AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(

Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a
few days of the 2 month trial.

Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune
up software.

Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!

My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up.
Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!

The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only
offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but
now 2 weeks old.

Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
--
Tim Lamb

On 15/08/2023 10:08 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:

> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>
> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
> noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a
> few days of the 2 month trial.
>
> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune
> up software.
>
> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>
> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up.
> Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>
> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only
> offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but
> now 2 weeks old.
>
> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?

It's a fag if you use it for NGs and have a sizeable killfile (which
would be lost), but uninstall Thunderbird, reinstall and re-create your
NGs and mail account?

Can you access your email account from any other device (in order to
check that it's all there)?

On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>
> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
> noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a
> few days of the 2 month trial.
>
> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune
> up software.
>
> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>
> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up.
> Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>
> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only
> offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but
> now 2 weeks old.

If you delete thunderbird it should not delete your data - however see
below for how to back that up.

> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?

Start by making a copy of your thunderbird profile. That will include
all mail an group postings up to the point you last successfully synced.

You will find your profile in :

%appdata%\thunderbird\profiles

(you can type the above into the address bar of a windows explorer window)

The %appdata% will automatically expand out to

C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles

(note that the AppData folder is normally hidden - so you won't see it
in the parent folder unless you have set the options to show hidden files)

The profile will be a folder names with a random character string and
..default on the end. You an make a copy of the whole folder in the place.

Then uninstall thunderbird and reinstall. See how that goes.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

In message <kk2g9gFnf5dU1@mid.individual.net>, JNugent
<jnugent@mail.com> writes
>On 15/08/2023 10:08 pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
>
>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
>>noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only
>>a few days of the 2 month trial.
>> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the
>>tune up software.
>> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune
>>up. Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which
>>only offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard
>>drive but now 2 weeks old.
>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>
>It's a fag if you use it for NGs and have a sizeable killfile (which
>would be lost), but uninstall Thunderbird, reinstall and re-create your
>NGs and mail account?

Hmm. Turnpike still does my newsgroups but ISTR the mail account needed
more skill than I have to set up.
>
>Can you access your email account from any other device (in order to
>check that it's all there)?

I can log in to web mail which is how I knew the tune up had caused a
problem with Thunderbird.
>

--
Tim Lamb

In message <ubhaqd$35fhp$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
>>noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only
>>a few days of the 2 month trial.
>> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the
>>tune up software.
>> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune
>>up. Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which
>>only offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard
>>drive but now 2 weeks old.
>
>If you delete thunderbird it should not delete your data - however see
>below for how to back that up.
>
>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>
>Start by making a copy of your thunderbird profile. That will include
>all mail an group postings up to the point you last successfully synced.
>
>You will find your profile in :
>
>%appdata%\thunderbird\profiles
>
>(you can type the above into the address bar of a windows explorer window)
>
>The %appdata% will automatically expand out to
>
>C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles
>
>
>(note that the AppData folder is normally hidden - so you won't see it
>in the parent folder unless you have set the options to show hidden
>files)
>
>The profile will be a folder names with a random character string and
>.default on the end. You an make a copy of the whole folder in the
>place.
>
>Then uninstall thunderbird and reinstall. See how that goes.

OK John. I can manage mail by other means FTTB. My neighbouring geek is
in Norfolk and I think it safest to wait for his return!
Thanks
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

Did the Tbird still work when the speed up tool was running OK?

Which tbird? I am led to believe that up to and including version 102, are
not trashed. Its the latest versions with the new codebase that are. Also,
it might be adventageous to have the portable version, not the installed
version on the machine.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tim Lamb" <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WAjqT1AwII3kFwR+@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk...
> In message <ubhaqd$35fhp$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>>> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
>>> noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a
>>> few days of the 2 month trial.
>>> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune
>>> up software.
>>> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>>> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up.
>>> Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>>> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only
>>> offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but
>>> now 2 weeks old.
>>
>>If you delete thunderbird it should not delete your data - however see
>>below for how to back that up.
>>
>>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>>
>>Start by making a copy of your thunderbird profile. That will include all
>>mail an group postings up to the point you last successfully synced.
>>
>>You will find your profile in :
>>
>>%appdata%\thunderbird\profiles
>>
>>(you can type the above into the address bar of a windows explorer window)
>>
>>The %appdata% will automatically expand out to
>>
>>C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles
>>
>>
>>(note that the AppData folder is normally hidden - so you won't see it in
>>the parent folder unless you have set the options to show hidden files)
>>
>>The profile will be a folder names with a random character string and
>>.default on the end. You an make a copy of the whole folder in the place.
>>
>>Then uninstall thunderbird and reinstall. See how that goes.
>
> OK John. I can manage mail by other means FTTB. My neighbouring geek is in
> Norfolk and I think it safest to wait for his return!
> Thanks
>>
>>
>
> --
> Tim Lamb

On 8/16/2023 4:00 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ubhaqd$35fhp$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>> On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>>>  Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or noticeably better
>>> so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a  few days of the 2 month trial.
>>>  Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune  up software.
>>>  Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>>>  My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up.  Now Thunderbird
>>> is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>>>  The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only  offers to delete.
>>> I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but  now 2 weeks old.
>>
>> If you delete thunderbird it should not delete your data - however see below for how to back that up.
>>
>>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>>
>> Start by making a copy of your thunderbird profile. That will include all mail and
>> group postings up to the point you last successfully synced.
>>
>> You will find your profile in :
>>
>> %appdata%\thunderbird\profiles
>>
>> (you can type the above into the address bar of a windows explorer window)
>>
>> The %appdata% will automatically expand out to
>>
>> C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles
>>
>>
>> (note that the AppData folder is normally hidden - so you won't see it in the parent folder
>> unless you have set the options to show hidden files)
>>
>> The profile will be a folder names with a random character string and .default on the end.
>> You an make a copy of the whole folder in the place.
>>
>> Then uninstall thunderbird and reinstall. See how that goes.
>
> OK John. I can manage mail by other means FTTB. My neighbouring geek is in Norfolk and
> I think it safest to wait for his return!
> Thanks

Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function
to remove the tune up software. "Programs and Features ???"
or did you use File Explorer and delete
something from C:\Program Files ???

My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up. Is this System Restore ??? Did you use
a restore point ??? It's surprising the
Tuneup software did not remove all the
Restore points, to save space :-/

The *repair* function is unavailable from my
control panel which only offers to delete. At this point, what are you trying to repair ? It
sounds like we're back in "Programs and Feature" control panel.
Either we're repairing AVG Tuneup (which has suffered some sort
of tragedy at this point), or, we're trying to repair
Thunderbird.

1) I don't want you to do anything at this point.

Taking a backup of the system, before you started your attempts,
might have given your geek friend more materials to work with
on his return.

2) It's not clear which OS you're using. It's possible you were on Win8
at some point. Perhaps Win8.1 32-bit ? Or maybe you have upgraded to Win10,
or Microsoft jammed that software into the machine for their own enjoyment.

Start : Run : winver # This reports the numeric OS version and other info

win7 7601
win8 9200
win8.1 9600
win10 10240 thru 19045
win11 22000 and 22621 (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions )

3) Programs and Features, offers options for each program, as a function of the
program installer type, and what installation files got cached. You lose the "Repair"
function, if the cached .msi file got removed. Something a Tuneup software might remove,
if it had been taking Crack Cocaine the night before.

Thunderbird should have a Help function with an "About" entry, so you can get version info.
For example, mine says "52.3.0 (32-bit)"

But since yours has been "reported as having a Virus", it is probably ruined at
this point. Look for the file "compatibility.ini" which Thunderbird has saved, as
a record of the version.

C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird <=== edit and paste the string into File Explorer box
profiles.ini
Profiles\
fknwxki0.default\ <=== each install uses a different string
compatibility.ini

The file content of compatibility.ini looks like this:

[Compatibility]
LastVersion=52.3.0_20170815040357/20170815040357 <=== see, my version is 52.3.0, just like Help said it was
LastOSABI=WINNT_x86-msvc
LastPlatformDir=C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Thunderbird
LastAppDir=C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Thunderbird
InvalidateCaches=1

To get a matching installer to Repair with, I would go here:
I have picked the folder for my needs. You can navigate this webpage
to select other versions.

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/52.3.0/win32/en-GB/
Thunderbird Setup 52.3.0.exe 38M 13-Feb-2023 03:30

If you see an EXE and a MSI in the download folder offered, the EXE contains
an MSI inside it. During installation of the EXE, a cached copy of the
MSI can be made in a system folder (but, with the file name obfuscated
with a five character string instead of the proper name).

Thunderbird is one of the few programs, that keeps all the versions (on the website).
With some work, you can also stop it from updating ("policies.json").

As long as the Thunderbird "compatibility.ini" file has not been erased,
you can figure out the correct version to Repair with, from the website.

Paul

On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>
> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
> noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a
> few days of the 2 month trial.
>
> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune
> up software.
>
> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>
> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up.
> Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>
> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only
> offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but
> now 2 weeks old.
>
> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?

When you say, "system delete function" do you mean uninstall from the
"Add or Remove Programs" in Setup? If so that should have initiated the
AVG's own uninstaller.

In message <ubi6t3$38pej$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 8/16/2023 4:00 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ubhaqd$35fhp$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
>><see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>> On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>>>>  Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster
>>>>or noticeably better
>>>> so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a  few days
>>>>of the 2 month trial.
>>>>  Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the
>>>>tune  up software.
>>>>  Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>>>>  My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune
>>>>up.  Now Thunderbird
>>>> is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>>>>  The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which
>>>>only  offers to delete.
>>>> I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but  now 2 weeks old.
>>>
>>> If you delete thunderbird it should not delete your data - however
>>>see below for how to back that up.
>>>
>>>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>>>
>>> Start by making a copy of your thunderbird profile. That will
>>>include all mail and
>>> group postings up to the point you last successfully synced.
>>>
>>> You will find your profile in :
>>>
>>> %appdata%\thunderbird\profiles
>>>
>>> (you can type the above into the address bar of a windows explorer window)
>>>
>>> The %appdata% will automatically expand out to
>>>
>>> C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles
>>>
>>>
>>> (note that the AppData folder is normally hidden - so you won't see
>>>it in the parent folder
>>> unless you have set the options to show hidden files)
>>>
>>> The profile will be a folder names with a random character string
>>>and .default on the end.
>>> You an make a copy of the whole folder in the place.
>>>
>>> Then uninstall thunderbird and reinstall. See how that goes.
>>
>> OK John. I can manage mail by other means FTTB. My neighbouring geek
>>is in Norfolk and
>> I think it safest to wait for his return!
>> Thanks
>
>Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function
>to remove the tune up software. "Programs and
>Features ???"

Yes.

I went back this morning and *bravely* asked to delete Thunderbird.
System reported the file was perhaps already deleted. Brian has
suggested the *tune up software does this:-(
The version of Thunderbird I have just reinstalled is 115.1.1

My system is W7.0 pro 32bit.

T'bird seems OK so I'll not hurt my brain by trying anything else
clever!

Thanks Paul

--
Tim Lamb

In message <ubi9uf$396lj$1@dont-email.me>, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid>
writes
>On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
>>noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only
>>a few days of the 2 month trial.
>> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the
>>tune up software.
>> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune
>>up. Now Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which
>>only offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard
>>drive but now 2 weeks old.
>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>
>When you say, "system delete function" do you mean uninstall from the
>"Add or Remove Programs" in Setup? If so that should have initiated the
>AVG's own uninstaller.

Indeed. All good now. Ta.
>
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

In message <ubi670$38m70$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
>Did the Tbird still work when the speed up tool was running OK?

No.
>
>Which tbird? I am led to believe that up to and including version 102, are
>not trashed. Its the latest versions with the new codebase that are. Also,
>it might be adventageous to have the portable version, not the installed
>version on the machine.

The version I have just installed is 115.1.1 Seems OK although a little
different from what I had been using.

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:

> The version I have just installed is 115.1.1  Seems OK although a little
> different from what I had been using.

if you're interested in a few tweaks you can get it looking pretty
similar to v103.x

goto Settings > Config editor

create a boolean entry for
"toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets"
and set it to true

Hamburger > Help > Troubleshooting Info

Adjacent to Profile folder, click Open folder

if you don't have a "chrome" folder in there , create one

if you don't have a "userChrome.css" file in the chrome folder, create it

on linux, the folder and filenames are case sensitive

edit the .css file and pick and choose one or more of the snippets below
to taste

Quit and restart TB to take effect

===============================

/* hide the spaces tab button at left end of the main toolbar
you can see the spaces bar by the |<- and ->| buttons bottom left */

#spacesPinnedButton
{
display:none
}

/* make the message header grey, with separator black lines */

#messageHeader
{
background:lightgrey;
border-top: 2px black solid;
border-bottom: 2px black solid;
}

/* hide all the buttons in the message header toolbar */

#header-view-toolbar
{
display: none !important
}

/* move the menubar above the toolbar
doesn't play nice with Settings > Hide System Window Titlebar */

#toolbar-menubar
{
order:-1
}

/* put the quickfilterbar icons back to the order they used to be */

#qfb-qs-textbox
{
order:2;
max-width: none !important;
}

In message <kk3s57FtathU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
>Tim Lamb wrote:
>
>> The version I have just installed is 115.1.1  Seems OK although a
>>little different from what I had been using.
>
>if you're interested in a few tweaks you can get it looking pretty
>similar to v103.x

Andy. With my level of competence, this is best left well alone:-)

--
Tim Lamb

Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes this is
inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows. Both systems used
to have uninstallers on their web sites that had to be run in safe mode, and
in one case as a kind of alternate operating system. You would find that you
had the machine shut down then boot into the dtemp system at which point it
could access the windows files. The problem I found was that if anything had
been done already, it still resulted in broken software as it was busted by
trying to get rid of it I thereafter used Erunt, which seems not to run on
Windows 10l , but does in 7, every day as a process as it saved registry
copies and hence anything which had been altered could be put back again by
it once the or AVG had been removed by the stand alone uninstaller.

Another program to be careful of is anything that cleans the registry. Some
installers do not register the links properly, making them look th registry
cleaners like they are not used, but they are.
There is normally an ignore file which you can edit to remove things, if
you know about them. Some of the wb sites like major geeks can help with
exclusion files.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tim Lamb" <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6WtB2yAOl+2kFwdf@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk...
> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>
> Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or
> noticeably better so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a
> few days of the 2 month trial.
>
> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune up
> software.
>
> Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>
> My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up. Now
> Thunderbird is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>
> The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only
> offers to delete. I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but now
> 2 weeks old.
>
> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
> --
> Tim Lamb

On 16/08/2023 15:56, Brian Gaff wrote:

> Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes this is
> inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
> registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows. Both systems used
> to have uninstallers on their web sites that had to be run in safe mode, and

The AVG uninstaller is here:

https://www.avg.com/en-gb/avg-remover#pc

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 16/08/2023 15:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes this is
> inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
> registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows.

For a short while I used the AVG free version to do a scan and had no
issue in uninstalling it.

In fact the only scanner that found a genuine problem, an addon for
Chrome containing a trojan, was Kaspersky.

In message <ubirem$3bqin$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>On 16/08/2023 15:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes this is
>> inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
>> registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows. Both systems used
>> to have uninstallers on their web sites that had to be run in safe mode, and
>
>The AVG uninstaller is here:
>
>https://www.avg.com/en-gb/avg-remover#pc

I hope it has gone!

Do you have any views on which version of T'bird would best suit my set
up? W7 pro 32bit.

Signing in to Webmail with V 115 is a pain.

Presumably I can remove this as before and replace with an earlier
version from file Hippo?
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 16/08/2023 17:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ubirem$3bqin$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>> On 16/08/2023 15:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>
>>> Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes
>>> this is
>>> inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
>>> registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows. Both systems
>>> used
>>> to have uninstallers on their web sites that had to be run in safe
>>> mode, and
>>
>> The AVG uninstaller is here:
>>
>> https://www.avg.com/en-gb/avg-remover#pc
>
> I hope it has gone!
>
> Do you have any views on which version of T'bird would best suit my set
> up? W7 pro 32bit.

I think 115 is the last version that will support Win 7, 8, & 8.1

> Signing in to Webmail with V 115 is a pain.

What has changed? What kind of webmail?

> Presumably I can remove this as before and replace with an earlier
> version from file Hippo?

You need to be slightly careful going back too far since the file
structures are upgraded with some versions, and so won't be compatible
with older ones. Check the release notes.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 8/16/2023 7:41 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ubi6t3$38pej$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>> On 8/16/2023 4:00 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <ubhaqd$35fhp$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>>> On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>>>>>  Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear faster or noticeably better
>>>>>  so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a  few days of the 2 month trial.
>>>>>  Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove the tune  up software.
>>>>>  Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>>>>>  My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the tune up.  Now Thunderbird
>>>>>  is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>>>>>  The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which only  offers to delete.
>>>>>  I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but  now 2 weeks old.
>>>>
>>>> If you delete thunderbird it should not delete your data - however see below for how to back that up.
>>>>
>>>>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>>>>
>>>> Start by making a copy of your thunderbird profile. That will include all mail and
>>>> group postings up to the point you last successfully synced.
>>>>
>>>> You will find your profile in :
>>>>
>>>> %appdata%\thunderbird\profiles
>>>>
>>>> (you can type the above into the address bar of a windows explorer window)
>>>>
>>>> The %appdata% will automatically expand out to
>>>>
>>>> C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (note that the AppData folder is normally hidden - so you won't see it in the parent folder
>>>>  unless you have set the options to show hidden files)
>>>>
>>>> The profile will be a folder names with a random character string and .default on the end.
>>>> You an make a copy of the whole folder in the place.
>>>>
>>>> Then uninstall thunderbird and reinstall. See how that goes.
>>>
>>> OK John. I can manage mail by other means FTTB. My neighbouring geek is in Norfolk and
>>> I think it safest to wait for his return!
>>> Thanks
>>
>> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function
>> to remove the tune up software.                        "Programs and Features ???"
>
> Yes.
>
> I went back this morning and *bravely* asked to delete Thunderbird. System reported the file was perhaps already deleted. Brian has suggested the *tune up software does this:-(
> The version of Thunderbird I have just reinstalled is 115.1.1
>
> My system is W7.0 pro 32bit.
>
> T'bird seems OK so I'll not hurt my brain by trying anything else clever!
>
> Thanks Paul
>

That's Thunderbird SuperNova version, which is a new stream of software.

The "regular" version has a lower version number, and as of today,
I don't think the "regular" jumps to "SuperNova" on its own. 115 is SuperNova.

Regular might be 102.14.0 or so, using my calibrated eyeball against the download page.
The values between 102 and 115 are all in beta, which means 103 has not
been released yet, as a Regular version.

For more information, it would be a topic of active discussion, here.
I would not want to say anything nasty, about software I have not
thoroughly tested.

alt.comp.software.thunderbird

The reason I explained about Compatibility.ini file, was to prevent
you from accidentally stepping in poo :-) By getting you to match
your current Thunderbird version, even if the updater went crazy, it would have
stopped at 102.14.0 .

As long as what you installed works, don't sweat it :-)

But I feel it's only fair to explain what Mozilla is up to.
SuperNova will someday have "paid additions", and SuperNova
is part of a "business plan" they have. But their business plan
is not overly aggressive, so this won't be turned into Office 365 rental
or anything. It's not that kind of scheme. They are not ruthless villains,
so they're never going to be rich at this rate.

Paul

In message <ubj4fb$3d94q$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>On 16/08/2023 17:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ubirem$3bqin$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
>><see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>> On 16/08/2023 15:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes
>>>>this is
>>>> inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
>>>> registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows. Both
>>>>systems used
>>>> to have uninstallers on their web sites that had to be run in safe
>>>>mode, and
>>>
>>> The AVG uninstaller is here:
>>>
>>> https://www.avg.com/en-gb/avg-remover#pc
>> I hope it has gone!
>> Do you have any views on which version of T'bird would best suit my
>>set up? W7 pro 32bit.
>
>I think 115 is the last version that will support Win 7, 8, & 8.1

Sadly I don't know which version got lost.
>
>> Signing in to Webmail with V 115 is a pain.

er. With the demise of Demon, I signed up with Namesco. Microsoft
Webmail came with the package. Useful when away from home using an i-pad
etc. Clicking the *get messages* button in 115 brings up a web mail sign
in page and tries to fetch mail from a rarely used Google account:-(
>
>What has changed? What kind of webmail?
>
>> Presumably I can remove this as before and replace with an earlier
>>version from file Hippo?
>
>You need to be slightly careful going back too far since the file
>structures are upgraded with some versions, and so won't be compatible
>with older ones. Check the release notes.
Ooh. Technical! Might be best left until the neighbour is back. He wants
some firewood for his Pizza oven:-)
>

--
Tim Lamb

In message <ubj6p6$3dlir$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 8/16/2023 7:41 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ubi6t3$38pej$1@dont-email.me>, Paul
>><nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>>> On 8/16/2023 4:00 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> In message <ubhaqd$35fhp$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
>>>><see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>>>> On 15/08/2023 22:08, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>> AVG offered a *tune up* trial so I signed up:-(
>>>>>>  Apart from a few inconsequentials my system did not appear
>>>>>>faster or noticeably better
>>>>>>  so I went through the procedure to cancel after only a  few days
>>>>>>of the 2 month trial.
>>>>>>  Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function to remove
>>>>>>the tune  up software.
>>>>>>  Thunderbird promptly stopped collecting mail!
>>>>>>  My next move was a system *scroll back* to a date before the
>>>>>>tune up.  Now Thunderbird
>>>>>>  is unable to open as it is said to contain a virus!
>>>>>>  The *repair* function is unavailable from my control panel which
>>>>>>only  offers to delete.
>>>>>>  I have my data backed up on a plug in hard drive but  now 2 weeks old.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you delete thunderbird it should not delete your data - however
>>>>>see below for how to back that up.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any thoughts before I cock something else up?
>>>>>
>>>>> Start by making a copy of your thunderbird profile. That will
>>>>>include all mail and
>>>>> group postings up to the point you last successfully synced.
>>>>>
>>>>> You will find your profile in :
>>>>>
>>>>> %appdata%\thunderbird\profiles
>>>>>
>>>>> (you can type the above into the address bar of a windows explorer window)
>>>>>
>>>>> The %appdata% will automatically expand out to
>>>>>
>>>>> C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (note that the AppData folder is normally hidden - so you won't
>>>>>see it in the parent folder
>>>>>  unless you have set the options to show hidden files)
>>>>>
>>>>> The profile will be a folder names with a random character string
>>>>>and .default on the end.
>>>>> You an make a copy of the whole folder in the place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then uninstall thunderbird and reinstall. See how that goes.
>>>>
>>>> OK John. I can manage mail by other means FTTB. My neighbouring
>>>>geek is in Norfolk and
>>>> I think it safest to wait for his return!
>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Perhaps foolishly I used the system delete function
>>> to remove the tune up software.                        "Programs and
>>>Features ???"
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> I went back this morning and *bravely* asked to delete Thunderbird.
>>System reported the file was perhaps already deleted. Brian has
>>suggested the *tune up software does this:-(
>> The version of Thunderbird I have just reinstalled is 115.1.1
>>
>> My system is W7.0 pro 32bit.
>>
>> T'bird seems OK so I'll not hurt my brain by trying anything else clever!
>>
>> Thanks Paul
>>
>
>That's Thunderbird SuperNova version, which is a new stream of software.

Oh dear!
>
>The "regular" version has a lower version number, and as of today,
>I don't think the "regular" jumps to "SuperNova" on its own. 115 is SuperNova.
>
>Regular might be 102.14.0 or so, using my calibrated eyeball against
>the download page.
>The values between 102 and 115 are all in beta, which means 103 has not
>been released yet, as a Regular version.
>
>For more information, it would be a topic of active discussion, here.
>I would not want to say anything nasty, about software I have not
>thoroughly tested.
>
> alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>
>The reason I explained about Compatibility.ini file, was to prevent
>you from accidentally stepping in poo :-) By getting you to match
>your current Thunderbird version, even if the updater went crazy, it would have
>stopped at 102.14.0 .
>
>As long as what you installed works, don't sweat it :-)

I could try going back to say 102.4.2 now
>
>But I feel it's only fair to explain what Mozilla is up to.
>SuperNova will someday have "paid additions", and SuperNova
>is part of a "business plan" they have. But their business plan
>is not overly aggressive, so this won't be turned into Office 365 rental
>or anything. It's not that kind of scheme. They are not ruthless villains,
>so they're never going to be rich at this rate.

I guess their occasional pleas don't open many wallets. Thanks for the
tip.
>
> Paul

--
Tim Lamb

On 8/16/2023 3:29 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:

>
> I could try going back to say 102.4.2 now

I would recommend just leaving it.

As long as it behaves, it's not a big deal. And
I would expect it to behave for email.

Paul

Tim Lamb wrote:

> I could try going back to say 102.4.2 now

I wouldn't, your profile might not be backwards compatible, and besides
v102.x will be upgraded to v115.x in a month or so, it's just that by
manually downloading you git it early, I've been running it and no real
problems ... I prefer the old look&feel with those tweaks I mentioned.

On 16/08/2023 20:16, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ubj4fb$3d94q$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>> On 16/08/2023 17:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <ubirem$3bqin$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
>>> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>>> On 16/08/2023 15:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes
>>>>> this is
>>>>> inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
>>>>> registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows. Both
>>>>> systems  used
>>>>> to have uninstallers on their web sites that had to be run in safe
>>>>> mode, and
>>>>
>>>> The AVG uninstaller is here:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.avg.com/en-gb/avg-remover#pc
>>>  I hope it has gone!
>>>  Do you have any views on which version of T'bird would best suit my
>>> set  up? W7 pro 32bit.
>>
>> I think 115 is the last version that will support Win 7, 8, & 8.1
>
> Sadly I don't know which version got lost.

If you were on the regular update channel, then probably 102.

>>> Signing in to Webmail with V 115 is a pain.
>
> er. With the demise of Demon, I signed up with Namesco. Microsoft
> Webmail came with the package. Useful when away from home using an i-pad
> etc. Clicking the *get messages* button in 115 brings up a web mail sign
> in page and tries to fetch mail from a rarely used Google account:-(

That just sounds like you have an account set to access a gmail account
via IMAP/POP3. You can do that, but only if you have enabled permission
for it in the settings in gmail, and also the email client will need to
be able to handle OAuth2 authentication (which will bring up a web style
login the first time you use it). TB can do that.

Have a look on the Accounts... page and see what accounts are listed on
the left hand side.

Microsoft exchange / 365 mail accounts can be accessed online or in many
cases with local apps. On the PC that would probably need to be Outlook
if you want to use MS Exchange protocols for full access and take
advantage of contacts and calendars stored along with the mailbox, or
you can also usually access them via SMTP/POP3/IMAP as well (with either
local contacts and calendar or third party tools for syncing contacts
and calendars)

>>> Presumably I can remove this as before and replace with an earlier
>>> version from file Hippo?
>>
>> You need to be slightly careful going back too far since the file
>> structures are upgraded with some versions, and so won't be compatible
>> with older ones. Check the release notes.

> Ooh. Technical! Might be best left until the neighbour is back. He wants
> some firewood for his Pizza oven:-)

It does not sound like you will have a problem - ISTR it was around
version 92 that there was a profile file format change.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 8/16/2023 3:16 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ubj4fb$3d94q$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>> On 16/08/2023 17:37, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <ubirem$3bqin$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>>> On 16/08/2023 15:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes don't ever use AVG or its sister anti virus again.. What causes this is
>>>>> inability for the uninstaller to write the correct values back to the
>>>>> registry, due to it being so deeply embedded in Windows. Both systems  used
>>>>> to have uninstallers on their web sites that had to be run in safe mode, and
>>>>
>>>> The AVG uninstaller is here:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.avg.com/en-gb/avg-remover#pc
>>>  I hope it has gone!
>>>  Do you have any views on which version of T'bird would best suit my set  up? W7 pro 32bit.
>>
>> I think 115 is the last version that will support Win 7, 8, & 8.1
>
> Sadly I don't know which version got lost.
>>
>>> Signing in to Webmail with V 115 is a pain.
>
> er. With the demise of Demon, I signed up with Namesco. Microsoft Webmail came with the package. Useful when away from home using an i-pad etc. Clicking the *get messages* button in 115 brings up a web mail sign in page and tries to fetch mail from a rarely used Google account:-(
>>
>> What has changed? What kind of webmail?
>>
>>> Presumably I can remove this as before and replace with an earlier version from file Hippo?
>>
>> You need to be slightly careful going back too far since the file structures are upgraded with some versions, and so won't be compatible with older ones. Check the release notes.
> Ooh. Technical! Might be best left until the neighbour is back. He wants some firewood for his Pizza oven:-)
>>
>

The behavior you see, could be OAUTH2 authentication method. This is where
they require a client program to present a web interface, just for authentication,
then the mechanical bits of message transfer can revert to whatever transport
was used previously. The transport could be something else, like POP3 or IMAP,
and the mechanical process could be done with plain win32 code. The HTTP part, is
just during signin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAuth

Normally, you would have to configure something on your provider site,
to select an authentication method. It should not change randomly on you.

Thunderbird profiles easily support forward migration (102 to 115).

Going backwards, some of the files have ABI changes.
For example, looking in my profile folder for "sketchy" material yields

cert8.db
key3.db

When you change versions, perhaps the migration logic changes cert7.db to cert8.db
and there could be an internal format change.

When a file has a number on the end, in that fashion, it could be a trouble-maker.

Then, it's up to us, to discover what things rely on those Berkeley Database files.

You can see that cert8.db is a copy of a certificate store. Here, some people monkey
with the certificate store (perhaps IT people would do this). There should be a
default certificate store of its very own, provided in every copy of Thunderbird.
This means, when you install Thunderbird, odds are good that a functional cert
will be put there for you. You should not have to worry about this, except later
in the day when you manually add some LetsEncrypt thing to it. If you need to add
stuff, you can do that later on, and Thunderbird has a GUI for adding certs.

https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/create-cert8db-file-using-certutil-tool-cognos-analytics-111x-ldaps-namespace

That leaves what is stored in a keyn.db .

And that seems to involve the signin process, which is why perhaps
you were presented with an alternative (undesired) method.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1076170

key3.db encryption key for passwords

logins.json encrypted names and passwords (automated signin) -- cannot read without key3.db

signons.sqlite no longer used since Firefox 32 (Thunderbird is based on Firefox code...)

There have been multiple iterations of methods, as Mozilla improves its understanding
of security.

logins.json *could* be opened in Notepad.exe , but it will be "Greek" in there.
I have not copied any of the Greek parts, which would be pointless.

This is part of a logins.json .

{"nextId":2,"logins":[{"id":1,"hostname":"news://news.eternal-september.org",
"httpRealm":"news://news.eternal-september.org",
"formSubmitURL":null, <=== a place to stuff OAUTH2 instead as a method ?
"usernameField":"",
"passwordField":"",
"encryptedUsername":

As long as you can visit a backup of your C: drive , from relatively
recently, perhaps a key3.db and a logins.json could be used from there.
No guarantees of course, as this is a ticklish part of Thunderbird.

I've lost my password a number of times over the years, with the silly design of the thing.

*******

There is a procedure for going backwards. First, I look for a breadcrumb.

How to revert from 102 to 91

1) Backup your profile, just in case. ...
2) Download thunderbird legacy 91 (currently 91.11 and worked).
3) Install and overwrite previous version' files.
4) Run with command-line parameter --allow-downgrade commandline. <=== this is what we need to research

https://borncity.com/win/2022/09/08/thunderbird-102-2-2-freigegeben/

"Tip: Going back to an old Thunderbird version after updating to a newer version is rejected
if the profile is updated (see also). I fell into this trap some time ago.

With an updated profile a downgrade is only possible with tricks by starting Thunderbird
with the –allow-downgrade option (see also).
"

I think what this means is (right after the older thunderbird.exe has been installed) :

thunderbird.exe -p –allow-downgrade

That's not magical. It just allows the selection of older material if you still have it.

If two profiles are in the profile folder, one a different version than
the other, this allows thunderbird.exe to edit its profiles.ini and
use the user-selected older profile which has just been copied out of
a backup and placed for this usage, in the Profiles folder.

It does not do, what I thought it did, which is it automatically moves a profile
backwards (cert8.db to cert7.db or the like). I don't think it does that.

If the new profile had cert8.db in it, and the old (recovered) profile had cert7.db,
it allows thunderbird to select the older profile, without prematurely bailing out on the user.

In other words, with some hand editing of content, you could convince Thunderbird
to "point" to an older folder, right after you just installed an older version .

Thunderbird does not "sniff" for cert8 or cert7. It starts by "sniffing" the
Compatibility.ini file. This is how it can tell if you're moving forward (good)
or moving backwards (bad, will bail).

And you can see now, how the effort to write convoluted software,
turns my answers into a copy of fucking "War and Peace".

Maybe your geek friend can work on this aspect when he is available.
There is a mechanism, but I suspect it's fairly lame and not all that useful
unless a user is very well prepared for disasters (backups and backups and backups).

You could look in the Thunderbird logins.json and see if the structure
is requesting OAUTH2 or not. If the "formSubmitURL" is not NULL, that's
how they're setting you to OAUTH2. In the old days, an authentication failure
caused the password in logins.json to be cleared, and you would be pestered
to manually enter the correct password (an ordinary password box, not OAUTH2 style).

My example was extracted from something which is not using OAUTH2.

Paul