Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?

I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and don't
want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like one with no
touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who wants that!

Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or more
only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF
if you can read this, you're a nerd 10.

On 17/11/2023 13:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>
Online several manufacturers offer this, but really the low volumes
probably make the price higher than ones with.

Imagine trying to by a car without an ashtray back in the 1970s...

> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and
> don't want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like one
> with no touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who wants
> that!
>
No one says you have to use it!

> Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or
> more only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?
>

That merely means its flash RAM rather than SRAM

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On 17/11/2023 13:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>
> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and
> don't want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like one
> with no touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who wants
> that!

SmartPhone with no Camera disables lots of functionality, and
functionality is where its at when selling phones, so whilst I am sure
there are others who don't want one, there are not enough to get the
volumes of sales necessary to cover the cost of design/test etc.

So at a basic level, QR codes every now and again, no Camera no QR Code.
Simple things, like they don't have what my wife put on my list, send a
picture to my wife, "shall I buy this?"
Got a plant with some kind of issue, snap it, pop it in google lens.
Travelling abroad, can't read a notice - google translate.

Lets face it, even the built for the old and infirm Doro has a Camera.

How would you SELL a smart phone with no camera....

>
> Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or
> more only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?
>

No

Dave

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?

Only for those who need to go into secure military facilities etc, ie you're
going to pay a premium and get a worse phone for it. There are companies
who will unsolder the camera from an existing phone for a hefty fee.

(SOP for secure facilities is to require you to leave your phone in a locker
in the guardpost, so most people don't need these)

> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and don't
> want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like one with no
> touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who wants that!

You don't need to use the camera for photography if you don't want, you can
use it for the torch, for reading barcodes, or for taking a photo through a
hole in the floorboards to see what's underneath there.

> Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or more
> only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?

No. Got an example?

Theo

On Fri, 17 Nov 2023 14:43:16 +0000, Theo wrote:

> (SOP for secure facilities is to require you to leave your phone in a
> locker in the guardpost, so most people don't need these

Also for PCI-DSS compliance at the higher levels. When I worked in
insurance it was no phones in the call centre.

On 17/11/2023 in message <mGp*b8Dvz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>>Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or more
>>only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?
>
>No. Got an example?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUKITEL-C33-Expandable-Smartphone-Fingerprint-grey/dp/B0CF9P73VN/ref=sr_1_21?crid=2EEEC6OLIOPCO&keywords=smartphone&qid=1700233575&sprefix=smartphone%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-21&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.23648568-4ba5-49f2-9aa6-31ae75f1e9cd&th=1

You have to read the description carefully!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 in message <mGp*b8Dvz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:
>
> >>Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or more
> >>only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?
> >
> >No. Got an example?
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUKITEL-C33-Expandable-Smartphone-Fingerprint-grey/dp/B0CF9P73VN/
>
> You have to read the description carefully!

Ah, that's because the phone is made of finest Chinesium. Recognised brands
don't do that.

TBF 8GB in a phone of that price is perfectly fine, so don't know why they
want to lie in their advertising. Maybe it also has a 100,000,000 mAh
battery as well?

Seems like their others also lie (the C36 is '4+4GB') so perhaps the lying
starts at the bottom and once you've started you can't stop?

Theo

On 17/11/2023 15:07, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 in message <mGp*b8Dvz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo
> wrote:
>
>>> Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or
>>> more
>>> only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?
>>
>> No.  Got an example?
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUKITEL-C33-Expandable-Smartphone-Fingerprint-grey/dp/B0CF9P73VN/ref=sr_1_21?crid=2EEEC6OLIOPCO&keywords=smartphone&qid=1700233575&sprefix=smartphone%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-21&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.23648568-4ba5-49f2-9aa6-31ae75f1e9cd&th=1
>
>
> You have to read the description carefully!
>

I did.... it has a "slim boby". Fnarr! Fnarr!

On 17/11/2023 in message <uj80v2$2rmtr$1@dont-email.me> mm0fmf wrote:

>On 17/11/2023 15:07, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 17/11/2023 in message <mGp*b8Dvz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or
>>>>more
>>>>only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?
>>>
>>>No.  Got an example?
>>
>>https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUKITEL-C33-Expandable-Smartphone-Fingerprint-grey/dp/B0CF9P73VN/ref=sr_1_21?crid=2EEEC6OLIOPCO&keywords=smartphone&qid=1700233575&sprefix=smartphone%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-21&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.23648568-4ba5-49f2-9aa6-31ae75f1e9cd&th=1
>> You have to read the description carefully!
>>
>
>I did.... it has a "slim boby". Fnarr! Fnarr!

I didn't see that, I do prefer slim ones to the current (mainly American)
size though :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
This joke was so funny when I heard it for the first time I fell of my
dinosaur.

On 17/11/2023 14:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 13:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>>
> Online several manufacturers offer this, but really the low volumes
> probably make the price higher than ones with.
>
> Imagine trying to by a car without an ashtray back in the 1970s...
>
>> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and
>> don't want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like
>> one with no touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who
>> wants that!
>>
> No one says you have to use it!

But some workplaces ban phones with cameras for security reasons and
paying two phone bills and having two different numbers at different
times of the day, simply to have a non-smart phone for work, is a right
pain. Swapping a SIM back and forth is not very practical and likely to
soon wear the contacts out.

On 17-Nov-23 14:43, Theo wrote:
> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>
> Only for those who need to go into secure military facilities etc, ie you're
> going to pay a premium and get a worse phone for it. There are companies
> who will unsolder the camera from an existing phone for a hefty fee.
>
> (SOP for secure facilities is to require you to leave your phone in a locker
> in the guardpost, so most people don't need these)
>
>> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and don't
>> want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like one with no
>> touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who wants that!
>
> You don't need to use the camera for photography if you don't want, you can
> use it for the torch, for reading barcodes, or for taking a photo through a
> hole in the floorboards to see what's underneath there.

Demanding a camera-free smartphone reminds me very much of the sketch in
which Marty Feldmen demanded a copy of Olsen's Standard Book of British
Birds - but the version without the gannet.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 17/11/2023 19:45, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 17-Nov-23 14:43, Theo wrote:
>> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>>
>> Only for those who need to go into secure military facilities etc, ie
>> you're
>> going to pay a premium and get a worse phone for it.  There are companies
>> who will unsolder the camera from an existing phone for a hefty fee.
>>
>> (SOP for secure facilities is to require you to leave your phone in a
>> locker
>> in the guardpost, so most people don't need these)
>>
>>> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and
>>> don't
>>> want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like one
>>> with no
>>> touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who wants that!
>>
>> You don't need to use the camera for photography if you don't want,
>> you can
>> use it for the torch, for reading barcodes, or for taking a photo
>> through a
>> hole in the floorboards to see what's underneath there.
>
> Demanding a camera-free smartphone reminds me very much of the sketch in
> which Marty Feldmen demanded a copy of Olsen's Standard Book of British
> Birds - but the version without the gannet.
>
I can't buy that! It's torn!

On 17/11/2023 in message <xn0o9g2d42gb7ic005@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>On 17/11/2023 in message <mGp*b8Dvz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo
>wrote:
>
>>>Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or
>>>more
>>>only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?
>>
>>No. Got an example?
>
>https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUKITEL-C33-Expandable-Smartphone-Fingerprint-grey/dp/B0CF9P73VN/ref=sr_1_21?crid=2EEEC6OLIOPCO&keywords=smartphone&qid=1700233575&sprefix=smartphone%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-21&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.23648568-4ba5-49f2-9aa6-31ae75f1e9cd&th=1
>
>You have to read the description carefully!

Here's an even more blatant one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackview-Tab60-Tablet-Bluetooth-Headphone/dp/B0CHML4ZDJ/?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=dlx_deals_sc_dcl_img_dt_dealz_ic&pd_rd_w=l8G17&content-id=amzn1.sym.a2d9d1cf-9afa-45a5-89d6-0379ea7f5e04&pf_rd_p=a2d9d1cf-9afa-45a5-89d6-0379ea7f5e04&pf_rd_r=F7HNA65141KFHY7PCYXV&pd_rd_wg=G3eo9&pd_rd_r=fa69dd73-fcce-424e-a133-a551d07b1b81&th=1

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation

On 17/11/2023 14:43, Theo wrote:
> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>
> Only for those who need to go into secure military facilities etc, ie you're
> going to pay a premium and get a worse phone for it. There are companies
> who will unsolder the camera from an existing phone for a hefty fee.
>
> (SOP for secure facilities is to require you to leave your phone in a locker
> in the guardpost, so most people don't need these)

Possibly for high security no cameras and no audio recording devices.
A smartphone will fail both.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 18/11/2023 04:31, alan_m wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 14:43, Theo wrote:
>> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>>
>> Only for those who need to go into secure military facilities etc, ie
>> you're
>> going to pay a premium and get a worse phone for it.  There are companies
>> who will unsolder the camera from an existing phone for a hefty fee.
>>
>> (SOP for secure facilities is to require you to leave your phone in a
>> locker
>> in the guardpost, so most people don't need these)
>
> Possibly for high security no cameras and no audio recording devices.
> A smartphone will fail both.
>
If its that secure, do they allow any phones at all. All phones can be
used as a recording device. Simply ring your own voicemail...

Also why would you need a phone in such a place? Probably also has
faraday cages so won't work. If you need to make a call they will have a
phone you can use.
Any incoming to voice mail.....

..... definitely sounds a niche requirement...

Dave

On 17/11/2023 in message <xn0o9g0762dgn6a004@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?

Many thanks for all the replies :-)

I don't need anything to meet any special security needs and just wondered
if such a beast was available in the hope that the costs of the camera
(which are getting more and more sophisticated) could be spent on more
memory or a faster CPU but apparently not.

On the laptop front I use a Bluetooth mouse and turn the touch-pad off but
a laptop without a touch-pad would allow better spacing off the keys,

Thanks again.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

On 18/11/2023 09:39, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 in message <xn0o9g0762dgn6a004@news.individual.net> Jeff
> Gaines wrote:
>
>> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>
> Many thanks for all the replies :-)
>
> I don't need anything to meet any special security needs and just
> wondered if such a beast was available in the hope that the costs of the
> camera (which are getting more and more sophisticated) could be spent on
> more memory or a faster CPU but apparently not.

I guessed that was your thinking, but catering for minority interests
often adds to the cost. Even if you just don't solder the Camera
components onto the phone that may mean several different production
options, parts lists and different software versions all of which is
extra expense, for a specialist niche market.

Also as I said the Camera in the phone adds so much to the utility of
the phone. I use my camera so often for simply noting things, like when
seeing something in IKEA and noting its pickup bay.

I do own a separate camera but its bulky to carry, its really only
better for long telephoto shots (it has a super zoom lense) and its a
faff getting the pictures onto my PC. Those from the phone come via
OneDrive.

So rather than look for a Smartphone without a Camera why not look at
selling the Camera on Vinted or similar. Then the phone would be cheaper
and you would always have a camera and never miss an important shot...

>
> On the laptop front I use a Bluetooth mouse and turn the touch-pad off
> but a laptop without a touch-pad would allow better spacing off the keys,
>

I use a Lenovo T480 and I can't see the keyboard really needs to be
bigger. I also like the touchpad as it has separate "mouse buttons"..

> Thanks again.
>

Dave

alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 14:43, Theo wrote:
> > Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
> >
> > Only for those who need to go into secure military facilities etc, ie you're
> > going to pay a premium and get a worse phone for it. There are companies
> > who will unsolder the camera from an existing phone for a hefty fee.
> >
> > (SOP for secure facilities is to require you to leave your phone in a locker
> > in the guardpost, so most people don't need these)
>
> Possibly for high security no cameras and no audio recording devices.
> A smartphone will fail both.

Depends on the threat model. eg if you service fighter jets, they don't
want you taking photos of sensitive documents or military hardware, but
audio isn't really a problem - you're hardly going to dictate the schematic
of the classified radar to an audio recording.

But I agree a 'no personal phones' policy is a lot simpler here.
(if you get a work phone, they probably disable the camera via MDM)

Theo

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/11/2023 09:39, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> Also as I said the Camera in the phone adds so much to the utility of
> the phone. I use my camera so often for simply noting things, like when
> seeing something in IKEA and noting its pickup bay.
>
> I do own a separate camera but its bulky to carry, its really only
> better for long telephoto shots (it has a super zoom lense) and its a
> faff getting the pictures onto my PC. Those from the phone come via
> OneDrive.
>
Panasonic TZ60 is the answer. I very rarely take my phone with me
because it's of very little use to me. I use a laptop when I need to
browse the internet, send messages, whatever. I use the TZ60 for
taking pictures, proper viewfinder, long telephoto when needed, as
handy (smaller even) than most modern smartphones.

--
Chris Green
·

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:58:41 +0000, David Wade wrote:

> Also as I said the Camera in the phone adds so much to the utility of
> the phone. I use my camera so often for simply noting things, like when
> seeing something in IKEA and noting its pickup bay.

It's weird how long it's taken me to remember I carry a fully functional
camera wherever I go. But nowdays it's snap away for screenshots, wiring
configs, error messages.

And that's before you start using Google Lens ...

On 17 Nov 2023 13:48:03 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
wrote:

>
>Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?

If it doesn't have a camera it can't be a smartphone.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 00:48:03 +1100, Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
wrote:

>
> Any of you come across a smartph`one without a camera?
>
> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and
> don't want another.

Why does it matter if it has a camera you never use ?

Unlikely that there is enough of a market for a smartphone
with no camera to warrant making one.

I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like one
> with no touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who wants
> that!

Again, no one is forcing you to use it.

> Have you noticed how many smartphones now advertise with 12 GB RAM or
> more only to discover in the small print half of it is virtual memory?

Doesnt happen with iphones.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 04:18:30 +1100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:

> On 17/11/2023 14:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 17/11/2023 13:48, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>> Any of you come across a smartphone without a camera?
>>>
>> Online several manufacturers offer this, but really the low volumes
>> probably make the price higher than ones with.
>> Imagine trying to by a car without an ashtray back in the 1970s...
>>
>>> I want phone/text/email/app store but I have 2 excellent cameras and
>>> don't want another. I expect it's a bit like laptops where I'd like
>>> one with no touch pad but seems I am the only person in the world who
>>> wants that!
>>>
>> No one says you have to use it!
>
> But some workplaces ban phones with cameras for security reasons and
> paying two phone bills and having two different numbers at different
> times of the day, simply to have a non-smart phone for work, is a right
> pain. Swapping a SIM back and forth is not very practical and likely to
> soon wear the contacts out.

Not a problem with an eSIM.

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:20:42 +1100, ken, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57Frj93U1@mid.individual.net>

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:13:06 +1100, ken, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Keema Nam addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You are now exposed as a liar, as well as an ignorant troll."
"MID: <0001HW.22B654E7000BF12E70000F4CC2EF@news.giganews.com>"