The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
to the top yoke above the master cylinder

A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
to top it up again.

While away, staying with Ace of this parish, I again noticed it was
low. And then, near the end of the trip (before heading to Santander
for the boat home, from St Jean de Luz), it was *again* low. I had no
fluid with me, but improvised by using a teaspoon to take some fluid
from the (much much bigger) brake master cylinder resevoir and putting
it in the clutch fluid resevoir.

By the time I got home, only ~500 miles later, the clutch fluid
resevoir was very nearly empty again.

I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?
All I can think is that it's losing fluid slowly but surely from a
weep on a banjo joint or similar, and its too little to be obviously
visible. But it does seem odd - the clutch system should never have
been disturbed since new

--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 17:40:09 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
<snip>

If it's not leaking then the only thing that I can see to reduce the
reservoir level is increasing the volume of fluid in the master/slave
cylinder/hydraulic pipe, so:

A - Clutch plate wear? (most unlikely to be that visible over a short
distance; I assume we're talking about less than 5000 miles).

B - Clutch hydraulic pipes swelling?

I guess a clutch gets used more often than brakes? I doubt it gets
hotter so it couldn't be fluid boiling off.

C- Leaking past the slave cylinder piston and vaporising at that point...

D- Someone sneaking by your bike and drawing a few mil out from time
to time just to make you think you're losing it?

Of all the explanations I think D has to be the most likely, maybe followed
by B. I doubt I've got the answer though.

Strange.

Champ wrote:
> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
>
> A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
> before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
> to top it up again.
> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?

I've got the same problem with the rear brake on the EXC. No sign of leakage, but I keep having to top it up. I wouldn't bother, except it's handy while lining up, and mandatory for what passes for scrutineering these days. And it's cheaper to keep putting the dregs of old bottles of DOT4 in it than buy any replacement parts.

On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 17:40:09 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
>
> A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
> before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
> to top it up again.
>
> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?
> All I can think is that it's losing fluid slowly but surely from a
> weep on a banjo joint or similar, and its too little to be obviously
> visible. But it does seem odd - the clutch system should never have
> been disturbed since new

My money is on the slave cylinder.
You're not likely to find a smoking gun the clutch fluid is under no great pressure and the volume involved is very small. Wherever it's leaking from it's probably getting dispersed while your riding, leaving little or no trace.

--
Alex

On 27/07/2022 19:48, Alex Ferrier wrote:
> On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 17:40:09 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
>> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
>> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
>>
>> A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
>> before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
>> to top it up again.
>>
>
>> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
>> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?
>> All I can think is that it's losing fluid slowly but surely from a
>> weep on a banjo joint or similar, and its too little to be obviously
>> visible. But it does seem odd - the clutch system should never have
>> been disturbed since new
>
> My money is on the slave cylinder.
> You're not likely to find a smoking gun the clutch fluid is under no great pressure and the volume involved is very small. Wherever it's leaking from it's probably getting dispersed while your riding, leaving little or no trace.
>

+1

Also, first google hit reveals:
https://h2sxriders.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786

--
/Simon

Champ <neal@champ.org.uk> wrote in news:a5q2eh9svajuj24dban5h8k3mck7rhggnd@
4ax.com:

> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
>
> A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
> before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
> to top it up again.
>
> While away, staying with Ace of this parish, I again noticed it was
> low. And then, near the end of the trip (before heading to Santander
> for the boat home, from St Jean de Luz), it was *again* low. I had no
> fluid with me, but improvised by using a teaspoon to take some fluid
> from the (much much bigger) brake master cylinder resevoir and putting
> it in the clutch fluid resevoir.
>
> By the time I got home, only ~500 miles later, the clutch fluid
> resevoir was very nearly empty again.
>
> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?
> All I can think is that it's losing fluid slowly but surely from a
> weep on a banjo joint or similar, and its too little to be obviously
> visible. But it does seem odd - the clutch system should never have
> been disturbed since new
>

your least favourite search engine found

https://h2sxriders.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786

kepping your chain lubed, maybe?

siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:jkdfpaF1lbkU2@mid.individual.net:

> On 27/07/2022 19:48, Alex Ferrier wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 17:40:09 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
>>> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
>>> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
>>>
>>> A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
>>> before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
>>> to top it up again.
>>>
>>
>>> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
>>> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be
>>> going? All I can think is that it's losing fluid slowly but surely
>>> from a weep on a banjo joint or similar, and its too little to be
>>> obviously visible. But it does seem odd - the clutch system should
>>> never have been disturbed since new
>>
>> My money is on the slave cylinder.
>> You're not likely to find a smoking gun the clutch fluid is under no
>> great pressure and the volume involved is very small. Wherever it's
>> leaking from it's probably getting dispersed while your riding,
>> leaving little or no trace.
>>
>
> +1
>
> Also, first google hit reveals:
> https://h2sxriders.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786
>

oops, ginged myself

he's a DDG user, has to outsearch effective internet searches :P

On 27/07/2022 17:40, Champ wrote:
> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
>
> A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
> before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
> to top it up again.

Different bike I know, but the XJR slave cylinders go every 15-16k
miles. What looks like chain lube fluid appears below the case when parked.

Eventually I cannot engage gears (usually the 1st I know of it). Managed
to get to the Cherbourg ferry stuck in 2nd once, (had fluid but no
tool), fixed on t'other side.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 7/27/2022 9:40 AM, Champ wrote:
> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, ...
>
> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?

I know this is going to sound bizarre, but have you heard anything about
Qanon? It is a weirdo sick group in America that puts out stupid
conspiracy theories. Like Democratic politicians, business tycoons and
other power people do drugs and drink babies blood. Well, I think there
may be another myth that's taken hold. Kawasaki Clutch Fluid has a
euphoric effect on masturbation. Yeah, combined with pineapple juice, it
makes you forget having a partner.
Hey, they're Republicans. I can't begin to explain their thought processes.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Wednesday, 27 July 2022 at 17:40:09 UTC+1, Champ wrote:
> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
> to the top yoke above the master cylinder
>
> A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
> before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
> to top it up again.

Snip

The missing clutch fluid in my GasGas was found in the gearbox oil.
I think the Kawasaki thoughtfully drips it onto the front drive sprocket like a poor man's Scottoiler.

On 27/07/2022 17:40, Champ wrote:
>
> I've not checked the slave cylinder

Pretty sure that's your answer right there, as others have pointed out.

Although ... my first Falco had a similar problem, with *no* leak. It
was slowly driving the pushrod right through, until it wore through the
pressure plate and stopped on the casing, then the clutch lever wouldn't
move at all, obviously. This is A Bad Thing.

IIRC, when the chain snapped in France, and ripped off the slave
cylinder, it must've _slightly_ bent the pushrod which was causing it to
wear through the pressure plate. Or something like that.

In summary: you'd best hope that it's a leak.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 16:44:42 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/27/2022 9:40 AM, Champ wrote:
>> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, ...
>>
>> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
>> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?

>I know this is going to sound bizarre, but have you heard anything about
>Qanon? It is a weirdo sick group in America that puts out stupid
>conspiracy theories. Like Democratic politicians, business tycoons and
>other power people do drugs and drink babies blood. Well, I think there
>may be another myth that's taken hold. Kawasaki Clutch Fluid has a
>euphoric effect on masturbation. Yeah, combined with pineapple juice, it
>makes you forget having a partner.
>Hey, they're Republicans. I can't begin to explain their thought processes.

Get help, Thomas, get help - please :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 19:51:22 +0100, siwilson
<siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>Also, first google hit reveals:
>https://h2sxriders.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786

Interesting. Can't quite work out from that if the slave cylinder
needs to be replaced, but probably <glum> more expense
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 28/07/2022 13:58, Champ wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 19:51:22 +0100, siwilson
> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Also, first google hit reveals:
>> https://h2sxriders.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786
>
> Interesting. Can't quite work out from that if the slave cylinder
> needs to be replaced, but probably <glum> more expense

I'd try get a slave cylinder rebuild kit. Or failing that, diassemble,
clean, fresh fluid and see what happens.

--
/Simon

Champ wrote:

> I've not checked the slave cylinder,

That's the leak.

when you take the cover off you'll probably find the lost fluid.

--
Simon

On 7/28/2022 5:54 AM, Champ wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 16:44:42 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/27/2022 9:40 AM, Champ wrote:
>>> The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, ...
>>>
>>> I've not checked the slave cylinder, but there's no sign of anything
>>> on the floor on the side of the bike. Where on earth can it be going?
>
>> I know this is going to sound bizarre, but have you heard anything about
>> Qanon? It is a weirdo sick group in America that puts out stupid
>> conspiracy theories. Like Democratic politicians, business tycoons and
>> other power people do drugs and drink babies blood. Well, I think there
>> may be another myth that's taken hold. Kawasaki Clutch Fluid has a
>> euphoric effect on masturbation. Yeah, combined with pineapple juice, it
>> makes you forget having a partner.
>> Hey, they're Republicans. I can't begin to explain their thought processes.
>
> Get help, Thomas, get help - please :-)

I've been trying. I really have. Everybody seems to think I'm a lost cause.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

Hog wrote:
> Champ wrote:
> > The H2 SX has a hydraulic clutch, with a pretty tiny resevoir bolted
> > to the top yoke above the master cylinder
> >
> > A few months ago I noticed the level was low, so topped it up. Then,
> > before my big-ish Euro jaunt this month, I checked it again, and had
> > to top it up again.
>
> The missing clutch fluid in my GasGas was found in the gearbox oil.

I always assumed that was why KTM used mineral oil for the clutch on the SMT and similar. Guaranteed to leak, but at least vaguely compatible with what it'll end up contaminating.

On Thursday, 28 July 2022 at 16:08:46 UTC+1, ogden wrote:

> I always assumed that was why KTM used mineral oil for the clutch on the SMT and similar. Guaranteed to leak, but at least vaguely compatible with what it'll end up contaminating.

Same with BMW (mineral oil in R1200RT clutch).

I never had problems with the clutch oil leaking in any of the KTMs
I owned. I think I kept one for over five years.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 08:13:03 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, 28 July 2022 at 16:08:46 UTC+1, ogden wrote:
>
>> I always assumed that was why KTM used mineral oil for the clutch on the SMT and similar. Guaranteed to leak, but at least vaguely compatible with what it'll end up contaminating.
>
>Same with BMW (mineral oil in R1200RT clutch).
>
>I never had problems with the clutch oil leaking in any of the KTMs
>I owned. I think I kept one for over five years.

I had a Magura master cylinder seal die on a 200.
--
Mark Roberts

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 22:34:05 +0100, Mark Roberts
<mark@markr.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 08:13:03 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
><stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, 28 July 2022 at 16:08:46 UTC+1, ogden wrote:
>>
>>> I always assumed that was why KTM used mineral oil for the clutch on the SMT and similar. Guaranteed to leak, but at least vaguely compatible with what it'll end up contaminating.
>>
>>Same with BMW (mineral oil in R1200RT clutch).
>>
>>I never had problems with the clutch oil leaking in any of the KTMs
>>I owned. I think I kept one for over five years.
>
>I had a Magura master cylinder seal die on a 200.

Aprilia slave seals were known for it. Think I bought a kit for mine.

--

-Pip

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 14:30:34 +0100, siwilson
<siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:

>>> Also, first google hit reveals:
>>> https://h2sxriders.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786
>> Interesting. Can't quite work out from that if the slave cylinder
>> needs to be replaced, but probably <glum> more expense

>I'd try get a slave cylinder rebuild kit. Or failing that, diassemble,
>clean, fresh fluid and see what happens.

Where's the thumbs-up button..... :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 29/07/2022 15:01, Champ wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 14:30:34 +0100, siwilson
> <siwilson@nodamnspam.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Also, first google hit reveals:
>>>> https://h2sxriders.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=786
>
>>> Interesting. Can't quite work out from that if the slave cylinder
>>> needs to be replaced, but probably <glum> more expense
>
>> I'd try get a slave cylinder rebuild kit. Or failing that, diassemble,
>> clean, fresh fluid and see what happens.
>
> Where's the thumbs-up button..... :-)

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⠀⠀⠘⢿⣿⣦⣤⣴⡿⠻⠿⣷⣦⣤⣤⣤⣴⣾⣿⡿⠿⠿⠿⠟⠛⠉⠀⠀⠀
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--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Thursday, 28 July 2022 at 16:13:05 UTC+1, stephen...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 28 July 2022 at 16:08:46 UTC+1, ogden wrote:
>
> > I always assumed that was why KTM used mineral oil for the clutch on the SMT and similar. Guaranteed to leak, but at least vaguely compatible with what it'll end up contaminating.
> Same with BMW (mineral oil in R1200RT clutch).
>
> I never had problems with the clutch oil leaking in any of the KTMs
> I owned. I think I kept one for over five years.

Many Superduke owners replaced the clutch slave cylinder with an Oberon part. The 3rd party unit is known to leak. It's the master cylinder that's poor quality and difficult to bleed, get pressure from and keep air out of.

I could only get a couple of them working well by pressure bleeding from the bottom up, easy enough when you know how and have the kit, learned from our Gas Gas bikes, as the Magura clutches had the same characteristic (but the green fluid)