Over the last weekend, I attemped to replace an Optane 16Gb SSD with a
256Gb M.2 SSD, as a way to speed up my laptop.

Idea was the Optane was an hybrid system, Optane plus 1Tb HDD, which
would become an SSD containing all the software and OS, plus the HDD empty.

I went through through the process of shutting the Optane down, swapping
Optane stick for M.2, cloning from HDD to M.2, removed the HDD booted up
and all worked great, at first. I then reinstalled the HDD, wiped it,
rebooted, and it continued to work fine, until it began blue screening,
more and more, eventually it would not boot at all. More investigation
revealled the M.2 had disappeared completely.

I have since, reinstalled my Optane, software and OS, and all runs
absolutely fine again.

The 256 M.2, was a used item, and the seller had supplied it in an
ordinary plastic bag - not static protected. Does this sound like static
damage please?

Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
> The 256 M.2, was a used item, and the seller had supplied it in an
> ordinary plastic bag - not static protected. Does this sound like static
> damage please?

Hard to say, but the fact that it initially worked and then stopped working
might point that way. Alternatively something in your system killed it -
but that seems less likely, especially since the Optane works fine.

By your account it stopped working out of the blue, and rather than when you
were messing about inside the PC? In the latter case it could have suffered
damage in some way (eg dropping a screw on it while powered which shorted
something, or similar).

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
> > The 256 M.2, was a used item, and the seller had supplied it in an
> > ordinary plastic bag - not static protected. Does this sound like static
> > damage please?
>
> Hard to say, but the fact that it initially worked and then stopped working
> might point that way. Alternatively something in your system killed it -
> but that seems less likely, especially since the Optane works fine.
>
> By your account it stopped working out of the blue, and rather than when you
> were messing about inside the PC? In the latter case it could have suffered
> damage in some way (eg dropping a screw on it while powered which shorted
> something, or similar).

Or, I suppose, the thing was knackered (eg flash at the end of its wear
limit) and running it for a bit pushed it over the edge.

Theo

On 15/11/2023 10:03, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> Over the last weekend, I attemped to replace an Optane 16Gb SSD with a
> 256Gb M.2 SSD, as a way to speed up my laptop.
>
> Idea was the Optane was an hybrid system, Optane plus 1Tb HDD, which
> would become an SSD containing all the software and OS, plus the HDD empty.
>
> I went through through the process of shutting the Optane down, swapping
> Optane stick for M.2, cloning from HDD to M.2, removed the HDD booted up
> and all worked great, at first. I then reinstalled the HDD, wiped it,
> rebooted, and it continued to work fine, until it began blue screening,
> more and more, eventually it would not boot at all. More investigation
> revealled the M.2 had disappeared completely.
>
> I have since, reinstalled my Optane, software and OS, and all runs
> absolutely fine again.
>
> The 256 M.2, was a used item, and the seller had supplied it in an
> ordinary plastic bag - not static protected. Does this sound like static
> damage please?

Without very high end lab facilities, identifying if something was
static damaged is almost impossible. Also contrary to popular belief
most static damage does not result in an immediate fatality - but will
usually manifest in a higher failure rate possibly years after the event.

So yes it *could* have been damaged, but the most likely explanation is
that the drive simply failed.

What brand/model of drive was it?

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> The 256 M.2, was a used item

My first thought would be has the SSD suffered over-heating or used-up
its write cycles, rather than static damage? Can you read SMART data
from it?

On 15/11/2023 10:37, Theo wrote:
> By your account it stopped working out of the blue, and rather than when you
> were messing about inside the PC? In the latter case it could have suffered
> damage in some way (eg dropping a screw on it while powered which shorted
> something, or similar).

Yep, I was feeling quite confident it was working fine, so I had boxed
it all back up, then the bluescreens then just became more and more
prominent as time progressed. There were no dropped screws, nothing to
suggest I had got anything wrong, my only concern was it being supplied
in an ordinary plastic bag.

The seller has agreed a full refund, but just to double check, I have
ordered a USB to M.2 adaptor, to see if that can access it.

On 15/11/2023 10:39, Theo wrote:
> Or, I suppose, the thing was knackered (eg flash at the end of its wear
> limit) and running it for a bit pushed it over the edge.

The seller supplied it with a test sheet, which supposedly confirmed it
was perfect. He was selling quite a number of them, so he might have
tested one, and have simply included the good test data from that good one.

On 15/11/2023 10:43, John Rumm wrote:
> What brand/model of drive was it?

Samsung 256Gb

On 15/11/2023 10:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> My first thought would be has the SSD suffered over-heating or used-up
> its write cycles, rather than static damage? Can you read SMART data
> from it?

I could not access it at all.

On 15/11/2023 10:59, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 10:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>> My first thought would be has the SSD suffered over-heating or used-up
>> its write cycles, rather than static damage? Can you read SMART data
>> from it?
>
> I could not access it at all.

I had similar with an SSD. It just took ages to boot and SMART confirmed
that something was badly wrong. But not with the NVRAM - with the access
electronics. Replaced under warranty.

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 15/11/2023 10:43, John Rumm wrote:

>
> Without very high end lab facilities, identifying if something was
> static damaged is almost impossible.  Also contrary to popular belief
> most static damage does not result in an immediate fatality - but will
> usually manifest in a higher failure rate possibly years after the event.

I once went on a half day course on handling electronic components and
that is one thing they stressed. Static damage can result in long term
unreliability and not necessarily instant failure. One other point that
was highlighted was components already soldered to a board can also
suffer static damage if mishandled.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 15/11/2023 10:03, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> Over the last weekend, I attemped to replace an Optane 16Gb SSD with a
> 256Gb M.2 SSD, as a way to speed up my laptop.
>
> Idea was the Optane was an hybrid system, Optane plus 1Tb HDD, which
> would become an SSD containing all the software and OS, plus the HDD empty.
>
> I went through through the process of shutting the Optane down, swapping
> Optane stick for M.2, cloning from HDD to M.2, removed the HDD booted up
> and all worked great, at first. I then reinstalled the HDD, wiped it,
> rebooted, and it continued to work fine, until it began blue screening,
> more and more, eventually it would not boot at all. More investigation
> revealled the M.2 had disappeared completely.
>
> I have since, reinstalled my Optane, software and OS, and all runs
> absolutely fine again.
>
> The 256 M.2, was a used item, and the seller had supplied it in an
> ordinary plastic bag - not static protected. Does this sound like static
> damage please?

The fact that it blue screened suggests that most of the drive was still
working.

The drive may still be working and I would investigate using Disk
Management to see if the drive exists even if it doesn't as a 'letter'.

Most drives have a life used/expectancy that can be accessed through
their SMART monitoring system

On 15/11/2023 12:40, Fredxx wrote:
> The fact that it blue screened suggests that most of the drive was still
> working.
>
> The drive may still be working and I would investigate using Disk
> Management to see if the drive exists even if it doesn't as a 'letter'.
>
> Most drives have a life used/expectancy that can be accessed through
> their SMART monitoring system

Once it became unbootable, none of the software (lots) could see it,
including DM. As soon as the USB M.2 adaptor arrives, I will/might be
able to delve a bit deeper into the failure - I'm also keen not to
return it, with lots of my data on.

On 15/11/2023 13:47, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 12:40, Fredxx wrote:
>> The fact that it blue screened suggests that most of the drive was
>> still working.

Did it only blue screen the once and effectively dead after? In which
case I might well be wrong and this was a catastrophic failure
immediately before the blue screen.
>> The drive may still be working and I would investigate using Disk
>> Management to see if the drive exists even if it doesn't as a 'letter'.
>>
>> Most drives have a life used/expectancy that can be accessed through
>> their SMART monitoring system
>
> Once it became unbootable, none of the software (lots) could see it,
> including DM.

If Disk Management can't see the drive I would wager it is well and
truly dead.

> As soon as the USB M.2 adaptor arrives, I will/might be
> able to delve a bit deeper into the failure - I'm also keen not to
> return it, with lots of my data on.

I understand the dilemma.

On 15/11/2023 13:47, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 12:40, Fredxx wrote:
>> The fact that it blue screened suggests that most of the drive was
>> still working.
>>
>> The drive may still be working and I would investigate using Disk
>> Management to see if the drive exists even if it doesn't as a 'letter'.
>>
>> Most drives have a life used/expectancy that can be accessed through
>> their SMART monitoring system
>
> Once it became unbootable, none of the software (lots) could see it,
> including DM. As soon as the USB M.2 adaptor arrives, I will/might be
> able to delve a bit deeper into the failure - I'm also keen not to
> return it, with lots of my data on.

I am afraid that data is gone.
Unless you are prepared to pay hundreds to someone who can repair the
SSD. People can and do replace chips on mobile phone boards with
remarkable skill.

https://www.youtube.com/@ststele

But check out the investment in hot air guns, specialised soldering
irons, infra red scanners, and microscopes

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

On 15/11/2023 14:19, Fredxx wrote:
> Did it only blue screen the once and effectively dead after? In which
> case I might well be wrong and this was a catastrophic failure
> immediately before the blue screen.

No, it ran perfectly for a couple of hours, then began blue screening,
which it did around a dozen times, with the interval between gradually
reducing, but it rebooted fine, except for the final time, when it then
refused to boot, said there was no OS.

On 15/11/2023 14:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 13:47, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>> On 15/11/2023 12:40, Fredxx wrote:
>>> The fact that it blue screened suggests that most of the drive was
>>> still working.
>>>
>>> The drive may still be working and I would investigate using Disk
>>> Management to see if the drive exists even if it doesn't as a 'letter'.
>>>
>>> Most drives have a life used/expectancy that can be accessed through
>>> their SMART monitoring system
>>
>> Once it became unbootable, none of the software (lots) could see it,
>> including DM. As soon as the USB M.2 adaptor arrives, I will/might be
>> able to delve a bit deeper into the failure - I'm also keen not to
>> return it, with lots of my data on.
>
> I am afraid that data is gone.
> Unless you are prepared to pay hundreds to someone who can repair the
> SSD. People can and do replace chips on mobile phone boards with
> remarkable skill.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/@ststele
>
> But check out the investment in hot air guns, specialised soldering
> irons, infra red scanners,  and microscopes

I concur as someone who has recently re-balled FPGAs, and remounted BGAs
on a 1mm pitch, and a memory on a 0.5mm pitch.

Instead of a "specialised soldering iron" I would use a hotplate and
temperature controlled hot air gun. None is particularly expensive but
it takes experience to get it right.

On 15/11/2023 10:58, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 10:43, John Rumm wrote:
>> What brand/model of drive was it?
>
> Samsung 256Gb

Generally, one of the most reliable drives out there.

Although I did discover to my cost recently that they had a bad batch of
1 and 2TB SATA drives early in 2021. I found a couple of mine developed
some unrecoverable read errors. Fortunately I don't think any made it
into customer's computers - which would have been harder to track down
and fix.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 15/11/2023 12:22, alan_m wrote:
>
> I once went on a half day course on handling electronic components and
> that is one thing they stressed. Static damage can result in long term
> unreliability and not necessarily instant failure. One other point that
> was highlighted was components already soldered to a board can also
> suffer static damage if mishandled.

I once nearly gave a factory manager a heart attack. He realised I had
picked up a finished board to look at it without wearing a wrist strap.

He calmed down when I wiggled my arm a bit, pointing out to him the bare
flesh in contact with the earthed bare metal bench frame :)

Andy

On 15/11/2023 10:46, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 10:37, Theo wrote:
>> By your account it stopped working out of the blue, and rather than
>> when you
>> were messing about inside the PC?  In the latter case it could have
>> suffered
>> damage in some way (eg dropping a screw on it while powered which shorted
>> something, or similar).
>
> Yep, I was feeling quite confident it was working fine, so I had boxed
> it all back up, then the bluescreens then just became more and more
> prominent as time progressed. There were no dropped screws, nothing to
> suggest I had got anything wrong, my only concern was it being supplied
> in an ordinary plastic bag.
>
> The seller has agreed a full refund, but just to double check, I have
> ordered a USB to M.2 adaptor, to see if that can access it.

Given the price of new 256GB SSDs is getting close to the "free with
cornflakes" level, is it worth going for used parts?

(entry level M2 256 drives are sub £20 new)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/