I try to keep a spreadsheet to log my utility use, but I often leave
gaps in the filling in of the sheet. Today, I decided to catch up, and
downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements. When I was
entering the data, I noticed that the Previous Balance on the first of
these was not the same as the previous month's Final Balance as logged
on the spreadsheet, and I then saw that I had already earlier downloaded
the statement for that period. But when I compared the two versions, the
more recent one showed a different meter reading from the earlier one. I
then checked, and I had also downloaded the next two statements
earlier, and again, the meter readings did not match. Also, the
readings are to three decimal places, whereas the meter only has one
decimal place. It is not a 'Smartmeter'.
Puzzling.
I have not bothered to see if the readings match what I submitted. On
doing the calculations, the result of the change of readings is in my
favour, so I don't think I will complain to OVO.
--
Davey.

On 21/11/2023 18:05, Davey wrote:
> I try to keep a spreadsheet to log my utility use, but I often leave
> gaps in the filling in of the sheet. Today, I decided to catch up, and
> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements. When I was
> entering the data, I noticed that the Previous Balance on the first of
> these was not the same as the previous month's Final Balance as logged
> on the spreadsheet, and I then saw that I had already earlier downloaded
> the statement for that period. But when I compared the two versions, the
> more recent one showed a different meter reading from the earlier one. I
> then checked, and I had also downloaded the next two statements
> earlier, and again, the meter readings did not match. Also, the
> readings are to three decimal places, whereas the meter only has one
> decimal place. It is not a 'Smartmeter'.
> Puzzling.
> I have not bothered to see if the readings match what I submitted. On
> doing the calculations, the result of the change of readings is in my
> favour, so I don't think I will complain to OVO.

By how much were they different? A very small amount may just be a
difference between the actual reading on the date supplied and the
further estimated amount for the few days to generate the bill plus a
few days worth of standing charges.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 21/11/2023 18:17, alan_m wrote:
> On 21/11/2023 18:05, Davey wrote:
>> I try to keep a spreadsheet to log my utility use, but I often leave
>> gaps in the filling in of the sheet. Today, I decided to catch up, and
>> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements. When I was
>> entering the data, I noticed that the Previous Balance on the first of
>> these was not the same as the previous month's Final Balance as logged
>> on the spreadsheet, and I then saw that I had already earlier downloaded
>> the statement for that period. But when I compared the two versions, the
>> more recent one showed a different meter reading from the earlier one. I
>> then checked, and I had also downloaded the next two statements
>> earlier, and again, the meter readings did not match. Also, the
>> readings are to three decimal places, whereas the meter only has one
>> decimal place. It is not a 'Smartmeter'.
>> Puzzling.
>> I have not bothered to see if the readings match what I submitted. On
>> doing the calculations, the result of the change of readings is in my
>> favour, so I don't think I will complain to OVO.
>
> By how much were they different?  A very small amount may just be a
> difference between the actual reading on the date supplied and the
> further estimated amount for the few days to generate the bill plus a
> few days worth of standing charges.
>
>

Also. when I used to get an estimated bill (from another supplier)
within 3 days they re-issued my bill with the reading I subsequently
gave them. This was prior to getting a smart meter.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 18:17:14 +0000
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 21/11/2023 18:05, Davey wrote:
> > I try to keep a spreadsheet to log my utility use, but I often leave
> > gaps in the filling in of the sheet. Today, I decided to catch up,
> > and downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
> > When I was entering the data, I noticed that the Previous Balance
> > on the first of these was not the same as the previous month's
> > Final Balance as logged on the spreadsheet, and I then saw that I
> > had already earlier downloaded the statement for that period. But
> > when I compared the two versions, the more recent one showed a
> > different meter reading from the earlier one. I then checked, and I
> > had also downloaded the next two statements earlier, and again, the
> > meter readings did not match. Also, the readings are to three
> > decimal places, whereas the meter only has one decimal place. It is
> > not a 'Smartmeter'. Puzzling.
> > I have not bothered to see if the readings match what I submitted.
> > On doing the calculations, the result of the change of readings is
> > in my favour, so I don't think I will complain to OVO.
>
> By how much were they different? A very small amount may just be a
> difference between the actual reading on the date supplied and the
> further estimated amount for the few days to generate the bill plus a
> few days worth of standing charges.
>
>

The Standing Charges are separate, and are not changed. There is no
problem with them.
And I submit a reading each time I am asked to, and a bill is
produced based on those readings on that date, so why generate a bill
supposedly based on that information, and then change it at some later
date?
The numbers are not huge, but they are puzzling. Especially when I am
trying to follow the calculations, and then OVO changes the goal posts.

--
Davey.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 18:21:07 +0000
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On 21/11/2023 18:17, alan_m wrote:
> > On 21/11/2023 18:05, Davey wrote:
> >> I try to keep a spreadsheet to log my utility use, but I often
> >> leave gaps in the filling in of the sheet. Today, I decided to
> >> catch up, and downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity
> >> statements. When I was entering the data, I noticed that the
> >> Previous Balance on the first of these was not the same as the
> >> previous month's Final Balance as logged on the spreadsheet, and I
> >> then saw that I had already earlier downloaded the statement for
> >> that period. But when I compared the two versions, the more recent
> >> one showed a different meter reading from the earlier one. I then
> >> checked, and I had also downloaded the next two statements
> >> earlier, and again, the meter readings did not match. Also, the
> >> readings are to three decimal places, whereas the meter only has
> >> one decimal place. It is not a 'Smartmeter'. Puzzling.
> >> I have not bothered to see if the readings match what I submitted.
> >> On doing the calculations, the result of the change of readings is
> >> in my favour, so I don't think I will complain to OVO.
> >
> > By how much were they different?  A very small amount may just be a
> > difference between the actual reading on the date supplied and the
> > further estimated amount for the few days to generate the bill plus
> > a few days worth of standing charges.
> >
> >
>
> Also. when I used to get an estimated bill (from another supplier)
> within 3 days they re-issued my bill with the reading I subsequently
> gave them. This was prior to getting a smart meter.
>

As I say, I have not compared the readings on the statement with what I
submitted, (I don't know if I have a record OF MY OWN of what I
submitted and when, as opposed to what OVO say I submitted, which may
be different), but there has not been a need for an estimated reading
for many months, I live here.

--
Davey

Davey wrote:

> Today, I decided to catch up, and
> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.

Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to see
what the changes are ...

"We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
set up for you at the moment"

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:38:41 +0000, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>> Today, I decided to catch up, and
>> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
>
>Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
>systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to see
>what the changes are ...
>
> "We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
> set up for you at the moment"

My EDF account number has been changed to an alphanumeric plus
hyphen "number". Giving meter readings was easy; the automated
system required entering the 12 digit account number and 5 digit
reading. If required it could calculate the bill and read it
out.

Trying to find an easy, for me, method of giving them meter
readings I read that they have an app which, according to their
website, requires entering the account number, surname, and
postcode. Of course, as of the 16th November update, it accepts
only digits in the account number field so that's no good. For
the time being I have to call and speak to a human. How quaint.
--
Roger

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:38:41 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Davey wrote:
>
> > Today, I decided to catch up, and
> > downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
>
> Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
> systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to
> see what the changes are ...
>
> "We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
> set up for you at the moment"

Did this get resolved? You probably have an account in France now.

And on a different tack, I today ordered a refund from my OVO account.
It says 'within 10 days', I will watch my bank account closely.

--
Davey.

On 22/11/2023 15:07, Roger wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:38:41 +0000, Andy Burns
> <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>>> Today, I decided to catch up, and
>>> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
>>
>> Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
>> systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to see
>> what the changes are ...
>>
>> "We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
>> set up for you at the moment"
>
> My EDF account number has been changed to an alphanumeric plus
> hyphen "number". Giving meter readings was easy; the automated
> system required entering the 12 digit account number and 5 digit
> reading. If required it could calculate the bill and read it
> out.
>
> Trying to find an easy, for me, method of giving them meter
> readings I read that they have an app which, according to their
> website, requires entering the account number, surname, and
> postcode. Of course, as of the 16th November update, it accepts
> only digits in the account number field so that's no good. For
> the time being I have to call and speak to a human. How quaint.

Why not just continue logging on at
<https://my.edfenergy.com/user/login?destination=myaccount>?

Once the meter readings are entered, within a day they'll email me back
with the bill (or "your energy statement" as they seem to call it)
attached as a pdf.

--

Jeff

On 21/11/2023 18:05, Davey wrote:
> I try to keep a spreadsheet to log my utility use, but I often leave
> gaps in the filling in of the sheet. Today, I decided to catch up, and
> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements. When I was
> entering the data, I noticed that the Previous Balance on the first of
> these was not the same as the previous month's Final Balance as logged
> on the spreadsheet, and I then saw that I had already earlier downloaded
> the statement for that period. But when I compared the two versions, the
> more recent one showed a different meter reading from the earlier one. I
> then checked, and I had also downloaded the next two statements
> earlier, and again, the meter readings did not match. Also, the
> readings are to three decimal places, whereas the meter only has one
> decimal place. It is not a 'Smartmeter'.
> Puzzling.
> I have not bothered to see if the readings match what I submitted. On
> doing the calculations, the result of the change of readings is in my
> favour, so I don't think I will complain to OVO.

My experience with OVO is you can send (via the website or the phone
app) as many meter readings as you like.

However, they have their own monthly billing date they stick to (for
instance the 15th of each month)

If you send a meter reading on the 22nd, within a few hours, or
overnight, they produce a sort of bill, that is based upon the meter
readings from the 15th to the 22nd. If you've not sent any readings on
the 15th, they estimate them, and (as you've noticed) to three decimal
places.

If you then send another reading on the 29th, they produce another bill,
but this is based on the 15th to 29th period, not what you'd intuitively
expect, the 22nd to 29th.

It doesn't really matter. My Water company, South East Water, do exactly
the same thing, I couldn't get my head around it it first, because they
produce a silly bar graph of water use, but always referenced back to
their billing date (which for them is Feb 15th and Aug 15th)

The bottom line is just bombard OVO with readings at every opportunity,
and eventually their algorithm will make the estimates on the billing
dates accurate enough (You'd hope)

Or; get a smart meter, or move to Octopus (or do what I did, which was
both)

Davey wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
>> systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to
>> see what the changes are ...
>>
>> "We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
>> set up for you at the moment"
>
> Did this get resolved? You probably have an account in France now.

It got worse ... now it won't let me login at all, if I try to create a
new account using the new account number (which includes letters and a
hyphen) it insists that it has to be numeric only.

> And on a different tack, I today ordered a refund from my OVO account.
> It says 'within 10 days', I will watch my bank account closely.

Given the prices seem to be going up from January, I held back from
asking for more to be refunded.

On 22/11/2023 12:38, Andy Burns wrote:
> Davey wrote:
>
>> Today, I decided to catch up, and
>> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
>
> Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
> systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to see
> what the changes are ...
>
>     "We'd love you to come back.  We don't have an account
>     set up for you at the moment"

My neighbour, the ex mot tester had his own garage business
from 1992 onwards. EDF cocked up the details of the new
owner and never sent him a bill for 10 years, then tried to
bill for the missing 10 years. He told them where to go, because
they had not sent him an invoice or bill. They backed down. :-)

On 22/11/2023 16:11, Davey wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:38:41 +0000
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
>> Davey wrote:
>>
>>> Today, I decided to catch up, and
>>> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
>>
>> Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
>> systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to
>> see what the changes are ...
>>
>> "We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
>> set up for you at the moment"
>
> Did this get resolved? You probably have an account in France now.
>
> And on a different tack, I today ordered a refund from my OVO account.
> It says 'within 10 days', I will watch my bank account closely.
>

If the person dealing with it is a job sharer and working
from home 1 day a week, then could mean 10 weeks.

Davey wrote:

> Did this get resolved?

It seems as though they're handling their own systems upgrade as though
I'm leaving EDF and re-joining EDF

"Coming up

Your final bill (for 05 September 2023 - 20 November 2023)

We'll send your final bill as soon as we get your closing meter
reading(s) from your new supplier."

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 21:18:35 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> Davey wrote:
>
> > Did this get resolved?
>
> It seems as though they're handling their own systems upgrade as
> though I'm leaving EDF and re-joining EDF
>
> "Coming up
>
> Your final bill (for 05 September 2023 - 20 November 2023)
>
> We'll send your final bill as soon as we get your closing meter
> reading(s) from your new supplier."
>
>

I thought AI was going to make all this easy. Didn't Elon say that soon
all manual work would be eliminated? That only means that you will ever
be able to talk to a real live human when all else fails.

--
Davey.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 16:48:35 +0000
Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:

> On 21/11/2023 18:05, Davey wrote:
> > I try to keep a spreadsheet to log my utility use, but I often leave
> > gaps in the filling in of the sheet. Today, I decided to catch up,
> > and downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
> > When I was entering the data, I noticed that the Previous Balance
> > on the first of these was not the same as the previous month's
> > Final Balance as logged on the spreadsheet, and I then saw that I
> > had already earlier downloaded the statement for that period. But
> > when I compared the two versions, the more recent one showed a
> > different meter reading from the earlier one. I then checked, and I
> > had also downloaded the next two statements earlier, and again, the
> > meter readings did not match. Also, the readings are to three
> > decimal places, whereas the meter only has one decimal place. It is
> > not a 'Smartmeter'. Puzzling.
> > I have not bothered to see if the readings match what I submitted.
> > On doing the calculations, the result of the change of readings is
> > in my favour, so I don't think I will complain to OVO.
>
> My experience with OVO is you can send (via the website or the phone
> app) as many meter readings as you like.
>
> However, they have their own monthly billing date they stick to (for
> instance the 15th of each month)
>
> If you send a meter reading on the 22nd, within a few hours, or
> overnight, they produce a sort of bill, that is based upon the meter
> readings from the 15th to the 22nd. If you've not sent any readings
> on the 15th, they estimate them, and (as you've noticed) to three
> decimal places.
>
> If you then send another reading on the 29th, they produce another
> bill, but this is based on the 15th to 29th period, not what you'd
> intuitively expect, the 22nd to 29th.
>
> It doesn't really matter. My Water company, South East Water, do
> exactly the same thing, I couldn't get my head around it it first,
> because they produce a silly bar graph of water use, but always
> referenced back to their billing date (which for them is Feb 15th and
> Aug 15th)
>
> The bottom line is just bombard OVO with readings at every
> opportunity, and eventually their algorithm will make the estimates
> on the billing dates accurate enough (You'd hope)
>
> Or; get a smart meter, or move to Octopus (or do what I did, which
> was both)

OVO insist on making my billing date the 15/16th of the month, but
they always change the rates on the 1st. So almost every bill has two
different rates of usage and standing charge. It is at least
followable, unlike the BT bills that finally drove me away from them,
which seemed like a version of the three-card trick. They were
impossible to unravel.

I fit was costing me money, I would delve deeper, but as far as I can
see, it is if anything to my advantage.

I resist a 'smartmeter' on the basis that I don't want to be forced to
do something that is going to do nothing for me that I can't do already,
by logging my readings daily. The reports of operational failures alone
are horrifying, thank goodness we don't rely on the technology for
national security.

--
Davey.

On 22/11/2023 23:26, Davey wrote:

> I resist a 'smartmeter' on the basis that I don't want to be forced to
> do something that is going to do nothing for me that I can't do already,
> by logging my readings daily. The reports of operational failures alone
> are horrifying, thank goodness we don't rely on the technology for
> national security.

99.99+% of people don't read their meter daily and the stories about
erroneous billing were around long before the first smart meter was
installed.
Friends of mine had a (traditional) meter replaced with another
(traditional) meter and the utility company didn't register the meter
change. They assumed that the old meter had reached the maximum value
and rolled over to zero again. The result was a huge bill which took
many months and intervention from the ombudsman to sort out.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 22/11/2023 23:26, Davey wrote:
>
>> I resist a 'smartmeter' on the basis that I don't want to be forced to
>> do something that is going to do nothing for me that I can't do already,
>> by logging my readings daily. The reports of operational failures alone
>> are horrifying, thank goodness we don't rely on the technology for
>> national security.
>
> 99.99+% of people don't read their meter daily and the stories about
> erroneous billing were around long before the first smart meter was
> installed.
> Friends of mine had a (traditional) meter replaced with another
> (traditional) meter and the utility company didn't register the meter
> change. They assumed that the old meter had reached the maximum value
> and rolled over to zero again. The result was a huge bill which took
> many months and intervention from the ombudsman to sort out.

Something similar happened to me, when the meter reader interchanged the
day and night readings from the E7 meter, and I got a bill for the huge
amount (in those days) of £5000+. It took two years to resolve and it was
only because of the dedicated work of a young lady called Michelle, who had
to spend a full afternoon in ‘the basement’ working up the real bills by
hand, because in the interim the computer systems had changed.

Up to that point no amount of pointing out that we used 4000 units a year
for decades, and there was nothing we could have done to use the amount of
electricity they were billing for, would persuade them otherwise.

I’ve no idea why Michelle took on the job, but I was extremely grateful she
did so.

--
Spike

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 16:32:52 +0000, Jeff Layman
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 22/11/2023 15:07, Roger wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:38:41 +0000, Andy Burns
>> <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> Today, I decided to catch up, and
>>>> downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
>>> systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to see
>>> what the changes are ...
>>>
>>> "We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
>>> set up for you at the moment"
>>
>> My EDF account number has been changed to an alphanumeric plus
>> hyphen "number". Giving meter readings was easy; the automated
>> system required entering the 12 digit account number and 5 digit
>> reading. If required it could calculate the bill and read it
>> out.
>>
>> Trying to find an easy, for me, method of giving them meter
>> readings I read that they have an app which, according to their
>> website, requires entering the account number, surname, and
>> postcode. Of course, as of the 16th November update, it accepts
>> only digits in the account number field so that's no good. For
>> the time being I have to call and speak to a human. How quaint.
>
>Why not just continue logging on at
><https://my.edfenergy.com/user/login?destination=myaccount>?

Because it doesn't suit me.

>Once the meter readings are entered, within a day they'll email me back
>with the bill (or "your energy statement" as they seem to call it)
>attached as a pdf.

No, thank you, that is not what I want.
--
Roger

On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 16:11:26 +0000
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 12:38:41 +0000
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>
> > Davey wrote:
> >
> > > Today, I decided to catch up, and
> > > downloaded the last three monthly OVO electricity statements.
> >
> > Meanwhile I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
> > systems and I now have a different account number, so I logged on to
> > see what the changes are ...
> >
> > "We'd love you to come back. We don't have an account
> > set up for you at the moment"
>
> Did this get resolved? You probably have an account in France now.
>
> And on a different tack, I today ordered a refund from my OVO account.
> It says 'within 10 days', I will watch my bank account closely.
>

Amazingly, my refund appeared in my bank account a few days after I
applied for it, certainly in less than 10 days.

--
Davey

Davey wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
>> systems and I now have a different account number
>
> Did this get resolved? You probably have an account in France now.

They appear to have realised that the Kraken migration hasn't been plain
sailing ...

"Oops, something isn’t right. Have we told you
‘We’re making some changes’ in a letter or email?
Please call 03330 069 950 if you can't get into MyAccount."

phoned them and they sent me link to set a new password, that failed,
they sent another link, that also failed, so now apparently I need to
wait until the morning.

Their parting words were "it's not a problem", my parting words were "it
is a problem" ...

On 28/11/2023 17:20, Andy Burns wrote:
> Davey wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> I received a letter from EDF saying they've updated their
>>> systems and I now have a different account number
>>
>> Did this get resolved? You probably have an account in France now.
>
> They appear to have realised that the Kraken migration hasn't been plain
> sailing ...
>
>     "Oops, something isn’t right.  Have we told you
>     ‘We’re making some changes’ in a letter or email?
>     Please call 03330 069 950 if you can't get into MyAccount."
>
> phoned them and they sent me link to set a new password, that failed,
> they sent another link, that also failed, so now apparently I need to
> wait until the morning.
>
> Their parting words were "it's not a problem", my parting words were "it
> is a problem" ...
>

BG's new IT system last year locked me out for 6 months so I couldn't
change things (eg the frequency of smart meter readings which their
licence requires them to allow). They also managed to carry across the
wrong readings from their old system. And then the wrong readings from
one bill to the next.

Agile systems development of course.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid