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aus+uk / uk.comp.homebuilt / Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

SubjectAuthor
* Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Philip Herlihy
+* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Philip Herlihy
|+* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11SH
||`* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Theo
|| `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Theo
||  `- Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andy
|+* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andrew
||`* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Philip Herlihy
|| `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andrew
||  `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andrew
||   `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Theo
||    `- Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andrew
|`* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andy Burns
| `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Theo
|  `- Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andy Burns
+* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Raj Kundra
|`* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Philip Herlihy
| `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Adrian Caspersz
|  `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Philip Herlihy
|   `* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Adrian Caspersz
|    +- Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Jeff Gaines
|    `- Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Philip Herlihy
+- Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Andy
`* Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11David
 `- Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11Philip Herlihy

1
Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<MPG.3b4041d810f1439898994c@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: thiswill...@you.com (Philip Herlihy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:41:53 +0100
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:41 UTC

I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
- until I saw the bill.

Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
a supported processor.

Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?

--

Phil, London

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<MPG.3b4042265ec1922a98994d@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: thiswill...@you.com (Philip Herlihy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:43:18 +0100
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:43 UTC

In article <MPG.3b4041d810f1439898994c@news.eternal-september.org>,
thiswillbounceback@you.com says...
>
> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
> - until I saw the bill.
>
> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
> a supported processor.
>
> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?

You can check compatibility using the "PC Health Check" utility on this page:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11#pchealthcheck

Direct download:
https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp

--

Phil, London

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<sb5cva$mcu$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: i.love.s...@spam.com (SH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 21:06:03 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: SH - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:06 UTC

On 25/06/2021 20:43, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <MPG.3b4041d810f1439898994c@news.eternal-september.org>,
> thiswillbounceback@you.com says...
>>
>> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
>> - until I saw the bill.
>>
>> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
>> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
>> a supported processor.
>>
>> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
>> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
>> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
>
> You can check compatibility using the "PC Health Check" utility on this page:
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11#pchealthcheck
>
> Direct download:
> https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp
>

Hmmm.... I built my new PC in January of this year using a Z390 mobo and
10th gen Intel CPU......

running the PC health check app gives me:

This PC can't run Windows 11

TPM 2.0 is a requirement for running Windows 11.

We recommend that you check if TPM 2.0 is enabled.

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<xXB*16yny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: 25 Jun 2021 21:21:43 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:21 UTC

SH <i.love.spam@spam.com> wrote:
> Hmmm.... I built my new PC in January of this year using a Z390 mobo and
> 10th gen Intel CPU......
>
> running the PC health check app gives me:
>
> This PC can't run Windows 11
>
> TPM 2.0 is a requirement for running Windows 11.
>
> We recommend that you check if TPM 2.0 is enabled.

Some mobos have a firmware TPM or fTPM - perhaps you can enable that in
BIOS?

I think the TPM requirement is going to bite a lot of people - apparently
what tiny stocks of TPM modules there were were flying off the shelves
yesterday. Supposedly TPM has been a requirement for OEM windows machines
since 2016, but that doesn't cover machines assembled by third parties, and
I don't know the situation with laptops (where you can't simply plug in a
TPM module to a motherboard header).

Even if there is a TPM, if it's disabled in BIOS it's going to make it
tricky for a lot of people. BIOSes/UEFIs often have terrible UIs and a
setting like this is likely buried very deep.

Theo

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<vXB*Onzny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: 25 Jun 2021 22:41:53 +0100 (BST)
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 21:41 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Even if there is a TPM, if it's disabled in BIOS it's going to make it
> tricky for a lot of people. BIOSes/UEFIs often have terrible UIs and a
> setting like this is likely buried very deep.

Lots of fun and some info here:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/heres-what-youll-need-to-upgrade-to-windows-11/

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
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 by: Andy - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 10:09 UTC

On 25/06/2021 22:41, Theo wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Even if there is a TPM, if it's disabled in BIOS it's going to make it
>> tricky for a lot of people. BIOSes/UEFIs often have terrible UIs and a
>> setting like this is likely buried very deep.
>
> Lots of fun and some info here:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/heres-what-youll-need-to-upgrade-to-windows-11/
>
Interesting, I got the "you've not got a secure boot" from the pc health
check from MS, but your article says:

"The requirement for UEFI seems likely to be just what it says on the
tin—no more legacy BIOS installs for anyone!—but there might be a slight
odor of weasel in the phrasing "Secure Boot capability." We won't know
for sure until Windows 11 Insider images start becoming available, but
we suspect that "capability" is likely an important word. Secure Boot
itself may not be mandatory"

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<sb7iir$ukm$1@dont-email.me>

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From: raj...@kundracomputers.co.uk (Raj Kundra)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:54:03 +0100
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 by: Raj Kundra - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 15:54 UTC

On 25/06/2021 20:41, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
> - until I saw the bill.
>
> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
> a supported processor.
>
> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
>
>
If windows 10 runs ok and does all you need, then why worry about
Windows 11?

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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 by: Andy - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 16:42 UTC

On 25/06/2021 20:41, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
> - until I saw the bill.
>
> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
> a supported processor.
>
> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
>
>
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide

15.5% worldwide

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: thiswill...@you.com (Philip Herlihy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:35:14 +0100
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:35 UTC

In article <sb7iir$ukm$1@dont-email.me>, raj@kundracomputers.co.uk says...
>
> On 25/06/2021 20:41, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
> > - until I saw the bill.
> >
> > Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
> > laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
> > a supported processor.
> >
> > Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
> > hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
> > insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
> >
> >
> If windows 10 runs ok and does all you need, then why worry about
> Windows 11?

I'm semi-retired, and the "business" is little more than a pocket-money hobby
these days, but I do still support a few long-standing customers. And there
are indeed a few UI tweaks that look appealing. Curious to keep up, as well.

I think the way I'll go is keep the existing machines running for as long as I
can keep them secure, but I'll buy a W11 tablet as soon as they come out. I've
wanted an excuse to buy a really good tablet for years!

--

Phil, London

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<ijr6h6Fbo41U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ema...@here.invalid (Adrian Caspersz)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:42:30 +0100
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 by: Adrian Caspersz - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:42 UTC

On 27/06/2021 12:35, Philip Herlihy wrote:

> I think the way I'll go is keep the existing machines running for as long as I
> can keep them secure, but I'll buy a W11 tablet as soon as they come out. I've
> wanted an excuse to buy a really good tablet for years!
>

I used a purchase of a Windows 10 tablet as an excuse to align myself
with tablet working practices, at a time when Microsoft was keen to push it.

Thought it would be great to use as a device to read and annotate
documentation.

That has been a failure. I hardly use it, much preferring an iPad.

--
Adrian C

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: thiswill...@you.com (Philip Herlihy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:46:34 +0100
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:46 UTC

In article <ijr6h6Fbo41U1@mid.individual.net>, email@here.invalid says...
>
> On 27/06/2021 12:35, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>
> > I think the way I'll go is keep the existing machines running for as long as I
> > can keep them secure, but I'll buy a W11 tablet as soon as they come out. I've
> > wanted an excuse to buy a really good tablet for years!
> >
>
> I used a purchase of a Windows 10 tablet as an excuse to align myself
> with tablet working practices, at a time when Microsoft was keen to push it.
>
> Thought it would be great to use as a device to read and annotate
> documentation.
>
> That has been a failure. I hardly use it, much preferring an iPad.

Why's the iPad better for you?

--

Phil, London

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
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 by: Andrew - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 15:47 UTC

On 25/06/2021 20:43, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <MPG.3b4041d810f1439898994c@news.eternal-september.org>,
> thiswillbounceback@you.com says...
>>
>> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
>> - until I saw the bill.
>>
>> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
>> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
>> a supported processor.
>>
>> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
>> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
>> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
>
> You can check compatibility using the "PC Health Check" utility on this page:
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11#pchealthcheck
>
> Direct download:
> https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp
>

I can't even run the healthcheck download. Strange error about
contacting my vendor. Its an AMD Phenom X6 1055 running at
2.80 ghz with 4G ram and Win 10/32 Pro.

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: ema...@here.invalid (Adrian Caspersz)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
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 by: Adrian Caspersz - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 22:30 UTC

On 27/06/2021 13:46, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <ijr6h6Fbo41U1@mid.individual.net>, email@here.invalid says...

>> I used a purchase of a Windows 10 tablet as an excuse to align myself
>>
>> That has been a failure. I hardly use it, much preferring an iPad.
>
> Why's the iPad better for you?
>

The applications that Windows 10 made available for touch use (universal
apps) were to me lacking compared to their desktop equivalents, and I
found myself running the desktop app versions (adobe reader, office
2013) on it, with effectively one hand tied behind my back, not having a
mouse to click. Of course, I could add one and a keyboard and turn it
into a laptop ... erm, got many of those ...

On the iPad, my reading was better supported straight off, and touch
gestures are just standard Apple, just like my phone. I don't miss a
mouse or a keyboard, as those apps only have to support the the Apple
touch UI. Initially thinking that it wouldn't do for typing, I bought a
keyboard for the iPad. Hardly use that. (Bloomin' Amazon overclicking....).

If Microsoft could have bravely launched a true tablet OS, without
muddying it up with desktop mode, that could have encouraged developers
to take the interface seriously, moving on from Windows Mobile perhaps.

I was a Windows Mobile 6.5 stylus using user who one day bought an iPod
Touch and an iPhone was naturally next.

Currently I'm WFH using MS Teams, and idly wondering if I can use this
tablet as a remote whiteboard to my Teams session open on works provided
laptop. But too much other things to worry about at the moment.

--
Adrian C

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: 28 Jun 2021 07:51:55 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 07:51 UTC

On 27/06/2021 in message <ijscfrFir99U1@mid.individual.net> Adrian
Caspersz wrote:

>If Microsoft could have bravely launched a true tablet OS, without
>muddying it up with desktop mode, that could have encouraged developers to
>take the interface seriously, moving on from Windows Mobile perhaps.

Hear, hear. Android and IOS were designed for touch screens from the start
and they work (and scale) well. I have a couple of tablets with Windows 10
and they just don't hack it in terms of usability or scaling.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
was responsible went immediately.
(Gordon Brown, April 2009)

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: thiswill...@you.com (Philip Herlihy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 11:00:35 +0100
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 10:00 UTC

In article <sba6ij$1805$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com
says...
>
> On 25/06/2021 20:43, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > In article <MPG.3b4041d810f1439898994c@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > thiswillbounceback@you.com says...
> >>
> >> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
> >> - until I saw the bill.
> >>
> >> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
> >> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
> >> a supported processor.
> >>
> >> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
> >> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
> >> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
> >
> > You can check compatibility using the "PC Health Check" utility on this page:
> > https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11#pchealthcheck
> >
> > Direct download:
> > https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp
> >
>
> I can't even run the healthcheck download. Strange error about
> contacting my vendor. Its an AMD Phenom X6 1055 running at
> 2.80 ghz with 4G ram and Win 10/32 Pro.

Well, I've seen the app updated once already - the first time I ran it just
said "The computer says NO" but the next time it indicated why it had failed.
Early days yet?

--

Phil, London

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Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 10:02 UTC

In article <ijscfrFir99U1@mid.individual.net>, email@here.invalid says...
>
> On 27/06/2021 13:46, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > In article <ijr6h6Fbo41U1@mid.individual.net>, email@here.invalid says...
>
> >> I used a purchase of a Windows 10 tablet as an excuse to align myself
> >>
> >> That has been a failure. I hardly use it, much preferring an iPad.
> >
> > Why's the iPad better for you?
> >
>
> The applications that Windows 10 made available for touch use (universal
> apps) were to me lacking compared to their desktop equivalents, and I
> found myself running the desktop app versions (adobe reader, office
> 2013) on it, with effectively one hand tied behind my back, not having a
> mouse to click. Of course, I could add one and a keyboard and turn it
> into a laptop ... erm, got many of those ...
>
> On the iPad, my reading was better supported straight off, and touch
> gestures are just standard Apple, just like my phone. I don't miss a
> mouse or a keyboard, as those apps only have to support the the Apple
> touch UI. Initially thinking that it wouldn't do for typing, I bought a
> keyboard for the iPad. Hardly use that. (Bloomin' Amazon overclicking....).
>
> If Microsoft could have bravely launched a true tablet OS, without
> muddying it up with desktop mode, that could have encouraged developers
> to take the interface seriously, moving on from Windows Mobile perhaps.
>
> I was a Windows Mobile 6.5 stylus using user who one day bought an iPod
> Touch and an iPhone was naturally next.
>
> Currently I'm WFH using MS Teams, and idly wondering if I can use this
> tablet as a remote whiteboard to my Teams session open on works provided
> laptop. But too much other things to worry about at the moment.

Thanks - that's useful to understand. I've never done more than fumble with
any i-thing for more than a minute or so, and I have enough trouble keeping up
with the Windows world to want to take on a new context!

--

Phil, London

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: wib...@btinternet.com (David)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: 28 Jun 2021 10:28:05 GMT
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 by: David - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 10:28 UTC

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:41:53 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote:

> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing
> tweaks - until I saw the bill.
>
> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice
> (expensive) XPS laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my
> Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't a supported processor.
>
> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?

Posted a seperate thread, but:
"Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6600U CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.80 GHz"
is allegedly not supported.
From the number I assume it is 6th generation so 3 generations on from
your 3770.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Dell Latitude 7280 with Full HD and Thunderbolt (woo hoo)

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: thiswill...@you.com (Philip Herlihy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 15:54:02 +0100
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 14:54 UTC

In article <ijtmhlFq7v8U2@mid.individual.net>, wibble@btinternet.com says...
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 20:41:53 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>
> > I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing
> > tweaks - until I saw the bill.
> >
> > Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice
> > (expensive) XPS laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my
> > Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't a supported processor.
> >
> > Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
> > hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
> > insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
>
> Posted a seperate thread, but:
> "Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6600U CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.80 GHz"
> is allegedly not supported.
> From the number I assume it is 6th generation so 3 generations on from
> your 3770.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Dave R

Ouch!

--

Phil, London

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

<sbcpqc$qe7$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 16:28:13 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andrew - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 15:28 UTC

On 28/06/2021 11:00, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <sba6ij$1805$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com
> says...
>>
>> On 25/06/2021 20:43, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>> In article <MPG.3b4041d810f1439898994c@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> thiswillbounceback@you.com says...
>>>>
>>>> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like pleasing tweaks
>>>> - until I saw the bill.
>>>>
>>>> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded. A really nice (expensive) XPS
>>>> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the i7-3770 isn't
>>>> a supported processor.
>>>>
>>>> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how much
>>>> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
>>>> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+ years?
>>>
>>> You can check compatibility using the "PC Health Check" utility on this page:
>>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11#pchealthcheck
>>>
>>> Direct download:
>>> https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp
>>>
>>
>> I can't even run the healthcheck download. Strange error about
>> contacting my vendor. Its an AMD Phenom X6 1055 running at
>> 2.80 ghz with 4G ram and Win 10/32 Pro.
>
> Well, I've seen the app updated once already - the first time I ran it just
> said "The computer says NO" but the next time it indicated why it had failed.
> Early days yet?
>

Just tried it again, and get the same message from the installer -

"This installation package is not supported by this processor type -
contact your product vendor".

WTF ??

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 16:42:37 +0100
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 by: Andrew - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 15:42 UTC

On 28/06/2021 16:28, Andrew wrote:
> On 28/06/2021 11:00, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>> In article <sba6ij$1805$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> On 25/06/2021 20:43, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>>> In article <MPG.3b4041d810f1439898994c@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> thiswillbounceback@you.com says...
>>>>>
>>>>> I watched the presentation, and thought much of it looked like
>>>>> pleasing tweaks
>>>>> - until I saw the bill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither of my workaday machines can be upgraded.  A really nice
>>>>> (expensive) XPS
>>>>> laptop is too old to have "secure boot", and on my Vostro 470 the
>>>>> i7-3770 isn't
>>>>> a supported processor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, given how many W7 machines are still out there, and given how
>>>>> much
>>>>> hardware there must be that won't be upgradeable to W11, how many
>>>>> insecure/hackable machines are there going to be out there in 5+
>>>>> years?
>>>>
>>>> You can check compatibility using the "PC Health Check" utility on
>>>> this page:
>>>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11#pchealthcheck
>>>>
>>>> Direct download:
>>>> https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can't even run the healthcheck download. Strange error about
>>> contacting my vendor. Its an AMD Phenom X6 1055 running at
>>> 2.80 ghz with 4G ram and Win 10/32 Pro.
>>
>> Well, I've seen the app updated once already - the first time I ran it
>> just
>> said "The computer says NO" but the next time it indicated why it had
>> failed.
>> Early days yet?
>>
>
> Just tried it again, and get the same message from the installer -
>
> "This installation package is not supported by this processor type -
> contact your product vendor".
>
> WTF ??

Just noticed this on the Microsoft Win 11 FAQ's -

"I have a 32-bit Device. Can I upgrade to Windows 11?

Unfortunately, no. As per MS, since launching Windows 10 six years ago,
a lot of hardware innovation has happened in the PC space. For Windows
to move forward and take better advantage of the latest innovations, we
need to update the baseline system requirements for modern PCs."

So that's it, I will need a new PC. That means the issue of Firewire
support will be a problem. I still have a useful slide scanner that has
a Firewire interface and I am reluctant to pension it off.

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 17:16:17 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 16:16 UTC

Philip Herlihy wrote:

> Direct download:
> https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp

The checker says my CPU doesn't meet the requirements, Kaby Lake i5-7200U

<https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95451/intel-core-i7-7500u-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-50-ghz.html>

seems that 7th Gen and older won't be supported by Win11, so a CPU
launched 5 years ago in a machine launched 3 years ago is obsolete as
far as microsoft are concerned? Going to be a lot of pissed of people,
it runs Win10 just fine.

What 8th gen CPU features are they insisting on?

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: 28 Jun 2021 21:50:20 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 20:50 UTC

Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
> On 28/06/2021 16:28, Andrew wrote:
> Just noticed this on the Microsoft Win 11 FAQ's -
>
> "I have a 32-bit Device. Can I upgrade to Windows 11?
>
> Unfortunately, no. As per MS, since launching Windows 10 six years ago,
> a lot of hardware innovation has happened in the PC space. For Windows
> to move forward and take better advantage of the latest innovations, we
> need to update the baseline system requirements for modern PCs."

The Phenom II is a 64 bit CPU, so there's no problems on that front.
I don't know if you can run the checker from 32-bit Windows though, maybe it
won't run unless you're already on 64 bit Win 10.

Does your motherboard have a TPM slot? You would likely need a hardware TPM
module as your CPU doesn't have a software TPM. (If there's no slot, maybe
someone will start making TPM PCIe cards - if that's possible)

I suspect the UEFI requirement may be an issue, although I would wait and
see if anyone comes up with a solution for this (maybe someone can do a
second stage bootloader or something).

> So that's it, I will need a new PC. That means the issue of Firewire
> support will be a problem. I still have a useful slide scanner that has
> a Firewire interface and I am reluctant to pension it off.

PCIe Firewire cards exist. Apple have a Thunderbolt Firewire dongle
suitable for laptops too (may need some adapters).

Theo

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: 28 Jun 2021 22:00:05 +0100 (BST)
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 by: Theo - Mon, 28 Jun 2021 21:00 UTC

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> The checker says my CPU doesn't meet the requirements, Kaby Lake i5-7200U
>
> <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95451/intel-core-i7-7500u-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-50-ghz.html>
>
> seems that 7th Gen and older won't be supported by Win11, so a CPU
> launched 5 years ago in a machine launched 3 years ago is obsolete as
> far as microsoft are concerned? Going to be a lot of pissed of people,
> it runs Win10 just fine.

I think the key word is 'supported'.

If I look at the list for the 20H2 version of W10:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-20h2-supported-intel-processors

there's nothing much older than Broadwell (5th generation, ix-5xxx) on
there. But we know W10 will run on much older PCs.

So I suspect 'supported' means that MS won't allow an OEM to sell PCs with
older processors, or maybe they won't answer your tech support questions or
give you a support contract. But home users get by without those things all
the time, and everything is fine.

Wait and see.

Also make sure your BIOS has UEFI boot turned on and has firmware TPM (AMD
fTPM, Intel iPPT) enabled, or buy a TPM module (when they are available
again).

Theo

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
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 by: Andy Burns - Tue, 29 Jun 2021 06:40 UTC

Theo wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> The checker says my CPU doesn't meet the requirements, Kaby Lake i5-7200U
>>
>> <https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/95451/intel-core-i7-7500u-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-50-ghz.html>
>>
>> seems that 7th Gen and older won't be supported by Win11, so a CPU
>> launched 5 years ago in a machine launched 3 years ago is obsolete as
>> far as microsoft are concerned? Going to be a lot of pissed of people,
>> it runs Win10 just fine.
>
> I think the key word is 'supported'.
>
> If I look at the list for the 20H2 version of W10:
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-20h2-supported-intel-processors
>
> there's nothing much older than Broadwell (5th generation, ix-5xxx) on
> there. But we know W10 will run on much older PCs.

yes, I suppose I'll regard win11 as win10.1

> So I suspect 'supported' means that MS won't allow an OEM to sell PCs with
> older processors, or maybe they won't answer your tech support questions or
> give you a support contract. But home users get by without those things all
> the time, and everything is fine.
>
> Wait and see.

> Also make sure your BIOS has UEFI boot turned on and has firmware TPM (AMD
> fTPM, Intel iPPT) enabled, or

It's a laptop, meets all the other requirements (memory, cpu
speed/cores, UEFI, secure boot, TPM2.0, HD webcam, etc)

> buy a TPM module (when they are available
> again).

the only device *not* soldered to the motherboard is the SSD, even the
RAM is fixed.

Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Neither of my "best" machines will take W11
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:42:12 +0100
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 by: Andrew - Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:42 UTC

On 28/06/2021 21:50, Theo wrote:
> Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 28/06/2021 16:28, Andrew wrote:
>> Just noticed this on the Microsoft Win 11 FAQ's -
>>
>> "I have a 32-bit Device. Can I upgrade to Windows 11?
>>
>> Unfortunately, no. As per MS, since launching Windows 10 six years ago,
>> a lot of hardware innovation has happened in the PC space. For Windows
>> to move forward and take better advantage of the latest innovations, we
>> need to update the baseline system requirements for modern PCs."
>
> The Phenom II is a 64 bit CPU, so there's no problems on that front.
> I don't know if you can run the checker from 32-bit Windows though, maybe it
> won't run unless you're already on 64 bit Win 10.
>

It was a Novatech M/B upgrade bundle and I bought Win7 Pro OEM with the
same bundle but only installed a 32 bit image because I needed to keep
using an oldr version of Adobe Lightroom and Nikon Scanner code.

> Does your motherboard have a TPM slot? You would likely need a hardware TPM
> module as your CPU doesn't have a software TPM. (If there's no slot, maybe
> someone will start making TPM PCIe cards - if that's possible)
>
Gigabyte 880-GM-UDH2 circa 2011, so I don't think so.

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