I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:

5 year warranty £0.00
Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
Home electrical cover £42.12
Other charges - amount paid for previous
products removed from agreement £264.67
Total yearly price £367.84

I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:

That's not a utility, that's British Gas flogging boilers and service
contracts. It's likely a different subsidiary and not covered by
regulations for utilities.

> 5 year warranty £0.00
> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
> Home electrical cover £42.12
> Other charges - amount paid for previous
> products removed from agreement £264.67
> Total yearly price £367.84
>
> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.

It's hard to understand the exact charges without the context, but this
sounds like they're trying to upselling him on an annual service+insurance
contract, at a ridiculous price.

The warranty shouldn't require any extra payment, although it may require
annual servicing - check the small print. I'm not sure whether they are
legally allowed to force you to buy the servicing from them, or whether
another appropriately trained person can do it to maintain the warranty.

Theo

On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>
> 5 year warranty £0.00
> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
> Home electrical cover £42.12
> Other charges - amount paid for previous
> products removed from agreement £264.67
> Total yearly price £367.84
>
> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.

It looks as if your friend has not got the manufactures boiler warranty
but has been mis-sold an expensive maintenance contract that the utility
companies are so keen to push because they get so much in commission.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/09/2023 12:06, alan_m wrote:
> On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
>> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
>> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
>> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>>
>> 5 year warranty                                            £0.00
>> Plumbing and drains cover                           £61.05
>> Home electrical cover                                  £42.12
>> Other charges - amount paid for previous
>> products removed from agreement              £264.67
>> Total yearly price                                       £367.84
>>
>> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
>> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
>> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
>> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
>> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.
>
> It looks as if your friend has not got the manufactures boiler warranty
> but has been mis-sold an expensive maintenance contract that the utility
> companies are so keen to push because they get so much in commission.
>
>
>
>
and drains seldom need fixing

On 03/09/2023 12:33, jim.gm4dhj wrote:
> On 03/09/2023 12:06, alan_m wrote:
>> On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
>>> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
>>> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
>>> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>>>
>>> 5 year warranty                                            £0.00
>>> Plumbing and drains cover                           £61.05
>>> Home electrical cover                                  £42.12
>>> Other charges - amount paid for previous
>>> products removed from agreement              £264.67
>>> Total yearly price                                       £367.84
>>>
>>> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
>>> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
>>> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
>>> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
>>> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.
>>
>> It looks as if your friend has not got the manufactures boiler
>> warranty but has been mis-sold an expensive maintenance contract that
>> the utility companies are so keen to push because they get so much in
>> commission.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> and drains seldom need fixing

Mine have needed to be cleared twice in the past five years, once due to
roots invading the pipes and once because somebody put Kleenex tissues
down the pan, which lodged at a bend and blocked the pipe.

--
Colin Bignell

On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>
> 5 year warranty £0.00
> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
> Home electrical cover £42.12
> Other charges - amount paid for previous
> products removed from agreement £264.67
> Total yearly price £367.84
>
> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.

Need to see those figures in the context of the rest of the letter
(Homecare contract?) -and preferably also the previous one. But cd be
they contracted for cover for a year which included the old boiler and
has to pay for that for the rest of the contract period even though the
new boiler needs no cover.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 03 Sep 2023 11:55:02 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
>> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
>> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>
>That's not a utility, that's British Gas flogging boilers and service
>contracts. It's likely a different subsidiary and not covered by
>regulations for utilities.
>
>> 5 year warranty £0.00
>> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
>> Home electrical cover £42.12
>> Other charges - amount paid for previous
>> products removed from agreement £264.67
>> Total yearly price £367.84
>>
>> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
>> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
>> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
>> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
>> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.
>
>It's hard to understand the exact charges without the context, but this
>sounds like they're trying to upselling him on an annual service+insurance
>contract, at a ridiculous price.

I appreciate that but I didn't want to post the bill for GDPR reasons
as it is not mine.

>The warranty shouldn't require any extra payment, although it may require
>annual servicing - check the small print. I'm not sure whether they are
>legally allowed to force you to buy the servicing from them, or whether
>another appropriately trained person can do it to maintain the warranty.
>
I think the servicing is free in year 1. I cannot imagine what
'amount paid for previous products removed from agreement' is supposed
to mean in the context of a replacement boiler.

On Sun, 3 Sep 2023 12:06:50 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
>> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
>> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
>> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>>
>> 5 year warranty £0.00
>> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
>> Home electrical cover £42.12
>> Other charges - amount paid for previous
>> products removed from agreement £264.67
>> Total yearly price £367.84
>>
>> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
>> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
>> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
>> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
>> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.
>
>It looks as if your friend has not got the manufactures boiler warranty
>but has been mis-sold an expensive maintenance contract that the utility
>companies are so keen to push because they get so much in commission.

??? But it says the cost of the warranty is £0.00 so what is it they
are purporting to have sold?

On Sun, 3 Sep 2023 16:01:11 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
>> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
>> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
>> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>>
>> 5 year warranty £0.00
>> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
>> Home electrical cover £42.12
>> Other charges - amount paid for previous
>> products removed from agreement £264.67
>> Total yearly price £367.84
>>
>> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
>> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
>> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
>> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
>> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.
>
>Need to see those figures in the context of the rest of the letter
>(Homecare contract?) -and preferably also the previous one. But cd be
>they contracted for cover for a year which included the old boiler and
>has to pay for that for the rest of the contract period even though the
>new boiler needs no cover.

£264 seems a lot for a part year. Far from paying for the rest of the
contract, he also says he received a refund for the unused portion.

On 05/09/2023 14:06, Scott wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Sep 2023 12:06:50 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
>>> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
>>> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
>>> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>>>
>>> 5 year warranty £0.00
>>> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
>>> Home electrical cover £42.12
>>> Other charges - amount paid for previous
>>> products removed from agreement £264.67
>>> Total yearly price £367.84
>>>
>>> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
>>> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
>>> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
>>> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
>>> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.
>>
>> It looks as if your friend has not got the manufactures boiler warranty
>> but has been mis-sold an expensive maintenance contract that the utility
>> companies are so keen to push because they get so much in commission.
>
> ??? But it says the cost of the warranty is £0.00 so what is it they
> are purporting to have sold?

Many boiler manufacturers are offering a 10 year warranty for 'free'.
The gotcha is that it has to be serviced once a year by an approved
installer/technician.

I assume what has been sold is the maintenance contract including the
servicing once a year and some insurance for faults that are possibly
already covered by a manufacturers warranty. The insurance probably
covers problems with drains etc. and possibly problems with the plumbing
and CH.

I've just had my boiler checked/serviced for £90. This job took approx
45 minutes and each part of the manufactures check list were performed
and ticked off. The magnetic filter was also flushed.

The last BG boiler service that my mother had took all of 10 minutes!
She then changed to a local company for boiler service, which was around
half the price of a BG contract.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:16:04 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 05/09/2023 14:06, Scott wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Sep 2023 12:06:50 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/09/2023 11:19, Scott wrote:
>>>> I thought all utilities had a duty to communicate in clear language,
>>>> but maybe I am missing something here? A friend has a new boiler with
>>>> a five-year warranty. He has received a letter where page 4 states:
>>>>
>>>> 5 year warranty £0.00
>>>> Plumbing and drains cover £61.05
>>>> Home electrical cover £42.12
>>>> Other charges - amount paid for previous
>>>> products removed from agreement £264.67
>>>> Total yearly price £367.84
>>>>
>>>> I cannot see what the £264.67 is and why it is added and not
>>>> subtracted from the customer no longer owns the previous boiler.
>>>> I am assuming the plumbing and drains cover (£61.05) and home
>>>> electrical cover (£42.12) are optional extras, which he does not want
>>>> as he knows plumbers and electricians. Any insights would be welcome.
>>>
>>> It looks as if your friend has not got the manufactures boiler warranty
>>> but has been mis-sold an expensive maintenance contract that the utility
>>> companies are so keen to push because they get so much in commission.
>>
>> ??? But it says the cost of the warranty is £0.00 so what is it they
>> are purporting to have sold?
>
>
>Many boiler manufacturers are offering a 10 year warranty for 'free'.
>The gotcha is that it has to be serviced once a year by an approved
>installer/technician.
>
>I assume what has been sold is the maintenance contract including the
>servicing once a year and some insurance for faults that are possibly
>already covered by a manufacturers warranty. The insurance probably
>covers problems with drains etc. and possibly problems with the plumbing
>and CH.
>
>I've just had my boiler checked/serviced for £90. This job took approx
>45 minutes and each part of the manufactures check list were performed
>and ticked off. The magnetic filter was also flushed.
>
>The last BG boiler service that my mother had took all of 10 minutes!
>She then changed to a local company for boiler service, which was around
>half the price of a BG contract.

Thanks, but:

1. Are British Gas warranties sold as a single payment for 5 years? I
thought payments were annual.
2. How can a maintenance contract be described as an 'amount paid for
previous products removed from agreement'? This is neither a
comprehensible description of the service offered, a form of wording
that would meet any concept of plain English, or mathematically
logical as removals are conventionally preceded by a minus sign.