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aus+uk / uk.comp.homebuilt / Re: Windows backup question

SubjectAuthor
* Windows backup questionRobH
+* Re: Windows backup questionTheo
|`- Re: Windows backup questionRobH
`- Re: Windows backup questionPhilip Herlihy

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Windows backup question

<ijpcb3F196oU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rob...@despammer.com (RobH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Windows backup question
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 20:09:23 +0100
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 by: RobH - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:09 UTC

I do voluntary IT tuition to older people at a local centre.
They have a number of laptops with win10 on them but no disc to
reinstall, if needed. Apparently the laptops were bought 2nd hand with
no recovery disk.

One person suggested backing up the whole system to another drive so it
all can be reinstalled if required. The problem is that the said laptops
get loaned out , and a user error caused one of them to crash during a
windows update.

Any suggestions on what would be the best option.

I know you can't avoid user error, so I thought about changing the
permissions on the system files to read only???
Is that feasable

Thanks

Re: Windows backup question

<uXB*nrEny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Windows backup question
Date: 26 Jun 2021 21:42:28 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 20:42 UTC

RobH <rob@despammer.com> wrote:
> I do voluntary IT tuition to older people at a local centre.
> They have a number of laptops with win10 on them but no disc to
> reinstall, if needed. Apparently the laptops were bought 2nd hand with
> no recovery disk.

Most laptops don't have optical drives any more, so a recovery disc wouldn't
be much help. You can typically download a recovery USB image from the
manufacturer's web site.

> One person suggested backing up the whole system to another drive so it
> all can be reinstalled if required. The problem is that the said laptops
> get loaned out , and a user error caused one of them to crash during a
> windows update.
>
> Any suggestions on what would be the best option.
>
> I know you can't avoid user error, so I thought about changing the
> permissions on the system files to read only???
> Is that feasable

Making the system files read only would cause the updates to fail, surely?
That is, if the system pays any attention to permissions when doing updates,
which it may not.

Some machines have a recovery partition that can be booted into to restore.
Alternatively it's easy to download images from Microsoft and install,
which should download the necessary drivers. That doesn't bring all the
vendor shovelware, but you probably don't want that anyway.

If you mean about backing up apps and user files, there are various backup
solutions - I haven't tried any to recommend them.

Theo

Re: Windows backup question

<ijpna8F39dpU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: rob...@despammer.com (RobH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Windows backup question
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:16:40 +0100
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 by: RobH - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:16 UTC

On 26/06/2021 21:42, Theo wrote:
> RobH <rob@despammer.com> wrote:
>> I do voluntary IT tuition to older people at a local centre.
>> They have a number of laptops with win10 on them but no disc to
>> reinstall, if needed. Apparently the laptops were bought 2nd hand with
>> no recovery disk.
>
> Most laptops don't have optical drives any more, so a recovery disc wouldn't
> be much help. You can typically download a recovery USB image from the
> manufacturer's web site.
>
>> One person suggested backing up the whole system to another drive so it
>> all can be reinstalled if required. The problem is that the said laptops
>> get loaned out , and a user error caused one of them to crash during a
>> windows update.
>>
>> Any suggestions on what would be the best option.
>>
>> I know you can't avoid user error, so I thought about changing the
>> permissions on the system files to read only???
>> Is that feasable
>
> Making the system files read only would cause the updates to fail, surely?
> That is, if the system pays any attention to permissions when doing updates,
> which it may not.
>
> Some machines have a recovery partition that can be booted into to restore.
> Alternatively it's easy to download images from Microsoft and install,
> which should download the necessary drivers. That doesn't bring all the
> vendor shovelware, but you probably don't want that anyway.
>
> If you mean about backing up apps and user files, there are various backup
> solutions - I haven't tried any to recommend them.
>
> Theo
>

Thanks for that, and something to go with.

Re: Windows backup question

<MPG.3b4279ce3e5c580c98994f@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: thiswill...@you.com (Philip Herlihy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Windows backup question
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:05:07 +0100
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 by: Philip Herlihy - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:05 UTC

In article <ijpcb3F196oU1@mid.individual.net>, rob@despammer.com says...
>
> I do voluntary IT tuition to older people at a local centre.
> They have a number of laptops with win10 on them but no disc to
> reinstall, if needed. Apparently the laptops were bought 2nd hand with
> no recovery disk.
>
> One person suggested backing up the whole system to another drive so it
> all can be reinstalled if required. The problem is that the said laptops
> get loaned out , and a user error caused one of them to crash during a
> windows update.
>
> Any suggestions on what would be the best option.
>
> I know you can't avoid user error, so I thought about changing the
> permissions on the system files to read only???
> Is that feasable
>
> Thanks

Start with a careful inventory of what's on the machines that you might want to
preserve. For a set of machines "issued" to a sequence of people for tuition
(or loan) there may be nothing at all beyond the basic operating system, and
that can be reinstalled easily enough. Download the Media Creation Tool:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10
... onto an 8GB or bigger USB stick, and with an internet connection you can re-
install a fresh copy of W10 any time you want. It will activate using MS's
database of previously activated hardware. I've often commented that using a
"second hand" machine is like buying a second hand washing machine which comes
complete with the previous owner's dirty laundry. On a working W10 machine you
can also "Refresh", "Reset" or "Restore" the machine:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/how-to-refresh-reset-or-restore-
your-pc-51391d9a-eb0a-84a7-69e4-c2c1fbceb8dd

But what else might you want to preserve? Could be to avoid the hassle of
installing applications from CD again, or settings, or user accounts, or user
data.

User data is best backed up often and separately, as you wouldn't want all the
other stuff with it every time you want a new backup. File History works very
well indeed, and can work over a network to a machine with a big disk, or to a
USB drive plugged in occasionally (it'll catch up). Very easy to restore
files, too.

But if you want to keep a snapshot of a machine at a particular time, including
the OS and all applications and settings, then that calls for a "system image".
There's a basic facility built-in to W10 (a legacy, deprecated, from W7) but it
doesn't always work very well. I use Acronis True Image, which does work well
(and which has recovered W7 images which W7 itself couldn't!). You could store
an image of each machine on a large drive, and restore at will. Of course,
unless you work hard to keep those images up to date you'll find you have
images which need loads of updates to get current again. True Image can be set
to back up on a schedule. Macrium Reflect is another imaging product, with a
free version available.

Of course, the ideal for a teaching scenario is a "Terminal Server", where the
users connect to desktops actually located on a central server, which is
configured and re-configured as desired. But that'll be outside the scope of
your charity!

Hope that's useful!
--

Phil, London

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