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aus+uk / aus.aviation / Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

SubjectAuthor
* Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
`* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
 `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  +* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |`* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Daryl
  | `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |  `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Magani
  |   `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |    `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     +* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Magani
  |     |`* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     | `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |  +* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     |  |`- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |  `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?David Lesher
  |     |   `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |    `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Magani
  |     |     +* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  |     |     |`- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |     `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |      `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     |       +- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |       +* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Daryl
  |     |       |+- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  |     |       |`* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |       | `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     |       |  `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |       |   `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     |       |    `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |       |     `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     |       |      `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |       |       `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |     |       |        `- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |       `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  |     |        `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |         `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  |     |          `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |           `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  |     |            `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |             `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  |     |              `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |               `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Phil Allison
  |     |                `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |                 `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     |                  `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Magani
  |     |                   `- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |     `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |      `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Daryl
  |       `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |        `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |         `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  |          `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
  |           `- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?Rod Speed
  `* Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0
   `- Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?keithr0

Pages:123
Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

<e79b8dc0-71fa-45fd-83ae-6b7c10d3ee6bn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: cdsr...@gmail.com (Magani)
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 by: Magani - Tue, 8 Mar 2022 23:50 UTC

Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM

Cheers,
Magani

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 00:01 UTC

Magani wrote:
=================
>
> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>

** Yep, saw that yesterday.

Russia is " burning its bridges" almost everywhere.

...... Phil

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 16:09:18 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 05:09 UTC

Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote

> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM

So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.

Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
don't like it, they get to lump it.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 15:57:35 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 05:57 UTC

On 9/03/2022 3:09 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>
> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>
> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
> don't like it, they get to lump it.

I which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again EVER.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:38:09 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:38 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Magani wrote

>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM

> Yep, saw that yesterday.

> Russia is " burning its bridges" almost everywhere.

We'll see...

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:40:37 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:40 UTC

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM

>> So, like I said previously, Putin isn't going to allow the leased
>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.

>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>> don't like it, they get to lump it.

> I which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again
> EVER.

We'll see...

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 19:58:43 +1100
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 by: Daryl - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:58 UTC

On 9/3/2022 4:57 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/03/2022 3:09 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>>
>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>>
>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>
> I which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again EVER.

Certainly not while Putin is still president.
Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin will be gone
and things might get back to normal.

--
Daryl

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 09:04 UTC

Daryl the Dope wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
> >> don't like it, they get to lump it.
> >
> > I which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again EVER.
>>
>
> Certainly not while Putin is still president.
> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin will be gone
> and things might get back to normal.

** " We'll see.... "

ROTFL !!!

....... Phil

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 05:52:57 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 18:52 UTC

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> keithr0 wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>>>
>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>>>
>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>> I which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again
>> EVER.

> Certainly not while Putin is still president.

That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.

Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.

> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putinwill be gone
> and things might get back to normal.

Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Wed, 9 Mar 2022 23:26 UTC

keithr0 wrote:
=============
>
> > So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
> > aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
> > aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
> >
> > Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
> > don't like it, they get to lump it.
>
>
> In which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again EVER.

** With over 500 STOLEN aircraft - that is a certainty.

Lease companies have insurance against a few losses now and then
but NOT 500 STOLEN by a rogue government.

Russia cannot buy or lease virtually anything from other countries.
The trust they built up since 1990 is 100% GONE.

...... Phil

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 10:00:40 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:00 UTC

On 10/03/2022 4:52 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>> keithr0 wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>>>>
>>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>>>>
>>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>>>  I which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline
>>> again EVER.
>
>> Certainly not while Putin is still president.
>
> That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
> owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
> with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.

How is he going to pay them with SWIFT shut down, and the Rouble in the
toilet.

> Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
> China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
> flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
> to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
> used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.

China is possible but the range of Chinese aircraft is rather limited.
AFAIK, there are no Indian aircraft so it would be limited to older
plane actually owned there. Then there would still be the problems of
spares and heavy maintenance.

>> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putinwill be
>> gone  and things might get back to normal.
>
> Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
> his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.

You don't know that.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

<op.1isjptwobyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:28:31 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:28 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> keithr0 wrote

>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.

>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of theleased aircraft don't
>>> like it, they get to lump it.

>> In which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again
>> EVER.

> With over 500 STOLEN aircraft - that is a certainty.

Not if they keep paying the lease fees or the insurance covers it.

> Lease companies have insurance against a few losses nowand then but
> NOT 500 STOLEN by a rogue government.

You have no fucking idea what the insurance covers.

> Russia cannot buy or lease virtually anything from other countries.

Thats wrong too with India, China and various other countrys
that chose not to apply sanctions against russia.

> The trust they built up since 1990 is 100% GONE.

Just as pig ignorant a fantasy as your previous stupidity
about all the aircraft absolutely guaranteed to be grounded.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:37:53 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:37 UTC

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> keithr0 wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM

>>>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.

>>>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.

>>>> I which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline again
>>>> EVER.

>>> Certainly not while Putin is still president.

>> That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
>> owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
>> with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.

> How is he going to pay them with SWIFT shut down,

It hasn't been shut down and he is unlikely to keep
delivering gas to european countrys if it isnt paid for.

> and the Rouble in the toilet.

Its not down that badly. And the lease
fees aren't paid for in roubles anyway.

>> Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
>> China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
>> flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
>> to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
>> used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.

> China is possible but the range of Chinese aircraft is rather limited.

China can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.

> AFAIK, there are no Indian aircraft

India can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.

> so it would be limited to older plane actually owned there.

Just like the currently leased aircraft
which are leased from Ireland etc, stupid.

> Then there would still be the problems of spares

Nope, obviously China and India can sell them the
spares they have and buy more to replace them.

And like I said, with russia no longer being able to fly to
anywhere much apart from russia, india and china etc,
there is going to be much less need for spares.

> and heavy maintenance.

Even you should have noticed that it is just a tad unlikely
that all heavy maintenance of russian built and russian
military aircraft is done outside russia, so they can do
the heavy maintenance. And again, much less will be
needed than currently.

>>> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin
>>> will be gone and things might get back to normal.

>> Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
>> his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.

> You don't know that.

He doesn't know his either.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 18:03:33 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 02:03 UTC

Rod Speed Just LIEs and LIEs and Lies and LIES :
====================================
>
> >> In which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again
> >> EVER.
> > With over 500 STOLEN aircraft - that is a certainty.
>
> Not if they keep paying the lease fees

** Not even possible.

> or the insurance covers it.

** Bullshit, like HELL it will.

> > Lease companies have insurance against a few losses nowand then but
> > NOT 500 STOLEN by a rogue government.
>
> > Russia cannot buy or lease virtually anything from other countries.

> Thats wrong too with India, China and various other countrys
> that chose not to apply sanctions against russia.

** Go SFA to do with it:
Russia cannot be trusted to make payments to anyone.

> > The trust they built up since 1990 is 100% GONE.
>
> Just as pig ignorant a fantasy as your previous stupidity
> about all the aircraft absolutely guaranteed to be grounded.
>

** Nothing like my words at all - you vile, lying shithead.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

<j8t7oiFttv2U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:57:20 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 02:57 UTC

On 10/03/2022 11:37 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>>> keithr0 wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and leasing.
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>
>>>>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>>>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>>>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>
>>>>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>>>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>
>>>>> I which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline
>>>>> again EVER.
>
>>>> Certainly not while Putin is still president.
>
>>>  That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
>>> owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
>>> with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.
>
>> How is he going to pay them with SWIFT shut down,
>
> It hasn't been shut down and he is unlikely to keep
> delivering gas to european countrys if it isnt paid for.
>
>> and the Rouble in the toilet.
>
> Its not down that badly. And the lease
> fees aren't paid for in roubles anyway.

Even worse, the Rouble is only worth half what it was against the US
dollar, and the lease fees have to be paid in US dollars.

>>> Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
>>> China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
>>> flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
>>> to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
>>> used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.
>
>> China is possible but the range of Chinese aircraft is rather limited.
>
> China can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.

Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia

>> AFAIK, there are no Indian aircraft
>
> India can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.

Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia

>> so it would be limited to older  plane actually owned there.
>
> Just like the currently leased aircraft
> which are leased from Ireland etc, stupid.
>
>> Then there would still be the problems of  spares
>
> Nope, obviously China and India can sell them the
> spares they have and buy more to replace them.
>
> And like I said, with russia no longer being able to fly to
> anywhere much apart from russia, india and china etc,
> there is going to be much less need for spares.
>
>> and heavy maintenance.
>
> Even you should have noticed that it is just a tad unlikely
> that all heavy maintenance of russian built and russian
> military aircraft is done outside russia, so they can do
> the heavy maintenance. And again, much less will be
> needed than currently.

You obviously have no idea what is involved, just because you have the
facility to do heavy maintenance on Russian aircraft doesn't mean that
you can do the same for Boeing or AirBus ones. There is specialised
equipment required for each aircraft type.

>>>> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin
>>>> will be  gone and things might get back to normal.
>
>>>  Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
>>> his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.
>
>> You don't know that.
>
> He doesn't know his either.
>

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

<op.1isor1k9byq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 14:17:51 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 03:17 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> In which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline again
>>>> EVER.

>>> With over 500 STOLEN aircraft - that is a certainty.

>> Not if they keep paying the lease fees

> Not even possible.

Bullshit. They will certainly work out some way
of being paid for the gas and oil they export and
can use that money to pay the lease payments.

> > or the insurance covers it.

> Bullshit, like HELL it will.

You have no way of knowing what it covers.

>>> Lease companies have insurance against a few losses now
>>> and then but NOT 500 STOLEN by a rogue government.

>>> Russia cannot buy or lease virtually anything from other countries.

>> Thats wrong too with India, China and various other countrys
>> that chose not to apply sanctions against russia.

> Russia cannot be trusted to make payments to anyone.

It isn't about trust its about what payments happen.

>>> The trust they built up since 1990 is 100% GONE.

>> Just as pig ignorant a fantasy as your previous stupidity
>> about all the aircraft absolutely guaranteed to be grounded.

> Nothing like my words at all

You really should do something about your imposter, dole bludger.

>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrgI4gB5W2o

>>> Seems international sanctions are about to hitthe Russian airline
>>> business VERY hard. Couldend up grounding almost the whole fleet.

That was YOU, dole bludger.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 14:26:20 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 03:26 UTC

> Rod Speed wrote
>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>>>> keithr0 wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and
>>>>>>>> leasing.
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM

>>>>>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>>>>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>>>>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>>
>>>>>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>>>>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>>
>>>>>> I which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline
>>>>>> again EVER.
>>
>>>>> Certainly not while Putin is still president.
>>
>>>> That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
>>>> owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
>>>> with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.
>>
>>> How is he going to pay them with SWIFT shut down,

>> It hasn't been shut down and he is unlikely to keep
>> delivering gas to european countrys if it isnt paid for.

So he can get some of the gas payments
paid directly to the lease compays.

>>> and the Rouble in the toilet.

>> It's not down that badly. And the lease
>> fees aren't paid for in roubles anyway.

> Even worse, the Rouble is only worthhalf what it was against the
> USdollar,

Irrelevant given that the lease payments are in USD or Euros

> and the lease fees have to be paid in US dollars.

Wrong again, and the payments for the gas they
supply isn't paid for in roubles and the gas payments
are FAR higher than the lease payments.

>>>> Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
>>>> China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
>>>> flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
>>>> to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
>>>> used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.

>>> China is possible but the range of Chinese aircraft is rather limited.

>> China can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.

> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia

Wrong, as always.

>>> AFAIK, there are no Indian aircraft

>> India can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.

> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia

Wrong, as always.

>>> so it would be limited to older plane actually owned there.

>> Just like the currently leased aircraft
>> which are leased from Ireland etc, stupid.

>>> Then there would still be the problems of spares

>> Nope, obviously China and India can sell them the
>> spares they have and buy more to replace them.

>> And like I said, with russia no longer being able to fly to
>> anywhere much apart from russia, india and china etc,
>> there is going to be much less need for spares.

>>> and heavy maintenance.

>> Even you should have noticed that it is just a tad unlikely
>> that all heavy maintenance of russian built and russian
>> military aircraft is done outside russia, so they can do
>> the heavy maintenance. And again, much less will be
>> needed than currently.

> You obviously have no idea what is involved,

We'll see...

> just because you have the facility to do heavy maintenance on Russian
> aircraft doesn't mean that you can do the same for Boeing or AirBus ones.

Pathetic.

> There is specialised equipment required for each aircraft type.

And they are free to get that done in India and China, fuckwit.

And like I said, there will be far less of that that needs to be
done given that there are far fewer places they can fly to now.

>>>>> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin
>>>>> will be gone and things might get back to normal.

>>>> Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
>>>> his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.

>>> You don't know that.

>> He doesn't know his either.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 03:34:35 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Phil Allison - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 03:34 UTC

ALWAYS WRONG Rod Speed fuckwit wrote:
============================
> >
> >>>> In which case nobody will lease an aircraft to a Russian airline again
> >>>> EVER.
>
> >>> With over 500 STOLEN aircraft - that is a certainty.
>
> >> Not if they keep paying the lease fees
> > Not even possible.
>
> Bullshit.

** The lease company *called back* their planes under * terms in the contract*
- so making payments was NOT the issue and makes no effect.


> > Russia cannot be trusted to make payments to anyone.
>
> It isn't about trust

** It's ENTIRELY about trust.


> >>> Seems international sanctions are about to hit the Russian airline
> >>> business VERY hard. Could end up grounding almost the whole fleet.
>
> That was YOU,

** " Could " and " almost " are crucial words in the above.
I did not say how long it might take.
Maybe 5 or even 10 years.

FOAD you VILE MORON !!!!!

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

<j8tc47F46sU1@mid.individual.net>

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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
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In-Reply-To: <op.1iso56fnbyq249@pvr2.lan>
 by: keithr0 - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 04:11 UTC

On 10/03/2022 1:26 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> keithr0 wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressing Russian airlines and
>>>>>>>>> leasing.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>
>>>>>>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>>>>>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>>>>>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>>>>>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>>>
>>>>>>> I which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline
>>>>>>> again EVER.
>>>
>>>>>> Certainly not while Putin is still president.
>>>
>>>>>  That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
>>>>> owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
>>>>> with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.
>>>
>>>> How is he going to pay them with SWIFT shut down,
>
>>>  It hasn't been shut down and he is unlikely to keep
>>> delivering gas to european countrys if it isnt paid for.
>
> So he can get some of the gas payments
> paid directly to the lease compays.
>
>>>> and the Rouble in the toilet.
>
>>>  It's not down that badly. And the lease
>>> fees aren't paid for in roubles anyway.
>
>> Even worse, the Rouble is only worthhalf what it was against the
>> USdollar,
>
> Irrelevant given that the lease payments are in USD or Euros
>
>> and the lease fees have to be paid in US dollars.
>
> Wrong again, and the payments for the gas they
> supply isn't paid for in roubles and the gas payments
> are FAR higher than the lease payments.
>
>>>>> Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
>>>>> China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
>>>>> flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
>>>>> to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
>>>>> used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.
>
>>>> China is possible but the range of Chinese aircraft is rather limited.
>
>>>  China can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.
>
>> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia
>
> Wrong, as always.
>
>>>> AFAIK, there are no Indian aircraft
>
>>>  India can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.
>
>> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia
>
> Wrong, as always.
>
>>>> so it would be limited to older plane actually owned there.
>
>>>  Just like the currently leased aircraft
>>> which are leased from Ireland etc, stupid.
>
>>>> Then there would still be the problems of  spares
>
>>>  Nope, obviously China and India can sell them the
>>> spares they have and buy more to replace them.
>
>>> And like I said, with russia no longer being able to fly to
>>> anywhere much apart from russia, india and china etc,
>>> there is going to be much less need for spares.
>
>>>> and heavy maintenance.
>
>>> Even you should have noticed that it is just a tad unlikely
>>> that all heavy maintenance of russian built and russian
>>> military aircraft is done outside russia, so they can do
>>> the heavy maintenance. And again, much less will be
>>> needed than currently.
>
>> You obviously have no idea what is involved,
>
> We'll see...
>
>> just because you have the facility to do heavy maintenance on Russian
>> aircraft doesn't mean that you can do the same for Boeing or AirBus ones.
>
> Pathetic.
>
>> There is specialised  equipment required for each aircraft type.
>
> And they are free to get that done in India and China, fuckwit.
>
> And like I said, there will be far less of that that needs to be
> done given that there are far fewer places they can fly to now.
>
>>>>>> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin
>>>>>> will be  gone and things might get back to normal.
>
>>>>>  Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
>>>>> his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.
>
>>>> You don't know that.
>
>>>  He doesn't know his either.

Gee rod, you always were senile, but it looks like dementure has got you
now.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

<op.1iss8cpwbyq249@pvr2.lan>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1081&group=aus.aviation#1081

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:54:02 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 04:54 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>> In which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline
>>>>>> again EVER.

>>>>> With over 500 STOLEN aircraft - that is a certainty.

>>>> Not if they keep paying the lease fees

>>> Not even possible.

>> Bullshit.

> The lease company *called back* theirplanes under * terms in the
> contract*

And would obviously prefer to keep being paid
the lease fees instead of have Putin telling them
that they won't be seeing the planes returned.

> so making payments was NOT the issue

But would be as an alternative to Putin telling them
that they won't be seeing the planes returned.

> and makes no effect.

Wrong, as always.

>>> Russia cannot be trusted to make payments to anyone.

>> It isn't about trust

> It's ENTIRELY about trust.

Bullshit it is if Putin keeps making the payments.

>>> Just as pig ignorant a fantasy as your previous stupidity
>>> about all the aircraft absolutely guaranteed to be grounded.

>> Nothing like my words at all

>>>>> Seems international sanctions are about to hit the Russian airline
>>>>> business VERY hard. Could end up grounding almost the whole fleet.

>> That was YOU,

> " Could " and " almost " are crucial words in the above.

Nope, you stupidly said NOTHING LIKE you pathetic excuse for a bullshit
artist.

> I did not say how long it might take.
> Maybe 5 or even 10 years.

Not gunna happen given that the sanctions
are very unlikely to last that long and given
the obvious alternatives Putin has with the
leased and owned and russian made aircraft.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:56:21 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 04:56 UTC

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> keithr0 wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressingRussian airlines and
>>>>>>>>>> leasing.
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM

>>>>>>>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>>>>>>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>>>>>>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>>>>>>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline
>>>>>>>> again EVER.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Certainly not while Putin is still president.
>>>>
>>>>>> That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
>>>>>> owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
>>>>>> with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.
>>>>
>>>>> How is he going to pay them with SWIFT shut down,
>>
>>>> It hasn't been shut down and he is unlikely to keep
>>>> delivering gas to european countrys if it isnt paid for.
>> So he can get some of the gas payments
>> paid directly to the lease compays.
>>
>>>>> and the Rouble in the toilet.
>>
>>>> It's not down that badly. And the lease
>>>> fees aren't paid for in roubles anyway.
>>
>>> Even worse, the Rouble is only worthhalf what it was against the
>>> USdollar,
>> Irrelevant given that the lease payments are in USD or Euros
>>
>>> and the lease fees have to be paid in US dollars.
>> Wrong again, and the payments for the gas they
>> supply isn't paid for in roubles and the gas payments
>> are FAR higher than the lease payments.
>>
>>>>>> Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
>>>>>> China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
>>>>>> flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
>>>>>> to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
>>>>>> used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.
>>
>>>>> China is possible but the range of Chinese aircraft is rather
>>>>> limited.
>>
>>>> China can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.
>>
>>> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia
>> Wrong, as always.
>>
>>>>> AFAIK, there are no Indian aircraft
>>
>>>> India can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.
>>
>>> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia
>> Wrong, as always.
>>
>>>>> so it would be limited to older plane actually owned there.
>>
>>>> Just like the currently leased aircraft
>>>> which are leased from Ireland etc, stupid.
>>
>>>>> Then there would still be the problems of spares
>>
>>>> Nope, obviously China and India can sell them the
>>>> spares they have and buy more to replace them.
>>
>>>> And like I said, with russia no longer being able to fly to
>>>> anywhere much apart from russia, india and china etc,
>>>> there is going to be much less need for spares.
>>
>>>>> and heavy maintenance.
>>
>>>> Even you should have noticed that it is just a tad unlikely
>>>> that all heavy maintenance of russian built and russian
>>>> military aircraft is done outside russia, so they can do
>>>> the heavy maintenance. And again, much less will be
>>>> needed than currently.
>>
>>> You obviously have no idea what is involved,
>> We'll see...
>>
>>> just because you have the facility to do heavy maintenance on Russian
>>> aircraft doesn't mean that you can do the same for Boeing or AirBus
>>> ones.
>> Pathetic.
>>
>>> There is specialised equipment required for each aircraft type.
>> And they are free to get that done in India and China, fuckwit.
>> And like I said, there will be far less of that that needs to be
>> done given that there are far fewer places they can fly to now.
>>
>>>>>>> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin
>>>>>>> will be gone and things might get back to normal.
>>
>>>>>> Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
>>>>>> his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.
>>
>>>>> You don't know that.
>>
>>>> He doesn't know his either.

<reams of your shit any 3 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs>

Whoops, nothing left, wota surprise.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 05:48:21 +0000
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 by: Phil Allison - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 05:48 UTC

FUCKWIT Rod Speed is out of ideas:

==========================
>
> > The lease company *called back* their planes under * terms in the
> > contract*
>
> And would obviously prefer to keep being paid
> the lease fees

** Nope - they want no part of dealing with Russia.

> > so making payments was NOT the issue
>
> But would be as an alternative to Putin telling them
> that they won't be seeing the planes returned.

** WRONG - cos accepting payments would give Russia excuse for keeping hold of them.

Opposite of the whole intent of the recall.
=================================

> > It's ENTIRELY about trust.
>
> Bullshit it is if Putin keeps making the payments.

** No way can that hope be trusted.

...... Phil

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 19:50:18 +1100
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 08:50 UTC

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> The lease company *called back* theirplanes under * terms in the
>>> contract*

>> And would obviously prefer to keep being paid
>> the lease fees

> Nope

Corse they would, dole bludger.

> they want no part of dealing with Russia.

Corse they would prefer to get paid the lease fees
rather than lose their planes, dole bludger.

>>> so making payments was NOT the issue

>> But would be as an alternative to Putin telling them
>> that they won't be seeing the planes returned.

> WRONG - cos accepting payments wouldgive Russia excuse for keeping
> hold of them.

Putin doesn't need any excuse, dole bludger.

> Opposite of the whole intent of the recall.

Irrelevant to what they get if Putin doesn't allow any recall, dole
bludger.

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

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Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 01:41:01 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:41 UTC

Rod Speed had NO BRAIN AT ALL.

==============================
>
> >>> The lease company *called back* their vplanes under * terms in the
> >>> contract*
>
> >> And would obviously prefer to keep being paid
> >> the lease fees
>
> > Nope - they want no part of dealing with Russia.
>
> Corse they would prefer to get paid the lease fees
> rather than lose their planes,

** That is not the situation at all !!!!
Accepting payments gives Russia LEGAL excuse for keeping hold of them.

YOU FUCKING FUCKWIT MORON !!!

...... Phil

Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?

<j8u7btF5597U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1086&group=aus.aviation#1086

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Russian airlines now pariahs ?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 21:56:45 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <op.1istb7dhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
 by: keithr0 - Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:56 UTC

On 10/03/2022 2:56 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> keithr0 wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Magani <cdsross@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>>> Another Mentour Pilot video addressingRussian airlines and
>>>>>>>>>>> leasing.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4gCE4ccRM
>
>>>>>>>>>> So, like I said previously, Putin isnt going to allow the leased
>>>>>>>>>> aircraft to be returned and there is no way that all russian
>>>>>>>>>> aircraft will now be grounded as Filty stupidly claimed.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Putin couldn't care less if the owners of the leased aircraft
>>>>>>>>>> don't like it, they get to lump it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I which case nobody will lease an aircraftto a Russian airline
>>>>>>>>> again EVER.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Certainly not while Putin is still president.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  That remains to be seen. Putin could just keep paying the
>>>>>>> owners of the aircraft and so they would be quite happy
>>>>>>> with that result, not being able to comply with sanctions.
>>>>>
>>>>>> How is he going to pay them with SWIFT shut down,
>>>
>>>>>  It hasn't been shut down and he is unlikely to keep
>>>>> delivering gas to european countrys if it isnt paid for.
>>>  So he can get some of the gas payments
>>> paid directly to the lease compays.
>>>
>>>>>> and the Rouble in the toilet.
>>>
>>>>>  It's not down that badly. And the lease
>>>>> fees aren't paid for in roubles anyway.
>>>
>>>> Even worse, the Rouble is only worthhalf what it was against the
>>>> USdollar,
>>>  Irrelevant given that the lease payments are in USD or Euros
>>>
>>>> and the lease fees have to be paid in US dollars.
>>>  Wrong again, and the payments for the gas they
>>> supply isn't paid for in roubles and the gas payments
>>> are FAR higher than the lease payments.
>>>
>>>>>>> Or not bother to lease aircraft from other than India and
>>>>>>> China in future and decide that with the cancellation of
>>>>>>> flights outside russia, india and china, that they dont' need
>>>>>>> to lease any more in future and and just buy them on the
>>>>>>> used aircraft market instead. Plenty of those available.
>>>
>>>>>> China is possible but the range of Chinese aircraft is rather
>>>>>> limited.
>>>
>>>>>  China can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.
>>>
>>>> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia
>>>  Wrong, as always.
>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK, there are no Indian aircraft
>>>
>>>>>  India can lease them american or airbus aircraft, stupid.
>>>
>>>> Not if they are sub-leasing them to Russia
>>>  Wrong, as always.
>>>
>>>>>> so it would be limited to older plane actually owned there.
>>>
>>>>>  Just like the currently leased aircraft
>>>>> which are leased from Ireland etc, stupid.
>>>
>>>>>> Then there would still be the problems of  spares
>>>
>>>>>  Nope, obviously China and India can sell them the
>>>>> spares they have and buy more to replace them.
>>>
>>>>> And like I said, with russia no longer being able to fly to
>>>>> anywhere much apart from russia, india and china etc,
>>>>> there is going to be much less need for spares.
>>>
>>>>>> and heavy maintenance.
>>>
>>>>> Even you should have noticed that it is just a tad unlikely
>>>>> that all heavy maintenance of russian built and russian
>>>>> military aircraft is done outside russia, so they can do
>>>>> the heavy maintenance. And again, much less will be
>>>>> needed than currently.
>>>
>>>> You obviously have no idea what is involved,
>>>  We'll see...
>>>
>>>> just because you have the facility to do heavy maintenance on
>>>> Russian aircraft doesn't mean that you can do the same for Boeing or
>>>> AirBus ones.
>>>  Pathetic.
>>>
>>>> There is specialised  equipment required for each aircraft type.
>>>  And they are free to get that done in India and China, fuckwit.
>>>  And like I said, there will be far less of that that needs to be
>>> done given that there are far fewer places they can fly to now.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Impossible to predict the future but sooner or later Putin
>>>>>>>> will be  gone and things might get back to normal.
>>>
>>>>>>>  Or if Putin does occupy the Ukraine, it is unlikely that
>>>>>>> his replacement would decide to pull out after he goes.
>>>
>>>>>> You don't know that.
>>>
>>>>>  He doesn't know his either.
>
> <reams of your shit any 3 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
> belongs>
>
> Whoops, nothing left, wota surprise.

<yawn> same old rod now with added dementia.

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