek!

ITUM OOook

Avpx

--
'Just because you can explain it doesn't mean it's not still a
miracle.'
(Small Gods)
Mon 10422 Sep 13:35:01 GMT 1993
13:35:01 up 2 days, 2:56, 6 users, load average: 0.08, 0.42, 0.47

On 14-Mar-22 4:45, Mike Spencer wrote:
> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> writes:
>
>> In article <87h781v9ic.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>, Mike Spencer
>> <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> on Sun, 13 Mar 2022 at 18:16:11 awoke
>>> See: Sy Montgomery, The Soul of an Octopus, Atria (Simon & Schuster),
>>> 2015.
>>
>> Without remembering the details, I remember a programme on the idiot's
>> lantern made by one of Mike's compatriots (?) who lived on the West
>> Coast of Canada or, maybe, Alaska. He spent a winter with an octopus,
>> each getting to know each other. It was a delightful programme. The sad
>> part is that despite their intelligence octopuses have a relatively
>> short life, living long enough to bread just once.
>
> Perhaps if they would try to biscuit instead, it would be less
> debilitating and they would live longer.

Dunno. Loafing about on the sea bed doesn't sound too bad - any way you
slice it.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 14-Mar-22 13:07, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <20220314122723.bde0b03c66d5e65608603a86@eircom.net>, Ahem A
> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 12:27:23 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:30:31 +0000
>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Which is why we must ensure we never keep octopuses and orang-utans in
>>> the same aquarium.
>>> They will unite and replace us as top species.
>>
>> Jet propelled orang-utans - Eeek!
>>
> Would they be octo-utans or orang-pussies?

I for one wish to welcome our new multi-coloured, multi-armed overlords.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet said:
> On 14-Mar-22 13:07, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> In article <20220314122723.bde0b03c66d5e65608603a86@eircom.net>, Ahem A
>> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 12:27:23 awoke
>> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:30:31 +0000
>>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Which is why we must ensure we never keep octopuses and orang-utans in
>>>> the same aquarium.
>>>> They will unite and replace us as top species.
>>>
>>> Jet propelled orang-utans - Eeek!
>>>
>> Would they be octo-utans or orang-pussies?
>
> I for one wish to welcome our new multi-coloured, multi-armed overlords.

Not to mention the underwaterlords.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid.?.invalid> posted
>Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> Is this the famous log into this service using your google account thing?
>
>Yes, that's one of the ideas behind oauth2, but not in this case, where
>you're using a google account to login to gmail, so it's not going
>across providers, if you don't trust google to do that,

Huh? Do what?

>then you probably don't want to be using them fullstop

I don't particularly, but I need an e-mail account that is independent
of my ISP and can be accessed by Thunderbird and webmail. I do not want
2FA because I don't have a smartphone and I don't have a mobile signal
at my home. Can I do it by setting up Tbird to use oAuth2 to login to
gmail? What do I have to do?

--
Algernon

Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:

> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>
>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>
>>> Is this the famous log into this service using your google account thing?
>>
>> Yes, that's one of the ideas behind oauth2, but not in this case, where you're
>> using a google account to login to gmail, so it's not going across providers,
>> if you don't trust google to do that,
>
> Huh? Do what?

let google authenticate you to a different service

Tease'n'Seize wrote:

> Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
>
>> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>>
>>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is this the famous log into this service using your google account thing?
>>>
>>> Yes, that's one of the ideas behind oauth2, but not in this case, where
>>> you're using a google account to login to gmail, so it's not going across
>>> providers, if you don't trust google to do that,
>>
>> Huh? Do what?
>
> let google authenticate you to a different service

or even let google authenticate you to one of google's services

Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid.?.invalid> posted
>Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>
>> Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
>>
>>> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is this the famous log into this service using your google account thing?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's one of the ideas behind oauth2, but not in this case,
>>>>where you're using a google account to login to gmail, so it's not
>>>>going across providers, if you don't trust google to do that,
>>>
>>> Huh? Do what?
>> let google authenticate you to a different service
>
>or even let google authenticate you to one of google's services

I don't have a google account, except in the sense that I have a gmail
address and the corresponding login details.

I can't work out what I need to do to make this account survive the 31
May transition we are being warned about.

--
Algernon

On 15/03/2022 17:13, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
> Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid.?.invalid> posted
>> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>>
>>> Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this the famous log into this service using your google account
>>>>>> thing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's one of the ideas behind oauth2, but not in this case,
>>>>> where  you're using a google account to login to gmail, so it's not
>>>>> going across  providers, if you don't trust google to do that,
>>>>
>>>> Huh? Do what?
>>>  let google authenticate you to a different service
>>
>> or even let google authenticate you to one of google's services
>
> I don't have a google account, except in the sense that I have a gmail
> address and the corresponding login details.

You gmail account is effectively your google account and logging in to
gmail logs you in to all their other services.

HTH, Chris

Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:

> I don't have a google account, except in the sense that I have a gmail address
> and the corresponding login details.

That's a google account, you may only use it for gmail, but ...

> I can't work out what I need to do to make this account survive the 31 May
> transition we are being warned about.

If your thunderbird is sufficiently new, just set the authentication type for
the gmail account to oAuth2 ... job done.

n.b. sufficiently new for POP is somewhat newer than for IMAP.

On 14/03/2022 13:07, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <20220314122723.bde0b03c66d5e65608603a86@eircom.net>, Ahem A
> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 12:27:23 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:30:31 +0000
>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Which is why we must ensure we never keep octopuses and orang-utans in
>>> the same aquarium.
>>> They will unite and replace us as top species.
>>
>> Jet propelled orang-utans - Eeek!
>>
> Would they be octo-utans or orang-pussies?

I guess that would depend on their gender?

Tone

In article <t0v30c$lu0$3@dont-email.me>, Tone <email@address.com> on
Thu, 17 Mar 2022 at 10:37:06 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 14/03/2022 13:07, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>> In article <20220314122723.bde0b03c66d5e65608603a86@eircom.net>, Ahem A
>> Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> on Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 12:27:23 awoke
>> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:30:31 +0000
>>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Which is why we must ensure we never keep octopuses and orang-utans in
>>>> the same aquarium.
>>>> They will unite and replace us as top species.
>>>
>>> Jet propelled orang-utans - Eeek!
>>>
>> Would they be octo-utans or orang-pussies?
>
>I guess that would depend on their gender?
>
When I posted that, I had a response ready to mind, but it has gone out
of my mind. <sad face>
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 08/03/2022 08:26, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> I noticed an email from Gmail earlier, and it appears to be saying that
> programs like Outlook Express may no longer work after 10th May due to new
> security log in measures. Although it is not specific, that was what
> Understood. For those of us who still want to use a common interface client
> for news and Email, then I do not even know if Tbird will work. In the
> meantime I opened an outlook account, but after a lot of faffing about I did
> get sort of the web interface working but as usual for the blind its a
> tiresome slow mess, so I put in an account to Outlook Express with the
> correct server names and ports etc, but nothing happens. I am told I have to
> enable pop3 in my web mail page, but the settings button, menu or whatever
> is not obvious tabbing about, so has anyone done this? If you did, did it
> actually work in OE and if I tried to set one up in Yahoo, which seems to be
> the only other accessible free vendor of Email, am I going to have issues
> there as well.

Use a decent client which isn't targeted by all the script kiddies. I'd
suggest Thunderbird. It's pretty easy, intuitive, and free.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 09/03/2022 11:36, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> I've mo idea what it all means either. Surely if the connection is encrypted
> then there should be little need for more than a username and password. I
> seriously think Google want everyone to use webmail or their own smart phone
> client, since then you have to see their inane adverts that screw up the
> accessibility since they come from a third party feed and could drive a
> screenreader bonkers.
> Surely I don't have to buy Office latest version for email and use
> something else for news. I think, though that solution might well be better
> Brian
>
Just ditch Outpuke Express.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 09/03/2022 11:49, John Williamson wrote:

> The Google motto used to be "Do no evil", now it seems to be "All your
> data belong to us."
>
> The reason they want you to use their mail client and web mail is so
> they can sell the data on what you look at to their advertisers.

Dammit! I( meant to say something very similar...

I won't use Google - period. If other search Injuns choose to do so,
good luck to them as long as they don't plague me with google's
unsavoury tricks: if they do, PLONK!

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 18/03/2022 16:00, RustyHinge wrote:

> Use a decent client which isn't targeted by all the script kiddies. I'd
> suggest Thunderbird. It's pretty easy, intuitive, and free.
>
Brian's problem seems to be that, as he can't see the screen, he has a
sequence of memorised keystrokes and a screen reader interface which
work for Outhouse Excess, but very few of the other e-mail pogroms can
be worked without a gooey interface, and the ones I am aware of that
can, can't accurately display HTML mail.

Alpine, for instance, can be keyboard controlled, but can only show HTML
as text, and lacks functionality he needs.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 18/03/2022 17:20, John Williamson wrote:
> On 18/03/2022 16:00, RustyHinge wrote:
>
>> Use a decent client which isn't targeted by all the script kiddies. I'd
>> suggest Thunderbird. It's pretty easy, intuitive, and free.
>>
> Brian's problem seems to be that, as he can't see the screen, he has a
> sequence of memorised keystrokes and a screen reader interface which
> work for Outhouse Excess, but very few of the other e-mail pogroms can
> be worked without a gooey interface, and the ones I am aware of that
> can, can't accurately display HTML mail.

Ah, you mean a protocol-compliant pogroms.

> Alpine, for instance, can be keyboard controlled, but can only show HTML
> as text, and lacks functionality he needs.

I must look at it sometime. I've installed Thunderum not to display
HTML, and if I do get an HTML emu that I want to make an exception for,
(such as those from the department store Robert Dyas), I save it to a
dedicated folder and it goes there automagically when I hit save ~+ return.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 08/03/2022 21:56, Dave W wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 09:47:28 +0100, Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net>
> wrote:
>
> I can't see alt.comp.softwre.thunderbird using Agent.
> I was interested because recently Thunderbird has kept losing
> connection with my Yahoo account, but my Gmail and BT accounts are
> fine. This happens on both Windows and Linux. I've gone back to using
> a much earlier version of Thunderbird which behaves properly.

I'm using the latest stable release of Thunderguts with 64-bit Linux and
have no prombles with it at all. I'd look at Yahoo...

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid.?.invalid> posted
>Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
>> I can't work out what I need to do to make this account survive the
>>31 May transition we are being warned about.
>
>If your thunderbird is sufficiently new, just set the authentication
>type for the gmail account to oAuth2 ... job done.
>
>n.b. sufficiently new for POP is somewhat newer than for IMAP.

Using oAuth2 doesn't seem to work in Thunderbird, though "Normal
password" authentication does work if I have enabled 2FA and app
passwords in the Gmail settings. Unfortunately, though, having done
that, Google now phones me up every time I try to log in through
webmail.

--
Algernon

Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:

> Using oAuth2 doesn't seem to work in Thunderbird,
then I suggest your thunderbird isn't sufficiently new.

Nick Odell said:
>
> What really cvffrf zr bss is the
> creeping requirement to be a smartphone user in order to access public
> services - highlighted recently through the retreat into their
> fortresses of some medical, local authority and government services.

Yes.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:40:14 -0500, Richard Robinson
<richardR@privacy.net> wrote:

>Nick Odell said:
>>
>> What really cvffrf zr bss is the
>> creeping requirement to be a smartphone user in order to access public
>> services - highlighted recently through the retreat into their
>> fortresses of some medical, local authority and government services.
>
>Yes.

That was March 10. This is April 30. Has something just happened?

Nick

On 2022-04-30, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
> Nick Odell said:
>>
>> What really cvffrf zr bss is the
>> creeping requirement to be a smartphone user in order to access public
>> services - highlighted recently through the retreat into their
>> fortresses of some medical, local authority and government services.
>
> Yes.
>
I have reverted from smartphone to a more Nokiash model. Smartphones
are getting too powerful in our lives. My daughter needs hers on her
person to get into her apartment in Dublin.

--
greymausg@mail.com
It is I, alone, who can tell you.

On 30/04/2022 20:15, maus wrote:
> On 2022-04-30, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Nick Odell said:
>>>
>>> What really cvffrf zr bss is the
>>> creeping requirement to be a smartphone user in order to access public
>>> services - highlighted recently through the retreat into their
>>> fortresses of some medical, local authority and government services.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
> I have reverted from smartphone to a more Nokiash model. Smartphones
> are getting too powerful in our lives. My daughter needs hers on her
> person to get into her apartment in Dublin.
>
>

Refuse to do smartphones.

'Puters are fine.

Only just got my head around mobile phones.

Mine does phone calls, texts, and it is a torch.

Tone

Tone <tone@email.com> wrote in news:t4k45f$cdc$1@dont-email.me:

> On 30/04/2022 20:15, maus wrote:
>> On 2022-04-30, Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> Nick Odell said:
>>>>
>>>> What really cvffrf zr bss is the
>>>> creeping requirement to be a smartphone user in order to access public
>>>> services - highlighted recently through the retreat into their
>>>> fortresses of some medical, local authority and government services.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>> I have reverted from smartphone to a more Nokiash model. Smartphones
>> are getting too powerful in our lives. My daughter needs hers on her
>> person to get into her apartment in Dublin.
>>
>>
>
> Refuse to do smartphones.
>
> 'Puters are fine.
>
> Only just got my head around mobile phones.
>
> Mine does phone calls, texts, and it is a torch.

SWMBO likewise. In the event that something she wants done is easier on a
smartphone, she just tells me to do it on mine.

--
Peter
-----