Tim wrote:
> ogden wrote:
> > I'm having to look at getting a whooping cough vaccine.
>
> Make sure you do get it too. Getting whooping cough (pertussis) is
> fucking nasty. I had a blue light trip into A&E because my GP was so
> concerned. After x-rays, arterial bloods (that stings a bit), and
> 12-lead ECG. Load of other stuff may have happened too but I wasn't
> really aware of what was going on (no comments at the back, thank you).

Were you not immunised as a kid? Or were you just unlucky enough to catch it as an adult regardless?

I'm having to get the vaccine (as a booster) to protect the newborn mentioned in the rest of the post, not myself.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:16:15 +0100, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:

>On 22/06/2022 11:12, ogden wrote:
>>
>> FFP2+/N95 masks, maybe. But the masks most people have been wearing? Pointless. Hence why they're no longer recommended.
>
>Anybody with any sense has switched to FFP2 masks anyway, haven't they?

Anyone who's job/role/life brings then into contact with lots of
potentially infected people, sure, but the general public? Naa, I
don't think so. Let's face it, most people only wore maskes, when they
were mandated, _because_ they were mandated. So the cheaper the better
was the main element of mask selection, I think.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 22/06/2022 11:16, Eddie wrote:
> On 22/06/2022 11:12, ogden wrote:
>>
>> FFP2+/N95 masks, maybe. But the masks most people have been wearing?
>> Pointless. Hence why they're no longer recommended.
>
> Anybody with any sense has switched to FFP2 masks anyway, haven't they?
>
<guilty>
no
</g>
Jean does/did at work. But they just had to hand a load back as
apparently they were "faulty"

I should review my washable option perhaps.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 22/06/2022 11:35, Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:16:15 +0100, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>
>> Anybody with any sense has switched to FFP2 masks anyway, haven't they?
>
> Anyone who's job/role/life brings then into contact with lots of
> potentially infected people, sure, but the general public? Naa, I
> don't think so. Let's face it, most people only wore maskes, when they
> were mandated, _because_ they were mandated. So the cheaper the better
> was the main element of mask selection, I think.

FFP2 masks are pretty cheap. Box of 20 for £12.99 including postage.
They can be reused, as long as you have enough to leave 4+ days between
each use, until they're dirty or no longer seal effectively.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 22/06/2022 12:11, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 22/06/2022 11:16, Eddie wrote:
>>
>> Anybody with any sense has switched to FFP2 masks anyway, haven't they?
>>
> <guilty>
> no
> </g>
> Jean does/did at work. But they just had to hand a load back as
> apparently they were "faulty"
>
> I should review my washable option perhaps.

Ewwwww.

https://thefacemaskstore.co.uk/omnitex-ffp2-black-face-masks-box-of-20/

Leave them 4+ days between each use, and you can reuse them until they
no longer seal effectively or look dirty. (Harder to tell with black
ones, mind, but I find that the nose seal usually fails before that.)

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote in news:t8utck$j5b$1@dont-email.me:

> On 22/06/2022 11:16, Eddie wrote:
>> On 22/06/2022 11:12, ogden wrote:
>>>
>>> FFP2+/N95 masks, maybe. But the masks most people have been wearing?
>>> Pointless. Hence why they're no longer recommended.
>>
>> Anybody with any sense has switched to FFP2 masks anyway, haven't they?
>>
> <guilty>
> no
> </g>
> Jean does/did at work. But they just had to hand a load back as
> apparently they were "faulty"
>
> I should review my washable option perhaps.
>

in care settings, FFP2 & FFP3 should be fit tested to ensure they seal
properly. Not everyone has the right shape face. The nurse that does our
fit testing carries several brands to try to get a good fit.

I'm not sure whether buying random FFP2 that might or might fit properly
has any great advantage to a domestic customer, apart from providing
additional sense of being safe, or maybe increasing bravado so you take
more risk.

On 22/06/2022 14:23, Eddie wrote:
> On 22/06/2022 12:11, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 22/06/2022 11:16, Eddie wrote:
>>>
>>> Anybody with any sense has switched to FFP2 masks anyway, haven't they?
>>>
>> <guilty>
>> no
>> </g>
>> Jean does/did at work. But they just had to hand a load back as
>> apparently they were "faulty"
>>
>> I should review my washable option perhaps.
>
> Ewwwww.
>

Maybe, but as per subject line .... 831 days :-) And it was via the NHS
we caught it.

They now give patients the option of staff attending with or without
PPE. (unless imunosuppressed). And apparently 100% said "Without please".

On the Monday Jean and 3 others were doing close work with a care patient.

Ho hum.

> https://thefacemaskstore.co.uk/omnitex-ffp2-black-face-masks-box-of-20/
Worth a punt.

>
> Leave them 4+ days between each use, and you can reuse them until they
> no longer seal effectively or look dirty. (Harder to tell with black
> ones, mind, but I find that the nose seal usually fails before that.)
>
>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 22/06/2022 16:41 Champ penned these words:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 00:04:45 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 20/06/2022 14:01, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 20/06/2022 12:10, wessie wrote:
>>>> [1] I will probably get infected when I go to Aldi later
>>>
>>> What? Do you not mask up[1] there? I still have done/do/will do.
>>>
>>> [1] I know it is to protect others, but every little helps[2]
>>> [2] I never go there.
>
>> I've decided to stop bothering (except for clinics and hospitals).
>> Others aren't trying to protect me, why the fuck should I care about them?
>
> Because it's the right thing to do.
>
> Just because others are selfish arseholes, you don't need to be too
> or 2
This ^^^ albeit I almost wavered in London when L & I and maybe 1 other others
were the only ones on the bus/train making the effort.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 22/06/2022 11:25, ogden wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>> ogden wrote:
>>> I'm having to look at getting a whooping cough vaccine.
>>
>> Make sure you do get it too. Getting whooping cough (pertussis) is
>> fucking nasty. I had a blue light trip into A&E because my GP was so
>> concerned. After x-rays, arterial bloods (that stings a bit), and
>> 12-lead ECG. Load of other stuff may have happened too but I wasn't
>> really aware of what was going on (no comments at the back, thank you).
>
> Were you not immunised as a kid? Or were you just unlucky enough to catch it as an adult regardless?
>

I was immunised as a kid, and yes it wears off.

"These vaccines don't offer lifelong protection from whooping cough, but
they can help stop children getting it when they're young and more
vulnerable to the effects of the infection." [1]

> I'm having to get the vaccine (as a booster) to protect the newborn mentioned in the rest of the post, not myself.

Ah, I missed that.

[1]
https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/infections-and-poisoning/whooping-cough#vaccination

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 03:12:46 -0700 (PDT), ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Champ wrote:
>> Mike Fleming wrote:
>> >YTC#1 wrote:
>> >> wessie wrote:
>> >>> I will probably get infected when I go to Aldi later
>> >>
>> >> What? Do you not mask up[1] there? I still have done/do/will do.
>> >> [1] I know it is to protect others, but every little helps
>>
>> >I've decided to stop bothering (except for clinics and hospitals).
>> >Others aren't trying to protect me, why the fuck should I care about them?
>>
>> Because it's the right thing to do.

>Is it though?
>
>Omicron seems to be infectious enough that the attenuation by wearing a fabric or surgical mask is insufficient to either reduce transmission by any meaningful degree,
>or reduce it below a meaningful threshold.

>FFP2+/N95 masks, maybe. But the masks most people have been wearing? Pointless. Hence why they're no longer recommended.

That's a different argument, and you may well be right.

I was disagreeing with the argument "Others aren't trying to protect
me, why the fuck should I care about them?"
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 22/06/2022 10:02, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 21/06/2022 19:18, wessie wrote:
>> YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote in news:t8t1gu$ikb$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21/06/2022 17:25, ogden wrote:
>>>> YTC#1 wrote:
>>>>> wessie wrote:
>>>>>> in general, yes, but Austria has form for being different in terms
>>>>>> of entry requirements at short notice
>>>>>> of course, if riding in via the land borders (all Schengen now)
>>>>>> then unlikely to be a problem as there won't be checks. Flying in,
>>>>>> then you want to be compliant.
>>>>>
>>>>> But as the vaccines don't expire, only the pass does,it does not
>>>>> make sense that 1 single country will suddenly say "you need a 4th
>>>>> jab, or you can't come it, go ask your NHS".
>>>>
>>>> Why not? The antibody levels produced by vaccination will tail off
>>>> over time, and infection will become more likely. Vaccines do,
>>>> effectively, "expire".
>>>
>>> Ok, I'll re-ask the question.
>>> Where has it been seen that the booster will expire and another is
>>> needed? I can't find it.
>>>
>>
>> you won't find it but there is a **risk** that come autumn as the newer
>> sub-variants take a grip, there is a risk that a 2022 booster will
>> become a requirement - Covid rules have varied across different
>
> That, I understand and agree with. I always knew it was never a one hit.
> It was just Geoff's origianl "booster expire" statement I was querying.
>
> As he is eleigable for the 4th one, that makes sense. But
> vaccines/booster don't expire as such, just lose efficiancy/effavecy
> over time (or are not suitable for new varients(

Well, they do both. They expire outside you (you'll find all medication
has an expiry date on it), and the antibodies generated as an immune
response gradually fade away.

On Fri, 24 Jun 2022 00:39:54 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>Well, they do both. They expire outside you (you'll find all medication
>has an expiry date on it)

In nearly all cases this is not representative of the drug itself
deteriorating or losing its efficacy, but simply that packaging
materials may start to degrade, which may in turn lead to damp or air
ingress, or leakage.

So in general (but of course for something critical like vaccines you
a)wouldn't take it on trust and b)wouldn't be storing it at home
anyway) as long as the packaging looks OK there's ne reason at all
that that 20-year-old box of e.g. painkillers at the back of the
medicine cupboard should not be used.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

Champ wibbled:

> > Pff. Waves from a big city. No one in our household has had it yet.
>
> I'm genuinely impressed

I honestly don't know how we've done it. Having two invincible
teenagers that need take no protection is probably it.

--
Cab
Z1000 and CB1300 and VeloSolex 3800

On 24/06/2022 08:38, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2022 00:39:54 +0100, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, they do both. They expire outside you (you'll find all medication
>> has an expiry date on it)
>
> In nearly all cases this is not representative of the drug itself
> deteriorating or losing its efficacy, but simply that packaging
> materials may start to degrade, which may in turn lead to damp or air
> ingress, or leakage.
>
> So in general (but of course for something critical like vaccines you
> a)wouldn't take it on trust and b)wouldn't be storing it at home
> anyway) as long as the packaging looks OK there's ne reason at all
> that that 20-year-old box of e.g. painkillers at the back of the
> medicine cupboard should not be used.

It's important for me in my job working on a pharmaceutical distribution
system though.

On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 14:18:31 UTC+1, Eddie wrote:

> FFP2 masks are pretty cheap. Box of 20 for £12.99 including postage.
> They can be reused, as long as you have enough to leave 4+ days between
> each use, until they're dirty or no longer seal effectively.

Hmm I've spent more time than most in airline suits, respirators and filter masks. Generally pretty glad to get the disposable FFP2/3 type masks off. Half masks with twin disposable filters not so much, but they are quite Hannibal Lecter in public (1)

Of course beards introduce a world of complication. Updated research and advice:
www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr1052.pdf
last time I was involved (pre covid) the NHS was turning a cowardly blind eye to religious buffoonery - consequences of. Hmm I wonder if that goes any way to explain the impact of covid on a certain demographic (2)

(1) my Respro City Mask used with a modular helmet riding in Lunnon garnered some "responses", this before they became more popular with cyclists
(2) Darwin should never be frustrated
--
Hog
'89 R100RS '96 Bastard12
BOB#5 OSOS#31 COFF#22 BOTAFOT#122

Hog wrote:
> Eddie wrote:
>
> > FFP2 masks are pretty cheap. Box of 20 for £12.99 including postage.
> > They can be reused, as long as you have enough to leave 4+ days between
> > each use, until they're dirty or no longer seal effectively.
>
> Hmm I've spent more time than most in airline suits, respirators and filter masks. Generally pretty glad to get the disposable FFP2/3 type masks off..

I've bought a box of them, but I'm *really* not looking forward to having to wear them for 27 hours straight (give or take a few meals) when flying to Sydney in a couple of months. My best case scenario is delays at the airport that mean I miss my flight.

On Thursday, 7 July 2022 at 15:17:36 UTC+1, ogden wrote:
> Hog wrote:
> > Eddie wrote:
> >
> > > FFP2 masks are pretty cheap. Box of 20 for £12.99 including postage.
> > > They can be reused, as long as you have enough to leave 4+ days between
> > > each use, until they're dirty or no longer seal effectively.
> >
> > Hmm I've spent more time than most in airline suits, respirators and filter masks. Generally pretty glad to get the disposable FFP2/3 type masks off.
> I've bought a box of them, but I'm *really* not looking forward to having to wear them for 27 hours straight (give or take a few meals) when flying to Sydney in a couple of months. My best case scenario is delays at the airport that mean I miss my flight.

Even flying in/for business I've never wanted to do the Oz/NZ flight. I daresay you have some good/inescapable reason.

Is Porl still living there?

On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 02:54:56 -0700 (PDT), Hog <york996@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Even flying in/for business I've never wanted to do the Oz/NZ flight. I daresay you have some good/inescapable reason.

I can't see a good reason to travel that far other than for business
or to relocate, and I'd need a damn' good reason to do the latter.

12-14hrs to Hong Kong or Shanghai is bad enough.

--

-Pip

On Saturday, 9 July 2022 at 11:28:34 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 02:54:56 -0700 (PDT), Hog <yor...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Even flying in/for business I've never wanted to do the Oz/NZ flight. I daresay you have some good/inescapable reason.
> I can't see a good reason to travel that far other than for business
> or to relocate, and I'd need a damn' good reason to do the latter.

My brother in law lives in Melbourne. I've visited a couple of times and probably will again.

Quite like Aus, but the flight's hateful, especially when it's a crammed budget flight. Best to
split it at Singapore/Hong Kong/Bangkok.

Would quite like to spend a few months there on a bike really. Not sure how I swing that.
Maybe it gets added to the list for 'the next life'.

On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 06:52:28 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 9 July 2022 at 11:28:34 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 02:54:56 -0700 (PDT), Hog <yor...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >Even flying in/for business I've never wanted to do the Oz/NZ flight. I daresay you have some good/inescapable reason.
>> I can't see a good reason to travel that far other than for business
>> or to relocate, and I'd need a damn' good reason to do the latter.
>
>My brother in law lives in Melbourne. I've visited a couple of times and probably will again.
>
>Quite like Aus, but the flight's hateful, especially when it's a crammed budget flight. Best to
>split it at Singapore/Hong Kong/Bangkok.
>
>Would quite like to spend a few months there on a bike really. Not sure how I swing that.
>Maybe it gets added to the list for 'the next life'.

Ah, relatives, fair point.

Actually, I would put up with a long flight one day to visit Japan.

--

-Pip

On Saturday, 9 July 2022 at 15:14:44 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:

> Actually, I would put up with a long flight one day to visit Japan.

Good choice. I loved it.

The Japanese were great to work with.

On 09/07/2022 18:28 Pipl penned these words:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 02:54:56 -0700 (PDT), Hog <york996@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Even flying in/for business I've never wanted to do the Oz/NZ flight. I daresay you have some good/inescapable reason.
>
> I can't see a good reason to travel that far other than for business
> or to relocate, and I'd need a damn' good reason to do the latter.
>
> 12-14hrs to Hong Kong or Shanghai is bad enough.
>

It's okay if you have the time to do a stop and explore at the swap planes point
i.e.spend a couple of days in Bangkok/Singapore/KL et al and choose a different
stopover on the way back.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"