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aus+uk / uk.comp.os.linux / Re: problem with Online Banking

SubjectAuthor
* problem with Online BankingDavey
+* Re: problem with Online BankingMarco Moock
|+- Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|`* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
| +* Re: problem with Online BankingMarco Moock
| |+* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
| ||`* Re: problem with Online BankingAndy Burns
| || `* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
| ||  `* Re: problem with Online BankingAndy Burns
| ||   `- Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
| |`- Re: problem with Online BankingHandsome Jack
| `* Re: problem with Online BankingAnton Shepelev
|  +* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |+- Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |+- Re: problem with Online BankingAnton Shepelev
|  |`* Re: problem with Online BankingMartin Gregorie
|  | `* Re: problem with Online BankingAndy Burns
|  |  +* Re: problem with Online BankingTheo
|  |  |`* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |  | `* Re: problem with Online BankingMartin Gregorie
|  |  |  `- Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |  `* Re: problem with Online BankingMartin Gregorie
|  |   `* Re: problem with Online BankingTheo
|  |    `* Re: problem with Online BankingMartin Gregorie
|  |     `* Re: problem with Online BankingRichard Kettlewell
|  |      `* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |       `* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |        `* Re: problem with Online BankingAndy Burns
|  |         +- Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |         `* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |          +* Re: problem with Online BankingJava Jive
|  |          |`* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  |          | `- Re: problem with Online Banking. FIXED !Davey
|  |          `* Re: problem with Online BankingAndy Burns
|  |           `- Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
|  `* Re: problem with Online BankingAndy Burns
|   `- Re: problem with Online BankingRichard Kettlewell
`* Re: problem with Online BankingTheo
 `* Re: problem with Online BankingDavey
  `* Re: problem with Online BankingTheo
   `- Re: problem with Online BankingDavey

Pages:12
problem with Online Banking

<ueor2i$18uuj$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1027&group=uk.comp.os.linux#1027

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From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:13:06 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Davey - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:13 UTC

I use Online Banking with HSBC on an almost daily basis, using Mozilla
Firebird on Ubuntu.
Since Saturday, I only get an error message when I try to go to the
Sign-up page:

503 ERROR
The request could not be satisfied.
The Lambda function associated with the CloudFront distribution is
invalid or doesn't have the required permissions. We can't connect to
the server for this app or website at this time. There might be too
much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or contact the
app or website owner. If you provide content to customers through
CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this
error by reviewing the CloudFront documentation.

I have researched this, and I have no idea what is usually discussed,
it is in a language level above my pay grade, but seems to say that it
is probably a problem with CloudFront, whoever they are.
If I use Chrome, still on Ubuntu, it works fine. That is always
updating whenever I do an update/upgrade.

What, if anything, can I do about this, apart from trying to contact
HSBC's annoying chatbot and explaining it to them? There have been no
recent updates to Mozilla, and there are none ready to download.

Any help gratefully received.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<ueosc7$190cq$7@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1028&group=uk.comp.os.linux#1028

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From: mm+usene...@dorfdsl.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:35:18 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Marco Moock - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:35 UTC

Am 24.09.2023 um 09:13:06 Uhr schrieb Davey:

> I use Online Banking with HSBC on an almost daily basis, using Mozilla
> Firebird on Ubuntu.

Mozilla Firebird?
Really?
Or Firefox?

> Since Saturday, I only get an error message when I try to go to the
> Sign-up page:
>
> 503 ERROR
> The request could not be satisfied.
> The Lambda function associated with the CloudFront distribution is
> invalid or doesn't have the required permissions. We can't connect to
> the server for this app or website at this time. There might be too
> much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or contact the
> app or website owner. If you provide content to customers through
> CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this
> error by reviewing the CloudFront documentation.
>
> I have researched this, and I have no idea what is usually discussed,
> it is in a language level above my pay grade, but seems to say that it
> is probably a problem with CloudFront, whoever they are.
> If I use Chrome, still on Ubuntu, it works fine. That is always
> updating whenever I do an update/upgrade.

Many webmasters only care about Chrome.
Contact them and ask them for supporting all browsers.

> What, if anything, can I do about this, apart from trying to contact
> HSBC's annoying chatbot and explaining it to them? There have been no
> recent updates to Mozilla, and there are none ready to download.

Switching the bank is the last resort.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<uep0uk$1a4c2$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:53:24 +0100
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 by: Davey - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:53 UTC

On Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:35:18 +0200
Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:

> Am 24.09.2023 um 09:13:06 Uhr schrieb Davey:
>
> > I use Online Banking with HSBC on an almost daily basis, using
> > Mozilla Firebird on Ubuntu.
>
> Mozilla Firebird?
> Really?
> Or Firefox?
>

Clearly, Firefox. it st gave been the Spellchucker! Or not.

> > Since Saturday, I only get an error message when I try to go to the
> > Sign-up page:
> >
> > 503 ERROR
> > The request could not be satisfied.
> > The Lambda function associated with the CloudFront distribution is
> > invalid or doesn't have the required permissions. We can't connect
> > to the server for this app or website at this time. There might be
> > too much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or
> > contact the app or website owner. If you provide content to
> > customers through CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot
> > and help prevent this error by reviewing the CloudFront
> > documentation.
> >
> > I have researched this, and I have no idea what is usually
> > discussed, it is in a language level above my pay grade, but seems
> > to say that it is probably a problem with CloudFront, whoever they
> > are. If I use Chrome, still on Ubuntu, it works fine. That is always
> > updating whenever I do an update/upgrade.
>
> Many webmasters only care about Chrome.
> Contact them and ask them for supporting all browsers.

Indeed, I will try.
>
> > What, if anything, can I do about this, apart from trying to contact
> > HSBC's annoying chatbot and explaining it to them? There have been
> > no recent updates to Mozilla, and there are none ready to
> > download.
>
> Switching the bank is the last resort.
>
I don't want to do that, and there is no guarantee that the same thing
won't happen at another bank in the future. Our local Barclays branch
has just closed, and Lloyds has some notices in the window that look
ominous.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<uep1uf$1a4c2$2@dont-email.me>

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From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 11:10:23 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Davey - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:10 UTC

On Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:35:18 +0200
Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:

> Am 24.09.2023 um 09:13:06 Uhr schrieb Davey:
>
> > I use Online Banking with HSBC on an almost daily basis, using
> > Mozilla Firebird on Ubuntu.
>
> Mozilla Firebird?
> Really?
> Or Firefox?
>
> > Since Saturday, I only get an error message when I try to go to the
> > Sign-up page:
> >
> > 503 ERROR
> > The request could not be satisfied.
> > The Lambda function associated with the CloudFront distribution is
> > invalid or doesn't have the required permissions. We can't connect
> > to the server for this app or website at this time. There might be
> > too much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or
> > contact the app or website owner. If you provide content to
> > customers through CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot
> > and help prevent this error by reviewing the CloudFront
> > documentation.
> >
> > I have researched this, and I have no idea what is usually
> > discussed, it is in a language level above my pay grade, but seems
> > to say that it is probably a problem with CloudFront, whoever they
> > are. If I use Chrome, still on Ubuntu, it works fine. That is always
> > updating whenever I do an update/upgrade.
>
> Many webmasters only care about Chrome.
> Contact them and ask them for supporting all browsers.
>
> > What, if anything, can I do about this, apart from trying to contact
> > HSBC's annoying chatbot and explaining it to them? There have been
> > no recent updates to Mozilla, and there are none ready to
> > download.
>
> Switching the bank is the last resort.
>

I managed to talk to a human (!), but she could find no reference to
anybody else with similar problems reported. She suggested I do a
Browser Reset.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<uep1vs$1a80a$1@dont-email.me>

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From: mm+usene...@dorfdsl.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:11:08 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Marco Moock - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:11 UTC

Am 24.09.2023 um 11:10:23 Uhr schrieb Davey:

> I managed to talk to a human (!), but she could find no reference to
> anybody else with similar problems reported. She suggested I do a
> Browser Reset.

Did you try it in a fresh firefox profile?
Go to about:profiles to create it.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<uep300$1a4c2$3@dont-email.me>

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From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 11:28:16 +0100
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 by: Davey - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:28 UTC

On Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:11:08 +0200
Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:

> Am 24.09.2023 um 11:10:23 Uhr schrieb Davey:
>
> > I managed to talk to a human (!), but she could find no reference to
> > anybody else with similar problems reported. She suggested I do a
> > Browser Reset.
>
> Did you try it in a fresh firefox profile?
> Go to about:profiles to create it.
>

Ah-ha! That worked. Which proves something, I just don't know how to
fix it. I need to find out what, in my Default Profile, is creating the
error message, and I have no idea how to do that. Starting in
Troubleshooting Mode (ex Safe Mode) made no difference.

But many thanks for putting me onto something that works.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<knakrbFj8lhU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:28:45 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 11:28 UTC

Davey wrote:

> Marco Moock wrote:
>
>> Did you try it in a fresh firefox profile?
>> Go to about:profiles to create it.
>
> Ah-ha! That worked. Which proves something, I just don't know how to
> fix it.

start by clearing cookies and/or saved credentials for the bank, then
try disabling all add-ons, then just disable advert/javascript blocking
add-ons...

Re: problem with Online Banking

<uep7b7$1a4c2$4@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
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 by: Davey - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 11:42 UTC

On Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:28:45 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Davey wrote:
>
> > Marco Moock wrote:
> >
> >> Did you try it in a fresh firefox profile?
> >> Go to about:profiles to create it.
> >
> > Ah-ha! That worked. Which proves something, I just don't know how to
> > fix it.
>
> start by clearing cookies and/or saved credentials for the bank, then
> try disabling all add-ons, then just disable advert/javascript
> blocking add-ons...

I thought that the troubleshooting mode had disabled the add-ons etc,
but I'll go through the whole process. Later, though, I have other
things to do at the moment.
But thanks for the help.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<knalo0Fj8lhU3@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
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In-Reply-To: <uep7b7$1a4c2$4@dont-email.me>
 by: Andy Burns - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 11:44 UTC

Davey wrote:

> I thought that the troubleshooting mode had disabled the add-ons etc,

yes within the fresh profile, but presumably you want to get back to
your original profile?

> but I'll go through the whole process. Later, though, I have other
> things to do at the moment.

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 17:43:58 +0100
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 by: Davey - Sun, 24 Sep 2023 16:43 UTC

On Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:44:02 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Davey wrote:
>
> > I thought that the troubleshooting mode had disabled the add-ons
> > etc,
>
> yes within the fresh profile, but presumably you want to get back to
> your original profile?
>
> > but I'll go through the whole process. Later, though, I have other
> > things to do at the moment.
>
>

I ran Troubleshooting Mode while in my only (Default) profile,
according to the Help procedure. It said that this disabled all add-ons
etc, but it did not get rid of the Error message, which it daid meant
that the problem was not caused by any add-ons. I then exited
Troubleshooting Mode, and later, per your suggestion, created a new
'Test' profile, which is 'naked' and has no add-ons, and works with
the banking site.

The Help process also mentioned Resetting Firefox, but that sounded as
though it would eliminate all my personal data, in effect returning it
to the state of the new profile. Kind of The Nuclear Option.

I am confused, but at least I have, for now anyway, two ways of getting
at my banking.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<20230925104936.431d4f0a0cbb007c113a16fe@g{oogle}mail.com>

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:49:36 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 07:49 UTC

Davey:

> I managed to talk to a human (!), but she could find no
> reference to anybody else with similar problems reported.

It may be the standard manipulation: to tell everyone in
private that they are the only one experiencing the problem.
This is why commerical providers do not use public issue
trackers or support forums (mailing lists, newsgroups), to
keep the clients isolated as it were in one-man
cells -- divide and conquer. That way, the client cannot
unite to exert any serious and concerted pressure on the
provider.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

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Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 09:11:19 +0100
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 by: Davey - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:11 UTC

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:49:36 +0300
Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:

> Davey:
>
> > I managed to talk to a human (!), but she could find no
> > reference to anybody else with similar problems reported.
>
> It may be the standard manipulation: to tell everyone in
> private that they are the only one experiencing the problem.
> This is why commerical providers do not use public issue
> trackers or support forums (mailing lists, newsgroups), to
> keep the clients isolated as it were in one-man
> cells -- divide and conquer. That way, the client cannot
> unite to exert any serious and concerted pressure on the
> provider.
>

I agree; but the fact that I can get it to work with a new profile
rather negates that IN THIS CASE.

But then, Chrome failed this morning, with the same Error message, using
the same profile as yesterday, so who knows?

Cheers,

--
Davey,

Re: problem with Online Banking

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Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
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 by: Davey - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:15 UTC

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 09:11:19 +0100
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> > It may be the standard manipulation: to tell everyone in
> > private that they are the only one experiencing the problem.
> > This is why commerical providers do not use public issue
> > trackers or support forums (mailing lists, newsgroups), to
> > keep the clients isolated as it were in one-man
> > cells -- divide and conquer. That way, the client cannot
> > unite to exert any serious and concerted pressure on the
> > provider.

I once had an issue with Tom Tom directing lorries around a very tight
corner in front of my house, risking damaging the house. I eventually
got on to a Tom Tom Forum, which was stuffed full of people complaining
about the lack of Customer Service. Then suddenly, the forum was
closed, due to "Lack of Interest"! Yeah, right.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: anton....@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 11:40:44 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:40 UTC

Davey to Anton Shepelev:

> > It may be the standard manipulation: to tell everyone in
> > private that they are the only one experiencing the
> > problem.
>
> I agree; but the fact that I can get it to work with a new
> profile rather negates that IN THIS CASE.

Yeah, I have to read some way ahead down the thread before
rushing in with a rant, to which your situation is too rare
an exception!

--
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 11:29:46 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:29 UTC

Anton Shepelev wrote:

> It may be the standard manipulation: to tell everyone in
> private that they are the only one experiencing the problem.
> This is why commerical providers do not use public issue
> trackers or support forums (mailing lists, newsgroups), to
> keep the clients isolated as it were in one-man
> cells -- divide and conquer. That way, the client cannot
> unite to exert any serious and concerted pressure on the
> provider.

Except they all seem to use twitter!

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: inva...@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 11:46:49 +0100
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:46 UTC

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:
> Anton Shepelev wrote:
>> It may be the standard manipulation: to tell everyone in
>> private that they are the only one experiencing the problem.
>> This is why commerical providers do not use public issue
>> trackers or support forums (mailing lists, newsgroups), to
>> keep the clients isolated as it were in one-man
>> cells -- divide and conquer. That way, the client cannot
>> unite to exert any serious and concerted pressure on the
>> provider.
>
> Except they all seem to use twitter!

Yes, I don’t think there’s any conscious manipulation here. Desktop
Linux is a niche use case and retail support staff just don’t encounter
it very often.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 13:42:01 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 13:42 UTC

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 09:11:19 +0100, Davey wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:49:36 +0300 Anton Shepelev
> <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
>
>> Davey:
>>
>> > I managed to talk to a human (!), but she could find no reference to
>> > anybody else with similar problems reported.
>>
>> It may be the standard manipulation: to tell everyone in private that
>> they are the only one experiencing the problem.
>> This is why commerical providers do not use public issue trackers or
>> support forums (mailing lists, newsgroups), to keep the clients
>> isolated as it were in one-man cells -- divide and conquer. That way,
>> the client cannot unite to exert any serious and concerted pressure on
>> the provider.
>>
>>
> I agree; but the fact that I can get it to work with a new profile
> rather negates that IN THIS CASE.
>
> But then, Chrome failed this morning, with the same Error message, using
> the same profile as yesterday, so who knows?
>
> Cheers,

Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic between
Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: problem with Online Banking

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Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 13:56 UTC

Martin Gregorie wrote:

> Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic between
> Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.

You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which somewhat
complicates the process of deciphering https sessions with wireshark

<https://knowledgebase.paloaltonetworks.com/KCSArticleDetail?id=kA14u000000HB8gCAG>

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: 25 Sep 2023 16:28:01 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:28 UTC

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
> > Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic between
> > Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.
>
> You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which somewhat
> complicates the process of deciphering https sessions with wireshark

You can use your browser's Developer Tools to see the communication between
the browser and the site inside the HTTPS. But good luck hunting for fixes:
'stuff talks to stuff' is as good as you'll get really - there is too many
layers of Javascript in there to easily determine the problem, unless it's
something very obvious like a webserver taking forever to reply. It's a bit
like trying to debug Microsoft Office using a disassembler.

Theo

Re: problem with Online Banking

<uesaib$208e4$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:55:55 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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logging-data="2105796"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19IsasS+/4fLXATcVXgKYgy"
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 by: Davey - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:55 UTC

On 25 Sep 2023 16:28:01 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> > Martin Gregorie wrote:
> >
> > > Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic
> > > between Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.
> >
> > You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which
> > somewhat complicates the process of deciphering https sessions with
> > wireshark
>
> You can use your browser's Developer Tools to see the communication
> between the browser and the site inside the HTTPS. But good luck
> hunting for fixes: 'stuff talks to stuff' is as good as you'll get
> really - there is too many layers of Javascript in there to easily
> determine the problem, unless it's something very obvious like a
> webserver taking forever to reply. It's a bit like trying to debug
> Microsoft Office using a disassembler.
>
> Theo

And all that the three of you have suggested sounds to be beyond my
abilities.
But thank you for the ideas!.

--
Davey.

Re: problem with Online Banking

<uesb58$1uci0$2@dont-email.me>

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:06:01 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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logging-data="2044480"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18ZhtS+zkH5s/CAfiZsJ7wnP7l1+XNWOo0="
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:06 UTC

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:56:32 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
>> Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic
>> between Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.
>
> You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which somewhat
> complicates the process of deciphering https sessions with wireshark
>
Agreed, though the earlier parts of the login dialogue, which seem to be
where the OP's problems lie, may be plaintext: after you need to have some
sort of link up and running before you can turn encryption on. If this
initial part of starting an encrypted link is where the OP's problem lies
then I'd expect Wireshark could be quite useful.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:16:21 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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logging-data="2044480"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19mzwheuIbd0O9kxVaBiRs+/lIjB2ytFN8="
User-Agent: Pan/0.149 (Bellevue; 4c157ba git@gitlab.gnome.org:GNOME/pan.git)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:pxFm3tQ2Np+MSOx9iIuLEHMMubk=
 by: Martin Gregorie - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:16 UTC

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:55:55 +0100, Davey wrote:

> On 25 Sep 2023 16:28:01 +0100 (BST)
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> > Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> >
>> > > Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic
>> > > between Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.
>> >
>> > You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which
>> > somewhat complicates the process of deciphering https sessions with
>> > wireshark
>>
>> You can use your browser's Developer Tools to see the communication
>> between the browser and the site inside the HTTPS. But good luck
>> hunting for fixes: 'stuff talks to stuff' is as good as you'll get
>> really - there is too many layers of Javascript in there to easily
>> determine the problem, unless it's something very obvious like a
>> webserver taking forever to reply. It's a bit like trying to debug
>> Microsoft Office using a disassembler.
>>
>> Theo
>
> And all that the three of you have suggested sounds to be beyond my
> abilities.
> But thank you for the ideas!.

Wireshark is a standard package for most Linux distros, and is pretty
simple to install and use, since all it does is to show the content of
incoming and outgoing messages and label each message to show which stream
it belongs to and whether its incoming or outgoing. It also lets you
capture the message flow as well as watching it stream past on screen.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: problem with Online Banking

<nWk*Lehrz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: 25 Sep 2023 18:34:13 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <nWk*Lehrz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
References: <ueor2i$18uuj$1@dont-email.me> <ueosc7$190cq$7@dont-email.me> <uep1uf$1a4c2$2@dont-email.me> <20230925104936.431d4f0a0cbb007c113a16fe@g{oogle}mail.com> <uerfb7$1qeho$1@dont-email.me> <ues2n9$1uci0$1@dont-email.me> <kndhseF48d9U1@mid.individual.net> <uesb58$1uci0$2@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: chiark.greenend.org.uk; posting-host="chiark.greenend.org.uk:212.13.197.229";
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User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (Linux/5.10.0-22-amd64 (x86_64))
Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:34 UTC

Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:56:32 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> > Martin Gregorie wrote:
> >
> >> Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic
> >> between Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.
> >
> > You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which somewhat
> > complicates the process of deciphering https sessions with wireshark
> >
> Agreed, though the earlier parts of the login dialogue, which seem to be
> where the OP's problems lie, may be plaintext: after you need to have some
> sort of link up and running before you can turn encryption on. If this
> initial part of starting an encrypted link is where the OP's problem lies
> then I'd expect Wireshark could be quite useful.

There's no plaintext, it's all encrypted. All you can see there are the
connections to various servers (and maybe their DNS) - everything inside
those connections is encrypted.

Theo

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: mar...@mydomain.invalid (Martin Gregorie)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 20:48:25 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Martin Gregorie - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 20:48 UTC

On 25 Sep 2023 18:34:13 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

> Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:56:32 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>> > Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the traffic
>> >> between Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.
>> >
>> > You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which
>> > somewhat complicates the process of deciphering https sessions with
>> > wireshark
>> >
>> Agreed, though the earlier parts of the login dialogue, which seem to
>> be where the OP's problems lie, may be plaintext: after you need to
>> have some sort of link up and running before you can turn encryption
>> on. If this initial part of starting an encrypted link is where the
>> OP's problem lies then I'd expect Wireshark could be quite useful.
>
> There's no plaintext, it's all encrypted. All you can see there are the
> connections to various servers (and maybe their DNS) - everything inside
> those connections is encrypted.
>
> Theo

I would expect the content of the session start/stop messages and
(probably) encryption start/stop messages to be plaintext, not least
because this stuff is public information: it has to be because its the
routing and content type details (msg encrypted or plaintext) needed to
establish the mail transport sessions and would seem to what the OP's
system is complaining about.

Using Wireshark is about the simplest way I can think of to display this
information: if its the same regardless connection success or failure then
the problem is internal to the OP's system.

Similarly, if responses to these messages are error responses, munged or
not being returned, then the problem is internal to the OP's system.

If the problem is with the session establishment then I'd expect Wireshark
to confirm or deny this explanation and nothing more. If the session start
request/response pairs are OK when displayed by Wireshark, that the
problem ir internam the the OP's system and its time to look at his mail
processes's debugging and diagnostic capabilities.

Anyway, the above is why I suggested Wireshark as a readily available and
easy to use way or looking at session start/stop messages: in this case I
don't expect it to do more than that.

--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Re: problem with Online Banking

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From: dav...@example.invalid (Davey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: problem with Online Banking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 22:43:08 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Davey - Mon, 25 Sep 2023 21:43 UTC

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:16:21 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:55:55 +0100, Davey wrote:
>
> > On 25 Sep 2023 16:28:01 +0100 (BST)
> > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> >> > Martin Gregorie wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Have you got Wireshark installed? Using it to look at the
> >> > > traffic between Chrome and your bank might suggest fixes.
> >> >
> >> > You would hope communication to the bank would encrypted, which
> >> > somewhat complicates the process of deciphering https sessions
> >> > with wireshark
> >>
> >> You can use your browser's Developer Tools to see the communication
> >> between the browser and the site inside the HTTPS. But good luck
> >> hunting for fixes: 'stuff talks to stuff' is as good as you'll get
> >> really - there is too many layers of Javascript in there to easily
> >> determine the problem, unless it's something very obvious like a
> >> webserver taking forever to reply. It's a bit like trying to debug
> >> Microsoft Office using a disassembler.
> >>
> >> Theo
> >
> > And all that the three of you have suggested sounds to be beyond my
> > abilities.
> > But thank you for the ideas!.
>
> Wireshark is a standard package for most Linux distros, and is pretty
> simple to install and use, since all it does is to show the content
> of incoming and outgoing messages and label each message to show
> which stream it belongs to and whether its incoming or outgoing. It
> also lets you capture the message flow as well as watching it stream
> past on screen.
>
>

I once installed Wireshark on an earlier machine, and I could not make
head or tail of what it was telling me. I could try again now and see
if it makes any mire sense.

--
Davey.

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