On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
> <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>
>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives the
>>> usual tone.
>>
>> Try
>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>> should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be
>> any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>
> Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears. Long
> chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer expected tomorrow
> morning!
>
> In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault immediately
> followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>
It is very hard to see how unless it has a virus that is using the
internet, that could cause a slow download rate.

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 11/22/2023 11:41 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives the usual tone.
>>>
>>> Try
>>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>>
>> Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears. Long chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer expected tomorrow morning!
>>
>> In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault immediately followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>>
> It is very hard to see how unless it has a virus that is using the internet, that could cause a slow download rate.

I was able to reproduce it, in a limited sense.

After '601 is installed, I did a Speedtest.net test and
my network speed measured via a Win7 VM, was cut in half.

I removed '601 and the speed came back to spec (the "contract rate").

wusa /uninstall /kb:4539601 /quiet

It will reboot, right after that finished.

WUSA stands for Windows Update Stand Alone.

What I also found weird, is the System Restore point didn't
affect the Windows Update work. I could roll back, and the damn update
was still inside C: . It looks like you can roll back and forward,
and "not fix it".

But the WUSA should fix it. Backup first, then give it a try.

Doing

wusa /?

gives the Help, but there's nothing in there that adds any
debugging value particularly.

Paul

In message <ujml6a$1nh4h$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
>><junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives the
>>>>usual tone.
>>>
>>> Try
>>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>>>should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be
>>>any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>> Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears.
>>Long chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer expected
>>tomorrow morning!
>> In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault
>>immediately followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>>
>It is very hard to see how unless it has a virus that is using the
>internet, that could cause a slow download rate.

Hmm. Seems to be fixed!

Engineer changed the incoming socket and cable without benefit.

Agreed that the download speed was well below line capacity.

Initially finger pointed at router or internal house wiring connections.

Just before leaving, he contacted someone who was able to reset some
external device which monitors and controls the router data speed.

Eureka!

--
Tim Lamb

In message <ujmo7r$1nsu4$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 11/22/2023 11:41 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
>>><junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives
>>>>>the usual tone.
>>>>
>>>> Try
>>>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>>>>should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be
>>>>any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>>>
>>> Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears.
>>>Long chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer expected
>>>tomorrow morning!
>>>
>>> In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault
>>>immediately followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>>>
>> It is very hard to see how unless it has a virus that is using the
>>internet, that could cause a slow download rate.
>
>I was able to reproduce it, in a limited sense.
>
>After '601 is installed, I did a Speedtest.net test and
>my network speed measured via a Win7 VM, was cut in half.
>
>I removed '601 and the speed came back to spec (the "contract rate").
>
> wusa /uninstall /kb:4539601 /quiet
>
>It will reboot, right after that finished.
>
>WUSA stands for Windows Update Stand Alone.
>
>What I also found weird, is the System Restore point didn't
>affect the Windows Update work. I could roll back, and the damn update
>was still inside C: . It looks like you can roll back and forward,
>and "not fix it".
>
>But the WUSA should fix it. Backup first, then give it a try.
>
>Doing
>
> wusa /?
>
>gives the Help, but there's nothing in there that adds any
>debugging value particularly.

Ok Paul. Thanks for your time.

I'm inclined to leave it alone for a few days and see what happens.
I'll have a look at the wusa help and see if I'm capable:-)

Back up today!

--
Tim Lamb

On 22/11/2023 21:00, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ujlhgi$1efse$1@dont-email.me>, Andrew
> <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> writes
> snip
>> On 22/11/2023 14:39, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>
>> If your Win7 box is running on wifi then plug it in with
>> a proper cat5e cable and make sure the pc is using the wired
>> connection, if it is no faster then investigate the log file
>> in your router as above.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, my Network adapters list has no wireless
> adapter or wifi.

As a general rule a wired ethernet connection will be faster and less
prone to random change in performance than a wifi connection. So if
one's internet connectivity includes wifi at any point in the chain,
then that introduces an additional layer of complexity that may need
investigation.

I often find when there is a complaint of "slow internet" it is wise to
check that it is not actually a case of "slow wifi". Especially as this
can be caused by some change not even under the owners control, like a
neighbour setting up a new wifi access point on the same wifi channel as
yours, or getting a new leaky microwave!

However in this case we can rule out a wifi problem due to your total
lack of wifi on the PC :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
> <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>
>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives the
>>> usual tone.
>>
>> Try
>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>> should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be
>> any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>
> Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears. Long
> chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer expected tomorrow
> morning!
>
> In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault immediately
> followed a Windows roll up installation:-(

In your other post at 15:11 on 22/11 you mentioned that the WAN speed
reported in the routers management page matched what you were seeing on
your speed test results.

Since the WAN speed will represent the maximum performance that you are
going to get it strongly suggests that the PC itself is not part of the
problem.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

In message <ujneou$1qtcs$2@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
>><junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives the
>>>>usual tone.
>>>
>>> Try
>>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>>>should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be
>>>any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>> Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears.
>>Long chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer expected
>>tomorrow morning!
>> In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault
>>immediately followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>
>In your other post at 15:11 on 22/11 you mentioned that the WAN speed
>reported in the routers management page matched what you were seeing on
>your speed test results.
>
>Since the WAN speed will represent the maximum performance that you are
>going to get it strongly suggests that the PC itself is not part of the
>problem.

The post from Paul is interesting. I'm inclined to leave things alone
but his findings appear to show a similar effect. The upcoming W11 move
is a disincentive.

Remote throttling triggered by some W7 glitch seems to be the cause.
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 11/22/2023 1:58 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ujlia0$1ek6o$2@dont-email.me>, John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
> snip
>>>> John.
>>>> We are still on copper here. Early cable adopter village but they didn't bother with our lane:-(
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the above. Printed off for step by step work:-)
>>>  John.
>>> Well that was fun.
>>>  The data listed under WAN included figures matching what I am seeing on  a broadband test.
>>
>> ok, in one sense that is reassuring - it means the PC is not doing anything odd :-)
>>
>>
>>> Basically I need to raise a query with Plusnet?
>>
>> Yup sounds like it.
>>
>> If you login to the portal (portal.plus.net), it will give you their predicted speed for your line... (which may be more similar to what you used to get)
>
> They carefully only claim 5-6meg. I have had a rock solid 13meg for years, despite moving the phone line across the lane! Current 1.8 down and 0.7up
>
> Anyway, we'll see what Openreach have to say tomorrow.
>

This could be caused if they swapped line pairs for some reason.
They can be sneaky, and do this while you are sleeping.

I looked out the window here one day, and a guy was about to
disconnect my ADSL. He said he was switching me to another pair,
so perhaps the pair I had, was being given to a VDSL customer.
The lines are sorted according to "goodness", and that's how they
know which pair to give to which customer.

A rock solid 13meg, means there is five hundred feet or less of
line pair, to the terminating equipment.

When you're getting 1.8 down, now you're talking a pair that
goes all the way back to the Central Office. That's how I used
to get my ADSL (before ADSL2 showed up). Having the connection
terminated in a pedestal at the end of the road, really cuts down
on wire length and impairment.

ADSL works on "frequency bins", and if a single bin is impaired,
then the other bins continue to work. But when you're dealing
with 6000 meters of wire, all frequencies are attenuated, so
the overall rate has to drop. This is why the original ADSL
achieved such bad rates, using wire going all the way to the Central Office.

Some ADSL modems, have a frequency response graph you can download
from the unit. And this is a way to "characterize" your line. There
should be some amount of "unallocated margin", and this means the
line will have good error rate characteristics at the frequency offered.
This is a judgment call by the operator, as setting the line too high,
only "delivers bad data faster". This means your original line may have
been capable of running 16 or 17, but they artificially set it to 13,
to give unallocated margin. Using the modem chart that keeps track
of performance, it's possible to decide whether you should phone
up and say "hey, the chart says I can be bumped from 13 to 14".
Not all modems have that -- if I upgrade the firmware on my current ADSL modem
in fact, that interface has been removed from my model.

Dialup modems also had frequency bins, so this is not actually an alien
innovation. It's a kind of continuation of some old tech. To dump the bins
on a dialup modem, you wait until the session is terminated, and then there
is a command that returns the bin data. Whereas on the few ADSL modems
that have the data interface, you can get that info while the connection
remains running (the protocol might be telnet, to the modem).

Paul

On 23/11/2023 10:02, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ujml6a$1nh4h$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>
>> It is very hard to see how unless it has a virus that is using the
>> internet, that could cause a slow download rate.
>
> Hmm. Seems to be fixed!
>
> Engineer changed the incoming socket and cable without benefit.
>
Ah. Ho hum.

> Agreed that the download speed was well below line capacity.
>
It certainly was.

> Initially finger pointed at router or internal house wiring connections.
> toFriend went from 5Mps to 13Mbps when he disconnected legacy phone wiring
from his master socket....

> Just before leaving, he contacted someone who was able to reset some
> external device which monitors and controls the router data speed.
>
Yes. If the line is consistently showing errors the DSLAM in the
exchange simply lowers the maximum connect speed and this needs a
manual reset to default.

> Eureka!
>

--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 23/11/2023 12:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
> Remote throttling triggered by some W7 glitch seems to be the cause.

No. Your DSL router, the exchange equipment or the connection between
them had the issue The equipment at your end after the router wont
affect the speed between the exchange and you.

In message <ujnvsb$1tg52$1@dont-email.me>, mm0fmf <none@invalid.com>
writes
>On 23/11/2023 12:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> Remote throttling triggered by some W7 glitch seems to be the cause.
>
>No. Your DSL router, the exchange equipment or the connection between
>them had the issue The equipment at your end after the router wont
>affect the speed between the exchange and you.

Hmm. Another glitch at 6.30 this evening. M/c restarted and connection
came back at roughly half the earlier speed.

Couple of curiosities. My speed check displays my location and where the
test is coming from. For years, my location has displayed as *Houghton
Regis* about 10 miles away. After this mornings fix the location was
Knebworth, even closer.
The seriously low speeds put me at Leicester!

The other issue is that opening the network connection and signing in
does not function and gives an error number which is meaningless to me!
Computer re-start has been the way to re-connect.
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 23/11/2023 19:03, Tim Lamb wrote:
> Hmm. Another glitch at 6.30 this evening. *M/c* restarted and connection
> came back at roughly half the earlier speed.
Motor Cycle?

Get a new carburettor?

--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 23/11/2023 12:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ujneou$1qtcs$2@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>> On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
>>> <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives the
>>>>> usual tone.
>>>>
>>>> Try
>>>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>>>> should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be
>>>> any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>>>  Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears.
>>> Long  chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer expected
>>> tomorrow  morning!
>>>  In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault
>>> immediately  followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>>
>> In your other post at 15:11 on 22/11 you mentioned that the WAN speed
>> reported in the routers management page matched what you were seeing
>> on your speed test results.
>>
>> Since the WAN speed will represent the maximum performance that you
>> are going to get it strongly suggests that the PC itself is not part
>> of the problem.
>
> The post from Paul is interesting. I'm inclined to leave things alone
> but his findings appear to show a similar effect. The upcoming W11 move
> is a disincentive.
>
> Remote throttling triggered by some W7 glitch seems to be the cause.

Remember that the WAN side of the router has no knowledge of what is
connected at the LAN side. More so at the DSLAM on the other end of you
ADSL line. So if the router and the DSLAM have negotiated a lower line
rate, it will be as a result of the local line conditions, and might
also be influenced by other metrics of "line stability".

(for example, the DSLAM can interpret frequent disconnections as a
metric of poor line quality, and may adapt the data rate down to
mitigate. That is why you are advised not to turn the router off at
night since the daily disconnections might fool the equipment into
thinking it has a poor stability connection, and rate adapt slower to
"fix" it. They router / DSLAM will also train over a period of days - so
that adaptation can be quite slow. Hence why sometimes fixing a line
fault does not immediately get back to the original speed).

So if a glitch caused by windows did reduce your maximum ethernet
throughput, you might see that reflected in lower internet download
speeds[1], but the sync speed reported by the modem would be unaffected,
which is why that is a useful pointer as to where the throttling is
happening.

[1] if the ethernet reduction was so large as to bring it lower than the
WAN speed, keeping in mind that the "normal" ethernet speed these days
will be at least 100Mbps, and quite possibly 1Gbps, the ethernet
reduction would need to be very substantial to be noticeable.

--

Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

In message <ujq4rb$2aohv$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>On 23/11/2023 12:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ujneou$1qtcs$2@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
>><see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>> On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
>>>><junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>>>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives
>>>>>>the usual tone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try
>>>>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>>>>>should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not be
>>>>>any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>>>>  Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears.
>>>>Long  chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer
>>>>expected tomorrow  morning!
>>>>  In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault
>>>>immediately  followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>>>
>>> In your other post at 15:11 on 22/11 you mentioned that the WAN
>>>speed reported in the routers management page matched what you were
>>>seeing on your speed test results.
>>>
>>> Since the WAN speed will represent the maximum performance that you
>>>are going to get it strongly suggests that the PC itself is not part
>>>of the problem.
>> The post from Paul is interesting. I'm inclined to leave things
>>alone but his findings appear to show a similar effect. The upcoming
>>W11 move is a disincentive.
>> Remote throttling triggered by some W7 glitch seems to be the cause.
>
>Remember that the WAN side of the router has no knowledge of what is
>connected at the LAN side. More so at the DSLAM on the other end of you
>ADSL line. So if the router and the DSLAM have negotiated a lower line
>rate, it will be as a result of the local line conditions, and might
>also be influenced by other metrics of "line stability".
>
>(for example, the DSLAM can interpret frequent disconnections as a
>metric of poor line quality, and may adapt the data rate down to
>mitigate. That is why you are advised not to turn the router off at
>night since the daily disconnections might fool the equipment into
>thinking it has a poor stability connection, and rate adapt slower to
>"fix" it. They router / DSLAM will also train over a period of days -
>so that adaptation can be quite slow. Hence why sometimes fixing a line
>fault does not immediately get back to the original speed).

Indeed. I now suspect intermittent line faults might be the cause rather
than the computer re-starts during the MS roll up debacle.

Currently the router is climbing back toward the normal speed after a
major drop yesterday evening.

The overhead cable passes through trees bordering a river and is clearly
in contact with the branches of a young Willow. The gusty wind is waving
the branches and perhaps abrading the insulation. Chainsaw time perhaps!
>
>So if a glitch caused by windows did reduce your maximum ethernet
>throughput, you might see that reflected in lower internet download
>speeds[1], but the sync speed reported by the modem would be
>unaffected, which is why that is a useful pointer as to where the
>throttling is happening.
>
>
>[1] if the ethernet reduction was so large as to bring it lower than
>the WAN speed, keeping in mind that the "normal" ethernet speed these
>days will be at least 100Mbps, and quite possibly 1Gbps, the ethernet
>reduction would need to be very substantial to be noticeable.
>

--
Tim Lamb

On 24/11/2023 12:52, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ujq4rb$2aohv$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>> On 23/11/2023 12:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <ujneou$1qtcs$2@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
>>> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>>> On 22/11/2023 18:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>> In message <ks6phcFj69aU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
>>>>> <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>>>>> On 22/11/2023 10:48, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't have a conventional phone handy. The Panasonic just gives
>>>>>>> the  usual tone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try
>>>>>> Dial 17070. When prompted, dial 2 to select a quiet line test. You
>>>>>> should hear "Quiet Line Test" and then silence, there should not
>>>>>> be any pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing or similar noises.
>>>>>  Done that. Dead quiet within the limitations of my elderly ears.
>>>>> Long  chat with an engineer from Plusnet. Openreach engineer
>>>>> expected  tomorrow  morning!
>>>>>  In my opinion it is something wrong with the PC as the fault
>>>>> immediately  followed a Windows roll up installation:-(
>>>>
>>>> In your other post at 15:11 on 22/11 you mentioned that the WAN
>>>> speed  reported in the routers management page matched what you were
>>>> seeing  on your speed test results.
>>>>
>>>> Since the WAN speed will represent the maximum performance that you
>>>> are going to get it strongly suggests that the PC itself is not part
>>>> of the problem.
>>>  The post from Paul is interesting. I'm inclined to leave things
>>> alone  but his findings appear to show a similar effect. The upcoming
>>> W11 move  is a disincentive.
>>>  Remote throttling triggered by some W7 glitch seems to be the cause.
>>
>> Remember that the WAN side of the router has no knowledge of what is
>> connected at the LAN side. More so at the DSLAM on the other end of
>> you ADSL line. So if the router and the DSLAM have negotiated a lower
>> line rate, it will be as a result of the local line conditions, and
>> might also be influenced by other metrics of "line stability".
>>
>> (for example, the DSLAM can interpret frequent disconnections as a
>> metric of poor line quality, and may adapt the data rate down to
>> mitigate. That is why you are advised not to turn the router off at
>> night since the daily disconnections might fool the equipment into
>> thinking it has a poor stability connection, and rate adapt slower to
>> "fix" it. They router / DSLAM will also train over a period of days -
>> so that adaptation can be quite slow. Hence why sometimes fixing a
>> line fault does not immediately get back to the original speed).
>
> Indeed. I now suspect intermittent line faults might be the cause rather
> than the computer re-starts during the MS roll up debacle.
>

There is a shitload of wind at the moment...the old man of madras
springs to mind
I too suspect there is a crap connection in an overhead, and they should
bring in a reflectometer and test the thing every which way to kingdom come

> Currently the router is climbing back toward the normal speed after a
> major drop yesterday evening.
>
Classic symptoms

> The overhead cable passes through trees bordering a river and is clearly
> in contact with the branches of a young Willow. The gusty wind is waving
> the branches and perhaps abrading the insulation. Chainsaw time perhaps!

Definitely.

>

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

In message <ujq8v0$2b93t$3@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 24/11/2023 12:52, Tim Lamb wrote:
Snip
>> Currently the router is climbing back toward the normal speed after a
>>major drop yesterday evening.
>>
>Classic symptoms
>
>> The overhead cable passes through trees bordering a river and is
>>clearly in contact with the branches of a young Willow. The gusty
>>wind is waving the branches and perhaps abrading the insulation.
>>Chainsaw time perhaps!
>
>Definitely.

There is a fishing club working party tomorrow morning!

--
Tim Lamb

On 11/23/2023 2:03 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ujnvsb$1tg52$1@dont-email.me>, mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> writes
>> On 23/11/2023 12:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> Remote throttling triggered by some W7 glitch seems to be the cause.
>>
>> No. Your DSL router, the exchange equipment or the connection between them had the issue The equipment at your end after the router wont affect the speed between the exchange and you.
>
> Hmm. Another glitch at 6.30 this evening. M/c restarted and connection came back at roughly half the earlier speed.
>
> Couple of curiosities. My speed check displays my location and where the test is coming from. For years, my location has displayed as *Houghton Regis* about 10 miles away. After this mornings fix the location was Knebworth, even closer.
> The seriously low speeds put me at Leicester!
>
> The other issue is that opening the network connection and signing in does not function and gives an error number which is meaningless to me! Computer re-start has been the way to re-connect.
>>
>

Whatever terminates your circuit (DSLAM), the first step
is analog to digital conversion. That is in effect, the
"demodulator" of a MoDem.

In modern architectures, the digital samples are backhauled to
some other city. Using SONET/SDH (fiber), you can drop the traffic
at any number of terminating pieces of equipment, so all the
power dissipation isn't in the same Central Office.

In early ADSL, termination was done with plain old IBM PC compatible
boxes, rack mounted, with cards plugged into slots, one per customer.
That meant a lot of wasted space (and presumably power) for the prototypes.
They have made it a lot neater and tidier since then.

Your termination point (where they check the PPPOE or PPPOA username and password),
might well have always been moving around. Mine moves around, when I reboot the
network equipment here.

Once in digital form, you could backhaul to a termination point, half
way across the country, with NO impact on results. The digital part
of the trip, should not degrade the traffic. Only the analog section
to the MoDem in the telco equipment, can mess things up.

I can tell you of one case though, where it is an on-premise problem.

I had an Antec power supply, maybe around 450W or so, malfunction, and
on the old CRT television set, I could see a "light pattern of hash"
on the screen. This was the ATX supply, dumping switching transistor noise
from the front end, back onto mains. The noise would travel down the
mains wire, into the SGS Thompson Modem/router and cause "Loss of Sync".
Which is equivalent to a "desperately bad line condition". The ADSL signal
is normally down in the soup, and to be sprayed with switching noise,
was more than it could tolerate. After I replaced the ATX supply making the hash
pattern on the TV screen, I was rewarded with normal Modem operation.

You could only see that on an analog TV set, not on one of the newer standards.
The PC supply itself was still producing output, so no output problem was apparent.

Anything which could be touching a bare wire, could upset the line impedance and
cause an impairment. But usually this would not affect all frequency bins, and
only affect a few of them. If it broadly affected the line, you'd see the
Loss of Sync LED pattern on the modem, and nothing would flow until it re-synched.

Paul

In message <ujqqn9$2e78k$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 11/23/2023 2:03 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>Your termination point (where they check the PPPOE or PPPOA username
>and password),
>might well have always been moving around. Mine moves around, when I reboot the
>network equipment here.
>
>Once in digital form, you could backhaul to a termination point, half
>way across the country, with NO impact on results. The digital part
>of the trip, should not degrade the traffic. Only the analog section
>to the MoDem in the telco equipment, can mess things up.

Ok Paul. Pretty much what the engineer hinted.
>
>I can tell you of one case though, where it is an on-premise problem.
>
>I had an Antec power supply, maybe around 450W or so, malfunction, and
>on the old CRT television set, I could see a "light pattern of hash"
>on the screen. This was the ATX supply, dumping switching transistor noise
>from the front end, back onto mains. The noise would travel down the
>mains wire, into the SGS Thompson Modem/router and cause "Loss of Sync".
>Which is equivalent to a "desperately bad line condition". The ADSL signal
>is normally down in the soup, and to be sprayed with switching noise,
>was more than it could tolerate. After I replaced the ATX supply making
>the hash
>pattern on the TV screen, I was rewarded with normal Modem operation.

We have two TV sets linked in. The data input is rarely used so I could
easily unhitch them.
>
>You could only see that on an analog TV set, not on one of the newer standards.
>The PC supply itself was still producing output, so no output problem
>was apparent.
>
>Anything which could be touching a bare wire, could upset the line
>impedance and
>cause an impairment. But usually this would not affect all frequency bins, and
>only affect a few of them. If it broadly affected the line, you'd see the
>Loss of Sync LED pattern on the modem, and nothing would flow until it
>re-synched.
This appears more likely. At the moment, speed is at 11 Mb down and
1.8Mb up. Nearly back to normal for my location.

I plan to remove some tree branches touching the overhead line tomorrow
and will see if that has any impact.

--
Tim Lamb

On 11/23/2023 9:35 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <ujnlhr$1rufh$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>> On 11/22/2023 1:58 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
> snip
>> A rock solid 13meg, means there is five hundred feet or less of
>> line pair, to the terminating equipment.
> I think the nearest cabinet is 600m. Mostly overhead.
>
> The engineer said his line test gave a maximum 17meg.
>
> On the *MS roll-up* install... did you spot any benefits as I am inclined to leave well alone!
>

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-31-2020-kb4539601-preview-of-monthly-rollup-1768e5a4-04bc-e964-a7a7-9509f91b0d1f

Improvements and fixes

Addresses an issue that might cause your wallpaper to display as black
when set to Stretch after installing KB4534310.

Addresses an issue that causes the stretching of a wallpaper image using
non-proportional scaling to fail, and a black screen displays instead.

Prerequisite:

servicing stack update (SSU) (KB4490628) # Sometimes, it is the install of these, that "invites the others".

latest SHA-2 update (KB4474419) # That's an update required, to pick up half the
# patches ever released, so you already had that...

This particular update, is a "re-release" of KB4534310, to fix problems with that update.
It doesn't look like removing it, should have too much effect.

*******

The previous update, had more technical merit. But it caused the wallpaper problem.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-14-2020-kb4534310-monthly-rollup-9ce32b1b-77ef-9a17-7ecb-2bcebcaa9ff5

Paul

On 11/24/2023 3:47 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:

>> Anything which could be touching a bare wire, could upset the line impedance and
>> cause an impairment. But usually this would not affect all frequency bins, and
>> only affect a few of them. If it broadly affected the line, you'd see the
>> Loss of Sync LED pattern on the modem, and nothing would flow until it re-synched.
> This appears more likely. At the moment, speed is at 11 Mb down and 1.8Mb up. Nearly back to normal for my location.
>
> I plan to remove some tree branches touching the overhead line tomorrow and will see if that has any impact.

Those telecom lines are tough old birds. I guess we'll soon
find out, whether you can grind the insulation off them, when
you get up there for a look.

Just make sure they aren't power lines :-)

I think that's why they do the tree trimming around
here, so home owners don't get too adventurous.

Paul

On 25/11/2023 08:12, Paul wrote:
> On 11/24/2023 3:47 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>
>>> Anything which could be touching a bare wire, could upset the line impedance and
>>> cause an impairment. But usually this would not affect all frequency bins, and
>>> only affect a few of them. If it broadly affected the line, you'd see the
>>> Loss of Sync LED pattern on the modem, and nothing would flow until it re-synched.
>> This appears more likely. At the moment, speed is at 11 Mb down and 1.8Mb up. Nearly back to normal for my location.
>>
>> I plan to remove some tree branches touching the overhead line tomorrow and will see if that has any impact.
>
> Those telecom lines are tough old birds. I guess we'll soon
> find out, whether you can grind the insulation off them, when
> you get up there for a look.
>
I've found its more often the termination of overheads that takes the
flexing badly

> Just make sure they aren't power lines :-)
>
> I think that's why they do the tree trimming around
> here, so home owners don't get too adventurous.
>
They do that for power lines - telephone not so much.

> Paul
>

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

In message <ujs8s7$2nrh0$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 11/23/2023 9:35 AM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <ujnlhr$1rufh$1@dont-email.me>, Paul
>><nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>>> On 11/22/2023 1:58 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> snip
>>> A rock solid 13meg, means there is five hundred feet or less of
>>> line pair, to the terminating equipment.
>> I think the nearest cabinet is 600m. Mostly overhead.
>>
>> The engineer said his line test gave a maximum 17meg.
>>
>> On the *MS roll-up* install... did you spot any benefits as I am
>>inclined to leave well alone!
>>
>
>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-31-2020-kb4539601-prev
>iew-of-monthly-rollup-1768e5a4-04bc-e964-a7a7-9509f91b0d1f
>
>Improvements and fixes
>
> Addresses an issue that might cause your wallpaper to display as black
> when set to Stretch after installing KB4534310.
>
> Addresses an issue that causes the stretching of a wallpaper image using
> non-proportional scaling to fail, and a black screen displays instead.

Ha ha! I don't even know what wallpaper is in relation to my display!
>
>Prerequisite:
>
> servicing stack update (SSU) (KB4490628) # Sometimes, it is the
>install of these, that "invites the others".
>
> latest SHA-2 update (KB4474419) # That's an update
>required, to pick up half the
> # patches ever released,
>so you already had that...
>
>This particular update, is a "re-release" of KB4534310, to fix problems
>with that update.
>It doesn't look like removing it, should have too much effect.
>
>*******
>
>The previous update, had more technical merit. But it caused the
>wallpaper problem.
>
>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-14-2020-kb4534310-mont
>hly-rollup-9ce32b1b-77ef-9a17-7ecb-2bcebcaa9ff5

Hmm. I downloaded the monthly security set and the big roll up at the
same time but there were several m/c re-starts called for during the
install process.

Other than the co-incident issue with download speed, everything seems
normal.

Dropped to 5 meg. overnight! No wind and -2deg. C frost.

--
Tim Lamb

In message <ujsaab$2o1jp$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 11/24/2023 3:47 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>
>>> Anything which could be touching a bare wire, could upset the line
>>>impedance and
>>> cause an impairment. But usually this would not affect all frequency
>>>bins, and
>>> only affect a few of them. If it broadly affected the line, you'd see the
>>> Loss of Sync LED pattern on the modem, and nothing would flow until
>>>it re-synched.
>> This appears more likely. At the moment, speed is at 11 Mb down and
>>1.8Mb up. Nearly back to normal for my location.
>>
>> I plan to remove some tree branches touching the overhead line
>>tomorrow and will see if that has any impact.
>
>Those telecom lines are tough old birds. I guess we'll soon
>find out, whether you can grind the insulation off them, when
>you get up there for a look.

I'd need an access platform to get anywhere near the cable itself.
Standing in the farm loader bucket is no longer considered safe with the
number of mobile phone cameras walking by:-(
>
>Just make sure they aren't power lines :-)

The support pole is in my field. I could knock it over and force a
rewire:-)
>
>I think that's why they do the tree trimming around
>here, so home owners don't get too adventurous.
>
> Paul
>

--
Tim Lamb

In message <ujse4v$2ohb4$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 25/11/2023 08:12, Paul wrote:
>> On 11/24/2023 3:47 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>
>>>> Anything which could be touching a bare wire, could upset the line
>>>>impedance and
>>>> cause an impairment. But usually this would not affect all
>>>>frequency bins, and
>>>> only affect a few of them. If it broadly affected the line, you'd see the
>>>> Loss of Sync LED pattern on the modem, and nothing would flow until
>>>>it re-synched.
>>> This appears more likely. At the moment, speed is at 11 Mb down and
>>>1.8Mb up. Nearly back to normal for my location.
>>>
>>> I plan to remove some tree branches touching the overhead line
>>>tomorrow and will see if that has any impact.
>> Those telecom lines are tough old birds. I guess we'll soon
>> find out, whether you can grind the insulation off them, when
>> you get up there for a look.
>>
>I've found its more often the termination of overheads that takes the
>flexing badly
>
>> Just make sure they aren't power lines :-)
>> I think that's why they do the tree trimming around
>> here, so home owners don't get too adventurous.
>>
>They do that for power lines - telephone not so much.

The supply company have an access agreement for this purpose. The 11kV
overhead has a remote operated vacuum breaker in one of my meadows. No
apparent reason as there is no offtake within 1/2 mile.
--
Tim Lamb

On 25/11/2023 09:47, Tim Lamb wrote:
> Dropped to 5 meg. overnight! No wind and -2deg. C frost.

You have a line problem. Get the engineers back

--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer