Finally got around to changing the oil today.

Warmed up engine, drained old oil.

Took side cover off to clean both sludge trap/centrifugal filter[1] +
the crappy little screen filter.

[1] glad I did because it did have a lot of sludge in it.

Put side cover back on with a couple of bolts.

Clutch no longer works, the lever moves way past 90ded and the little
piston thing barely engages with the clutch release plate.

Look all around to see if some part is missing (it's common to
re-assemble without the plunger).

Check parts diagrams for something else missing.

Still no clutch.

I've googled for ages and fiddled/furtled, looked for any possible other
part on the ground. Nothing.

Stumped.

:(

--
/Simon

siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
> Finally got around to changing the oil today.
>
> Warmed up engine, drained old oil.
>
> Took side cover off to clean both sludge trap/centrifugal filter[1] +
> the crappy little screen filter.
>
> [1] glad I did because it did have a lot of sludge in it.
>
> Put side cover back on with a couple of bolts.
>
> Clutch no longer works, the lever moves way past 90ded and the little
> piston thing barely engages with the clutch release plate.
>
> Look all around to see if some part is missing (it's common to
> re-assemble without the plunger).
>
> Check parts diagrams for something else missing.
>
> Still no clutch.
>
> I've googled for ages and fiddled/furtled, looked for any possible other
> part on the ground. Nothing.
>
> Stumped.

I have a vague memory of having a similar thing happen on another
bike, I think it was an EX500, which also uses a vertical shaft with
a "cutout" to engage a clutch lifter device that pulls on a bearing
mounted to the pressure plate. In the end, IIRC, I just had to be
careful when reassembling to allow the clutch actuator shaft to
intersect properly with the pulling device.

Looking at the "ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER" (FN 15, PN 22847-K26-900,
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/2019/grom125-ac/clutch)

I'm struggling to understand how it engages
with "LEVER, CLUTCH" (FN 6, PN 22810-K26-C00,
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/2019/grom125-ac/right-crankcase-cover)

The only pictures I could find don't show any engagement feature that
would allow it to be pulled outward by FN 6. Obviously it does work
when assembled correctly but the parts diagram isn't helping me understand it
very well.

I did find a 15 minute long video of an idiot who couldn't get his
Grom clutch to work after disassembling it, and he added a comment
saying it was eventually fixed, but didn't get around to explaining
what was wrong or making a 2nd video showing the fix...

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 03/07/2022 19:48, Mark Olson wrote:
> siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Finally got around to changing the oil today.
>>
>> Warmed up engine, drained old oil.
>>
>> Took side cover off to clean both sludge trap/centrifugal filter[1] +
>> the crappy little screen filter.
>>
>> [1] glad I did because it did have a lot of sludge in it.
>>
>> Put side cover back on with a couple of bolts.
>>
>> Clutch no longer works, the lever moves way past 90ded and the little
>> piston thing barely engages with the clutch release plate.
>>
>> Look all around to see if some part is missing (it's common to
>> re-assemble without the plunger).
>>
>> Check parts diagrams for something else missing.
>>
>> Still no clutch.
>>
>> I've googled for ages and fiddled/furtled, looked for any possible other
>> part on the ground. Nothing.
>>
>> Stumped.
>
> I have a vague memory of having a similar thing happen on another
> bike, I think it was an EX500, which also uses a vertical shaft with
> a "cutout" to engage a clutch lifter device that pulls on a bearing
> mounted to the pressure plate. In the end, IIRC, I just had to be
> careful when reassembling to allow the clutch actuator shaft to
> intersect properly with the pulling device.
>
> Looking at the "ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER" (FN 15, PN 22847-K26-900,
> https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/2019/grom125-ac/clutch)
>
> I'm struggling to understand how it engages
> with "LEVER, CLUTCH" (FN 6, PN 22810-K26-C00,
> https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/2019/grom125-ac/right-crankcase-cover)
>
> The only pictures I could find don't show any engagement feature that
> would allow it to be pulled outward by FN 6. Obviously it does work
> when assembled correctly but the parts diagram isn't helping me understand it
> very well.
>
> I did find a 15 minute long video of an idiot who couldn't get his
> Grom clutch to work after disassembling it, and he added a comment
> saying it was eventually fixed, but didn't get around to explaining
> what was wrong or making a 2nd video showing the fix...
>

I watched a couple of useless vids too.

The lever has a small segment cutout that the rod pushes into. As the
lever rotates it lifts the rod out and pushes it agains the clutch
pressure plate. There's 0 adjustment apart from cable slack.

I ended up inserting a small valve shim under the rod, and put it all
back togther. It felt great. Except, now the clutch is permanently
disengaged.

I suspect I may have not tightened down the cover sufficiently when
trying it before, as this time as I bolted it down I noticed it moved in
quite a bit.

I've put it away for now, will try again later.

--
/Simon

siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:

> The lever has a small segment cutout that the rod pushes into. As the
> lever rotates it lifts the rod out and pushes it agains the clutch

pulls, not pushes, surely?

> pressure plate. There's 0 adjustment apart from cable slack.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 03/07/2022 20:27, Mark Olson wrote:
> siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The lever has a small segment cutout that the rod pushes into. As the
>> lever rotates it lifts the rod out and pushes it agains the clutch
>
> pulls, not pushes, surely?

No, pushes. The clutch is kinda backwards to a normal one.

--
/Simon

siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/07/2022 20:27, Mark Olson wrote:
>> siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The lever has a small segment cutout that the rod pushes into. As the
>>> lever rotates it lifts the rod out and pushes it agains the clutch
>>
>> pulls, not pushes, surely?
>
> No, pushes. The clutch is kinda backwards to a normal one.

Ah, that would explain why there's no 'catch' on the rod.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 04/07/2022 11:19, Mark Olson wrote:
> siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 03/07/2022 20:27, Mark Olson wrote:
>>> siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The lever has a small segment cutout that the rod pushes into. As the
>>>> lever rotates it lifts the rod out and pushes it agains the clutch
>>>
>>> pulls, not pushes, surely?
>>
>> No, pushes. The clutch is kinda backwards to a normal one.
>
> Ah, that would explain why there's no 'catch' on the rod.
>

Well what a freakin' idiot.

I laid the bike on its side today in order to take the clutch cover off
again without draining the oil.

Got the cover off, and, of course the clutch rod fell out and landed on
the clutch.

The little valve shim that I used to pack it out is now... nowhere to be
found.

After a good search and poke around[1] I put it back together again.
Rolled the dice and started the engine to verify the clutch was working
properly, which it is.

Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the shim
just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine to
find it.

Arse.

[1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
gearbox/crankcase

--
/Simon

On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 16:55:46 +0100, siwilson
<siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Well what a freakin' idiot.
>
>I laid the bike on its side today in order to take the clutch cover off
>again without draining the oil.
>
>Got the cover off, and, of course the clutch rod fell out and landed on
>the clutch.
>
>The little valve shim that I used to pack it out is now... nowhere to be
>found.
>
>After a good search and poke around[1] I put it back together again.
>Rolled the dice and started the engine to verify the clutch was working
>properly, which it is.
>
>Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the shim
>just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine to
>find it.
>
>Arse.
>
>[1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
>gearbox/crankcase

Your are Nigel Eaton and I claim my five free Z1300s
--
Salad Dodger
1690 FLHTK;GL1800D
Previously ...
CB1300SA8;GL1800A6;GL1500SEV;CBR1100XXX;
CBR1000FL;CBX1000Z;GPz750R;Z750E1;Z650C2;
KH500A8;KH250B3;TS250c;TS185c.

On 04/07/2022 17:55, siwilson wrote:

>
>Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the shim
>just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine to
>find it.
>
>Arse.
>
>[1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
>gearbox/crankcase

Would that shim fit through the drain plug hole?
Either way, fit a magnetic drain plug and hope for the best.
200km without catastrophe should be enough to come to terms with it.

--
Geoff
NTV 650

geoffC <me@home.nl> wrote:
> On 04/07/2022 17:55, siwilson wrote:
>
>>
>>Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the shim
>>just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine to
>>find it.
>>
>>Arse.
>>
>>[1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
>>gearbox/crankcase
>
> Would that shim fit through the drain plug hole?
> Either way, fit a magnetic drain plug and hope for the best.
> 200km without catastrophe should be enough to come to terms with it.

You're an optimist, I like that.

I say it's going to go 10k before it jumps between the teeth of
a couple of gear wheels and grenades the transmission.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

>Where can I buyOn Mon, 4 Jul 2022 16:55:46 +0100, siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the shim
>just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine to
>find it.
>
>Arse.
>
>[1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
>gearbox/crankcase

Does the sump unbolt?

Did I ever mention here the day my XS750, that had taken me to Devon
and partway back after a hasty engine rebuid, failed to restart after
I stopped for fuel? Would barely turn over.

Turned out that a shim had dropped off the starter clutch as I was
inserting it, and had spent several hundred miles lurking in the
crankcase. When I tried to restart the bike, it wedged itself between
the clutch (or maybe an idler) and the crankcase.

--

-Pip

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 6:33:10 PM UTC+1, Salad Dodger wrote:

> Your are Nigel Eaton and I claim my five free Z1300s

Your memory for shit like that is fucking terrifying.

--
WUN

On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 15:24:25 -0700 (PDT), WUN <nigel.eaton@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 6:33:10 PM UTC+1, Salad Dodger wrote:
>
>> Your are Nigel Eaton and I claim my five free Z1300s
>
>Your memory for shit like that is fucking terrifying.

;-)
--
Salad Dodger
1690 FLHTK;GL1800D
Previously ...
CB1300SA8;GL1800A6;GL1500SEV;CBR1100XXX;
CBR1000FL;CBX1000Z;GPz750R;Z750E1;Z650C2;
KH500A8;KH250B3;TS250c;TS185c.

On 04/07/2022 19:24, geoffC wrote:
> On 04/07/2022 17:55, siwilson wrote:
>
>>
>> Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the
>> shim just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine
>> to find it.
>>
>> Arse.
>>
>> [1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
>> gearbox/crankcase
>
> Would that shim fit through the drain plug hole?
> Either way, fit a magnetic drain plug and hope for the best.
> 200km without catastrophe should be enough to come to terms with it.
>

Nope there's a mesh filter in the way.

--
/Simon

On 04/07/2022 21:35, Mark Olson wrote:
> geoffC <me@home.nl> wrote:
>> On 04/07/2022 17:55, siwilson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the shim
>>> just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine to
>>> find it.
>>>
>>> Arse.
>>>
>>> [1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
>>> gearbox/crankcase
>>
>> Would that shim fit through the drain plug hole?
>> Either way, fit a magnetic drain plug and hope for the best.
>> 200km without catastrophe should be enough to come to terms with it.
>
> You're an optimist, I like that.
>
> I say it's going to go 10k before it jumps between the teeth of
> a couple of gear wheels and grenades the transmission.
>

Yeah that's my concern too. I've ordered a tiny magnet onna stick to go
fishing before I try anything else.

--
/Simon

On 04/07/2022 23:02, Pipl wrote:
>> Where can I buyOn Mon, 4 Jul 2022 16:55:46 +0100, siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Now I've got to decide whether to risk using/riding it and hope the shim
>> just sits in the bottom somewhere, or strip the whole dang engine to
>> find it.
>>
>> Arse.
>>
>> [1] there are *loads* of places it could have fallen through into the
>> gearbox/crankcase
>
> Does the sump unbolt?

Sadly not.

>
> Did I ever mention here the day my XS750, that had taken me to Devon
> and partway back after a hasty engine rebuid, failed to restart after
> I stopped for fuel? Would barely turn over.
>
> Turned out that a shim had dropped off the starter clutch as I was
> inserting it, and had spent several hundred miles lurking in the
> crankcase. When I tried to restart the bike, it wedged itself between
> the clutch (or maybe an idler) and the crankcase.
>

Yes I seen the after effects of an errant ball bearing in the primary
drive and it wasn't pretty.

--
/Simon

siwilson wrote:

> Mark Olson wrote:
>
>> it's going to go 10k before it jumps between the teeth of
>> a couple of gear wheels and grenades the transmission.
>
> Yeah that's my concern too. I've ordered a tiny magnet onna stick to go fishing
> before I try anything else.

She swallowed the spider to catch the fly ...

On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 2:19:02 PM UTC+1, siwilson wrote:
> >
> Yeah that's my concern too. I've ordered a tiny magnet onna stick to go
> fishing before I try anything else.

It's a fucking Grom, turn it upside down and shake it...

--
WUN

On Tuesday, 5 July 2022 at 15:09:46 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> siwilson wrote:
> > Mark Olson wrote:
> >
> >> it's going to go 10k before it jumps between the teeth of
> >> a couple of gear wheels and grenades the transmission.
> >
> > Yeah that's my concern too. I've ordered a tiny magnet onna stick to go fishing
> > before I try anything else.
> She swallowed the spider to catch the fly ...

Heh.

'Fuck, the magnet's come off the stick'

On Tuesday, 5 July 2022 at 15:09:46 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> siwilson wrote:
> > Mark Olson wrote:
> >
> >> it's going to go 10k before it jumps between the teeth of
> >> a couple of gear wheels and grenades the transmission.
> >
> > Yeah that's my concern too. I've ordered a tiny magnet onna stick to go fishing
> > before I try anything else.
> She swallowed the spider to catch the fly ...

*Snort*
--
Hog
'89 R100RS '96 Bastard12
BOB#5 OSOS#31 COFF#22 BOTAFOT#122

On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 15:24:25 -0700 (PDT), WUN <nigel.eaton@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 6:33:10 PM UTC+1, Salad Dodger wrote:
>
>> Your are Nigel Eaton and I claim my five free Z1300s

>Your memory for shit like that is fucking terrifying.

Indeed it is

I can't even remember anything about this incident. Someone spill the
beans, please
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 24/07/2022 19:35, Champ wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 15:24:25 -0700 (PDT), WUN <nigel.eaton@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 6:33:10 PM UTC+1, Salad Dodger wrote:
>>
>>> Your are Nigel Eaton and I claim my five free Z1300s
>
>> Your memory for shit like that is fucking terrifying.
>
> Indeed it is
>
> I can't even remember anything about this incident.

Me neither.

> Someone spill the beans, please

The good news is my little Grom is now unbroken again, I managed to find
the offending shim. I was just starting to take the clutch apart when it
appeared. I suspect it was somewhere under the pressure plate.

--
/Simon

On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 19:35:48 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 15:24:25 -0700 (PDT), WUN <nigel.eaton@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 6:33:10 PM UTC+1, Salad Dodger wrote:
>>
>>> Your are Nigel Eaton and I claim my five free Z1300s
>
>>Your memory for shit like that is fucking terrifying.
>
>Indeed it is
>
>I can't even remember anything about this incident. Someone spill the
>beans, please

It might have been that time in Sedan, when a certain person was
working on a bike and a second party placed an extra bolt on the
ground when the first party wasn't looking.

--
Colin Irvine
FJR1300A

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 7:35:50 PM UTC+1, Champ wrote:
>
> I can't even remember anything about this incident. Someone spill the
> beans, please

I was doing the valve clearances on the Z1300. Obviously I'd blocked the camchain
tunnel with a rag, which left a small gap about 3 Angtroms larger than a Z13 valve
shim. So obviously when I dropped one it homed in on it like a fucking Exocet,
and didn't even touch the sides.

I think I dropped the sump to get it out, but memory is hazy.

--
WUN

On 24/07/2022 21:50, Colin Irvine wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 19:35:48 +0100, Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 15:24:25 -0700 (PDT), WUN <nigel.eaton@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 6:33:10 PM UTC+1, Salad Dodger wrote:
>>>
>>>> Your are Nigel Eaton and I claim my five free Z1300s
>>
>>> Your memory for shit like that is fucking terrifying.
>>
>> Indeed it is
>>
>> I can't even remember anything about this incident. Someone spill the
>> beans, please
>
> It might have been that time in Sedan, when a certain person was
> working on a bike and a second party placed an extra bolt on the
> ground when the first party wasn't looking.
>
That is just brilliant :-)
Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk