Hi,

A "high end" Sony CD player arrived in my workshop late yesterday.
Not something I cater for so was a bit reluctant to accept the job.

It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.

Repair:

The XA5 refused to play a disk, or even spin one.
The drawer would close and then open again in a few seconds.
Peeking inside showed it was infested with tiny, multi-pin connectors - a constant source of faults with older gear like this.
The PSU was conventional with two R core transformers and a bunch of linear regulators on a PCB. This was where the trouble turned out to be.
The +12V rail was intermittent and subject to "percussive maintenance" .
The fault persisted after cleaning all the multi-pins so next I go after cracked solder joints - though none were visible under magnification.
Bugger, so I reheat and add a bit of 60/40 ( Savbit) to all the usual suspects - large electros, reg IC pins etc. Voila.
The absurdly overweight beast now works as advertised.

Why is it so heavy?

Sony deliberately added as much thick steel sheet to the beast as possible.
Anodised aluminium is used for sides and front panel - while right underneath is about 20 pounds of steel.
Were they trying to make it bullet proof ?

What next?

Before it goes back to its owner, I can do a few tests.
I have the " Denon Audio Technical Test CD" .
Does fixed frequency sine and square waves I can view on a scope or feed into my -100dB notch filter to resolve the THD.

But as the data is not "dithered" the THD residual is higher than occurs with natural signals. The CDP-101 tests at 0.002% at 1001Hz and full level.
However Arny Krueger prepared a dithered tests disk and found the 101 had
no identifiable harmonics in the output spectrum - only random noise.

Maybe I should just play few favorite tracks ?
Like Blue Bayou by Linda Ronstadt ?
But that recording is all analogue.
Or "An Die Music" by Elly Ameling ?
Just piano and soprano voice.
Best all digital recording I have ever heard.

....... Phil

On 7/02/2022 7:07 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A "high end" Sony CD player arrived in my workshop late yesterday.
> Not something I cater for so was a bit reluctant to accept the job.

**I thought you had retired.

>
> It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
> Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
> What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
> My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
> While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.

**The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
products. BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
overweight players back then. I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!

Trevor Wilson wrote:
=================
>
> >
> > It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
> > Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
> > What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
> > My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
> > While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.
>
> **The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
> products.

** No they are not !
The excessive use of multi-pins and BAD soldering indicate beans counters did the design.
The marketing wankers added the fake weight.

>BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
> overweight players back then.

** Why ??

> I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
> very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!

** Never mind the quality - feel the WEIGHT !!
Wot a joke.

...... Phil

On 8/02/2022 9:50 am, Phil Allison wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
> =================
>>
>>>
>>> It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
>>> Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
>>> What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
>>> My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
>>> While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.
>>
>> **The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
>> products.
>
> ** No they are not !
> The excessive use of multi-pins and BAD soldering indicate beans counters did the design.
> The marketing wankers added the fake weight.

**All true, but they did sound nice. I very doub the bean counters got
much a look-in with the XA7. It is a needlessly complicated design.
Ditto, the use of 'R' core power transformers. They ain't cheap.

>
>
>> BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
>> overweight players back then.
>
> ** Why ??

**You should ask them. I guess the extra mass helps to keep them in
place if the room is subject to high winds.

>
>> I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
>> very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!
>
> ** Never mind the quality - feel the WEIGHT !!
> Wot a joke.

**Yep. It was a very average sounding CD player. Not a patch on the
Marantz CD80 I owned at that time. In fact, I haven't heard a CD player
before or since that was better than the CD80.

Trevor Wilson wrote:
=================
>>
>> >>
> >> **The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
> >> products.
> >
> > ** No they are not !
> > The excessive use of multi-pins and BAD soldering indicate beans counters did the design.
> > The marketing wankers added the fake weight.
>
> **All true, but they did sound nice.

** Oh dear......

> I very doub the bean counters got
> much a look-in with the XA7. It is a needlessly complicated design.
> Ditto, the use of 'R' core power transformers. They ain't cheap.

** Cheap enough to use in dot matrix printers.

>
> >> BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
> >> overweight players back then.
> >
> > ** Why ??
>
> **You should ask them.

** No, I'm if you have any clue?

> guess the extra mass helps to keep them in
> place if the room is subject to high winds.

** Question answered...

> >
> >> I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
> >> very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!
> >
> > ** Never mind the quality - feel the WEIGHT !!
> > Wot a joke.
>
> **Yep. It was a very average sounding CD player.

** Yawnnnnnnn.........

TW is a grade A audiophool plus a life long " high end" dealer.

..... Phil

On 8/02/2022 10:11 am, Phil Allison wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
> =================
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> **The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
>>>> products.
>>>
>>> ** No they are not !
>>> The excessive use of multi-pins and BAD soldering indicate beans counters did the design.
>>> The marketing wankers added the fake weight.
>>
>> **All true, but they did sound nice.
>
> ** Oh dear......
>
>> I very doub the bean counters got
>> much a look-in with the XA7. It is a needlessly complicated design.
>> Ditto, the use of 'R' core power transformers. They ain't cheap.
>
> ** Cheap enough to use in dot matrix printers.
>
> >
>>>> BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
>>>> overweight players back then.
>>>
>>> ** Why ??
>>
>> **You should ask them.
>
> ** No, I'm if you have any clue?
>
>> guess the extra mass helps to keep them in
>> place if the room is subject to high winds.
>
> ** Question answered...
>
>>>
>>>> I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
>>>> very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!
>>>
>>> ** Never mind the quality - feel the WEIGHT !!
>>> Wot a joke.
>>
>> **Yep. It was a very average sounding CD player.
>
> ** Yawnnnnnnn.........
>
> TW is a grade A audiophool plus a life long " high end" dealer.
>

**No one, least of all me, makes any money out of suggesting the use of
a 30+ year old CD player. FWIW: I expect to receive a replacement for
mine in a week or two. I hope it will remain in my main system for a
long time. Ken Ishiwata (I enjoyed a meal with Ken 30 years ago)
designed, good quality transport, excellent DACs, high quality output
ICs (5534), proper relay muting, etc.

Trevor Wilson wrote:
=================
>
>>>
> >>>> **The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
> >>>> products.
> >>>
> >>> ** No they are not !
> >>> The excessive use of multi-pins and BAD soldering indicate beans counters did the design.
> >>> The marketing wankers added the fake weight.
> >>
> >> **All true, but they did sound nice.
> >
> > ** Oh dear......
> >
> >> I very doub the bean counters got
> >> much a look-in with the XA7. It is a needlessly complicated design.
> >> Ditto, the use of 'R' core power transformers. They ain't cheap.
> >
> > ** Cheap enough to use in dot matrix printers.
> >
> > >
> >>>> BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
> >>>> overweight players back then.
> >>>
> >>> ** Why ??
> >>
> >> **You should ask them.
> >
> > ** No, I'm if you have any clue?
> >
> >> guess the extra mass helps to keep them in
> >> place if the room is subject to high winds.
> >
> > ** Question answered...
> >
> >>>
> >>>> I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
> >>>> very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!
> >>>
> >>> ** Never mind the quality - feel the WEIGHT !!
> >>> Wot a joke.
> >>
> >> **Yep. It was a very average sounding CD player.
> >
> > ** Yawnnnnnnn.........
> >
> > TW is a grade A audiophool plus a life long " high end" dealer.
> >
> **No one, least of all me, makes any money out of suggesting the use of
> a 30+ year old CD player.
>

** ROTFLMAO - what a fuckwit "straw man" fallacy.

The point is TW traded in audiophool nonsense and lies for a LIVING.

Lepoards ( and charlatans ) do not change their spots
===========================================

..... Phil

Yes a lot of them did the extra weight before they used large enough ram
buffers to allow the errors when jolted to be overwritten without a break.
My CD 100 really needs to be slightly tilted forward and on a very sturdy
shelf to not become an earthquake monitor for large trucks driving by!

Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:j6del4FkdtjU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 7/02/2022 7:07 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> A "high end" Sony CD player arrived in my workshop late yesterday.
>> Not something I cater for so was a bit reluctant to accept the job.
>
> **I thought you had retired.
>
>>
>> It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
>> Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
>> What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
>> My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
>> While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.
>
> **The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
> products. BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
> overweight players back then. I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
> very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!
>
>

Back in the very early days of CD there was an Akai that played the cds
vertically. That sounded pretty good, but it took up a lot of vertical
space, and I never did see the point of playing the disc vertically. I bet
the actual guts of the laser and tracking were bog standard and it was the
electronics that made it sound nice.
Brian

--

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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:j6dmh3FlrdoU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 8/02/2022 9:50 am, Phil Allison wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> =================
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
>>>> Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
>>>> What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
>>>> My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
>>>> While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.
>>>
>>> **The XA5 and XA7 were very nicely engineered, excellent sounding
>>> products.
>>
>> ** No they are not !
>> The excessive use of multi-pins and BAD soldering indicate beans counters
>> did the design.
>> The marketing wankers added the fake weight.
>
> **All true, but they did sound nice. I very doub the bean counters got
> much a look-in with the XA7. It is a needlessly complicated design. Ditto,
> the use of 'R' core power transformers. They ain't cheap.
>
>>
>>
>>> BTW: Most of the major Japanese manufacturers built needlessly
>>> overweight players back then.
>>
>> ** Why ??
>
> **You should ask them. I guess the extra mass helps to keep them in place
> if the room is subject to high winds.
>
>>
>>> I had an Onkyo in a few years back. It was
>>> very heavy. The base plate was cast iron!
>>
>> ** Never mind the quality - feel the WEIGHT !!
>> Wot a joke.
>
> **Yep. It was a very average sounding CD player. Not a patch on the
> Marantz CD80 I owned at that time. In fact, I haven't heard a CD player
> before or since that was better than the CD80.

Brian Gaff (PITA) wrote:
=====================
>
> Yes a lot of them did the extra weight before they used large enough ram
> buffers to allow the errors when jolted to be overwritten without a break.

** Utter nonsense.

Japan is unusually subject to regular tremors.
Why the CDP-101 has switch to help with for that anomaly.

> My CD 100 really needs to be slightly tilted forward and on a very sturdy
> shelf to not become an earthquake monitor for large trucks driving by!

** ROTFL !!

Wot bullshit.

Brian Gaff (PITA ) wrote:
----------------------------------------
>
> Back in the very early days of CD there was an Akai that played the cds
> vertically. That sounded pretty good, but it took up a lot of vertical
> space, and I never did see the point of playing the disc vertically.

** LOL - but YOU are fucking BLIND !!!

> I bet > the actual guts of the laser and tracking were bog standard and it was the
> electronics that made it sound nice.

** FYI you moron:

Tape decks, cassette decks and turntables ALL have something *rotating* to fascinate the *functioning eyeballs* of gullible listeners.
A few half wit CD player makers thought taking that away was like like stealing candy from babies.
So they decided not to.

Didn't last long ....

........ Phil

In article <stt8gd$kgs$1@dont-email.me>,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Yes a lot of them did the extra weight before they used large enough ram
> buffers to allow the errors when jolted to be overwritten without a
> break. My CD 100 really needs to be slightly tilted forward and on a
> very sturdy shelf to not become an earthquake monitor for large trucks
> driving by!

Makes you wonder how the pretty ancient CD jukebox in my car works at all.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I think the first use of ram buffers was in the car versions, from what I
recall.
Most of the early ones did jump though, those which did not used the same
mass system as described here. I also think that huge gains were made when
they reduced the mass in the laser scanner, As you may recall the
Philips/Marantz ones used a pivoted counterbalanced arm, and this did not
perform well when the unit got jolted. The very small plastic ones you then
saw were better in this respect, and crawled along a threaded rod or had a
toothed belt system.
The only issue was they tended to occasionally get stuck due to crap
getting on the drying out lubrication. I had a Toshiba like that, it was
fine if you took it apart, cleaned it and used very light oil on the
mechanism.
Brian

--

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:59b7984c2edave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <stt8gd$kgs$1@dont-email.me>,
> Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Yes a lot of them did the extra weight before they used large enough ram
>> buffers to allow the errors when jolted to be overwritten without a
>> break. My CD 100 really needs to be slightly tilted forward and on a
>> very sturdy shelf to not become an earthquake monitor for large trucks
>> driving by!
>
> Makes you wonder how the pretty ancient CD jukebox in my car works at all.
>
> --
> *Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <44d576ba-6649-4ada-b56a-f392f48c93c8n@googlegroups.com>,
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> scribeth thus
>Hi,
>
>A "high end" Sony CD player arrived in my workshop late yesterday.
>Not something I cater for so was a bit reluctant to accept the job.
>
>It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
>Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
>What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
>My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
>While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.
>
>Repair:
>
>The XA5 refused to play a disk, or even spin one.
>The drawer would close and then open again in a few seconds.
>Peeking inside showed it was infested with tiny, multi-pin connectors - a
>constant source of faults with older gear like this.
>The PSU was conventional with two R core transformers and a bunch of linear
>regulators on a PCB. This was where the trouble turned out to be.
>The +12V rail was intermittent and subject to "percussive maintenance" .
>The fault persisted after cleaning all the multi-pins so next I go after cracked
>solder joints - though none were visible under magnification.
>Bugger, so I reheat and add a bit of 60/40 ( Savbit) to all the usual suspects
>- large electros, reg IC pins etc. Voila.
>The absurdly overweight beast now works as advertised.
>
>Why is it so heavy?
>
>Sony deliberately added as much thick steel sheet to the beast as possible.
>Anodised aluminium is used for sides and front panel - while right underneath
>is about 20 pounds of steel.
>Were they trying to make it bullet proof ?
>
>What next?
>
>Before it goes back to its owner, I can do a few tests.
>I have the " Denon Audio Technical Test CD" .
>Does fixed frequency sine and square waves I can view on a scope or feed into my
>-100dB notch filter to resolve the THD.
>
>But as the data is not "dithered" the THD residual is higher than occurs with
>natural signals. The CDP-101 tests at 0.002% at 1001Hz and full level.
>However Arny Krueger prepared a dithered tests disk and found the 101 had
>no identifiable harmonics in the output spectrum - only random noise.
>
>Maybe I should just play few favorite tracks ?
>Like Blue Bayou by Linda Ronstadt ?
>But that recording is all analogue.
>Or "An Die Music" by Elly Ameling ?
>Just piano and soprano voice.
>Best all digital recording I have ever heard.
>
>
>...... Phil
>
>
>

I've still got a vintage SONY CDP-557ESD and very much like Phil has
described the thing is built like a bloody tank its a work of art
inside dual this that and the other. Its still original only having a
modified Xtal based clock added in. Despite its age neigh on 40 years
old it still performs fine and the CD transport is as silky smooth as it
was when built!...

http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/REFERENCES/sony%20cdp-
557ESD/SONY%20CDP-557ESD.html

https://www.hifinews.com/content/sony-cdp-557esd-cd-player-lab-report
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Is not this the one many radio stations used to use?
I have a middle period Marantz, its main issue at the moment is that the
drawer comes out an inch then retracts sometimes and increasingly it gives
up too fast when trying to scan a discs innermost tracks to figure out what
is on it giving a lovely bright error sign apparently, If you persevere, it
can play fine.
CDrs are the worst offenders, one supposes due to the less than perfect
burning. Oddly it plays cdrws almost flawlessly, which seems counter
intuitive to me.
The best way to play cdrs is on a dvd player!

Brian

--

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"tony sayer" <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SDYHOpIfnPBiFwo5@bancom.co.uk...
> In article <44d576ba-6649-4ada-b56a-f392f48c93c8n@googlegroups.com>,
> Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> scribeth thus
>>Hi,
>>
>>A "high end" Sony CD player arrived in my workshop late yesterday.
>>Not something I cater for so was a bit reluctant to accept the job.
>>
>>It's a CDP- XA5ES which feels *expensive* soon as you pick it up.
>>Cos the bugger weighs 13.5 kg or just under 30 pounds.
>>What could possibly make it weigh so darn much ?
>>My own and now venerable CDP-101 weighs 7.5 kgs.
>>While my Sony DVD player is a puny 1.75 kg weakling.
>>
>>Repair:
>>
>>The XA5 refused to play a disk, or even spin one.
>>The drawer would close and then open again in a few seconds.
>>Peeking inside showed it was infested with tiny, multi-pin connectors - a
>>constant source of faults with older gear like this.
>>The PSU was conventional with two R core transformers and a bunch of
>>linear
>>regulators on a PCB. This was where the trouble turned out to be.
>>The +12V rail was intermittent and subject to "percussive maintenance" .
>>The fault persisted after cleaning all the multi-pins so next I go after
>>cracked
>>solder joints - though none were visible under magnification.
>>Bugger, so I reheat and add a bit of 60/40 ( Savbit) to all the usual
>>suspects
>>- large electros, reg IC pins etc. Voila.
>>The absurdly overweight beast now works as advertised.
>>
>>Why is it so heavy?
>>
>>Sony deliberately added as much thick steel sheet to the beast as
>>possible.
>>Anodised aluminium is used for sides and front panel - while right
>>underneath
>>is about 20 pounds of steel.
>>Were they trying to make it bullet proof ?
>>
>>What next?
>>
>>Before it goes back to its owner, I can do a few tests.
>>I have the " Denon Audio Technical Test CD" .
>>Does fixed frequency sine and square waves I can view on a scope or feed
>>into my
>>-100dB notch filter to resolve the THD.
>>
>>But as the data is not "dithered" the THD residual is higher than occurs
>>with
>>natural signals. The CDP-101 tests at 0.002% at 1001Hz and full level.
>>However Arny Krueger prepared a dithered tests disk and found the 101 had
>>no identifiable harmonics in the output spectrum - only random noise.
>>
>>Maybe I should just play few favorite tracks ?
>>Like Blue Bayou by Linda Ronstadt ?
>>But that recording is all analogue.
>>Or "An Die Music" by Elly Ameling ?
>>Just piano and soprano voice.
>>Best all digital recording I have ever heard.
>>
>>
>>...... Phil
>>
>>
>>
>
> I've still got a vintage SONY CDP-557ESD and very much like Phil has
> described the thing is built like a bloody tank its a work of art
> inside dual this that and the other. Its still original only having a
> modified Xtal based clock added in. Despite its age neigh on 40 years
> old it still performs fine and the CD transport is as silky smooth as it
> was when built!...
>
> http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/REFERENCES/sony%20cdp-
> 557ESD/SONY%20CDP-557ESD.html
>
>
> https://www.hifinews.com/content/sony-cdp-557esd-cd-player-lab-report
> --
> Tony Sayer
>
>
> Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.
>
> Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
>
>